Originally Posted by Apple ][
I've been to Oslo before. It's one of my least favorite cities. It's poorly laid out, hard to find your way around and extremely expensive, though it reminds me of a third world city, with many third world people wandering around and plenty of beggars. Having said that, the rest of Norway is nice, with the fjords and all, I just stay away from Oslo.
They're also hypocrites, because I know that many of them were in support of Snowden leaking US secrets, but I guess when it comes to their own secrets, then their tune suddenly changes.
Oslo isn't "pooly laid out", it's organically grown, like most cities in countries that have a real history and didn't either have a dictator or a natural disaster that razed the city to start out from scratch to build cities for the orientation challenged people of today and motor traffic. You'll find similar irregular layouts in just about any historic city in Europe. Some places the geography results in easier to navigate places, sometimes in more difficult to navigate places, but this isn't a matter of city planning and "laying out a city", it's a matter of dealing with a historically grown structure.
Besides, if Oslo reminds of a third world city, I wonder what third world countries you have visited; besides, what are "third world people"? Anyone who doesn't have his Arian certificate stapled to his chest, or what?
If a country is full of third world cities, then it's the US that didn't use top unemployment and record low interest rates to fix an infrastructure that's crumbling everywhere, and will make it ever more difficult for the US to be a competitive industrialized nation. A few years from now, UPS and FedEx will probably need to buy tanks, just so they can deliver packages over dilapidated inner city streets without getting stuck in man-sized potholes.
As for the Snowden case: this has really nothing to do with it. Most people who are outraged by what Snowden revealed (and what smart people guessed was happening being aware of the Patriot Act) have no problem with governments collecting intelligence and protecting critical assets. What most people have trouble with is the blanket surveillance of just about everyone, and the break-down of the firewall between police and intelligence communities, since measures that may be potentially be justifiable to prevent another 911 style attack certainly are not appropriate to use to catch a few drug dealers, tax dodgers, or other types of criminals; lest we want to live in a Minority Report style society where you get arrested for just having thoughts or the genetic make-up of a potential criminal.