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Mac sales on pace to slide 5% in Apple's September quarter

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 
As the larger PC market continues to struggle, Apple, too, has seen its Mac sales decline year over year ? a trend that is on pace to continue in the current September quarter.

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The latest data on domestic Mac sales from the NPD Group, detailed on Monday by analyst Gene Munster of Piper Jaffray, suggests that Apple saw flat growth in the month of July, which is the first month of the company's September quarter.

Munster characterized the data as "neutral to slight positive" news for Apple. He has forecast that total worldwide Mac sales for the quarter will be down 5 percent year over year.

Apple sold 3.8 million Macs last quarter, a total that was 200,000 off from the 4 million the company sold in the same period of 2012.

As for the September quarter of 2012, Apple sold 4.9 million Macs during the three-month frame last year, which was then a year over year increase of 9 percent. If Munster's prediction for 2013 proves accurate, Mac sales in the current September quarter would be around 4.65 million.

Mac sales ??and the PC market as a whole ? are being cannibalized by tablets, and in particular by Apple's market leading iPad lineup.

iPad cannibalization and an oversupply of MacBooks caught Apple executives by surprise earlier this year, AppleInsider revealed earlier this month. That situation is said to have caused the company to adopt a more conservative approach with channel inventory, keeping stock low to avoid another oversupply.

The Mac also plays a relatively minor role in Apple's total business, with the lion's share of revenue now coming from the iPhone and iPad.

Even more diminished is the iPod, as NPD's latest data shows domestic sales of Apple's portable media players down 41 percent year over year in the month of July. Munster has forecast that iPod sales will be down 20 percent year over year in the September quarter.
post #2 of 60

Not if they get their updates out, it won't.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #3 of 60

All Macs need retina fast.

Where's the next big thing?

Everything is getting stale.

 
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post #4 of 60
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
All Macs need retina fast.

Where's the next big thing?

Everything is getting stale.

 

lol.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #5 of 60
Where are the updates Apple? One does not live on MacBook Airs alone.
post #6 of 60
I'd be glad to help apple out with that slide if they release the update to the minis 1wink.gif
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post #7 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

All Macs need retina fast.

Where's the next big thing?

Everything is getting stale.


Yeah right.. so "stale" they are still making more revenue on "PC" sales than the next competitor.

wutever.


Edited by sflocal - 8/19/13 at 2:07pm
post #8 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

All Macs need retina fast.

Where's the next big thing?

Everything is getting stale.

 

I had to check your name because for a moment I thought you were this site's resident dark cloud of doom.  1wink.gif

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post #9 of 60

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

 

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

post #10 of 60

I think the problem is that the old Macbooks just aren't breaking down! 

 

I normally replace mine when it dies or becomes obsolete. My last macbook just keeps working though, I'm tempted to throw it at a wall just so I have an excuse to buy a new one. It has travelled twice round the world, 13 countries and 40,000 miles by land. Not bad really.

post #11 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

 

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

 

Why does it need a higher resolution screen? I have one and it's a great computer. Whatever Apple has, that's what you'll buy. If you just need "any computer", feel free to buy a Dell... I hear they are practically giving those things away.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

 

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

 

I am not having an iMac, but two Thunderbolt Displays, which are, for most purposes identical. No idea what the problem with the resolution should be. Text looks perfectly smooth, even when zooming in to insane levels. I also have the 15" Retina MBP, and the improvements on the TB-Display are existent, but certainly not earth-shattering (at "normal" viewing distances for each device).

 

I can understand people asking for higher resolutions on the MacBook Air models or the iPad Mini, but the iMac? Also do not see what the form factor has to do with it. The rMBP's panel is not thicker than the one on the "classic" MBP despite being Retina.

 

The next resolution improvement to the 27" iMac and displays will either be a quadrupling of pixels (for which there is not even a GPU yet), or plain 4K, which currently would require a GPU that is not suitable for either iMacs or Laptops, if you require somewhat acceptable performance.

post #13 of 60
Quote:

Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

They have put too much money in the form factor.

 

I disagree. I think the idea of making the edges thinner while losing a useful feature, the optical drive, was a great idea. Add to that, putting all the ports and the card reader on the back of the machine was inspired. It will take years for Apple's competition to adopt these ideas.

 

"But what about the Mac Mini" you say? Simple, make it even smaller and reduce its performance where possible. Oh, and don't neglect the awful keyboard and mouse, I am sure there are many other ways to make them even cooler looking while reducing their functionality.

 

I see a bright future ahead for Apple's computer offering if they just put in the work to accomplish some of these suggestions.

 

-kpluck

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post #14 of 60

The resolution on the 27" iMac is just fine. 2560x1440 is awesome and images and video look great. Retina is not that big a thing for me, as I am happy with having more screen real-estate as-is. The default resolution on a Retina 15" MacBook Pro only gives you as much screen real estate as a 1440x900 display, which sucks.

 

I do wish Apple would bring back the 17" MacBook Pro.

 

And yes, when these new Mac Pros are selling like hotcakes there will be no room to complain about Mac sales. The movie theaters already brainwashing the masses with loads of hype and teaser sensation. Every 12 year old kid going back to school is gonna want one....and won't stop till they get one!

post #15 of 60
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

They have put too much money in the form factor.

 

Do you have any clue WHY they've made it the shape it is? 


The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.

 

Obviously not enough to matter. Why would you even say that?


Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

 

A larger case wouldn't make it cheaper. Stop trying to speak for "most people" when the claim is the opposite of reality.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #16 of 60

5% does not say much without knowing the figure for the overall PC market. Looking at our large clients, we have seen little besides replacements and some servers for the last three months. Servers seem to be picking up in Europe though, as quite a few companies are cancelling cloud plans thanks to the NSA hubbub.

post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

Wait a minute....you think the form factor is expensive to manufacture but making the displays retina wouldn't be? You want a 27" retina iMac for cheaper than the current iMac. lol.gif
post #18 of 60

Which is why they need to stop screwing around, and release the Haswell updates already. This is just beyond ridiculous at this point. Mavericks is perfectly stable, stop stalling and release them. Not every product needs fanfare and a huge event for Pete's sake.

post #19 of 60
I a
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I think the problem is that the old Macbooks just aren't breaking down! 

I normally replace mine when it dies or becomes obsolete. My last macbook just keeps working though, I'm tempted to throw it at a wall just so I have an excuse to buy a new one. It has travelled twice round the world, 13 countries and 40,000 miles by land. Not bad really.

I agree. My MacBook is over seven years old now and is finally getting to the point where I wlill likely replace it. The typical upgrade period used to be about three years but since even an old pc is fast enough for most tasks, why upgrade?
post #20 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

I disagree. I think the idea of making the edges thinner while losing a useful feature, the optical drive, was a great idea. Add to that, putting all the ports and the card reader on the back of the machine was inspired. It will take years for Apple's competition to adopt these ideas.

All the ports on the back of the iMac? Hello? They've had that since day one of the G4. They only moved the card reader- which isn't a big deal at all.
What do you use more- the card reader now, or the USB port back when you had to plug in your iPhone to sync? It didn't seem to bother anyone then.

I'm a Blu-ray fan. Huge one. But I realize in the minority- and I'm all for the optical going bye bye. Get a $20 Samsung external from amazon and put it in a drawer for the once every 3 yrs you'll use it.

Go complain elsewhere- it's annoying here.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #21 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

 

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

 

I never understood Apple's anorexic obsession! As for me, I look at the front of my iMac and never, ever, see how thin it is. If they can continue this without sacrificing features, then I don't care, but there comes a point where it does not make sense. 

post #22 of 60
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post
Which is why they need to stop screwing around, and release the Haswell updates already.

 

Why should Apple react to what idiots tell them to do?


Mavericks is perfectly stable…

 

Er… 


…stop stalling and release them.

 

They're not waiting for Mavericks. When has Apple ever waited for software to release hardware?


 Not every product needs fanfare and a huge event for Pete's sake.

 

Nor do they intend to give them one. They're waiting for Thunderbolt 2.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #23 of 60

Might have something to do with the tragic state of Mac OS X since the iPad gained popularity. Its slow, painfully slow, unintutive thanks to porting over UI features from iOS such as scrollbars which dont appear unless you mouse over where they 'might be'. I could go on.

 

I used to think the Mac was great. Now wont touch one.

post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I never understood Apple's anorexic obsession! As for me, I look at the front of my iMac and never, ever, see how thin it is. If they can continue this without sacrificing features, then I don't care, but there comes a point where it does not make sense. 

It's not simply aesthetics. Yes, it's a huge aspect- but the new 27" iMacs run substantially cooler than its predecessor. That was one complaint I had on my office 27" from 2010- even just being. And running simple apps a FileMaker, safari, mail, calendar- it would cook an egg. As would my iMac at home. The new ones run significantly cooler to the touch. That is a great thing about the design of the fan system. But people overlook that just to complain about something that is much less significant (like an optical drive) than heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Might have something to do with the tragic state of Mac OS X since the iPad gained popularity. Its slow, painfully slow, unintutive thanks to porting over UI features from iOS such as scrollbars which dont appear unless you mouse over where they 'might be'. I could go on.

I used to think the Mac was great. Now wont touch one.

So you use windows 8? Or 7? Or do you just not use a desktop/laptop because the iPad covers any tasks you need to do?


This thread is very annoying to read. Could Mac sales be down because, I don't know, they aren't needed as much anymore? In fact, I'm selling our rMBP tonight because we never use it- ever.
You people are flat out obnoxious.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #25 of 60
Declining is the global trend and 5% is excellent in comparison to -20 to -30 for the entire market. Apple is one of the best performing ones beside Lenovo.
post #26 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


It's not simply aesthetics. Yes, it's a huge aspect- but the new 27" iMacs run substantially cooler than its predecessor. That was one complaint I had on my office 27" from 2010- even just being. And running simple apps a FileMaker, safari, mail, calendar- it would cook an egg. As would my iMac at home. The new ones run significantly cooler to the touch. That is a great thing about the design of the fan system. But people overlook that just to complain about something that is much less significant (like an optical drive) than heat.

 

A thinner product is not in and of itself aesthetic, and it could be argued that beauty not seen is beauty not appreciated. However as that is the nature of one's opinion, we'll put that aside.

 

Cooler would not be due to a thinner enclosure but the airflow and fan design, but more importantly, the CPU and whether it runs cooler, ironically in part due to its shrinking size. 

 

Again, I don't really care until such point that features suffer. One could argue the speakers have. I simply don't understand the anorexic obsession. 


Edited by Richard Getz - 8/19/13 at 3:29pm
post #27 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Might have something to do with the tragic state of Mac OS X since the iPad gained popularity. Its slow, painfully slow, unintutive thanks to porting over UI features from iOS such as scrollbars which dont appear unless you mouse over where they 'might be'. I could go on.

 

Huh? 10.7 through 10.9 beta are, by any means, the fastest OS X releases. The scrollbar behaviour can be set as you wish in System Preferences and absolutely everything can be set to behave just as it was in 10.0 (no idea why anybody would want that, but what do I know), including one-button mousing, no gestures etc. I could go on...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Which is why they need to stop screwing around, and release the Haswell updates already. This is just beyond ridiculous at this point. Mavericks is perfectly stable, stop stalling and release them. Not every product needs fanfare and a huge event for Pete's sake.

 

So, you claim internal knowledge of the current yield of highest-end Haswell CPUs (keep in mind that other PC makers are selling low-end and mid-tier chips almost exclusively) and Thunderbolt-2 capable chipsets? Or do you just insist on Apple repeating the 2011 débâcle of announcing a new iMac and then not shipping it for many months?

post #28 of 60
Why is it that every time we get some analyst data about Mac sales declining people come up with all these stories about why when really it's pretty plain to see (and is visible in the Windows market as well)? Mobile products are cannibalizing laptops and in some cases desktops. Also computers last longer so people don't feel the need to upgrade. I don't think it has anything to do with bad strategy on Apple's part otherwise they'd be declining with everyone else going up. But most of the data we see is Mac sales declining less than the overall Windows market.
post #29 of 60

Update, innovate and differentiate, Apple.   I've been waiting for several months now for iMacs and MacBook Pro updates!

post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Update, innovate and differentiate, Apple.   I've been waiting for several months now for iMacs and MacBook Pro updates!

 

Innovate they did with the new Mac Pro. Differentiate is extremely hard when everyone is trying to copy your designs. Updates? Well, yeah, I'm always impatient for updates too : ) 

post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Why is it that every time we get some analyst data about Mac sales declining people come up with all these stories about why when really it's pretty plain to see (and is visible in the Windows market as well)? Mobile products are cannibalizing laptops and in some cases desktops. Also computers last longer so people don't feel the need to upgrade. I don't think it has anything to do with bad strategy on Apple's part otherwise they'd be declining with everyone else going up. But most of the data we see is Mac sales declining less than the overall Windows market.

 

Exactly.  Thank you.

post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer View Post

 

LOL 


LOL?  Is that a good, bad or ugly comment, Teamracer.  Agree, dissent, just laugh?  Any words?  Talk to me.

post #33 of 60
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post
Its slow, painfully slow, unintutive thanks to porting over UI features from iOS such as scrollbars which dont appear unless you mouse over where they 'might be'. I could go on.

 

But you won't, because you don't have any valid complaints in the first place.


Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post
Is that a good, bad or ugly comment, Teamracer.  Agree, dissent, just laugh?  Any words?  Talk to me.

 

You'd think the thumbs up would give you a clue. 1rolleyes.gif

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #34 of 60

The only Apple products I've purchased in the last couple of years were an ATV3 and a T-Mobile iPhone 5 for the wife.  Everything else we have - 24" iMac, MacBook Air, Mac mini, Cinema Display, iPhone 4, iPad, iPod, Airport Extreme, Time Capsule ...yikes! - have all been humming along quite nicely.  

 

That said this Q3 and/or Q4 (depending on the refresh date) I plan on buying a new 27" iMac, an iPad mini and and iPhone 5s.  I'll be selling some of the Apple products that they'll replace (for far more money than any other brand could ever hope for BTW) and handing down the rest to family members...because they still work quite well (the Apple products that is 1wink.gif ).  I'd wager there are a lot of folks in similar circumstances.

 

In the long run I know that we've saved far more than my poor friends that are convinced that they're getting a "good deal" by not paying the mythical "Apple tax" and settling for the hardware (and software) du jour...only to have to replace it again and again and again.

post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

All Macs need retina fast.

Where's the next big thing?

Everything is getting stale.

hahaha forgot your /s at the end there….

post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Might have something to do with the tragic state of Mac OS X since the iPad gained popularity. Its slow, painfully slow, unintutive thanks to porting over UI features from iOS such as scrollbars which dont appear unless you mouse over where they 'might be'. I could go on.

 

I used to think the Mac was great. Now wont touch one.

 

oh my. this was rich.

 

ok then!! go limping back to WINDOWS 8. Have fun there!   BWAAAA-hahahahahahaaa!

 

 

An anecdotal caution however: I have a colleague who is using Windows primarily. He curses and thrashes constantly over Microsoft's new OS.

 

After watching me comfortably and happily glide through my days on my Mac (and iPad), he has decided to buy a Macbook Air at the end of the month, and is tossing his miserable HP laptop out a window. You may have complaints about OS X, but I challenge you to seriously claim ANY alternative is more elegant and useable.

 

Guess I should mention he also recently trash-canned his Galaxy SII phone and picked up an iPhone 4S. Is so enamored with it, and glad he switched that he's bought an iPad Mini AND is dropping for the Air in a couple of weeks….

 

I think his real life experiences better reflect the fiction you invented here. But, if it really IS your lot, then… best of luck to you!

post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

I never understood Apple's anorexic obsession! As for me, I look at the front of my iMac and never, ever, see how thin it is. If they can continue this without sacrificing features, then I don't care, but there comes a point where it does not make sense. 

 

It's way more than that. And Apple is not known for "not making sense".

 

Here's just a couple of sense-points for you to latch onto (from a current user of the previous generation iMac):

 

- the new iMac reduces internal heat dramatically, which extends the life and overall performance of the machine. It is also noticeably quieter as a result.

 

- the new design eliminates the "dust ghosting" prevalent on the earlier version iMacs. You'd have to own one to really get what I'm talking about. Dust gets behind the glass, making it look dirty, typically in the upper corners. Over time they form broad "fans" down from the corners. You have to lift the glass off and clean it to remove them, exposing the LCD and risking a loss of warranty in the process. If not readily cleaned, the LCD itself could be permanently "stained" by these 'ghost' fans… the new design eliminates this problem.

 

- the reflectivity of the screen is FAR less on the new iMacs, in part due to the same solution that solved the dust problem. The laminated system they devised, reduces glare and creates a sealed system.

 

 

Much more than simply "stupid, aesthetically-based design choices" wouldn't you say?

post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Yeah right.. so "stale" they are still making more revenue on "PC" sales than the next competitor.


wutever.

In fact, doesn't Apple generate more profit from desktop and laptop computers than the top five competitors in the markets combined?
post #39 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The iMacs need a higher resolution screen.  Especially the 27 inch which has almost the same pixel count as an iPad. 

They have put too much money in the form factor.  The super thin form factor is expensive to manufactuer.  Most people would rather have a thicker back panel (the thinner panel looks cool but does not offer any space savings at all) UHD screen, and slighter cheaper price.

I'm thinking of buying a 27 iMac but the screen resolution and price is bothering me. 

Yeah, because of all the other 27" 2560x1440 AIO computers on the market.

Oh, wait..... 1oyvey.gif


Hint: Dell and HP both offer AIO computers. The problem is that their top end is around 23" and 1920x1080 - hardly a threat to the iMac for screen specs. And that doesn't even et into the quality differences.
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post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

It's way more than that. And Apple is not known for "not making sense".

 

Here's just a couple of sense-points for you to latch onto (from a current user of the previous generation iMac):

 

- the new iMac reduces internal heat dramatically, which extends the life and overall performance of the machine. It is also noticeably quieter as a result.

 

- the new design eliminates the "dust ghosting" prevalent on the earlier version iMacs. You'd have to own one to really get what I'm talking about. Dust gets behind the glass, making it look dirty, typically in the upper corners. Over time they form broad "fans" down from the corners. You have to lift the glass off and clean it to remove them, exposing the LCD and risking a loss of warranty in the process. If not readily cleaned, the LCD itself could be permanently "stained" by these 'ghost' fans… the new design eliminates this problem.

 

- the reflectivity of the screen is FAR less on the new iMacs, in part due to the same solution that solved the dust problem. The laminated system they devised, reduces glare and creates a sealed system.

 

 

Much more than simply "stupid, aesthetically-based design choices" wouldn't you say?

 

 

Yes, the new design of the lamination process reduced glare. Proper sealing would eliminate any dust issues. Neither have anything to do with the form factor itself being thinner. 

 

I never said anything near "stupid" in my description of their design choice. Actually, I do not have a problem with it as you would imply. I only stated my observation of their anorexic obsession.  

 

Further, the reduction (more accurately, the perceived reduction) is more viewing angle than anything as the iMac is still fat in the back but really thin on the sides. So yes, this was simply a design choice. 

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