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'iPhone 5C' expected to replace iPhone 5, while Apple's iPhone 4S will live on - Page 2

post #41 of 108

I can't take it. I really can't stand reading how so many of you take an article, believe it to be the TRUTH, and then start shaping reality (and common sense for that matter) to fit it.

 

When something doesn't fit, throw it out. The 4S will not be produced beyond 2013. You might be able to buy it in a mini mall in Wyoming until December, but that does not have any significance other than filling out inventory channels so that outlets don't dry up amidst the big change that's coming.

 

As for Apple stores and most carrier stores....you will not be able to purchase an iPhone other than 5S or 5C beyond the September 22nd launch date.

post #42 of 108
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
I can't take it. I really can't stand reading how so many of you take an article, believe it to be the TRUTH, and then start shaping reality (and common sense for that matter) to fit it.

 

Totally agreed.


As for Apple stores and most carrier stores....you will not be able to purchase an iPhone other than 5S or 5C beyond the September 22nd launch date.

 

And then you go and do this, leaving me wondering.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #43 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They didn't sell the regular one for $400, nor have they tried to sell the retina for $400. How do you know they "can't"?

What are you talking about? What is "the regular one"?
What are you trying to say with Apple "not trying" to sell a Retina iPad for $400?
They simply didn't. It's pointless to argue about why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Again, how do you think you know this? It's obviously wrong, as they've done it for a few years now.

Yes, with plastic and with glass iPhones, but not aluminium ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Steve Jobs was. Strange that you've forgotten in only two years.
Not about old products he wasn't.
He didn't lose any sleep about low end customers buying older and slightly outdated products at a discount from their introductory price and neither should anyone else.
post #44 of 108
Originally Posted by windwalker View Post
What are you talking about? What is "the regular one"?

 

The non-retina iPad…


What are you trying to say with Apple "not trying" to sell a Retina iPad for $400?

 

Have they priced it at $400? Did it not sell? Did it lose them money? They haven't done anything of the sort.


They simply didn't. It's pointless to argue about why.

 

And yet you claim to know why. I just thought that was interesting.


Yes, with plastic and with glass iPhones, but not aluminium ones.

 

The iPhone 5C doesn't have an aluminum back. Do you think it does? Yes, they've done it with aluminum iPhones. The iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 are made from aluminum, too.


Not about old products he wasn't.

 

So you're saying Steve Jobs made no attempt to sell a cohesive lineup of products that met with his vision? That sounds contradictory to all history.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #45 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

If they are going to continue the 4S, surely it must at least have the connector upgraded?

Maybe that's why they want to keep it around.   Doesn't the iPad 2 have a 30 pin connector as well?

post #46 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The non-retina iPad…
That would be iPad 2. Or iPad mini. There is no other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Have they priced it at $400? Did it not sell? Did it lose them money? They haven't done anything of the sort.
Who cares? It doesn't matter. It only matters that they didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And yet you claim to know why. I just thought that was interesting.
I didn't. You just focused on that during your selective reading while trying to find points to pick and argue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The iPhone 5C doesn't have an aluminum back. Do you think it does? Yes, they've done it with aluminum iPhones. The iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 are made from aluminum, too.
Are you drunk?
No aluminium iPhone has ever been sold as the year old cheap model.
Just like no Retina iPad has ever been sold as the year old cheap model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So you're saying Steve Jobs made no attempt to sell a cohesive lineup of products that met with his vision? That sounds contradictory to all history.
No, but I am saying that you seem to be incapable of building a sentence without the use of a strawman fallacy.
post #47 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

That of course assumes that the analytics are correct. Many here have a stated distrust of surveys and analysts.
I'm not arguing whether its accurate or not, just fairness in reporting.
post #48 of 108
Completely don't believe this, but as an iPhone 5 owner as well as the iPad 3rd gen?

Would seem to fit my recent track record. 😉
post #49 of 108

My 64Gb 4S is an excellent phone- it has served me extremely well the last 2 years. It is both fast and extremely well made.

 

The 5S will have shortages because all of us who never upgraded to the 5 will be doing so. It will be huge.

 
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post #50 of 108
Originally Posted by windwalker View Post
That would be iPad 2. Or iPad mini. There is no other.

 

Yeah, there's one more. Note that it and the 2 were sold for more than $400, too.


Who cares? It doesn't matter. It only matters that they didn't.

 

ONCE AGAIN: you seem to think you know WHY they didn't, which I find interesting, given that 1. You also "don't care" and 2. You don't seem to want to explain how you know that.


I didn't.
Originally Posted by wind walker View Post
Apple could not afford to sell a Retina iPad for $400, they cannot afford to sell an aluminum iPhone for $550.
 

woody_looking_around_while_buzz_chokes.gif


No aluminium iPhone has ever been sold as the year old cheap model.

 

iPhone 4. iPhone 4S.


Just like no Retina iPad has ever been sold as the year old cheap model.

 

Yet.


No, but I am saying that you seem to be incapable of building a sentence without the use of a strawman fallacy.

 

Might want to read up on what a strawman is. Asking for someone to explain how they know something ≠ strawman.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #51 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Totally agreed.

 

And then you go and do this, leaving me wondering.

 

And when it becomes reality, will you still be wondering?

 

I don't understand one bit of the confusion. Apple has a model in place that allows for 3 iPhones at 3 price points. The coming refresh is a bit more expansive this time, as Apple (for the first time ever) plans to launch more than one brand new iPhone, to fill all 3 price points.

 

$199 iPhone 5S 16 GB

$99 iPhone 5C 16 GB

$0 Phone 5C 8 GB

 

There's no room for anything else. The 5 has NO place in the world after this launch, and the 4 and 4S are seeing a higher quality, newer, and cheaper phone replace them.

 

This article is simply referring to the plans Apple has to continue producing the 4S through the end of 2013 to satisfied general iPhone demand. There simply won't be enough 5C to go around, you know that to be a fact. This is a big turn around that Apple is planning, and it won't be possible to just flip the switch over night. The 4S will have to remain sellable for some distributors so that they have ANYTHING to sell at all. Joe Shmoe's Radio Shack won't be getting inventory right of the bat, as per usual. They likewise can't have nothing to sell.

post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


The cost of the shell is peanuts compared to the total cost of the phone. If everything else in the 4S is cheap (and it would be since it's 2 year old technology), then the phone would be cheap, even if the case costs a dollar or two more than the 5C.

 

The cost of the shell is something Apple wants to get rid of, hence the iPhone5C. So the cost is real and big enough to act upon. If Apples advertising is to be believed (and why not) the part is 'machined' into existence and this is time consuming and thus costly.
The iPhone5C is probably almost as cheap as the iPhone4S because it uses last years components (if rumors are to be believed) and components for the iPhone4S will be more expensive in the future because no one will make them. 
This makes it very likely that the iPhone4S is discontinued, but as someone mentioned, it could be that it is continued as long as it takes to fill the gap with 5C's. 
post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm not arguing whether its accurate or not, just fairness in reporting.

Oh, well I agree with that. FWIW I found several references to the report already this morning across various websites.

EDIT: and another Forbes article today quotes Juniper Research. It claims that "the smartphone market is moving away from the ultra-premium to the ultra-economy." and that several competing OS's are set to impact iOS and Android share in developing countries.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/08/19/in-emerging-markets-new-competition-for-apple-android/

Perhaps Apple agrees and already sees the writing on the wall. Price is becoming more important than premium build?
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/19/13 at 8:06am
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post #54 of 108
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

And when it becomes reality, will you still be wondering?

 

Yes. Why would you complain about people taking rumor as fact and then immediately do the same?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #55 of 108
I can see some logic in this story. The "5C" could sensibly gain from sharing components and internal design with the "5S" (same screen, same radios etc) for economies of scale, next year as well as this. It is also the case that iPhone family's LTE offering is very weak* and that's becoming a headline feature for a top-end phone: would it be sensible to produce a new "5C" phone without LTE (not least, would it be a sensible use of scarce design effort)? The "5S" can retain its superiority through construction and, assuming it happens, the fingerprint sensor.

Once the "5C" has big screen and LTE, it inevitably looks superior to a 4S. So the rumoured ranking follows. I still don't follow the lack of Lightning though; I doubt it's worth re-engineering the 4S to include it so perhaps it will be aimed at specific markets (maybe where the lack of LTE might not be an issue either?)?

*Last year's iPhone 5 was the only iPhone that could claim LTE in its headline specification but the networks were very immature so it didn't matter too much in the real world. Now it's getting more serious, people will notice an absence of LTE in the phone. At least on this side of the pond, they will also notice that iPhone 5's LTE is in the wrong radio bands so reusing iPhone 5 as a low-range offering is not an attractive option - hence strengthening the argument for common radios in "5S" and "5C".

OS X and iOS user

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OS X and iOS user

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post #56 of 108
I won't be buying any of them in the future. I am tired of having to buy new accessories such as, docking speakers, alarm clocks, and just regular sync cables everytime Apple wants to make money. I already had to repurchase everything when they switched from the 30-pin dock in Firewire to 30-pin USB only, not doing it again with the lightning. And not to mention how far behind in technology they are lagging, the 5S is still only going to have a 4" screen, NFC doesn't sound like it. Sticking with the 30-pin dock connector would never have been a deal breaker for me and I'm guessing not for the millions of other people who had tons of them lying around their homes, cars, offices, and bags. Not keeping up with actual technology that matters is a deal breaker.
post #57 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

And when it becomes reality, will you still be wondering?

I don't understand one bit of the confusion. Apple has a model in place that allows for 3 iPhones at 3 price points. The coming refresh is a bit more expansive this time, as Apple (for the first time ever) plans to launch more than one brand new iPhone, to fill all 3 price points.

$199 iPhone 5S 16 GB
$99 iPhone 5C 16 GB
$0 Phone 5C 8 GB

There's no room for anything else. The 5 has NO place in the world after this launch, and the 4 and 4S are seeing a higher quality, newer, and cheaper phone replace them.
I don't think they will release two versions of this 5C.

5S 128/64/32, 5 w 16, 5C w 8 GB ( if its replacing the 4S)
post #58 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Riggs View Post

I won't be buying any of them in the future. I am tired of having to buy new accessories such as, docking speakers, alarm clocks, and just regular sync cables everytime Apple wants to make money. I already had to repurchase everything when they switched from the 30-pin dock in Firewire to 30-pin USB only, not doing it again with the lightning. And not to mention how far behind in technology they are lagging, the 5S is still only going to have a 4" screen, NFC doesn't sound like it. Sticking with the 30-pin dock connector would never have been a deal breaker for me and I'm guessing not for the millions of other people who had tons of them lying around their homes, cars, offices, and bags. Not keeping up with actual technology that matters is a deal breaker.

Cry me a river. If it's "actual tech" that matters, get an Android with its half assed implementation and spec list bragging rights. Oh and you'll have to get all new comparable android accessories to match.

And if the last change was FireWire to USB, why'd you have to replace your clock, speakers, etc. FireWire is only on the Mac in the first place.
post #59 of 108
Originally Posted by Cullen Riggs View Post
I am tired of having to buy new accessories such as, docking speakers, alarm clocks, and just regular sync cables everytime Apple wants to make money. 

 

Oh, no! You have to buy new things once every twelve years! What a nightmare!

 

It has nothing to do with money. Shut up and go away, you worthless troll.


And not to mention how far behind in technology they are lagging…

 

How pathetic can you people get?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

That of course assumes that the analytics are correct. Many here have a stated distrust of surveys and analysts.

Analysts' analysis is speculative conjecture

Surveys are historical fact, but the sample population determines the legitimacy of the findings

I don't think anyone here is comparing this analysis with that survey and finding them equally probable. Calling the survey "analytics" does not reinforce your point, it makes you look foolish.
post #61 of 108
5S is just the stop gap 2012 looking phone to the all new 2014 iphone6 that people are really wanting. The 5C with its new fresh look will be the best selling of the 2013 models.
post #62 of 108

5S 699          vs  5s 699

5   599               5   499

5c 499               5c 399

4s 399

4   249

 

If they keep the 4s, then there's no reason for not keeping the 4. if they eliminate those 2 models, the 5c most likely will bring the price to iphone 4 unlocked levels, with 4s internals, most likely another process shrink (22mm) a5, in preparation for the iwatch, similar to what was done with the ipad 2.


Edited by pedromartins - 8/19/13 at 9:05am
post #63 of 108
The S models are just the guinea pig technology testers for what will be implemented into the all new designed iphones.
post #64 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

FWIW I found several references to the report already this morning across various websites.

EDIT: and another Forbes article today quotes Juniper Research. It claims that "the smartphone market is moving away from the ultra-premium to the ultra-economy." and that several competing OS's are set to impact iOS and Android share in developing countries.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/08/19/in-emerging-markets-new-competition-for-apple-android/

Perhaps Apple agrees and already sees the writing on the wall. Price is becoming more important than premium build?

What are you talking about?

For some people, price has always been more important. They bought crap Android phones last time. Nokias before that. They buy crap Chinese phones. They will continue to do so, irrespective of who writes the software on their phone.

Alternatively, they might upgrade to a "premium build" phone. The likelihood someone will downgrade is very small, at most they may put off an upgrade.

iOS (and "premium build" Android phones) have crap market share in emerging markets. More crap cheap phones aren't going to make any impact except for on crap cheap Android phones. And Blackberry. Because any disruption in any market hurts Blackberry.

"The writing on the wall" spells DOOM for Google, not Apple. Apple can only increase their pitiful sales in these markets. Google can only lose "sales".
post #65 of 108
I hope this is wrong and they finally dump the 4S. Two lines - 5C & 5S both coming with variable flash memory levels to cover the price range from what was the iPhone 4 to iPhone 5, and be done with it. It seems to be the most logical thing to do, why keep around obsolete long in the tooth technology? (iPod Classic excepted)
post #66 of 108

Yep, makes sense. Always about this time before a release the rumors and predictions and leaks get so 'convulted' that even Jony Ive couldn't make them simple.

post #67 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

I hope this is wrong and they finally dump the 4S. Two lines - 5C & 5S both coming with variable flash memory levels to cover the price range from what was the iPhone 4 to iPhone 5, and be done with it. It seems to be the most logical thing to do, why keep around obsolete long in the tooth technology? (iPod Classic excepted)

Excluded You Mean?

post #68 of 108
Can't wait until 2014, lets face it the 5 series line of iphones are just plain goofy looking, the only reason they made the screen taller was to accommodate a taller battery to power LTE not because people wanted a bigger screen. Iphone6 will bed the true all new iphone6 with reduced bezel & an on screen home button much like the one seen on the ios car screens. Looking forward to a more proportional iphone6 in 2014!
post #69 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

Analysts' analysis is speculative conjecture

Surveys are historical fact, but the sample population determines the legitimacy of the findings

I don't think anyone here is comparing this analysis with that survey and finding them equally probable. Calling the survey "analytics" does not reinforce your point, it makes you look foolish.

Perhaps you aren't considering that surveys can be manipulated (or just poorly planned) and skew results? I would think that both the questions to be asked and resultant data are analyzed. What that analysis can help determine is how valid the survey is.

So I don't think applying analytics to survey creation and results is foolish at all. Companies like this make a business of it:
http://www.surveyanalytics.com/
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/19/13 at 10:21am
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post #70 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

The cost of the shell is something Apple wants to get rid of, hence the iPhone5C. So the cost is real and big enough to act upon. If Apples advertising is to be believed (and why not) the part is 'machined' into existence and this is time consuming and thus costly.
The iPhone5C is probably almost as cheap as the iPhone4S because it uses last years components (if rumors are to be believed) and components for the iPhone4S will be more expensive in the future because no one will make them.
This makes it very likely that the iPhone4S is discontinued, but as someone mentioned, it could be that it is continued as long as it takes to fill the gap with 5C's.

You could have just said that you don't have any idea what you're talking about and you're just pulling things out of your butt and saved a lot of words.

The cost of the case is only a small percentage of the cost of the phone. Yes, it's machined, but that doesn't mean that it costs more than a few dollars. It's also clear that a device with expensive internals and a cheap case could be more expensive than one with cheap internals an an expensive case. That's all I was saying - which refutes the person who claimed that a phone with a plastic case couldn't be more expensive than one with a metal case.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #71 of 108
This sounds ridiculous. They definitely need to kill off the 4S, so they can unify screen sizes and connectors. Why the hell would they want to sell a single 3.5", 30 pin connector device for another year? ALL their current phones need to be discontinued, replaced with the 5C and the 5S.
post #72 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 are made from aluminum, too.

I thought the exterior metal band around the 4 and 4S was stainless steel.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #73 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

This sounds ridiculous. They definitely need to kill off the 4S, so they can unify screen sizes and connectors. Why the hell would they want to sell a single 3.5", 30 pin connector device for another year? ALL their current phones need to be discontinued, replaced with the 5C and the 5S.

Maybe the cost is lower. But I agree that it's unusual since they already moved the base model iPod Touch to the 4" screen. But the 4S is still a terrific product.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #74 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

"The writing on the wall" spells DOOM for Google, not Apple. Apple can only increase their pitiful sales in these markets. Google can only lose "sales".

You mean "activations."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #75 of 108
It makes sense to me.

Why would they keep the 5 if it has the same internals and the 5c? People would just buy the 5 which is a "premium" yet older phone instead of buying the 5c.

And then you have the 4s that does not compete with either 5s or 5c ad fills the role of cheap iPhone without doing anything really.

The 30 min connector argument is a no issue for me.
post #76 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

What are you talking about?

I was talking about the Forbes article and the claim made by Juniper Research.
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post #77 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post

It makes sense to me.

Why would they keep the 5 if it has the same internals and the 5c? People would just buy the 5 which is a "premium" yet older phone instead of buying the 5c.

And then you have the 4s that does not compete with either 5s or 5c ad fills the role of cheap iPhone without doing anything really.

The 30 min connector argument is a no issue for me.

This is exactly right. It has to be that way. The 5C replaces the 5, as functionally it is the same exact phone. And the 5S is the latest and greatest. And if the the 5C is actually cheaper than the iPhone 4 & 4S to make/sell at an 8 GB capacity, they have no need of keeping either of those two phones, as they can comfortably sell an 8 & 16 GB iPhone 5C at $0 and $99, subsidized. The carriers will love it too, because if the full price is $449 to $499, they can subside the hell out of it, easily. The carriers absorbs all the real savings on a lower cost iPhone, because the consumer is still paying $0 or $99 as before. Unless of course you buy it off contract at full price...then you are the one doing better than with the 4 or 4S. But, everyone does better just because its a 5C.

 

And of course, the last two major devices Apple sells with 30 pin connectors would be history. Not counting the more minor iPods of course.

post #78 of 108
This article's headline is misleading. Since it doesnt mention the 5S, it seems to imply that the 5C will be the flagship. The article helps to clarify this, but the headline is still misleading.
post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Uh, they sell the 4, 4S, and iPhone 5 in China.  I believe AI even posts when they go on sale here.

 

Your post says you're in St. Louis, so "here" obviously doesn't mean China. That leaves me having no idea what you mean when you talk about them going on sale here.

post #80 of 108

Here's my uninformed prediction:

 

iPhone 4S free w/ contract

 

iPhone 5C - 16GB $99 w/ contract (White, Red, Yellow, Black, Blue)

 

iPhone 5S - 32GB $199 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)

iPhone 5S - 64GB $299 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)

iPhone 5S - 128GB $399 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)

 

Keeping the 4S w/ the old connector makes sense from a "do-right by your customer" perspective.  I don't think it is productive toward moving people to the lightning connector, but for those who have many expensive 30-pin accessories who drag their feet and would complain that Apple switched the connector technology without offering them the old technology, this makes sense in that way.  Would Apple recommend buying the 4S? No.  Do they gain the higher ground and avoid consumer complaints and regulator interference?  Yup.

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  • 'iPhone 5C' expected to replace iPhone 5, while Apple's iPhone 4S will live on
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