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'iPhone 5C' expected to replace iPhone 5, while Apple's iPhone 4S will live on

post #1 of 108
Thread Starter 
This fall, Apple's newly revamped iPhone lineup is expected to include the high-end "iPhone 5S," a plastic "iPhone 5C," and a low-end option with the legacy iPhone 4S, according to a well-connected insider.

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Rendering of "iPhone 5C" based on reportedly leaked schematics.


Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities said in a research note on Monday that he believes Apple's anticipated "iPhone 5C" will actually be positioned as the company's mid-range device, not a low-end option as was previously rumored. Instead, the company's entry-level iPhone will be the iPhone 4S, he said.

Kuo expects the so-called "iPhone 5C" to cost between $400 and $500 without a contract subsidy. Meanwhile, the iPhone 4S ? first released in 2011 ? will run between $300 and $400, according to Kuo.

The updated lineup will also mean the end of the iPhone 4, which was first released in 2010.

Kuo's claims run contrary to some recent rumors, which suggested that the "iPhone 5C" could replace both the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4. The logic behind that line of thinking was that Apple wanted its entire iPhone lineup to feature larger 4-inch displays and the new Lightning connector, completely removing the legacy 30-pin connector from the company's product lineup.

The "iPhone 5C" is expected to include largely the same components as Apple's current top-of-the-line iPhone 5, including an A6 processor and a 4-inch Retina display. Apple is expected to cut costs and boost margins by featuring a plastic back for the device, which is likely to come in a range of colors based on various leaks.

The "iPhone 5S," meanwhile, is expected to become Apple's new premium smartphone, featuring the same metal construction as the iPhone 5, but sporting a fingerprint sensor beneath the home button as well as a dual LED flash component for better low-light photos.
post #2 of 108
If they are going to continue the 4S, surely it must at least have the connector upgraded?
post #3 of 108
A plastic-bodied phone will be more expensive than a metal-bodied one? This makes no senseat all.
post #4 of 108
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
If they are going to continue the 4S, surely it must at least have the connector upgraded?

 

Why? They haven't changed the iPod classic in five years. The 4S can serve for those who think the Dock Connector is super neat-o keen and/or don't want to buy new speakers.

 

I don't like the idea of keeping the 4S around, but at least it can be justified.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #5 of 108
Wow Kuo really is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Why in the world would Apple continue the 4S when they're trying to get everyone off 30 pin and on to lightning?
post #6 of 108

Evidence?

 

No?

 

Do not believe "I reckon" analysts.

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post #7 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

If they are going to continue the 4S, surely it must at least have the connector upgraded?

 

Very good point. It would be odd to keep it with the 30 pin connector.

Having said that, they still carry the iPod classic with a 30 pin connector.

post #8 of 108
The China market will require the new Qualcomm G3 support expected in the 5C. The 4S won't work on the China Mobile's G3 technology.
post #9 of 108
Originally Posted by Cintos View Post
The China market will require the new Qualcomm G3 support expected in the 5C. The 4S won't work on the China Mobile's G3 technology.

 

Who says they're getting the 4S, anyway? They don't have it now and everyone else does.

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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #10 of 108

Total BS.  I'm glad he reported this.  Just means that his other 'prediction' are full of crap also (fingerprint button not being concave)

post #11 of 108
Lets see if the wider media picks up on this story like they do IDC or Strategy Analytics press releases.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57599085-37/apple-snagged-20-percent-of-its-iphone-buyers-from-android/
post #12 of 108
ascii: I concur. Unless they keep the iPad 2, it makes no sense to have a 4s in the lineup.

My thought is that they drop both the 5 and the 4s, and they move to a extended 2 tier lineup, or a 2.5 tier lineup, where the 'top device' has a now lower entry in price by $100 for lower storage (8gb?), as iCloud becomes more of a staging space for music through Match (dynamic cloud storage), and is extended to books, video and even apps. That way Apple makes up the lower subsidy with extended cloud sales ($50 over the life of the device).

That way the 'c' device can be leveraged longer, and only released every other year (released on 's' upgrade dates with the old SoC.)

Finally, this is the sort of 'analysis' that reeks of being 'seeded' by disinformation campaign. I can wait 3 weeks.
post #13 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Wow Kuo really is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Why in the world would Apple continue the 4S when they're trying to get everyone off 30 pin and on to lightning?

And more importantly they wouldn't keep 4S coz developers then need to cater apps for the 3.5" screen aswell as the 4" one.
Makes no sense.

There offering should be

5S - High End
5 - Mid range
5C - Low end

Or prolly shuffle between 5 and 5C for mid / low.
post #14 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post


And more importantly they wouldn't keep 4S coz developers then need to cater apps for the 3.5" screen aswell as the 4" one.
Makes no sense.

There offering should be

5S - High End
5 - Mid range
5C - Low end

Or prolly shuffle between 5 and 5C for mid / low.


What advantage does the 5 have over (what we know about) the 5C besides the aluminum back and being 1mm thinner?  I'm not sure its much of a mid range really.  I guess it could happen if they used artificial software limitations (such as removing Siri from the 5C) but I hope they don't do that.

 

If they have 4S stock then the analyst makes sense, though I think the ideal situation is for 5C, 5S only, then going forward 5C, 5S, 6.

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Doodle Dice iPhone puzzle game: A fun, free physics-laden collection of dice games.  Greatest app made yet?  Perhaps young man... Perhaps.
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post #15 of 108
So let me get this straight. They will not keep the iPhone 5 but will keep the iPhone 4S instead? Why? Older tech, 30 pin, worse screen, etc. they just released the iPhone 5 they are not going to discontinue that and keep something they released before it. Maybe I am mistaken but it just seems a little backwards.
post #16 of 108
I hope there's a new iPod Nano with a camera introed at this event.
Just sayin'.
post #17 of 108
If the 5C has the same specs as the current 5 then I can see just having 5S and 5C. With the 5S having some tech the 5C doesn't have to justify a higher price tag.
post #18 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why? They haven't changed the iPod classic in five years. The 4S can serve for those who think the Dock Connector is super neat-o keen and/or don't want to buy new speakers.

I don't like the idea of keeping the 4S around, but at least it can be justified.
Well first, they had no trouble updating the iPad 3 with lightning mid-product run.

Second, I doubt the iPod Classic will make the cut in its current form.

Third, if they continue to make the 4S that's four iPhones that will be in production, assuming the iPhone 5 remains as a lower price option. Even if the 5c replaces the 5, that's still three different form factors instead of the usual two.

Fourth, the screen size is at least an important standard to Apple as the lightening connector. It's hard to imagine they would maintain the legacy smaller screen size with the 5c hitting the market, assuming it has the 4-inch screen. I truly wish Apple would offer a smaller screen size in an iPhone, but I'm not going to continue wasting fuel on burning that particular flame ...

But back to the iPod Classic for a moment ... It's hard for me to see them dropping this staple until the flash ram prices drop enough to make such a high capacity storage device practical. And it shouldn't take much since the Classic is mostly just a hard drive with a basic interface that shouldn't change much. At which time it gets a redesign. How far in the future that change would come will determine whether they update the Classic's dock connector. After that, it's just a matter of time until the iPhone and iPod Touch RAM prices make the Classic obsolete.
post #19 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachLach View Post

So let me get this straight. They will not keep the iPhone 5 but will keep the iPhone 4S instead? Why? Older tech, 30 pin, worse screen, etc. they just released the iPhone 5 they are not going to discontinue that and keep something they released before it. Maybe I am mistaken but it just seems a little backwards.

If the report is accurate in the first place the source explains it as the 5C and current 5 generally being the same internals anyway making the iPhone 5 redundant. At least I think that's what's claimed/
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post #20 of 108

Bad news if true.  The only reason for doing it would be because they can't hit the price point with iPhone 5c.  

post #21 of 108
Doubtful of this. Even the iPod touch 5 has a larger screen and lightning connector.

Maybe the 4s will be retooled like the iPad 4 was, including the plastic casing, as a low end option?
post #22 of 108
Ming-Chi Kuo's past good track record is on the line lately! (This and the home button protruding outward.)

Maybe the 4S will stick around just for certain international markets? Hard to imagine much need for it in the subsidy-happy US.
post #23 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...
Lite
Rendering of "iPhone 5C" based on reportedly leaked schematics.
...

 

This rendering is wrong, or at least not really based on the leaks we've seen.  

 

As nice as it looks, it shows metal buttons when the leaks have said they would be plastic, and the black model doesn't exist at all (according to leaks) although it's absence is puzzling considering the poor selection of colours that has leaked.  

post #24 of 108
9 to 5 Mac says the 4s will continue "until the end of 2013 per Kuo."

That's a pretty big difference but not sure what it means...
post #25 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

A plastic-bodied phone will be more expensive than a metal-bodied one? This makes no senseat all.

A case alone doth not an iPhone make.

The case is only a small fraction of the cost of making a phone - a couple dollars AT MOST. The cost is determined by all the other components. Furthermore, some plastic cases might cost more than some metal cases. So, yes, a phone with a high quality plastic case and top end components would cost more than a phone with a cheap, stamped metal case and low end components.

And, of course, the selling price is more dependent on the market positioning than the manufacturing cost, anyway. I've had several products where our high priced premium product was actually less expensive to produce than the low-end, generic product. There are lots of reasons why you might charge a premium price for a product that's cheap to make - or vice versa.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #26 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

A plastic-bodied phone will be more expensive than a metal-bodied one? This makes no senseat all.

4S is mostly glass with a metal frame/antenna

post #27 of 108
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
A plastic-bodied phone will be more expensive than a metal-bodied one? This makes no senseat all.

 

Why, when it's newer hardware?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #28 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Lets see if the wider media picks up on this story like they do IDC or Strategy Analytics press releases.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57599085-37/apple-snagged-20-percent-of-its-iphone-buyers-from-android/

 

great find.

 

just proves that Samsung gets alot of their sales from people who get fooled by their commericals (first time smartphone buyers)

post #29 of 108
This makes perfect sense.
Ever since the introduction of the fourth generation iPad I had a very strong suspicion that iPhone 5 would have a similar life cycle to the third generation iPad.
The reason is the same: cost.

Just like Apple could not afford to sell a Retina iPad for $400, they cannot afford to sell an aluminium iPhone for $550.
So just like they kept iPad 2 at $400 it makes sense to keep iPhone 4S and push it down to $450.
If the rumours of iPhone 5C coming with an A6 chip are true then the iPhone lineup makes perfect sense and keeps, price, features and desirability in strict order.

It may not make sense to you because it means you won't be getting the great iPhone deal you were hoping to get, but it sure makes sense to Apple.
To everyone that claims Apple sees selling products with the old connector as a problem: LOL, Apple is nowhere near as OCD as you are.
post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

great find.

just proves that Samsung gets alot of their sales from people who get fooled by their commericals (first time smartphone buyers)
That of course assumes that the analytics are correct. Many here have a stated distrust of surveys and analysts.
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post #31 of 108

This would make sense ONLY if iPhone 6 is coming out much sooner then we think. Assuming October be this cycle Shipping date. And they push the next cycle to May/June or even April / May. Which means the Top Model 5S becomes the Middle Model and 5C becomes the entry point.

post #32 of 108
The 4S isn't cheap to produce because of it shell.
This rumor is very unlikely.
post #33 of 108
His pricing scheme makes no sense. If the 5S is $649 off contract, then the 5C will be $549 and the 4S $449
post #34 of 108
Originally Posted by windwalker View Post
Just like Apple could not afford to sell a Retina iPad for $400…

 

They didn't sell the regular one for $400, nor have they tried to sell the retina for $400. How do you know they "can't"?


they cannot afford to sell an aluminium iPhone for $550.

 

Again, how do you think you know this? It's obviously wrong, as they've done it for a few years now.


To everyone that claims Apple sees selling products with the old connector as a problem: LOL, Apple is nowhere near as OCD as you are.

 

Steve Jobs was. Strange that you've forgotten in only two years.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #35 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Who says they're getting the 4S, anyway? They don't have it now and everyone else does.

Uh, they sell the 4, 4S, and iPhone 5 in China.  I believe AI even posts when they go on sale here.

post #36 of 108
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post
Uh, they sell the 4, 4S, and iPhone 5 in China.

 

China Mobile does? That was his point.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #37 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

The 4S isn't cheap to produce because of it shell.
This rumor is very unlikely.

The cost of the shell is peanuts compared to the total cost of the phone. If everything else in the 4S is cheap (and it would be since it's 2 year old technology), then the phone would be cheap, even if the case costs a dollar or two more than the 5C.
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post #38 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post


And more importantly they wouldn't keep 4S coz developers then need to cater apps for the 3.5" screen aswell as the 4" one.
Makes no sense.

There offering should be

5S - High End
5 - Mid range
5C - Low end

Or prolly shuffle between 5 and 5C for mid / low.

 

iphone 5 is not mid range even with lower prices, still too expensive.   The problem with American here is all they see are subsidize prices, look at the retail price. Anything above $500 is high end in rich countries.

 

I dont like them keeping the 4s around unless they really lower the price on it, something like $300 to $350. I dont mind them keeping a 3.5" screen if they change the plug and put it in a single color plastic shell and price it at $300. Then they would have an emerging market phone.


Edited by herbapou - 8/19/13 at 6:51am
post #39 of 108
That's stupid. If anything, it'll replace the 4S or be an off contract iPhone (below the 4S).
post #40 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Why? They haven't changed the iPod classic in five years. The 4S can serve for those who think the Dock Connector is super neat-o keen and/or don't want to buy new speakers.

 

I don't like the idea of keeping the 4S around, but at least it can be justified.

 

No it can't. This report is wrong, or at least out of context.

 

The 5 will simply stop production sooner than the 4S will, because of the complexity of distribution channels. There are some low-priority outlets worldwide that simply will not be able to get iPhone 5C immediately due to inventory constraints. These outlets all carry the 4S, and will need to carry it through the end of year.

 

Imagine Apple stops shipping these smaller outlets 4S inventory, but does not yet ship them 5C to replace it because they don't have enough.

 

People, including bloggers for every Apple website, seem to not understand business in the least.

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