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Oracle's Larry Ellison slams Google's Larry Page as person behind 'evil' decisions

post #1 of 76
Thread Starter 
Larry Ellison, chief executive of Oracle, had harsh words on Google CEO Larry Page in a new interview, calling him the primary decision maker responsible for "evil" actions taken by the search giant.

Page


Ellison spoke about his company's ongoing lawsuit against Google in an interview with Charlie Rose of CBS News. Rose asked Ellison about whether he has trouble with Page and Google co-founder Sergey Brin. Ellison responded that his issues are "specifically" with Page.

"He makes the decisions over there," Ellison said of Page. "He runs that company. Nobody else runs that company."

Rose then asked Ellison whether what Google did was evil. America's third-richest man said yes, but stopped short of calling Page himself evil.

"It makes what he did evil, which is quite different," Ellison said. "And I know his slogan is 'Don't be evil,' and I think he slipped up this one time. This really bothers me. I don't see how he thinks you can just copy someone else's stuff."



In an ongoing legal dispute, Oracle has accused Google of stealing its code without permission. And according to Ellison, the blame for that falls squarely on Google's CEO.

"When you write a program for the Android phone, you use the Oracle Java tools for everything," the 68-year-old said. "And then at the very end, you press a button and say, 'Convert this to Android format.' We don't compete with Google. We don't do anything Google does. We just think they took our stuff, and that was wrong."

Late Apple co-founder Steve Jobs had similar feelings on Android, declaring it a "stolen product" in interviews with biographer Walter Isaacson. Jobs and Ellison were close, and in his interview with Rose, Ellison referred to Jobs as his "best friend for 25 years."

In an excerpt from the same interview revealed on Monday, Ellison suggested that Apple will not be as successful in the post-Jobs era. He told Rose that the world had already seen the company Apple without Jobs once, and it did not go well.
post #2 of 76

Wouldn't he be a touch biased?

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #3 of 76
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wouldn't he be a touch biased?

Ya think? He's got a pretty long history commenting about what he thinks of other people in the tech industry. One of my favorites was his comment that cloud services were like a roach motel( discussing SalesForce). You get in but you don't get out. LOL!
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #4 of 76
This guy was kind of a downer in this article.
post #5 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wouldn't he be a touch biased?

More than a touch, but he won't be the only one.
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post #6 of 76
Suddenly, Larry E. has become my hero!

But Larry P. is not evil .... he's just a moron running the most useless tech company in the history of humanity.

P.S. Larry E., you are wrong though believing Apple would go down without SJ. Very VERY wrong!

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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post #7 of 76

I think Larry Ellison is angry at Google for various reasons. He knows more of what is going on at the top level of IT companies than any of us commenting here on AI. I wonder if he is angry at Samsung too? And if so, did he ever publicly gave his opinion on the real evil company?

post #8 of 76
Is Ellison suffering from menopause? He's on a roll the last two days.

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post #9 of 76
Ellison is an outspoken CEO which isn't a good thing but I agree with him that Page doesn't have any respect for other companies. Android has stolen Java code from Sun and touch UI from Apple. Under Page Google has lost its innocence and became the most evil monopolistic company of the decade like IBM and Microsoft. Google is the new big brother destroying its competition by using every single dirty trick in the book. Shame on you Mr Page.
post #10 of 76
So Larry, tell us how you really feel.
post #11 of 76
Samsung evil? Lol. Samsung is just Google's puppet. Google is the real evil behind Android.
post #12 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

But Larry P. is not evil .... he's just a moron running the most useless tech company in the history of humanity.

 

And yet he's sipping champagne on a gold-plated yacht while you type comments on an internet forum. Life just isn't far, is it?

post #13 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie View Post

I think Larry Ellison is angry at Google for various reasons. He knows more of what is going on at the top level of IT companies than any of us commenting here on AI. I wonder if he is angry at Samsung too? And if so, did he ever publicly gave his opinion on the real evil company?

I would venture to guess that Larry Ellison doesn't own a single product with the Samsung name on the front of it.

post #14 of 76

Larry is jealous of all the attention Elon is getting

Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

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Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

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post #15 of 76
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Originally Posted by mir808 View Post

Samsung evil? Lol. Samsung is just Google's puppet. Google is the real evil behind Android.

Samsung's been caught twice price fixing and I don't think they've learned.

 

Samsung is a typical company that makes components that wants to control the market from components to the entire industry.


They have products using over 4 different OSs in just smartphones.  Android, Windows, Bada and now Tizen.  I think they are covering their bases to see which crap is going to stick.  They essentially control the component flow for most of the smartphones and tablets on the market from NAND, RAM, AMOLED to whatever other components they sell to their smartphone/tablet competitors.

post #16 of 76
Apparently in Larry's mind, Gil Amelio just took over right after jobs died, and there are no differences in the board of directors, AND they leaned nothing from their success with jobs.
post #17 of 76
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Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Larry is jealous of all the attention Elon is getting

No there is someone I really admire!
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #18 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

And yet he's sipping champagne on a gold-plated yacht while you type comments on an internet forum. Life just isn't far, is it?

So you're saying that all is fair when you have obscene wealth as a result?
post #19 of 76
hardware yes, but that's all they have. The truth is If it wasn't for Android, Samsung would still be "just another hardware company from Asia." Apple doesn't have a Samsung problem but they have an Android problem. If I where running Apple I'd worry more about Google's increasing dominance in technology rather than wasting my time with Samsung.
post #20 of 76

LOL, now I can see all the folks calling Ellison an idiot in that other thread suddenly conflicted...

post #21 of 76

Yes, from the beginning Google is trying to copy Microsoft's success against Apple with a sea of cheap iPhone clone makers. 

post #22 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

Suddenly, Larry E. has become my hero!

But Larry P. is not evil .... he's just a moron running the most useless tech company in the history of humanity.

P.S. Larry E., you are wrong though believing Apple would go down without SJ. Very VERY wrong!


He did not say Apple will go down.  He says Apple will not be as successful without Jobs. 

post #23 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Payne View Post

Apparently in Larry's mind, Gil Amelio just took over right after jobs died, and there are no differences in the board of directors, AND they leaned nothing from their success with jobs.

It's natural to make such a conclusion, whether it is ultimately correct or not. Apple works better when focused. A board of directors not well controlled by a single force and mission (NOT the "maximize share value mission") is unlikely to be as successful. They default back to maintenance of share values (and obsession with infinitely increasing them, which is unsustainable).

I hope he's wrong. I hope Apple keeps up the right thinking and forces the computer industry to evolve past its immature childish level of development. They've started it. The tech geek hangers-on call it "dumbing down", but the hangers-on tech geeks are a branch of society that is not forward moving or ultimately sustainable themselves; things need to evolve toward robust maturity, not the same old overly technical crap with bigger numbers.
post #24 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir808 View Post

hardware yes, but that's all they have. The truth is If it wasn't for Android, Samsung would still be "just another hardware company from Asia." Apple doesn't have a Samsung problem but they have an Android problem. If I where running Apple I'd worry more about Google's increasing dominance in technology rather than wasting my time with Samsung.


Samsung has been making mobile phones much earlier than when iPhone came out in 2007 without much success like the iPhone. 

post #25 of 76

To understand who really is larry Ellison, just think what's happening to America's Cup...

post #26 of 76

Kind of an exaggeration about Android development saying they use all of our (Oracle) tools to program with and then at the end they press a button to convert it to Android. I think most Android developers use Eclipse with ADT plugin.

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post #27 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

... But Larry P. is not evil .... he's just a moron running the most useless tech company in the history of humanity. ...

 

Ellison didn't say Page he was evil.  In fact he pointedly avoided saying that he was.  

He said that he was responsible for the "evil" decisions they have made recently, and that the "do no evil" motto was Page's idea.  

 

The implication is that Page is an asshole/hypocrite and that the "do no evil" motto is crap.  Jobs said the same thing without specifically naming Page. 


Edited by Gazoobee - 8/13/13 at 11:02am
post #28 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

LOL, now I can see all the folks calling Ellison an idiot in that other thread suddenly conflicted...

Bingo. Let the backtracking begin.
post #29 of 76

I personally always believe that Ellison sues google not because he truly believe Android was stolen from them. But because of his friendship with Jobs, I can see them having a discussion over a glass of wine and it going something like this. 

 

Steve - I hate google and page, they stole the iphone  and page stayed on my board and never said a word about making a phone.

Larry - Steve, I think I can help you with that problem,

Steve - How is that

Larry - Well, Rubin has made it known they were using Java and they are not paying me. So I will sue them for you and this way you do not looking like you're vindictive. then you go and sue all the Android licensee for their use of Android and infringing on Apple IP.

Steve - Hey that is a great idea, let wage thermonuclear war on google.

post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wouldn't he be a touch biased?

More than a touch, but he won't be the only one.

It depends on what's meant by saying he's biased. In the video he talks about how he sees Oracle technology being used for Android but they don't license anything:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50152857n

He's doing alright there for 68. Billionaire, beautiful women (even if she's an ex now):



All from databases.

He sees Google as thieves. Even if they are Robin Hood-like thieves that take expensive tech and give it away (with the small difference from Robin Hood being that it's used to sell advertising and generate large profits), they are still seen as having taken other companies' IP.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57586990-93/oracle-appeal-in-google-api-copyright-suit-hit-with-criticism/

"At the end of the trial, a jury handed down a partial verdict that found that Google infringed the overall structure, sequence, and organization of Java's language, but offered no opinion on the matter of fair use. A few days later, however, the judge presiding over the case, Judge William Alsup, ruled that the APIs were non-copyrightable, which led to the dismissal of Oracle's copyright infringement claim.

Unhappy with this outcome, Oracle filed an appeal to the judge's ruling in October. In its appeals brief, the company said Google's use of Java in Android was "decidedly unfair" and that copyright is designed to protect all kinds of works, including "a short poem or even a Chinese menu," but what it created in Java was "vastly more original, creative, and labor-intensive."
Regarding EFF's amicus brief, Oracle's Deborah Hellinger told CNET, "I guess everyone is having collective amnesia about the uncontroverted testimony that Android is not compatible with Java."

http://www.businessinsider.com/googles-larry-page-a-good-relationship-with-oracle-doesnt-seem-possible-2013-5

"The issue is Android, which is written in a programming language called Java. Oracle gained control of Java when it bought Sun Microsystems in 2010.

That means that most Android applications are written in a form of Java customized for Android.

Oracle sued Google in 2010 for copyright and patent infringment over its use of Java in Android, and last May a jury ruled in Google's favor. Developers worry they'll be hurt as the two tech giants squabble.

Page didn't have a great answer for that.

"We've had a difficult relationship with Oracle, including having to appear in court," he quipped. "We'd like to have a positive relationship with them but that doesn't seem possible. Money is more important to them than any kind of collaboration."

He only added vaguely, "I think we'll get through that. Android is very important to the Java ecosystem. We'll get through that just fine, just not in an ideal way."

Google has a habit of taking things that are difficult to protect under the law but clearly take a lot of work to implement. Apple will have gone through dozens of iterations of the iPhone over a number of years before the 2007 launch and to some people it's ok to come along, look at that and say 'oh cool, rectangle shape, bouncy scrolling, I'll take that' and trivialise the work that went into putting together the whole reference design. Google always uses statements like "money is more important to them than any kind of collaboration". Well, how about giving away the Google search engine or Adword designs to Microsoft, Apple or Oracle if money is less important than collaboration? They are happy to give away other people's work for free but not their own. I'm sure Oracle would happily give away Google's IP if it didn't affect their bottom line.
post #31 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Is Ellison suffering from menopause?.

Why? What happens upon menopause?
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir808 View Post

Samsung evil? Lol. Samsung is just Google's puppet. Google is the real evil behind Android.

 

Samsung's evilness goes far beyond Google. But this dont get much reported for political reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

Suddenly, Larry E. has become my hero!

But Larry P. is not evil .... he's just a moron running the most useless tech company in the history of humanity.

P.S. Larry E., you are wrong though believing Apple would go down without SJ. Very VERY wrong!

 

Larry P. isn;t evil per se. But he create evil by saying he does no evil, which he did and went on labeling others evil. And that to me is the ugliest form of evil.

post #33 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Bingo. Let the backtracking begin.

Not necessarily. The Copenhagen interpretation says that Larry must be in a quantum superposition of idiot and hero at the same time.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Is Ellison suffering from menopause? He's on a roll the last two days.

Suffering from menopause and on a roll? Mix metaphors often?
post #35 of 76

I don't know how one can say Larry Page is the only evil influence at Google. After all, Eric Schmidt headed the Java development effort at Sun Microsystems before being recruited to Google and "cloning" the Java Virtual Machine for Android (Dalvik).

post #36 of 76
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Why? What happens upon menopause?

 

Anabaptists go for coffee.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #37 of 76
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Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Larry is jealous of all the attention Elon is getting

 

As good an explanation as any. Huge egos all.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #38 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In an excerpt from the same interview revealed on Monday, Ellison suggested that Apple will not be as successful in the post-Jobs era. He told Rose that the world had already seen the company Apple without Jobs once, and it did not go well.

 

Apple sure the hell wasn't as successful back when Ellison was on the board, either.  Just an observation...

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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post #39 of 76
So Google should acquire Samsung or vice versa -- they are both slimy copying companies it would seem.
post #40 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Kind of an exaggeration about Android development saying they use all of our (Oracle) tools to program with and then at the end they press a button to convert it to Android. I think most Android developers use Eclipse with ADT plugin.

 

And the Eclipse is running which JDK?  

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