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Piper Jaffray: 'iPhone 5C' may not include Siri, could replace iPhone 4S at bottom of lineup - Page 3

post #81 of 107
so you know how much the 5c will cost, the profit margin and the discount that might be offered on the 5?
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


The 5C will be far more profitable than a discounted 5 no matter how you look at it. For $550 Apple would make more money selling a 16GB or even 32GB 5C than a 16GB 5.

The iPhone 5 is done after September 10th.
post #82 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

 

I'll take that bet. :-)

 

iPhone5 will be done. They will sell the remaining stock and it will be done.

 

5C and 5S will be the only phones sold.

 

next generation will be

6S

6C

6SL - large screen

6CL

post #83 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Duh.... Apple has to differentiate it somehow.

If the iPhone 5C has a 4" screen like the flagship iPhone... and a decent enough camera to use with Instagram... and a decent enough GPU and processor to play Candy Crush... why would anyone pay the big bucks for the flagship iPhone 5S ?
Yes but this 5c is supposed to be a close value to 4s or 5 so if there is that, then the iPhone 5s will have the specs that beat market and it will likely have everything made cheaper including the tiny things like only 2 microphones on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Dumbest 5C prediction I've heard so far. The only thing the 5C won't have is the fingerprint scanner. Otherwise, it's an iPhone 5 in a plastic case.
The 5c or whatever might be that but likely not a simple 5, more like a powerful 4s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple is losing me here.

Why having a crippled iPhone 5S as a 5C? As if Siri and finger sensors are a deal breaker to me?

Why not just having a 3,5" screen for the 5C? 3,5" is a cute size and a REAL differentiator. Some value screen estate, others value portability. Having said that, I wouldn't make the screen bigger than 4".

And why not calling the 5C, the iPhone mini? Like iPad and iPad mini. Mac and Mac mini? And hopefully soon, iPod (= Touch with 4" screen) and iPod mini (= Touch with 3,5" screen).
. I am hoping for these with these other specs a5, non retina 3.5 inch (retina is more price than value for cheaper phones) 5-8 megapixel iSight, 1.2 megapixel FaceTime, 2 mics, single flash, in plastic case with 8, 16, 32 gb options around $300-$600 non contracted price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryd View Post

Does anyone outside of the US ever use Siri? I have never used it, the mere idea of talking to an inanimate object seems silly to me. A good example of technology that most of the users never use, and as such a perfect candidate for removing if it means a cheaper phone. In a car I can see the use for it though.

removing is not saving verry much $$, if it had the hardware then it can run Siri simple as that, if it does not run Siri were looking closer to 4 and 3GS hardware (plastic case).
post #84 of 107

Good grief, the colors on those phones are hideous. They're not as bad as Zune Brown, but still hideous.

post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Are you drunk or something? Yes, it isn't very useful but clearly the goal is make it useful, not terminate siri. Some of you...

 

No I am not drunk - reported - but this becomes a bigger challenge for different languages.  You also dismissed my cultural discussion. Apple will know where SIRI is being used and may decide it is not worth it, or adds no value, in the markets it is now targeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodycurmudgeon View Post

1.  Siri forms a cornerstone of Apple's iOS strategy and expansion of its presence into the car.

2.  The iPhone 5C is meant to expand Apple's share of the smartphone market and will sell considerably more units than the 5S due to lower cost.

 

If you accept the two points above as fact, then even a retarded baboon could work out that there's no way Apple will pull Siri from the 5C.  This is why I hate "analysts" and the way they constantly talk out of their asses.  Apple wants Siri everywhere, it's not rocket science here.

 

Moving into the car means getting an iOS device, which isn't an iPhone, into cars. Top end cars too. For people who can afford a top end iPhone. Point 2) is just a statement of fact unrelated to SIRI.
 
Siri costs money per device. There is no subscription model, its a long term cost for Apple to maintain those servers, its a cost to handle a query,  and Apple like to make money post iPhone sales, not lose it.

Edited by asdasd - 8/13/13 at 9:52am
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post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

 

iPhone5 will be done. They will sell the remaining stock and it will be done.

 

5C and 5S will be the only phones sold.

 

next generation will be

6S

6C

6SL - large screen

6CL

Probably not a 6CL though, but the rest is correct.

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post #87 of 107

Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
If the iPhone 5C has a 4" screen like the flagship iPhone... and a decent enough camera to use with Instagram... and a decent enough GPU and processor to play Candy Crush... why would anyone pay the big bucks for the flagship iPhone 5S ?

 

Because it's year old hardware and made of plastic. How is that even a question?


Originally Posted by mr O View Post
Why not just having a 3,5" screen for the 5C? 3,5" is a cute size and a REAL differentiator.

 

There's no reason for differing screen sizes. All it does is destroy app compatibility.


And hopefully soon, iPod (= Touch with 4" screen) and iPod mini (= Touch with 3,5" screen).

 

That's obviously never happening.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #88 of 107

First, the iPhone 4 does not have Siri and it currently sells very well, yes? So obviously there are people who don't know/care about Siri when they are buying a Feature Smart Phone. 

 

Second, I don't see how replacing the back panel alone will reduce the cost enough to bring it down to prices people are imagining. [updated] Thinking on this more, the total cost of production would be less if using components that don't require the same level of fit and finish. I wonder how much this would save? 

 

Third, either Apple releases something in the 5S that is far and away magical (and not just the fingerprint scanner), or it will just be specs that differentiates the line, which is what is different now in the 4 and 4S. 

 

I find it hard to believe that the iPhone C will be the only Apple product that is plastic, with the exception of the Airport line. However, growing 'evidence' speaks against me.

 

Notice how Apple defines their products by form factor. MBA vs. MBP, iMac vs. Mac Pro vs. Mac Mini, the many form factors of the iPod. The two form factors of the iPad and currently the 2 form factors of the iPhone.  You do have the MBPr, but I think that is a stepping stone that will displace the current MBP. 

 

So if I were to guess, it would be form factor that differentiates the iPhone line. I thought all along they would keep the form factor of the 4s and the 5 moving forward, but it could also be the 5 with the 5S being larger. 

 

Remember the big fight when the 4S was launched with Siri and people commented on buying a new phone that looked like the old phone without the new features? To go to the other posters, people want to be seen as different when they pay more. If people are paying that much more, they want others to know it. Or at least for themselves to feel vindicated spending the extra money. 

 

My second guess would be releasing a lower end feature smart phone just to depressed markets. 

 

Let the flaming begin... : )


Edited by Richard Getz - 8/13/13 at 10:34am
post #89 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by CustomTB View Post

By all accounts Siri gets better the more people use it. It will be ubiquitous.

As RockSolid implies, limiting the 5c to 16 or even 8 GB would be enough to prevent a lot of cannibalization, at least for anyone who actually uses their iPhone. I could barely fit my apps on 8, let alone pics, video, or anything else.

Clearly there will have to be more differences from a cost standpoint but it won't be cuts in major features.

 

If we assume that the majority of potential 5C owners are those that will opt for cheaper tariffs (ie. those with limited data allowances) the idea of limiting the storage to 8gb seems folly.

 

Apple need to sell phones to generate income via iTunes. Who is going to buy music or apps on the spur of the moment if they can't store it on their phone or stream it to their handset?

 

Perhaps they need to include SD.

 

Apple can afford to take a slight direct profit hit on what is often referred to as the "race to the bottom" provided that those deferred profits are realised through ITunes sales.

 

It's a tough one though. It is clear that Apple are not happy with the 3 generation model system. I honestly do not know if the two horse flagship and budget option will fair any better. As suggested in an earlier post, a choice of different premium and budget handsets might make more sense.

post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

My second guess would be releasing a lower end feature smart phone just to depressed markets. 

 

Let the flaming begin... : )

I admit that I was thinking of something akin to the shuffle, albeit on that has (more) functionality. I just didn't have the guts to deal with the inevitable flak.

post #91 of 107
5 "C" surely means running the China Mobile latest gen network. 5s, 4s*, 5C

* Admittedly I love the 4/4s design so that may be wishful thinking. Though from a lineup standpoint I do think it makes sense. A bit like the "3" iPad being replaced by the 4, while the 2 remained.
post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Perhaps they need to include SD.

Never gonna happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

* Admittedly I love the 4/4s design so that may be wishful thinking. Though from a lineup standpoint I do think it makes sense. A bit like the "3" iPad being replaced by the 4, while the 2 remained.

The current 4S situation is nothing like the iPad 2 situation.
post #93 of 107
Leaving out Siri doesn't drop the production price, so it can't drive the retail price. I'll wager it's an iPhone 4s with one more row of icons, a plastic case and not much else of consequence.
post #94 of 107
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post
Leaving out Siri doesn't drop the production price, so it can't drive the retail price. I'll wager it's an iPhone 4s with one more row of icons, a plastic case and not much else of consequence.

 

Why would they remake two year old hardware under the name '5'?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #95 of 107
I'm hearing a lot of to about the iPhone 5C being released as a low-end device, yet somehow it will he the same internals as the current iPhone 5. The current iPhone 5 retails (in the US) for $629-$829 (16GB-64GB). Those prices reflect the high-end nature if the current device. If the current iPhone 5's internals were placed into the iPhone 5C you would be looking at a mid-range device in the neighborhood of $400-$500, but nowhere near the $300 or below mark suggested by readers here or this article. If the iPhone 5C is truly a low-end sub-$300 device then I would expect internals somewhere between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4S, but definitely not superior to the 4S. The only difference will be the screen. The screen will definitely be 4" as Apple now requires all iPhone apps submitted to support the 4" retina display. However, don't expect the iPhone 5's gorgeous display, rather expect the 4" display currently found on the iPod Touch, with inferior color reproduction and viewing angles.
post #96 of 107

Originally Posted by politicalslug View Post
If the current iPhone 5's internals were placed into the iPhone 5C you would be looking at a mid-range device in the neighborhood of $400-$500


Except how do you come to that conclusion?


…but nowhere near the $300 or below mark suggested by readers here or this article.

 

That's probably because it's not going to be anywhere near $300 or below. That's crazy.


However, don't expect the iPhone 5's gorgeous display, rather expect the 4" display currently found on the iPod Touch, with inferior color reproduction and viewing angles.

 

They're the same panel now…

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


That's very simplistic and very likely. But my hope is that Apple will drive the price down further. I'd like to see:

8GB 5C for $350 sold exclusively unsubsidized through authorized Apple resellers. Available in white only.
16GB/32GB 5C for $450/$550 and available subsidized for $0/$99 through wireless carriers. All colors available at this price point.
32GB/64GB/128GB iPhone 5S for $650/$750/$850 unsubsidized and $199/$299/$399 subsidized.

That would make the next round of iPhones game changing in every continent and region.

 

I like this...  would be great

post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

WHY?!

Because even the iPod Touch has Siri.

post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple is losing me here.

 

Why having a crippled iPhone 5S as a 5C? As if Siri and finger sensors are a deal breaker to me?

 

Apple hasn't announced anything yet. It's the rumor mill that is losing you. Or can't you tell the difference?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

iPhone5 will be done. They will sell the remaining stock and it will be done.

 

5C and 5S will be the only phones sold.

 

next generation will be

6S

6C

6SL - large screen

6CL

 

Excellent fiction. You're about ready to write for AppleInsider!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #101 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I like this...  would be great

Thanks!

As I said above, Apple will probably err on the conservative side and price the 5C at the current 4/4S price points, but I'd like to see Apple more aggressive.

I want to see an iPhone that the average joe can pick up at Walmart. Take home. Then activate on any carrier he wants from the comfort of iTunes on his computer. Or better yet activate it right from the phone!

That's the game changing concept that Apple should be pushing. The iPhone 5C could be the phone that weans customers off of the carrier model, which frankly has already begun with the various Nexus models.

Of course there will always be the subsidized models as well for those that want higher end phones with little upfront costs.

That's why on my pricing model, the colorful iPhone 5Cs are free or $99 on contract. Perfect phone for parents to but their kids if their already on a family wireless plan.

Likewise the 5S occupies the space the premium model always has except double the storage space making it that much more of a lucrative buy.
post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


Thanks!

As I said above, Apple will probably err on the conservative side and price the 5C at the current 4/4S price points, but I'd like to see Apple more aggressive.

I want to see an iPhone that the average joe can pick up at Walmart. Take home. Then activate on any carrier he wants from the comfort of iTunes on his computer. Or better yet activate it right from the phone!

That's the game changing concept that Apple should be pushing. The iPhone 5C could be the phone that weans customers off of the carrier model, which frankly has already begun with the various Nexus models.

Of course there will always be the subsidized models as well for those that want higher end phones with little upfront costs.

That's why on my pricing model, the colorful iPhone 5Cs are free or $99 on contract. Perfect phone for parents to but their kids if their already on a family wireless plan.

Likewise the 5S occupies the space the premium model always has except double the storage space making it that much more of a lucrative buy.

 

Apple are aware of the sweet spot for devices - its about $199-$299. They are also aware of the fact that their margins depend on the iPhone these days so don't expect the lower end until a new product is maintaining margins elsewhere i.e. a TV or some such.

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post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Apple are aware of the sweet spot for devices - its about $199-$299. They are also aware of the fact that their margins depend on the iPhone these days so don't expect the lower end until a new product is maintaining margins elsewhere i.e. a TV or some such.

We'll see how much Apple has been able to get the manufacturing and component price down so far.

$199 is probably not feasible but honestly there are no good smartphones at that price anyway. Most decent Android phones start at $299.

I think $350 for Apple could be a feasible starting price for a completely unlocked unsubsidized low end model. Yes that's $100 less than the 4 but we are expecting a far cheaper manufacturing process for this as well as some economy of scale benefits with the chips and screen.

For a plastic phone I think $350 should be doable and still profitable even for Apple's high standards.
post #104 of 107
That's perhaps good news for those of us who're budget conscious--in my case a writer's budget. Not offering Siri would mean less load on Apple's huge server farm and less day-to-day expense.

Until now, I've been less than impressed with the rumors of prices of this new phone. Pricing it about $100 less isn't going to work. People will either pay more for the style of the top iPhone or say 'to heck with Apple' and go for a cheaper Samsung phone. Carefully cutting out features few use makes more sense. Apple can't get rid of the GPS or various sensors. That sort of awareness is built into how iPhones are used. But it can drop Siri. All it does can be done by tapping onscreen.
post #105 of 107
Munster - one of the worst analysts around. No Siri on the 5C - nonsense. As for everything he predicts - he didn't predict anything that hasn't already been predicted. Finally a $300 price tag for the 5C...I wish! But no chance - $400 and upwards me thinks.
post #106 of 107

No Siri because it's all going into the new Apple television set, right Gene?

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post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

No Siri on the rumoured "5C"? Rubbish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

WHY?!


Simple. Not since Steve returned has Apple crippled a product. So, if they've ever offered a feature, they don't remove it to make a lesser priced product. Apple only adds features. Finally, Siri raised the bar, making voice control important for any and all competitors, furthermore iOS 7 allows Siri to interact with more programs, including 3rd-party apps. No way will Apple remove that advantage making Siri not handier to iOS7 users and splitting how apps work depending on the model of new iPhone.

Munster is smoking the shipping room twine again...
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