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Mac sales on pace to slide 5% in Apple's September quarter - Page 2

post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not if they get their updates out, it won't.

Which might not happen this quarter anyways.

Frankly I don't think anybody at Apple cares about the numbers. They know sales bounce back with updates and further there is a lot of buzz around Haswell.
post #42 of 60

I've been a bit disappointed with Mac sales.  And while I can see that iPad and laptops are cannibalizing Macs a bit I really thought that halo effect would've added more to bottom line Mac numbers.

 

I agree that iMacs should be designed not only for beauty/aesthetics but also for value (i.e. cost).  The new thin iMacs are a little over done.

 

But with all my smallish complaints, Apple continues to produce great desktops and they will improve demand with Mavericks and possibly new/improved Mac Minis.  I really think that Mavericks will give dramatic boost to iMac sales.

 

Apple is starting to seriously kill it in education.  Wonder how long it'll take for this younger generation to buy iMacs in droves...after they graduate?

post #43 of 60
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Which might not happen this quarter anyways.

 

When did Intel say Thunderbolt 2 was being released, September? Then September.

 

You're certainly right about numbers, though.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

When did Intel say Thunderbolt 2 was being released, September? Then September.
Actually they haven't been real clear on the release date for TB 2. There are a large number if Haswell processors and XEONs coming in September though.
Quote:
You're certainly right about numbers, though.

At this point anybody half tuned into the market would realize that Haswell based Macs are not far off. As such sales will be down waiting for the new hardware to debut.
post #45 of 60

What do you think will be the next GPU on the new 22" imacs.   We have the 650m at 1250 G3D mark. The new 750m has 1650 G3D mark, so about 30% faster.

 

Intel HD 4000 has 464 and HD 5000 has 576. The new MBA used the build in HD 5000. I think retina macs that relay on those chips are abominations, but I understand that some people only needs web browsing and word processing.

 

On the 27" side, I think the 680MX will be replace by the 780m, which is about 30% faster. I personally have 680MX, which is very good but still wont allow me to run World of Warcraft at max settings.


Edited by herbapou - 8/19/13 at 7:44pm
post #46 of 60
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
What do you think will be the next GPU on the new 22" iMacs.

 

Expect Intel 5000, pray for something better alongside it.


 We have the 650m at 1250 G3D mark. The new 750m has 1650 G3D mark, so about 30% faster.

 

What's the TDP on the 750? If it matches the 650, that's a good bet.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #47 of 60

I for one have been holding off on replacing a macbook until the haswell mbps come out.

post #48 of 60

Current Mac offering is really not superb, if you look at it. Exception is Air, of course, you cannot expect more from it at the time. However, Macbook Pro Retina and iMac are not at their best.

 

I write this on Retina Macbook Pro and while being really satisfied with the screen (I don't need my glasses anymore !!1biggrin.gif), I miss ruggedness and firmness of "Classic". It was an overkill on design, I find it hardly acceptable that it tweeks and squeeks almost like plastic case and bottom aluminum cover is too soft and prone to bend in. I actually got the new bent in, I found quickly why... Also the price has gone over the acceptable reef barrier. They've kept the "classic" though, but it is a bitter consolation...

 

iMac 27" could be a great machine, but now, when I'm used to retina on Macbook and iPad it is hardly likely to toss away my 2011 iMac for a new one. iMac 20" is another funny story, because I believe it was killed by not making it memory upgradable. I had plenty of macs and I remember the memory upgrade on every single one. This was extreme trade-off, an overkill on design, actually, what we can see in many places in iOS7 as well. Ive as a design nuclear reactor needs better moderator, because it seems he wants to explode sometimes. He should think of miniaturization and slimness more within his iPad Mini achievement, because there he actually succeeded in full.

 

My general feeling is that Phil is missing on vital product decisions. Or not. But someone does. Jonny The Moderator, perhaps ?  1wink.gif


Edited by poksi - 8/20/13 at 12:33am
post #49 of 60
My 3 yrs old MBP has 16GB RAM in it. To justify an upgrade I need my next MBP to be expandable to at least 32 or 64 to last me another 3-4 years. Anyone else in the same boat? I see all the discounts are on the low ram model and the ones with 16gb never discounted. I'm guessing those sell well.

For the poster who said they is waiting for their Mac to die; it's gonna be a long time. Better to hand it down. You will run out on need for ram expansion before it dies. I've never had a Mac die. I've got machines from 1999 still humming along. Some a bit louder than humming now due to noisy ball bearings.
Edited by snova - 8/20/13 at 12:56am
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

My 3 yrs old MBP has 16GB RAM in it. To justify an upgrade I need my next MBP to be expandable to at least 32 or 64 to last me another 3-4 years. Anyone else in the same boat? I see all the discounts are on the low ram model and the ones with 16gb never discounted. I'm guessing those sell well.

For the poster who said they is waiting for their Mac to die; it's gonna be a long time. Better to hand it down. You will run out on need for ram expansion before it dies. I've never had a Mac die. I've got machines from 1999 still humming along. Some a bit louder than humming now due to noisy ball bearings.

you do realize that a similar MBP with 4gb of ram would be much faster, right?

 

I mean, your RAM is what? 1033? the new ones are 1600 and faster.

post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

you do realize that a similar MBP with 4gb of ram would be much faster, right?

I mean, your RAM is what? 1033? the new ones are 1600 and faster.
My ram speed is fine. It's the page outs I don't like.
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post #52 of 60

I would expect this...

 

You might say this is because Apple hasn't updated their products in a while, but I think its because its getting to a point where you don't need to upgrade your Mac as much. The speed of any computer is getting to the point where a general everyday user doesn't feel the need to update as much. You take this into account, and add the fact that someone may have an iPad and then you really don't feel the need to buy a new Mac. 

 

So sure, maybe Apple will see a slight surge in sales once they do release new Macs, but the actual performance gains won't be huge. Something you might gain if its a laptop is battery life. That may be a reason to upgrade depending on what you already have. 

post #53 of 60

I'm not screen expert but just a layman.  When i see a $499 iPad have a superior screen than a $2200 iMac it makes me puzzled.  And I'm sure many others think the same.  I know its a tech issue but I'm just trying to explain my personal reasons why I held off from buying an iMac to replace my 5 year old Wintel. 

 

I also believe that Apple has gone extreme in trying to make the iMac as thin as possible.  First of the 22" model has no option of upgrading memory also it houses a small and slow 1TB drive (the 27" model has a bigger faster drive).  Adding the fusion drives helps but in the reviews it shows that the slow drive in the 22 model actually is a bottle neck making performance worse than the older model.  Sorry that right there is sacrificing performance/flexability for pure design.  Not to mention the new design is expensive.  A special welding tech, ect.  While everyone elses desktops are getting way cheaper, the iMacs are getting more expensive.

 

The combination of a screen that will disappoint many and very high prices to pay for the ultra thin design probably scared many away.

post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

I'm not screen expert but just a layman.  When i see a $499 iPad have a superior screen than a $2200 iMac it makes me puzzled.  And I'm sure many others think the same.  I know its a tech issue but I'm just trying to explain my personal reasons why I held off from buying an iMac to replace my 5 year old Wintel. 

 

I also believe that Apple has gone extreme in trying to make the iMac as thin as possible.  First of the 22" model has no option of upgrading memory also it houses a small and slow 1TB drive (the 27" model has a bigger faster drive).  Adding the fusion drives helps but in the reviews it shows that the slow drive in the 22 model actually is a bottle neck making performance worse than the older model.  Sorry that right there is sacrificing performance/flexability for pure design.  Not to mention the new design is expensive.  A special welding tech, ect.  While everyone elses desktops are getting way cheaper, the iMacs are getting more expensive.

 

The combination of a screen that will disappoint many and very high prices to pay for the ultra thin design probably scared many away.

 

This is probably because its a hell of a lot cheaper to put a retina display in a 9" device than a 27" or 21.5" device. These screens are most likely very expensive. You can't compare a handheld to a regular computer. These are 2 separate things. So, Apple will put a 27" retina panel in, but then don't bitch because it costs $3500 now. The thinness has nothing to do with the quality of panel in the iMac. Its the cost of the panel itself. 

 

Apple's products have been priced the same for years and its never been an issue. If you want a Mac, you're going to pay for it. If you think its not worth it, then go buy a cheaper PC. Apple is not going to lower its prices, especially if you want higher quality parts inside it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. 

post #55 of 60

Apple needs to stick this out and keep up innovation on the Mac.  The decline in sales is temporary, and here's why:

 

People are holding out.  I want to buy a new MacBook myself, but the slow pace of innovation has kept me waiting.  Intel hasn't had significant performance jumps in CPUs/chipsets for years.  Until Haswell, there's been no compelling reason to upgrade.  As for MacOSX, my opinion is that Apple's best OS was 10.6 and they "broke" it with 10.7.  MacOSX 10.9 finally looks to a least pique my interest once more.

 

It's the economy stupid.  Despite the fake rosy comment you hear in the media, the economy is getting worse, not better.  People want to buy new Macs but they don't have the discretionary income they once had.  People will buy, but they have to save up the $ now.  This is largely due to the devaluation of the dollar.  With the looming healthcare train wreck, the middle east on fire, increasing national debt, and the ongoing devaluation of the dollar, this aspect is not going to get better.  But the silver lining for Apple is that premium price (and quality) tiers will be less impacted than the bargain basement PC market where all of Apple's competitors play.  The deteriorating economy is going to dry up any available cash in the lower income space before it hits the upper-middle to high income classes.

 

Long-in-the-tooth Macs.  While Apple has announced a few new "toys" (MacBook Air), I think they've been quite delinquent with Mac upgrades.  There is pent up demand.  Finally, finally, they are about to release a new Mac Pro.  If they promote and support it properly, they could have a real blockbuster here.  They also need to update the entire [rest of the] line with the new Haswell CPUs, USB 3, and 20Gb Thunderbolt.

post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

 

This is probably because its a hell of a lot cheaper to put a retina display in a 9" device than a 27" or 21.5" device. These screens are most likely very expensive. You can't compare a handheld to a regular computer. These are 2 separate things. So, Apple will put a 27" retina panel in, but then don't bitch because it costs $3500 now. The thinness has nothing to do with the quality of panel in the iMac. Its the cost of the panel itself. 

 

Apple's products have been priced the same for years and its never been an issue. If you want a Mac, you're going to pay for it. If you think its not worth it, then go buy a cheaper PC. Apple is not going to lower its prices, especially if you want higher quality parts inside it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. 

 

The new process of welding the iMacs does add significant cost when purchased and for repairs.  It seems to me that the only real improvements with the new iMacs were its thin design.  I think most people would rather have a better screen or faster drive/cpu/gpu.

post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The new process of welding the iMacs does add significant cost when purchased and for repairs.  It seems to me that the only real improvements with the new iMacs were its thin design.  I think most people would rather have a better screen or faster drive/cpu/gpu.

'Most people' are not in a position to make that assessment.

Determining whether the welded design makes sense requires you to know:
- The cost of building the old design.
- The cost of repairing the old design
- The cost of building the new design
- The cost of repairing the new design
- The percentage of people who upgrade their computers
- The percentage of people who would choose not to buy a computer that's less upgradeable
- The percentage of computers that fail under warranty
- The percentage of computers that fail after warranty expiration
- The other advantages of the new design (greater physical stability which means less likely to break the screen in shipment, for example)
- Other disadvantage of the new design
- Number of customers who buy the new one specifically because of thinness
- Number of customers who refuse to buy the new one because of thinness
And so on

Without knowing all of those things, there's absolutely no way to determine if it would have made sense to stick with the old design. I suspect that Apple has studied the matter pretty thoroughly in coming up with the new design. So where's your data for all of those questions that indicates that they made the wrong decision?
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #58 of 60
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
you do realize that a similar MBP with 4gb of ram would be much faster, right? I mean, your RAM is what? 1033? the new ones are 1600 and faster.

 

That doesn't sound right to me.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

 

The new process of welding the iMacs does add significant cost when purchased and for repairs.  It seems to me that the only real improvements with the new iMacs were its thin design.  I think most people would rather have a better screen or faster drive/cpu/gpu.

 

Oh does it? Would you like to prove that it really does?

 

I'm pretty sure Apple knows what customers want a lot better than you do. Just because Apple isn't making what you want, doesn't mean others are unhappy too. 

 

The iMac isn't Apple's biggest seller anyways. Their laptop line up is and has been for quite a while. So I'm pretty sure the lack of iMac sales isn't killing Apple as much as you want to think. Like I said in a previous post, its more likely that people simply don't need to upgrade as much anymore, and they're buying devices like iPads instead of laptops and desktops. This is part of the reason why you see Dell and HP struggling now too. They failed to keep up and relied on PC sales. Apple pushed the market and released amazing new products that wasn't a PC. 

post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

you do realize that a similar MBP with 4gb of ram would be much faster, right?

I mean, your RAM is what? 1033? the new ones are 1600 and faster.

A new MBP with 4 GB of 1600 RAM is faster than one with 16 GB of 1033 RAM?

Perhaps on some limited benchmark tests. But in real life, the one with 16 GB of RAM is likely to be much faster - almost all the time.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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