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Larry Ellison sees dismal future for Apple without Steve Jobs

post #1 of 192
Thread Starter 
In an interview with Charlie Rose set to air on Tuesday, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison gave a bleak outlook when asked how Apple will fare without his close friend Steve Jobs at the reins.

Larry Ellison
Source: CBS


A short snippet of the "This Morning" segment was released on Monday by CBS, showing Ellison alluding to an anticipated dark time for the Cupertino, Calif., company.

Rose asked the tech mogul to share his thoughts on what Apple will become without Jobs. Ellison said "we already know."

"We saw ? we conducted the experiment," Ellison explained. "I mean, it's been done. We saw Apple with Steve Jobs. We saw Apple without Steve Jobs. We saw Apple with Steve Jobs. Now, we're gonna see Apple without Steve Jobs."

Each time Ellison described Apple with Jobs, he gestured up with his hand; without Jobs, a trough. While not specifically stated, Ellison is most likely referring to Apple's founding in 1976, Jobs' ousting by John Sculley in 1985, and the visionary's return in 1997.

When Rose asked what enabled Jobs, besides his love of and dedication to Apple, to make the company successful, Ellison said, "He was, he was brilliant. I mean, he was our Edison. He was our Picasso. He was an incredible inventor."
post #2 of 192
FU Larry. Never could stand the guy. Really hate his guts now. And just what exactly did Steve INVENT Larry? 1rolleyes.gif
post #3 of 192

Nice words about Steve but as for the rest of the drivel - "You're wrong, Doofus !"

post #4 of 192
Just because Jobs is no longer with us, he did instill spirit and character. People who worked closely with him know he would operate. Not that Jobs wanted that but, the DNA has been embedded into the longevity of the company.
post #5 of 192

How's those cup races going Larry??  

post #6 of 192
I'm sure Jobs is looking down from heaven and shaking his head in dis-belief as his "friend" throws everything he held dear into the toilet without giving the team he personally handpicked and put in place a chance to succeed

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post #7 of 192

I'm not sure that "incredible inventor" is the best way to describe Steve Jobs.

 

Though nobody at Apple is as "visionary" as Steve....but there's also such thing as too much vision...as it often blinds oneself from adapting and from seeing other people's points of views.  Steve's double-edged sword.

 

Tim's good, but not the visionary Steve was...are there others at Apple that can see products and consumer experiences before they happen (Steve-like)?

post #8 of 192
Hey Larry, still upset Apple didn't release dumb terminals for Oracle?

Different times.
post #9 of 192
Being ousted for being who you are abruptly, and knowing your end is near and setting the company up to succeed without you are two different things.

Plus, Larry, you know who else already saw what Apple is like without Steve? Their current leadership.
post #10 of 192
Well... I think that as long as Jony stays in the team there is hope. However, that truth only goes so far. Everyone knows that Apple will never be the same without Steve. He could get away with things no one else could, ever. Jony will only be able to push so far. And my fear is that Jony won't be allowed to go as far ("innovate") without Steve there to back him up. If that were to happen Jony could become frustrated and end up eventually leaving Apple. Then Apple would truly be going down hill... but, I could be totally wrong --and that would be a great thing!

We also have to remember that many things (yet to be revealed) were still being worked on while Steve was with Apple. I'm sure he must have also left a number of "requests" for protects to be accomplished after his death. Steve must have left a wealth of knowledge regarding things Apple needs to target and accomplish in the future in order to continue its success for the next decade. But I do fear that Apple will eventually be in a different (meaning not as good) position as it is right now without Steve's vision. But I could be wrong again. Only time will tell.
Edited by eckergus - 8/12/13 at 7:01pm
post #11 of 192
Okay so Jobs brought us the new age of tablets and touch screen smartphones and nice UX design.

What has Tim Cook done? iPad mini is still a tablet by the way, so it still falls under Jobs.
post #12 of 192
Well, Jobs' second run with Apple was certainly fantastic, but his first run was a mixed bag, leading to his firing (can anyone imagine Jobs being fired the second time around?).

And NeXT didn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Before it found a small niche for itself, it burned through a lot of cash, employees and grand promises.

I believe Apple can thrive without Jobs, but it does feel like it's getting slower at turning around new products, and trying new things. Maybe the management team, sans Jobs, just needs time to adjust. Maybe it needs new leadership beyond Cook. I think it's too early to tell...
post #13 of 192

What a dick! All stevo wanted to do was leave a great company as his legacy. Ugh! :)

post #14 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

I'm sure Jobs is looking down from heaven and shaking his head in dis-belief as his "friend" throws everything he held dear into the toilet without giving the team he personally handpicked and put in place a chance to succeed

Fool

Well said. Better than what I said above.

post #15 of 192

Originally Posted by k2director View Post

Well, Jobs' second run with Apple was certainly fantastic, but his first run was a mixed bag, leading to his firing (can anyone imagine Jobs being fired the second time around?).

And NeXT didn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Before it found a small niche for itself, it burned through a lot of cash, employees and grand promises.

I believe Apple can thrive without Jobs, but it does feel like it's getting slower at turning around new products, and trying new things. Maybe the management team, sans Jobs, just needs time to adjust. Maybe it needs new leadership beyond Cook. I think it's too early to tell...




Well, this management team have gone through an absolute shitty period trying to sort out ways to insulate/reduce the reliance of the company on Sammy.

 

No wonder some products have been slow to come out.

jus my 0.02c

post #16 of 192

In using what happened previously when Jobs left Apple to predict what will happen this time, he either demonstrates very poor critical thinking skills or he has an agenda. It simply doesn't follow, and, more specifically, Jobs was ousted the first time because Sculley didn't like his vision for Apple whereas this time his vision continues to drive the company. Not a good comparison at all.


Edited by muppetry - 8/12/13 at 7:12pm
post #17 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Okay so Jobs brought us the new age of tablets and touch screen smartphones and nice UX design.

What has Tim Cook done? iPad mini is still a tablet by the way, so it still falls under Jobs.
Steve Jobs did all of that in 2 years?
post #18 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Okay so Jobs brought us the new age of tablets and touch screen smartphones and nice UX design.

What has Tim Cook done? iPad mini is still a tablet by the way, so it still falls under Jobs.

 

I don't believe Tim Cook to be there to continue innovating at Apple. There are plenty of very smart people working at Apple to do this. I think its his job to make sure the correct things go out to the public and make it right the first time, not after 3 or 4 tries. By then, its too late most of the time. While Steve Jobs was great at what he did, he didn't do everything at Apple like some people like to think. Its not like he thought of absolutely everything Apple did. Give Apple as a company some credit here. 

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post #19 of 192
Good God, Larry.

GE has fared pretty well without Edison.

Ford has done OK without, well, Ford.

Apple will be just fine without Steve.

How will Oracle be without you?

This man has no sense of legacy.

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post #20 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Steve Jobs did all of that in 2 years?

Don't you realize Jobs innovated and created new markets six days a week for 15 years.
post #21 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

In using what happened previously when Jobs left Apple to predict what will happen this time, he either demonstrates very poor critical thinking skills or he has an agenda. It simply doesn't follow, and, more specifically, Jobs was ousted the first time because Sculley didn't like his vision for Apple whereas this time the his vision continues to drive the company. Not a good comparison at all.
Could Larry be the one behind the recent rumors that Apple's board is unhappy with Cook? Hmm...
post #22 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Don't you realize Jobs innovated and created new markets six days a week for 15 years.
Yeah and he just dreamed up the iMac one night which just happened to look exactly like what Apple was already prototyping in its design lab.
post #23 of 192
The first iteration of the "Jobless Apple", the one with Sculley at the helm, was a very different company than the current "Jobless Apple". First of all, most of Apple's currently functional culture developed since Jobs' return in the late 90s. Having Ive at the design helm is another major difference.

Apple is so not the same company as the one previous. Jobs and Apple both matured, grew, developed and more clearly defined what Apple is.

It is no longer the Apple Computer that Jobs left. It is instead the Apple, Inc. that Jobs left, stronger than he left it.

Ellison is welcome to his opinion. But his reasons for that opinion is completely misguided. Apple without Jobs is not stronger (yet), but it isn't really noticeably weaker.

That's Jobs' real legacy at work. That the culture he created lives on strong as ever.

Just my own opinion, but, there it is...
post #24 of 192

I think Larry must have been out back toot'n it up with the analysts when he gave this err, opinion.

post #25 of 192
ALL:

Everything in life and the universe changes and we mere mortals die, yet life and companies go on and often for the better. Like George Carlin used to joke, "everyone loves you more when you are dead". If Steve were alive today, he would be the media whipping boy the same as he was when he was alive, so let's stop all the dead idol worshiping, it serves no useful purpose. When Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Howard Hughes, etc all died, everyone said their businesses were done. Not true. In fact, these firms do better after the founder has passed on and many more talented people take the place of the solitary visionary. I too liked Steve, but he is gone, but he has left his inspiration behind for others to emulate.
post #26 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Just because Jobs is no longer with us, he did instill spirit and character. People who worked closely with him know he would operate. Not that Jobs wanted that but, the DNA has been embedded into the longevity of the company.

 

So true, Feynman. However, Steve was not infallible and he listened and often, after rejecting an idea, would come back to it with a better understanding. He was a thinker, an outside the box thinker. I hope and believe that Steve Jobs' greatest accomplishment will be an Apple that continues well into the future for the the path he lead others to travel did not end with him.

 

He wasn't like many heads who have a wish, whether they recognise their folly or not, but a death wish that the company they created cannot prosper without their leadership. Steve was not such a man. Rough he may have been at times in business and at work, but that is the nature of action in the beast called Commerce. But what he believed in his heart he set his mind to make the best, and that kind of mind drives one to perpetuate the legacy after one  has 'shuffled off this mortal coil'. But in this case it is not his own death that would utmost worry his thoughts but the death of the company he had borne and bled over. Such a man was Steve that he strove to make certain his phoenix would rise from his ashes and from lessons shared with the thinkers he collected round him, the company would rise younger and stronger than before.

 

Larry Ellison is a common man of many talents and though his thinking may be admirable, it is yet common for his kind. He certainly is not a Steve Jobs and fails to see the future of this great company as Steve did and who assuredly worked to  secure its future in the minds and skills of those who saw, shared, understood and have come to love his dream.

 

I had to do and paste spellcheck from outside AI so apologies if the font size explodes in size again.

 

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post #27 of 192
I wonder what apple does without Steve jobs there?
post #28 of 192

It's official, Apple is doomed.

 

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post #29 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by k2director View Post

Well, Jobs' second run with Apple was certainly fantastic, but his first run was a mixed bag, leading to his firing (can anyone imagine Jobs being fired the second time around?).

And NeXT didn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Before it found a small niche for itself, it burned through a lot of cash, employees and grand promises.

I believe Apple can thrive without Jobs, but it does feel like it's getting slower at turning around new products, and trying new things. Maybe the management team, sans Jobs, just needs time to adjust. Maybe it needs new leadership beyond Cook. I think it's too early to tell...


NeXT did set the world on fire. Where shall we start?
e.g. with the fact that all Mac and iOS devices are running NeXTstep and NeXT APIs and are programmed with NeXT tools (sure iterative improvements, sometimes good things nuked, etc.)
e.g. java being a direct result of the OO frenzy and panic all the other companies had after they saw what NeXT can do (while bad mouthing NeXT at the same time and still getting it wrong be betting on junk like C++)?
e.g. the Win95/windows classic UI visuals (but not the intuitive feel) directly lifted from NeXTstep?
e.g. the WWW being invented on a NeXT with TBL explicitly stating that w/o NeXTstep he would never have attempted that project because with regular tools it would have been too complex for his taste?
e.g. DSP capabilities standard on board? Today all mainstream CPUs have DSP/vector processing instruction set extensions.
etc. etc.

A device or software platform doesn't have to be a money maker to be disruptive.
NeXT failed due to the user-software chicken-egg problem, thus didn't have enough critical mass.
The same stuff, half castrated and less consistent with the same guy at the helm is a runaway success today simply because people were naive enough to fall for the Mac OS moniker when in fact what they are getting is NeXTstep with various levels of legacy Mac compatibility.
What people think of as Apple's modern software for the most part is 25 yo software somewhat updated and optimized for better hardware, and that NeXT stuff was based on concepts more than 10 years old before NeXT picked them up.
So really, what Apple does is deliver the ideas and concepts from about 35-40 years ago, made consumer friendly by modern hardware.

Difficult to make statements about a history one doesn't know...
post #30 of 192
Correlation does not equal causation, Larry.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #31 of 192
Once again, I'm post number 31. WTF???

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #32 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Once again, I'm post number 31. WTF???

 

Is that bad?

post #33 of 192
Apple with Steve Jobs produced the Apple III, the Lisa, & the 128k Mac the first time around...

The 20th Anniversary Mac & G4 Cube after he came back...
post #34 of 192
ellison says that about steve and apple because his own ego believes that oracle would be lost without him. i think it's called projection. arrogant bastard.
post #35 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Once again, I'm post number 31. WTF???

Blame it on IGZO

post #36 of 192

I know Larry and Steve were friends but does he now know more than we all can see? If not, he has nothing to base his opinion on.

 

 

 

I'd really like to get mdriftmeyer's take on Larry's comment...

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post #37 of 192
Larry Ellison is going to get his butt kicked by Team New Zealand in the America's Cup.

There will be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough... awww who I am kidding, there will always be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough. :-)
post #38 of 192
Its just not that simple. The first time Steve Jobs left apple, he was forced out of a company that didn't agree with his vision. this time he left a company that completely valued his vision and his ideas. This company, unlike before, wants to continue his legacy and continue to grow what Steve started. For that and many other reasons i don't think its that simple to just say that apple will fell without Steve Jobs. He inspired a lot of people at that company and that alone should give people hope.
post #39 of 192

In contrast, Oracle could only get better with Ellison gone.  Their product quality is absolutely terrible.   
 

post #40 of 192
We saw Apple toss out Steve Jobs and go down the crapper. We are now seeing Steve Jobs create an infrastructure of culture reflecting his ideals for Apple that took 13 years to build before he passed on.

The talent at Apple from vision to raw technical merit dwarfs anything Larry ever experienced at Oracle or prior to Oracle working for a company developing film for NASA. The culture permanent.

Steve made sure of it.
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