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Apple's 'iPhone 5S' and 'iPhone 5C' to launch in Japan on Sept. 20

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Japanese publication Nikkei reported Wednesday that Apple is set to release both a next-generation "iPhone 5S," as well as a less-expensive "iPhone 5C," in the country on Sept. 20 through cellular carriers SoftBank and KDDI.

Lite
Rendering of "iPhone 5C" based on reportedly leaked schematics.


According to the business focused publication (via CNET), Apple will release the two handsets simultaneously on Sept. 20, a date that jibes with a rumor that claimed the company is planning to announce the devices at a special Sept. 10 iPhone event.

In addition to the supposed release date, the publication said Apple will debut a new gold color option for the iPhone 5S, a rumor that has quickly gained traction over the past week.

Apple's current partner carriers SoftBank and KDDI are expected to have both the iPhone 5S and 5C available on launch, while NTT DoCoMo will once again go without.

Beyond a purported launch date, not much else was provided in the way of device details. The newspaper echoed rumors and speculation regarding the inclusion of a fingerprint reader and upgraded internals for the 5S, while little was said about the 5C.
post #2 of 46
Never mind.
post #3 of 46
I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation
post #4 of 46
Nilkkei?! The Nikkei that has reported three times over that Docomo had signed on with Apple to sell iPhone and never admitted to being wrong later?

Yes that Nikkei.

Even Huff Post has a better Apple reporting hit average than these guys.
post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizdec View Post

I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation
Don't mean to be rude, but that's the dumbest thing I've heard. This phone would be replacing iPhone 4, 4S and possibly 5, all of which have a retina display. If Apple was against cannibalization they wouldn't be selling the 4 and 4S right now.
post #6 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Don't mean to be rude, but that's the dumbest thing I've heard. This phone would be replacing iPhone 4, 4S and possibly 5, all of which have a retina display. If Apple was against cannibalization they wouldn't be selling the 4 and 4S right now.

 

I'm pretty sure pizdec was yanking your chain.

post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

I'm pretty sure pizdec was yanking your chain.
Huh? Some people are stupid enough to believe this. Heck Gene Munster thinks Apple will leave Siri off this phone.
post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizdec View Post

I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation
Cannibalization is fine if you are moving them to a higher margin product. It's also fine if the other option is lost sales. Better to get something than nothing.
post #9 of 46

Well, looks like we already know what Apple was waiting for for their new iphone line with a bigger screen (please, don't say that it isn't needed when all other premium smartphones have a bigger screen, and together they easely outsell the iphone, especially out of the US. So a new iphone line, together with the current 4" line could easely see iphone sales doubling on the premium segment!)

 

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642900/lg-announces-5-5-inch-smartphone-lcd-with-record-pixel-density

post #10 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Well, looks like we already know what Apple was waiting for for their new iphone line with a bigger screen (please, don't say that it isn't needed when all other premium smartphones have a bigger screen, and together they easely outsell the iphone, especially out of the US. So a new iphone line, together with the current 4" line could easely see iphone sales doubling on the premium segment!)

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642900/lg-announces-5-5-inch-smartphone-lcd-with-record-pixel-density

I don't get your fascination with larger screens. The iPhone 5 screen is perfect for 90% of mobile task users need.

For the other 10% of tasks a device like an iPad or MacBook would be better suited than a 5 inch smartphone anyway.

Anyway I don't think Apple will have a bigger screen iPhone unless they completely reimagine the form factor, which may happen next year or may not happen for a few years.
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizdec View Post

I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation

Sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Breckinridge View Post

Nilkkei?! The Nikkei that has reported three times over that Docomo had signed on with Apple to sell iPhone and never admitted to being wrong later?

Yes that Nikkei.

Even Huff Post has a better Apple reporting hit average than these guys.

I remember when they reported that. Maybe Apple did have talks with DoMoCo and they fell through again. Or maybe DoMoCo is signed in and the Nikkei is wrong this time?
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizdec View Post

I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation

 

While I disagree with this in that a non-retina screen would mean another screen resolution the developers would have to support as there is no 4" non-retina screen in the iOS world, but what I do agree with is the sentiment that the 5C and 5S at this point seem too similar (some we know, but many are assumptions this community makes). Apple would never sell similar (appearing to the masses) products at different price points (actually, most companies would never do this) because they'd risk losing sales of the higher priced phone as well as entrenching in the minds of the masses that the price of the iPhone is the price of the 5C, and once that price is decreased in the minds of the public, you can't raise it again. Apples knows this, and so I think we don't have all the facts about these 2 phones, despite the certainty of some that we do, I think the announce event could be very surprising, certainly enlightening.

post #13 of 46
I'm still curious how Apple positions the 5C or whatever the call it. If its not cheap enough will it solve the issues in emerging markets? And if Apple does go cheaper will there be enough differentiation for people to buy the flagship model? Or will it be no different than today with the 4 and 4S? I think if Apple gimps the 5C (no Siri, non retina, etc) just to protect the 5S that could be a disaster. Unless the 5C is for a specific market and wouldn't be sold in North America or Europe. But I have a hard time believing Apple would restrict where it's sold. September 10 will be interesting.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

While I disagree with this in that a non-retina screen would mean another screen resolution the developers would have to support as there is no 4" non-retina screen in the iOS world, but what I do agree with is the sentiment that the 5C and 5S at this point seem too similar (some we know, but many are assumptions this community makes). Apple would never sell similar (appearing to the masses) products at different price points (actually, most companies would never do this) because they'd risk losing sales of the higher priced phone as well as entrenching in the minds of the masses that the price of the iPhone is the price of the 5C, and once that price is decreased in the minds of the public, you can't raise it again. Apples knows this, and so I think we don't have all the facts about these 2 phones, despite the certainty of some that we do, I think the announce event could be very surprising, certainly enlightening.
Yeah I have some of the same thoughts as you. If you look at the iPad mini Apple didn't purposely make an inferior product to try and protect the full size iPad.. Not having retina I think was more a technical issue (battery life, thickness and weight, availability of the right displays etc.) than purposely leaving it out for cannibalization fears. And not having a retina display meant they didn't need to use the latest CPU/GPU inside. Alwo many of the design features of the mini are coming to the full size iPad.

So the question with the flagship and lower cost phone is which one gets the most differentiation? Obviously the lower cost model has a different casing. But aside from that will the flagship be a big improvement over iPhone 5 or will the lower cost model have some features left out or the internals much inferior to the flagship?
post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by APPLGUY View Post

Cannibalization is fine if you are moving them to a higher margin product. It's also fine if the other option is lost sales. Better to get something than nothing.

Exactly. I wonder why people are so quick to forget one of the key lessons that Jobs taught. Cannibalize your own products or someone else will.
http://socialfloss.com/28/steve-job’s-lesson-cannibalize-your-own-products
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post #16 of 46
The 5C will only be available in a 16GB model with less RAM, CPU and GPU performance.

The 5S will come in 32, 64 and 128GB capacities.

Both will have the same camera and finger scanning tech.
post #17 of 46
The 5C is aimed at people who are not techies. The specs are not what they are concerned with. They want an iPhone in pretty colors, takes great selfies and has that new finger scanner everyone is talking about.
post #18 of 46
The 5S is the premium/flagship/prestige product.
This will be reflected in the build quality, specs and price.
This is the iPhone aimed at those who care about RAM, CPU, GPU and those that can afford luxury goods.
They may not know what a GPU is but they have the money and only want the best.
While both models appeal to the fashionable through the use of color, the 5S is for those willing to pay a premium for style.
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm still curious how Apple positions the 5C or whatever the call it. If its not cheap enough will it solve the issues in emerging markets? And if Apple does go cheaper will there be enough differentiation for people to buy the flagship model? Or will it be no different than today with the 4 and 4S? I think if Apple gimps the 5C (no Siri, non retina, etc) just to protect the 5S that could be a disaster. Unless the 5C is for a specific market and wouldn't be sold in North America or Europe. But I have a hard time believing Apple would restrict where it's sold. September 10 will be interesting.
I think it's just a calculation on their part, but one that we don't have the numbers to guess at right now. It seems clear to me that this isn't a phone for a particular market like non-North American markets or specifically China markets, but instead a replacement for the "old" way of selling the previous years models at a discount. It will sell world-wide and replace those products and that strategy.

It also seems clear (to me at least) that they are at the tipping point right now of a decline in market share, and also that an increase in market share at exactly this juncture would tie up the entire market for them with a bow and consolidate their future prospects. So while Apple traditionally doesn't care about market share, I think this is the historical point at which they change that perception and do just that. When you add in the fact that they have been trying to crack the prepaid market for years now with only limited success, I think the iPhone 5c has to be an answer for all three of those things.

For that reason, it should be priced as dirt cheap as they can possibly make it, probably in the $350 or even $300 range. Whether they can achieve that or not, only they know. Whether they have the bravery to do it, even if its possible, who knows? I think if its priced higher than that, then it's a fail, and it will be either too little too late, or you will see the iPhone 6c try to achieve that price the following year. It also makes sense that once they go cheap, and the market responds, that they will have strong competition at that price point and we may see a sort of race to the bottom or at least towards ever lower prices and ever lower margins.
post #20 of 46

I am going to laugh so hard when the 5C is more expensive than the 5S rather than less as so many seem to be predicting. 

post #21 of 46

I'm looking fwd to the 5c. Perhaps a bit nostalgic on my part. I remember back in the day coveting the 30' Apple monitor and the Apple Aluminum Tower. Had to get the orig. 20" intel iMac. (Still running btw) Really liked the MBP's but had to get the white intel MB. Love the Extreme, had to get the Express. 

 

I did order an original iPhone for myself and my daughter, though.

 

I could really dig on a white 5c, a white iPad Mini, and an MBA, a new TimeCapsule and a new ATV. I'll get all that for the less than half of my tech kit of just 5 years ago.

 

Bring on the 5c!

 

P.S. Real quick: I remember when Apple first entered Japan with the iPhone and now they are the primo product there. Good for Apple! :)

post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


I don't get your fascination with larger screens. The iPhone 5 screen is perfect for 90% of mobile task users need.

 

 

I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size. 

 

There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.

post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

I am going to laugh so hard when the 5C is more expensive than the 5S rather than less as so many seem to be predicting. 

Unlikely. But I too would enjoy that. Not because that would prove many wrong. But because it would signal that Apple is still choosing its own path, and not capitulating to the calls for a cheaper phone.

post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

The 5S is the premium/flagship/prestige product.
This will be reflected in the build quality, specs and price.
 

I doubt that the 5C will have lower build quality. Different or even less expensive material doesn't always translate to lower build quality.

post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

The 5C will only be available in a 16GB model with less RAM, CPU and GPU performance.

The 5S will come in 32, 64 and 128GB capacities.

Both will have the same camera and finger scanning tech.

The first part makes sense but the second part is pretty much known untrue.

 

The 5C will not have fingerprint scanning as yields are troublesome and the sensor is expensive enough that it cannot be put into the 5C at that price point.  The fingerprint scanner is a key new feature to drive upgrades and higher end users to the 5S.

 


cryptoanarchy.com

post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

 

I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size. 

 

There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.

 

The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.

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post #27 of 46
A large screen would give people what they want which as we know runs into many a new problem for Apple. That being 'what to sell next year', 'is it a tablet or is it a phone', and 'a sameness with competing Android systems'. So methinks it has to be think small, aim for a lasting uniqueness thus retaining those big profits and longer term loyalty.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap View Post

 

The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.

First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes. 

 

I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need. 

 

The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad. 

 

Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it. 


Edited by gwmac - 8/21/13 at 8:46am

 

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post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Huh? Some people are stupid enough to believe this. Heck Gene Munster thinks Apple will leave Siri off this phone.

I don't think they will.  At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that.  I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model.  I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.

post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I don't think they will.  At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that.  I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model.  I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.

I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook. 

 

It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version  which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly. 

 

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post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook. 

 

It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version  which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly. 

I just heard that, I believe it was Qualcomm, was going to release or has released a new voice/data chip with NFC built in, so to use this updated chip that you get NFC whether you like it or not.  Again, I'm going strictly from memory on an article I read.  I agree that Apple may or may not implement NFC, but if they had it, I wouldn't mind if it was there so future iOS updates.  Since I didn't hear anything at WWDC about NFC and I've not read anywhere that NFC functionality is part of iOS 7, you're probably right, but if the voice/data chips have them onboard, then maybe they could add that functionality later on.  I know it's a stretch, that's why I put it in with a question mark.  Because it's a maybe, not a definite. But an updated voice/data chip is PROBABLY part of the iPhone 5S w/ or w/o NFC.

 

Apple unfortunately, won't talk about future products unless they feel they need to.  Several reasons for that. One, they don't want to repeat what happened to Osborne Computer back in the 80's.  They made a future product announcement too soon and what happened was no one bought the existing product and the company went out of business as a result.  I know people always want to know about future products, but it's a double edged sword to talk about something too soon before they release the product.  I think the reasoning behind the MacPro announcement was that it was at WWDC, Apple has had a lot of flack over not coming out with a new MacPro system, but honestly it's not Apple's fault.  They had to wait for Intel to release the Thunderbolt chip sets that actually support XEON chips and since the completely new redesign, they couldn't release the product any sooner since TB 2 is new and so are the 12 core chips, etc., etc.  Since the current MacPro doesn't sell that much, they aren't losing much business, so for them to make an announcement like that, it doesn't really hurt sales.

 

I just think it's doubtful that Apple will make an announcement for a larger screen model, UNLESS, they have something to show that's a working product and they just delay shipping it due to production capabilities and waiting for components to become available similar to that of the MacPro system.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Either way, I think there are enough people that know Apple is working on a larger screen model, but last i heard (no one directly from Apple, it was from a rumor site), that they haven't made the final decision as to screen size.  As they say, rumors are just rumors.  Apple likes to keep control over future product announcements for several reasons.  One, as to not disrupt currents sales, which is understandable.  Two, they don't want to announce unless they know the shipment dates.  Three, to keep others guessing and lastly, because it makes the product announcement more exciting.  We, by nature, always want to know what we're getting for Christmas before we open our presents, but sometimes It's better to be surprised. It makes it more enjoyable.

post #32 of 46
Originally Posted by pizdec View Post
I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation

 

Abject nonsense.


Originally Posted by Dunks View Post
I'm pretty sure pizdec was yanking your chain.

 

No, people actually believe this.


Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post
A large screen would give people what they want

 

Not in the slightest.

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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

 

It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone.

 

Yes, good insight.

...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.

 

Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

Yes, good insight.

...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.

 

Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.

I think it's better if they did it for two reasons.  It keeps the anti-Apple people from saying they aren't innovating, plus from a production level perspective, they might not be able to make products fast enough, regardless of the screen size and model since it's a feeding frenzy like a pack of hungry piranha feasting on fresh meat.

 

Plus it would help increase quarterly sales throughout the year rather than releasing everything for one quarter.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

Yes, good insight.

...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.

 

Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.

If I had perfect vision I would be happier with the current 4" version but I don't and sometimes have trouble reading small print. The Zoom feature is a real PITA to use for rare occasions when I need it so that is not really an option. Turn it on in settings and you can see what I mean.  I don't want zoom I want a bigger display.  But I think a larger display will even appeal to many people with 20/20 vision simply because some people now prefer larger screen for a whole host of reasons. whether it is browsing the web, watching a video, looking at your photos, or playing a game...it is a better experience with a larger screen. 

 

It is good the keep the 4" iPhone around for the diehards who like that size and because they use the phone in one hand often or don't tend to look at the display for any extended time, but I am confident Apple will release a larger iPhone probably around April or at the latest in the fall of next year. And like Drblank said above it will also keep product buzz and sales more constant year round. There is a big dip in sales in the quarter prior to a new release. 

 

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post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes. 

 

I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need. 

 

The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad. 

 

Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it. 

 

I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.

 

To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.

 

I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.

 

My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.

 

Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.

Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.

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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap View Post

 

I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.

 

To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.

 

I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.

 

My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.

 

Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.

Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.

 

You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.

 

Here you go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/13/can-apple-compete-with-samsung-in-46-billion-phablet-market/

and another

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/key-growth-potential-phablets-market-000000408.html

"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.

In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."

As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before. 

 

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

 

You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.

 

Here you go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/13/can-apple-compete-with-samsung-in-46-billion-phablet-market/

and another

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/key-growth-potential-phablets-market-000000408.html

"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.

In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."

As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before. 


See, I don't got with futures, or predictions... they always get them wrong. I go with established numbers - past and current trends. Analysts have predicted many trends, from the Surface taking off to the z10 revitalizing Blackberry... predictions by the people unable to influence them are useless as they are forgotten by the next article. The titles are almost always hyperbole - claiming the death of this and the surge of that... 

25 Million is a decent number, but Apple sold 126 Million iphones in the same year (a year with "phablets" out right beside iPhones in stores and carriers), chosen above bigger screened devices. The also sold 58 Million iPads for those that wanted something bigger than what fits in your pocket. Don't go off predictions - it's a sucker's game. Use real numbers. (source)

Developers won't always adapt, they may just move on and cut support for older phones sooner than you would like. For apple - cutting support from devs for a device that may be still on contract is a disaster for their image and reputation to that customer. That should never be overlooked.

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post #39 of 46
The news on small screens is that some opticians are reporting a doubling of myopia. This is thought to becaused by small smartphone screens, with the iPhone obviously a major contributor. Interestingly the very restrictive nature of Safari and its permanent mobile mode counteracts that.
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Well, looks like we already know what Apple was waiting for for their new iphone line with a bigger screen (please, don't say that it isn't needed when all other premium smartphones have a bigger screen, and together they easely outsell the iphone, especially out of the US. So a new iphone line, together with the current 4" line could easely see iphone sales doubling on the premium segment!)

 

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642900/lg-announces-5-5-inch-smartphone-lcd-with-record-pixel-density

 

I don't believe that is true at all.

Smartphones with 5" plus screen sizes are not outselling iPhone 5 in US.

Where do you get your data?  I don't see anyone suggesting this at all.

 

I am not even sure that all android smartphones above $500 non-contract are outselling iPhones in the world.

Most data that I see are showing android budget phones outselling iPhones.

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