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Piper Jaffray: 'iPhone 5C' may not include Siri, could replace iPhone 4S at bottom of lineup - Page 2

post #41 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple is losing me here.
*Apple* is losing you here? Apple hasn't yet shown its hand. Do you mean Munster is losing you? Does anyone believe the predictions of analysts? If so, why?
post #42 of 107

ANALyst. Nuff said.

post #43 of 107
No way in fucking hell this is true. One of the goals of Siri for Apple is to reduce Google searches. Not including Siri would do nothing shoot themselves in the foot, as more people would use Google Now, etc. Siri is one of Apple's important software tentpoles for the future (regardless of your personal thoughts on it), and there will never be another iOS device without it.
post #44 of 107
Good ol' Gene. I'll gladly eat crow if the iPhone 5C doesn't have Siri. How often is he right on these things? I'm still not clear on how Siri has anything to do with cost. Is the processor going to be an A4?! I don't think so. Also, is it really a prediction anymore that the 5C will have a plastic shell? I mean we've all seen the photos! That's an observation in my book.
post #45 of 107

No matter which internals this new purported 5C will get, it will be usable, meaning that it'll run iOS7 and it'll run it such that apps load quickly and there isn't any major and/or noticeable lag. To launch a new product that appears slow would be so un-Apple, and such bad business, it will never happen. The 5S might be faster, but using the 5C will not appear to users to be slow.

 

So, we then have essentially two phones that are the same, except materials, and if you want a more fragile case, fewer colour options and that Siri feature, you can spend $300 more (or whatever the price difference ends up being) and get the 5S. Or if you're the kind of person who doesn't give a rat's arse about Siri or the materials of the phone and you want a nice looking, very usable iPhone, you'll forgo the Siri functionality, save yourself about $300 and get the 5C. Doesn't that sound reasonable? The reason I ask is that Apple will have figured this out and would realise the potential complete cannibalisation of the 5S.

 

Siri turned off, is that all they can come up with? And if it's not turned off, then you've got two phones with the exact same functionality for different prices - which one will the average consumer purchase? Isn't it reasonable to assume that Apple realises that and has something completely different in store with this new phone??

post #46 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple is losing me here.

 

Why having a crippled iPhone 5S as a 5C? As if Siri and finger sensors are a deal breaker to me?

 

Why not just having a 3,5" screen for the 5C? 3,5" is a cute size and a REAL differentiator. Some value screen estate, others value portability. Having said that, I wouldn't make the screen bigger than 4".

 

And why not calling the 5C, the iPhone mini? Like iPad and iPad mini. Mac and Mac mini? And hopefully soon, iPod (= Touch with 4" screen) and iPod mini (= Touch with 3,5" screen).

Apple is losing you from an article about a phone that doesn't exist yet?

 

Troll.

post #47 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMarc43 View Post

Apple is losing you from an article about a phone that doesn't exist yet?

Troll.

I may be wrong, but I think that was a figure of speech as in 'losing me' meaning, 'I don't get this ...'.
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post #48 of 107
I think apple insider pressed him to make a statement and he just threw this stuff out there so he wouldnt be without anything to say.
post #49 of 107
You would think apple was cutting Social Security the way you guys talk about 5C cutting off Siri.
post #50 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

You would think apple was cutting Social Security the way you guys talk about 5C cutting off Siri.

It's just folks talking on a rumors forum, lighten up 1smile.gif far better than the crap and hate that gets spewed on most blogs under real news!
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post #51 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryd View Post

Does anyone outside of the US ever use Siri? I have never used it, the mere idea of talking to an inanimate object seems silly to me. A good example of technology that most of the users never use, and as such a perfect candidate for removing if it means a cheaper phone. In a car I can see the use for it though.

 

Exactly ! 

post #52 of 107

He could be right and here is why.

 

Siri is not very useful in British English. And therefore I suspect even more useless outside English speaking countries. If it even exists. If they can shave off some money on components by not having the high end noise cancellation malarky that they need for siri, well then why not do that? People who want it can probably jail break anyways, but can't complain if it is not up to standard. Also I think that there are cultural issues with talking to your device - unless there is another person on the end - in many countries. In the US, Siri is a differentiator, and seems to work well. 

 

Thats better than any compromise on the CPU - I mean last years is ok, but not a previous specced CPU. They can afford to compromise on the camera, the GPU, the amount of available RAM, the gyrator, accelerator etc. the amount of flash space. And the fingerprint magic sapphire covered dooda.

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post #53 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Munster made some unambiguous predictions. That will make it easy to evaluate him pretty soon.

Except that these analysts (including Munster) have made very specific predictions in the past that were consistently wrong - and no one seems to hold them accountable. It's as if they get a free pass no matter how many ridiculous things they say.

Someone really needs to start keeping track and publishing the results. Then the media could stop quoting the ones who are always wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Faster processor, more RAM, better screen, better camera, thinner, and fingerprint ID technology.  That's what I think the major differences will be.

Plus the glass and metal case vs a plastic case. I think you're right - that's PLENTY to differentiate the models without dropping Siri.
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post #54 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryd View Post

In a car I can see the use for it though.

Which is exactly why you'll never see a new iOS device launched without Siri. Apple is making a huge push for iOS in the Car, and that can't be done without Siri. We're talking about iPhones here, not iPod nanos.
post #55 of 107
We should believe this because Munster has such an impeccable record in his predictions, right?
post #56 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

No matter which internals this new purported 5C will get, it will be usable, meaning that it'll run iOS7 and it'll run it such that apps load quickly and there isn't any major and/or noticeable lag. To launch a new product that appears slow would be so un-Apple, and such bad business, it will never happen. The 5S might be faster, but using the 5C will not appear to users to be slow.

So, we then have essentially two phones that are the same, except materials, and if you want a more fragile case, fewer colour options and that Siri feature, you can spend $300 more (or whatever the price difference ends up being) and get the 5S. Or if you're the kind of person who doesn't give a rat's arse about Siri or the materials of the phone and you want a nice looking, very usable iPhone, you'll forgo the Siri functionality, save yourself about $300 and get the 5C. Doesn't that sound reasonable? The reason I ask is that Apple will have figured this out and would realise the potential complete cannibalisation of the 5S.

Siri turned off, is that all they can come up with? And if it's not turned off, then you've got two phones with the exact same functionality for different prices - which one will the average consumer purchase? Isn't it reasonable to assume that Apple realises that and has something completely different in store with this new phone??

I agree for the most part.

To the average user there won't be much different from the 2 phones.

I don't think Apple should strip Siri away but there has to be something other than the fingerprint sensor to make the 5S more desirable.

Also I agree with an earlier point that Siri does involve a lot of underlying infastructure for Apple. Removing it could be a way of shrinking overall cost for the phone.

But the same could be said of icloud I suppose. We'll see what the outcome ends up being but this rumor isn't too far fetched.
post #57 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

He could be right and here is why.

 

Siri is not very useful in British English. And therefore I suspect even more useless outside English speaking countries. If it even exists. If they can shave off some money on components by not having the high end noise cancellation malarky that they need for siri, well then why not do that? People who want it can probably jail break anyways, but can't complain if it is not up to standard. Also I think that there are cultural issues with talking to your device - unless there is another person on the end - in many countries. In the US, Siri is a differentiator, and seems to work well. 

 

Thats better than any compromise on the CPU - I mean last years is ok, but not a previous specced CPU. They can afford to compromise on the camera, the GPU, the amount of available RAM, the gyrator, accelerator etc. the amount of flash space. And the fingerprint magic sapphire covered dooda.

Are you drunk or something? Yes, it isn't very useful but clearly the goal is make it useful, not terminate siri. Some of you...

post #58 of 107
Prediction:

If they discontinue the iPhone 5 for the iPhone 5C, then here will be the prices

iPhone 5S 16GB: $299
iPhone 5C 32GB: $199

All prices are on contract

Again this is assuming the 5 will get discontinued.

I think the 5C was a move based on 2 factors. Apple losing on margin, and their phones getting banned by the ITC.

I think the aluminum design of the iPhone 5 cost therm more than they realized. I think they're trying to make the plastic iPhone be regular priced, and the aluminum iPhone be premium priced.

Again this is if Apple discontinues the 5. If they don't then that pricing scheme won't make sense at all.

There, I'm officially an analyst. Someone pay me for these crazy predictions 1biggrin.gif
post #59 of 107
This may be an odd thought... But does everybody think that the 5C will be rolled out globally?

I see quite a challenge with terminating the 4, 4S and the 5 at once. Limiting the 5C to mostly prepaid and no-subsidy markets for year one would maybe be easier to handle?

We should also not forget that some of these markets do not have 4G, and that in some even 3G is not widely used (one of our Indian clients with over 11k staff does only give 3G contracts to C-level management, everybody else is on 2G). Assuming that Siri requires a second noise-cancellation mic, 3G and likely a Nuance license, while a lot of languages and dialects are not even supported... There could be a point...
post #60 of 107
Just calm down. He's completely wrong.

The iPhone 5C will absolutely have Siri, and he's a complete idiot for even postulating that it could not. It has to.

End of discussion.
post #61 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

This may be an odd thought... But does everybody think that the 5C will be rolled out globally?

I see quite a challenge with terminating the 4, 4S and the 5 at once. Limiting the 5C to mostly prepaid and no-subsidy markets for year one would maybe be easier to handle?

We should also not forget that some of these markets do not have 4G, and that in some even 3G is not widely used (one of our Indian clients with over 11k staff does only give 3G contracts to C-level management, everybody else is on 2G). Assuming that Siri requires a second noise-cancellation mic, 3G and likely a Nuance license, while a lot of languages and dialects are not even supported... There could be a point...

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post #62 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Prediction:

If they discontinue the iPhone 5 for the iPhone 5C, then here will be the prices

iPhone 5S 16GB: $299
iPhone 5C 32GB: $199

All prices are on contract

Again this is assuming the 5 will get discontinued.

I think the 5C was a move based on 2 factors. Apple losing on margin, and their phones getting banned by the ITC.

I think the aluminum design of the iPhone 5 cost therm more than they realized. I think they're trying to make the plastic iPhone be regular priced, and the aluminum iPhone be premium priced.

Again this is if Apple discontinues the 5. If they don't then that pricing scheme won't make sense at all.

There, I'm officially an analyst. Someone pay me for these crazy predictions 1biggrin.gif
No way is the 5S (or whatever they call it) going to be more expensive than the 5, especially if the 5 and 4S get replaced by this colored plastic phone. I personally wish Apple would keep the 5 around as a lower cost option (similar to 4S pricing) for those who aren't interested in a colored plastic phone. Have the 5C (or whatever they call it) replace the iPhone 4 in the line up. And push that phone in developing countries.
post #63 of 107

Siri is staying on all new phones. PERIOD.  This is Apple's attack against Google search.  Apple will discontinue all phones except the 5S and 5C.  This will streamline production and increase margins.

 

5C prices will start at $350-$400 in foreign markets

5S will start at $600-$650

 

The 5S will differentiate from the 5C with a premium metal case, finger printer scanner, faster processor, and better camera.  In reality the 5C isn't even needed in the USA.  That's why I think they will price the 5C significantly higher in countries with subsidies.

 

In USA:

5C prices will start at $450-$500

5S start at $600-$650

5S $200 with contract

5C $50 with contract

 

What i think is interesting is that Apple's margins won't get hurt by a mid range phone.  In fact I think many people will opt for the C model but also add additional memory.  For example a 5C with 64G will probably be about $200 with contract.  That extra $150-$200 for the additional flash memory has a huge 80%+ profit margin.

post #64 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Nonsense!! The "5C" that they're referring to will do everything the current iPhone 5 can.

By all reports the new 'low cost model' (replacing possibly both the 4 & 4S and the current 5) will contain "previous generation hardware" (aka today's iPhone 5 internals), packaged in a lower cost 'plastic' enclosure. Nothing else appears to have changed.

The 5S will advance the generation with a more powerful CPU/GPU, better camera & features (slow motion, et al), better flash, possible fingerprint sensor, maybe new materials on the enclosure (liquidmetal?), and of course iOS 7 with the "new SIRI".

I can't imagine Apple "crippling" the iPhone 5C that much. It'll be enough that it's last year's technology and lower-cost materials. The people that want the cutting edge will still spring for the 5S.

 

I think there will be an iphone 5 replacement at around $500-$550.  But I am expecting a second model in the $400-$500 range. A third model in the $300-$400 range is a long shot, but it would be great for emerging markets un unsubsidize markets. Unless the hardware cant support it, I dont think they will disable features.

 

That being said, it would be very "Apple like" to make just one model for the low cost phone. If so, they need to hit something around $450 at 16g.  Or maybe $400 at 8g  If they make just one model, they must offer something at the iphone 4 price point.

post #65 of 107

1.  Siri forms a cornerstone of Apple's iOS strategy and expansion of its presence into the car.

2.  The iPhone 5C is meant to expand Apple's share of the smartphone market and will sell considerably more units than the 5S due to lower cost.

 

If you accept the two points above as fact, then even a retarded baboon could work out that there's no way Apple will pull Siri from the 5C.  This is why I hate "analysts" and the way they constantly talk out of their asses.  Apple wants Siri everywhere, it's not rocket science here.

post #66 of 107

Makes totally sense. Apple just updated Siri's voice in iOS7 to be more natural (also in other languages it appears a lot less "robotic"). Apple just expanded what Siri can do. And they will include it only on the flagship model leaving 50% and up (depending on how the market receives the iPhone 5C) without an essential feature? Come on.

 

I think apple should differentiate the two models on fingerprint sensor (with the next iteration of the 5C receiving it because it paves the way for more security, less theft and better mobile payment options), better camera, and more storage space (besides the usual "less performing processor).

 

The thing, new for the iPhone, is in fact that Apple is splitting the product in two. And they have to be very careful on the differentiations. I remember the white plastic MacBook had almost the same performance as the MacBook Pro. They abandoned the plastic MB when the Air came along and offered more portability. 

 

 

The key question for Apple will be which technologies will be important pillars moving forward and when to include them in which Phone. The iPhone 5S will be more "future proof" (will probably be able to connect to a future iWatch, whilst the 5C in its firs incarnation will not) or something along these lines.

 

Price is important for the iPhone 5C and carrier subsidies will bring retail price to almost zero. So people will change the phone every year, compared to the actual "2 years cycle (this is a feeling, no hard data to back it)" that currently seems to be the majority of cases.

post #67 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

This may be an odd thought... But does everybody think that the 5C will be rolled out globally?.

Why is it an odd thought? Apple regularly rolls out phones in a few countries at a time. There's no reason to expect that this would be any different.
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post #68 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

 

 

Price is important for the iPhone 5C and carrier subsidies will bring retail price to almost zero. So people will change the phone every year, compared to the actual "2 years cycle (this is a feeling, no hard data to back it)" that currently seems to be the majority of cases.

most people on two year contracts only upgrade after the 2 year period, regardless of handset cost.

post #69 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Siri is staying on all new phones. PERIOD.  This is Apple's attack against Google search.  Apple will discontinue all phones except the 5S and 5C.  This will streamline production and increase margins.

5C prices will start at $350-$400 in foreign markets
5S will start at $600-$650

The 5S will differentiate from the 5C with a premium metal case, finger printer scanner, faster processor, and better camera.  In reality the 5C isn't even needed in the USA.  That's why I think they will price the 5C significantly higher in countries with subsidies.

In USA:
5C prices will start at $450-$500
5S start at $600-$650
5S $200 with contract
5C $50 with contract

What i think is interesting is that Apple's margins won't get hurt by a mid range phone.  In fact I think many people will opt for the C model but also add additional memory.  For example a 5C with 64G will probably be about $200 with contract.  That extra $150-$200 for the additional flash memory has a huge 80%+ profit margin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I think there will be an iphone 5 replacement at around $500-$550.  But I am expecting a second model in the $400-$500 range. A third model in the $300-$400 range is a long shot, but it would be great for emerging markets un unsubsidize markets. Unless the hardware cant support it, I dont think they will disable features.

That being said, it would be very "Apple like" to make just one model for the low cost phone. If so, they need to hit something around $450 at 16g.  Or maybe $400 at 8g  If they make just one model, they must offer something at the iphone 4 price point.

The pricing will likely be very simple and in line with Apple's current pricing strategy.

My conservative guess is that the prices will be exactly where they are today:

8GB 5C replaced the 8GB 4 at $450

16GB 5C replaces the 16GB 4S at $550

16-64GB 5S replaces the iPhone 5 at all of its price points from $650-$850.

That's very simplistic and very likely. But my hope is that Apple will drive the price down further. I'd like to see:

8GB 5C for $350 sold exclusively unsubsidized through authorized Apple resellers. Available in white only.

16GB/32GB 5C for $450/$550 and available subsidized for $0/$99 through wireless carriers. All colors available at this price point.

32GB/64GB/128GB iPhone 5S for $650/$750/$850 unsubsidized and $199/$299/$399 subsidized.

That would make the next round of iPhones game changing in every continent and region.
post #70 of 107
That would be really stupid. Why make a phone look bad by taking away Siri. Siri doesn't cost anything so it won't raise the manufacturing cost, which is what this phone is focusing on.
post #71 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Except that these analysts (including Munster) have made very specific predictions in the past that were consistently wrong - and no one seems to hold them accountable. It's as if they get a free pass no matter how many ridiculous things they say.

Someone really needs to start keeping track and publishing the results. Then the media could stop quoting the ones who are always wrong.
Plus the glass and metal case vs a plastic case. I think you're right - that's PLENTY to differentiate the models without dropping Siri.

Wouldn't it be more fun to track and publish the track records of people here? ;)

post #72 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

In reality the 5C isn't even needed in the USA. 
Nope. T-Mobile is leading the way toward unsubsidized phones and abolishing contracts. The other major cell phone companies are taking this move seriously by developing their own off-contract plans. Apple, is ahead of the curve in this regard. The more people I speak to about buying new smartphones the more they are all leaning toward spending more up front to buy their phones with off-contract plans rather than spend considerably more for the phone over time, especially those who travel abroad and don't want to be saddled with a locked phone for two years.

As a result, the 5C is likely to be one of the most popular new phones among first time phone buyers, young people and the budget conscious.
post #73 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossistboss View Post

That would be really stupid. Why make a phone look bad by taking away Siri. Siri doesn't cost anything so it won't raise the manufacturing cost, which is what this phone is focusing on.

There is some rumors that Siri will go from an Internet-enabled solution to a standalone solution (no longer needing the cloud to process queries).  I am wondering if this will be Siri 2 and perhaps what is being removed is the original 'Siri' Internet service model?  

 

Or, is it possible that Apple added in new features into the A7 processor to make voice processing more power efficient so Siri can run 'untethered' and that the 5C will only have the 'old siri' or none at all?
 

post #74 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossistboss View Post

Siri doesn't cost anything

You know Siri has probably cost Apple hundreds of millions of dollars? It is not free and the cost for the service is baked into every iPhone where Siri is equipped.
post #75 of 107
It would be pointless to do this and not reduce the price of the lower end device.
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post #76 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


Nope. T-Mobile is leading the way toward unsubsidized phones and abolishing contracts. The other major cell phone companies are taking this move seriously by developing their own off-contract plans. Apple, is ahead of the curve in this regard. The more people I speak to about buying new smartphones the more they are all leaning toward spending more up front to buy their phones with off-contract plans rather than spend considerably more for the phone over time, especially those who travel abroad and don't want to be saddled with a locked phone for two years.

As a result, the 5C is likely to be one of the most popular new phones among first time phone buyers, young people and the budget conscious.

 

good point.  That is exactly why i would buy a 5C.  But it would only be worth it if you could use the same 5C to switch between carriers

post #77 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I personally wish Apple would keep the 5 around as a lower cost option (similar to 4S pricing) for those who aren't interested in a colored plastic phone. Have the 5C (or whatever they call it) replace the iPhone 4 in the line up. And push that phone in developing countries.

 

Personally, I think they will keep the 5 around, why would they not? They'll still offer the 5 in a 16GB version to replace the roles of the 4 and 4S - there is no cost associated with this to Apple. Why would they not? They have to do nothing manufacturing-wise to create this product, why not just let the production lines roll on - it's the cheapest way to offer a low-cost iPhone that doesn't threaten the total cannibalisation of the high end model. This 5C if it exists will play a different role than merely replacing the 4 and 4S - it would not make any sense to create a whole new phone just so they can get rid of the 4 and 4S, the 5 will serve that purpose perfectly. This 5C is something else.


Edited by williamlondon - 8/13/13 at 7:53am
post #78 of 107

iOS in the car will be the next big Apple push, this requires SIRI, therefore it'll have to stay.

post #79 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

Personally, I think they will keep the 5 around, why would they not? They'll still offer the 5 in a 16GB version to replace the roles of the 4 and 4S - there is no cost associated with this to Apple. Why would they not? They have to do nothing manufacturing-wise to create this product, why not just let the production lines roll on - it's the cheapest way to offer a low-cost iPhone that doesn't threaten the total cannibalisation of the high end model. This 5C if it exists will play a different role than merely replacing the 4 and 4S - it would not make any sense to create a whole new phone just so they can get rid of the 4 and 4S, the 5 will serve that purpose perfectly. This 5C is something else.

The 5C will be far more profitable than a discounted 5 no matter how you look at it. For $550 Apple would make more money selling a 16GB or even 32GB 5C than a 16GB 5.

The iPhone 5 is done after September 10th.
post #80 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


The 5C will be far more profitable than a discounted 5 no matter how you look at it. For $550 Apple would make more money selling a 16GB or even 32GB 5C than a 16GB 5.

The iPhone 5 is done after September 10th.

 

I'll take that bet. :-)

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