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Haswell-based MacBook Pros expected to ship in September - report

post #1 of 132
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The highly-anticipated MacBook Pro refresh is said to already be in production, setting the stage for a possible unveiling alongside new iPhones at Apple's rumored Sept. 10 event.

MBP


Taiwanese manufacturers have begun to ship components for new MacBook Pros based on Intel's fourth-generation Haswell processors to assembly plants, according to a Thursday report by Hong Kong-based supply chain monitor EMSOne.

The Haswell architecture, which made its Apple debut at WWDC 2013 in the MacBook Air, is designed to take advantage of improvements in transistor manufacturing processes to increase power efficiency and computational performance. Like its predecessor Ivy Bridge, Haswell chips are manufactured using a 22-nanometer process.

Apple's 2013 MacBook Air demonstrated the substantial power savings that can be realized with the new architecture. Despite maintaining the same battery capacity as their 2012 counterparts, the 2013 Airs run significantly longer on a charge - the 13-inch model gained five hours of battery life after the Haswell update, while the 11-inch model gained four hours.

Haswell-based MacBook Pros are expected to see similarly impressive gains in graphics performance. Benchmarks have revealed that we can expect to see Intel's Iris Pro 5200 GPU ? the chipmaker's top-of-the-line integrated graphics option that is intended to compete with discrete GPUs from nVidia and AMD ? in the new models.

The future of non-Retina and hard disk-based MacBook Pros remains unclear. While Apple is not expected to discontinue either model, the report does not specify which variants will benefit from the September refresh.
post #2 of 132
Good to see. I've been waiting for the Haswell Pros to upgrade - my 2010 Core2Duo-based Air is really long in the tooth.
post #3 of 132
I pray to god for this to be true! Cannot wait.
post #4 of 132
I wonder if the old school MacBook pros will hang around and recieve a price drop or something if they don't get a hardware update.

Anyway I kinda doubt we'll see these announced at the iPhone event. That event is already going to be pretty packed with the iOS 7 unveil, and 2 new iPhones.
post #5 of 132
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post
I wonder if the old school MacBook pros will hang around and recieve a price drop or something if they don't get a hardware update.

 

I'd imagine so. The rMBPs can't be priced to match yet and the uMBPs have received the last two updates alongside the retinas.

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post #6 of 132
Quote:
we can expect to see Intel's Iris Pro 5200 GPU — the chipmaker's top-of-the-line integrated graphics option that is intended to compete with discrete GPUs from nVidia and AMD — in the new models.

So, no more real graphic cards in "pros". Whatever Intel benchmarks are their drivers & features & implementation were always disastrous. Can you imagine Intel graphics for OpenGL pro apps. Hilarious.

Good luck anyway :)

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post #7 of 132
Finally, some news .... I've been waiting since the Spring to upgrade my 3 year Old iMac.
Can't wait !
post #8 of 132
It's tough to say what Apple will do regarding dedicated video cards. The biggest real drawback is the shared RAM, so maybe a supped up Iris 5200 with dedicated memory would suffice? Otherwise let' s hope for a new better dedicated card included as well, just like now. After all, the macbook pros are some people's only machine.

I am looking forward to this anyway! Can I wish for a fingerprint sensor on these too? 1biggrin.gif
post #9 of 132
Hopefully the minis get an update as well! Would love to see a 17" Macbook Pro version come back!
post #10 of 132
``see Intel's Iris Pro 5200 GPU %u2014 the chipmaker's top-of-the-line integrated graphics option that is intended to compete with discrete GPUs from nVidia and AMD %u2014 in the new models.''

Just stop. Please.

Intel's GPU on-die with the CPU will never compete with AMD or Intel.
post #11 of 132
We can only hope that Iris Pro is as good as some of the Intel fan sites imply. Of course they can't be trusted to publish unbiased numbers so we willhave to wait for respectable reports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocseg View Post

So, no more real graphic cards in "pros". Whatever Intel benchmarks are their drivers & features & implementation were always disastrous. Can you imagine Intel graphics for OpenGL pro apps. Hilarious.
Good luck anyway 1smile.gif

Yes I can imagine and frankly it isn't pretty. However I'm willing to give Intel a chance. Some of the reports about OpenCL performance and the like are encouraging but again we need unbiased reports. I'm really hoping the long delays in driver updates from Apple are an indication that Apple and Intel have hammered hard on the drivers to get them to a point where they aren't an embarrassment.
post #12 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

``see Intel's Iris Pro 5200 GPU %u2014 the chipmaker's top-of-the-line integrated graphics option that is intended to compete with discrete GPUs from nVidia and AMD %u2014 in the new models.''

Just stop. Please.

Intel's GPU on-die with the CPU will never compete with AMD or Intel.

Never is a very very long time. At this point we only need to wait for unbiased reporting, but one thing that is obvious is that Iris is a huge improvement for Intel.
post #13 of 132
My 17" MacBook Pro is now over 30 months old. Considering I've upgraded every new 17" model for years, Apple is losing money on me. Each of my older 17" MacBook Pros either finds a home with one of my friends or makes it into my development lab. My MacPro is ready for an upgrade as well.
post #14 of 132

Hallelujah!

post #15 of 132
About bl...y time! I hope the 15 inch rMBP continues to come with its own discrete graphics card though.
post #16 of 132
I think the refreshed MBP and iMac will receive a silent update: a press release, some infos on the website and, that's it.
post #17 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post

Good to see. I've been waiting for the Haswell Pros to upgrade - my 2010 Core2Duo-based Air is really long in the tooth.


Not as long as my 2004 iBook and 2007 Vista HP desktop, LoLz.....

...Gotta buy.  Hope this update hits a a good value/guts/price point I can live with for the next 4-5 years!

 

(The initial rMBP's were a good engineering milestone for their tech time, but too pricey for what they deliver IMHO)

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post #18 of 132

A few days ago my Mum spilled tea all over her Dell laptop, it looks pretty 'Done' to me, have some issues now.
So I've given her my 2010 11inch air, hopefully a haswell 13 rMBP could be my replacement :D better integrated GPU, bring it on.

post #19 of 132
Just stop. Please. Intel's GPU on-die with the CPU will never compete with AMD or [Nvidia].

Really? Because economies of scale surely suggest that it will in a few more years.

We've seen this kind of story repeat for various architectures all the time...
post #20 of 132
They will likely have nVidia discrete GPU on the higher-end model especially if 4K graphics are part of the upgrade. 4K would also imply Thunderbolt 2. PCIe SSD and 802.11ac will definitely be part of the package. Waiting to replace my trusty 2006 15" MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo).
post #21 of 132
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
Just stop. Please. Intel's GPU on-die with the CPU will never compete with AMD or Intel.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, because it was my bubble up until a few months ago, too, but that's not… entirely accurate. Give it ~two years, at least on Apple products.

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post #22 of 132
I want Intel to compete with AMD and nVidia however I still think customers should be able to have access to an Apple notebook with top level graphics unless that will just be for the iMac. My fear is that they will cut discrete graphics for that as well.
post #23 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

I want Intel to compete with AMD and nVidia however I still think customers should be able to have access to an Apple notebook with top level graphics unless that will just be for the iMac. My fear is that they will cut discrete graphics for that as well.

How about if we stick to reality instead of someone's imagination?
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post #24 of 132
I hope the still continue selling the MacBook Pro Retina model. Why would they discontinue it anyways? Hope Apple does not discontinue this retina model. If they had to choose; I pick the non-retina to discontinue!
post #25 of 132
Maybe, do y'all have a guess of battery these things will pack?
post #26 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

How about if we stick to reality instead of someone's imagination?

And you say I'm not sticking with reality, check below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

I hope the still continue selling the MacBook Pro Retina model. Why would they discontinue it anyways? Hope Apple does not discontinue this retina model. If they had to choose; I pick the non-retina to discontinue!
post #27 of 132
Whoah!

So not even a discrete GPU for the 15-inch model, is that what's being predicted?

How would this compare to the current configuration which includes and NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5?

My iMac is 4-years-old at the end of the year. I was hoping to jump to a pro portable with a really solid discrete GPU. Perhaps combining a refurb discount on the existing model with the black friday sale and reclaiming the sales tax when I travel overseas will prove to be the most potent combination.
post #28 of 132

Apple please give us an dGPU option. 

 

I think all the professional users will be on their knees praying for it.

post #29 of 132
I like the idea that you have a light notebook with decent GPU for movies and most of the work you do. And when its not good enough, you will plug external beast thru Thunderbolt port... Same goes with SSD. You dont need much (extremely fast) space for everyday work (sure that someone does). When you do, you just plug in more space externally.
I like this on the new MacPro. I already have huge NAS, i jist need very very fast disk for OS and NAS with Thunderbolt2.
post #30 of 132
Intel may not compete with AMD and Nvidia on the Desktop, but for mobile the Iris 5200 is more optimized for professional work (since it has more compute then fill rate) then the gaming oriented chips made by AMD and Nvidia. Intel's drivers have been improving over time. I think it will be a good update for pros.
post #31 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

So not even a discrete GPU for the 15-inch model, is that what's being predicted?

How would this compare to the current configuration which includes and NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5?

Anandtech tested the Iris Pro GPU against the 650M and the 650M was a bit faster and this is shown on notebookcheck too:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html

The performance is close though and Anandtech found Iris to be faster in many tests with OpenCL, sometimes as much as double the 650M - OpenCL matters more to Apple than gaming performance. NVidia's OpenCL performance isn't all that good.

Iris Pro is getting OpenGL 4 support and OpenCL 1.2 support at launch so it should perform very close to the 650M. There is another rumour that Apple is getting a custom configuration of Iris Pro too. Right now, Apple uses a 45W CPU and a 45W GPU. The Iris Pro CPU is just 55W so they can run it at a higher TDP.

The 650M is last year's GPU so this year's AMD and NVidia GPUs could be 30% faster but Iris would be better for battery life and Apple doesn't have to buy two parts. Apple is already paying to put intel's IGPs into Macbook Pros and paying for an NVidia GPU on top. Iris Pro is a more expensive part but I'd expect they'll save money somewhere.

Someone here has even made a gaming notebook with Iris Pro for $1039:

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/LandingPages/ZeusHercules/

The processor it uses is the $440 i7-4750HQ. The current entry 15" uses the $378 i7-3615QM. I don't know how much an NVidia 650M costs but I doubt it's as low as $62.

People need to get over the idea that integrated graphics are bad things. They have only been bad because they performed poorly in the past and had poor software support. This has changed now. They don't have dedicated graphics memory but neither does the XBox One, which uses 8GB DDR3 with a small amount of fast RAM just like the high-end version of Iris Pro.

If Apple can get the machine drawing 70W at full load vs 95W, it won't need as much cooling. They won't need to do dynamic graphics switching either.
post #32 of 132

The 770M is the current GPU of choice for high end PC laptops & its quite a bit better than the 650m, for some perspective, the Iris Pro GPU is comparable to last years high end mobile discreet GPU, which is actually quite a feat & its really impressive, integrated is closing the gap, interesting times.
I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the 
Iris Pro GPU.

post #33 of 132

My guess, and this should be common sense, is that either Apple sticks with dual GPUs, on integrated and one dedicated, both up to date for the times and prices remain the same.

 

OR

 

Apple goes with the Iris Pro 5200 HD, an optimized custom version would be great, and they forgo the dedicated chip but lower the price of the machine by at least 100$.

 

External dedicated GPU would be sick in the t1ts. After all they have to get Thunderbolt 2 and 4k support right? Then right around the corner is a 4k thunderbolt display, probably 1999$ because 4000$ for a monitor is not going to sell, especially if the macbook pro has no dedicated GPU...

post #34 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The performance is close though and Anandtech found Iris to be faster in many tests with OpenCL, sometimes as much as double the 650M - OpenCL matters more to Apple than gaming performance.

 

OpenCL matters to Apple?  Really?  Is that why there's no OpenCL support on the current gen 11" MBA, 13" MBA, 13" MBP or Mac Mini? 

 

If it mattered that much to Apple it would have shipped in Lion in 2011 and not two years later in Mavericks in 2013.

 

 

Quote:
Iris Pro is getting OpenGL 4 support and OpenCL 1.2 support at launch so it should perform very close to the 650M. There is another rumour that Apple is getting a custom configuration of Iris Pro too. Right now, Apple uses a 45W CPU and a 45W GPU. The Iris Pro CPU is just 55W so they can run it at a higher TDP.

 

The HD4000 has OpenCL 1.2 support as well.

 

Whether we see OpenCL on Iris Pro at launch depends on when Mavericks ships.  It makes sense to ship Mavericks with the new laptops but DP5 was a bit flakey.  Haven't played with DP6 but it could be anywhere from late september to Christmas before Mavericks is GM.  I hear they broke Airplay in DP6 and some folks see freezes they didn't in DP5.  Plus Safari, iTunes, etc are still having issues.

 

My expectation is that if we see Haswell updates in September that they'll come with a free upgrade to Mavericks later and Mavericks ships with the Mac Pro.

 

So there's no certainty of OpenCL at launch and probably not unless you upgrade to Mavericks.  The odds that they'll backport the OpenCL drivers to ML is low.

post #35 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the Iris Pro GPU.

 

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the 13" MBP doesn't get a discrete GPU option.  If the 15" goes that route that would simply suck big time.

post #36 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

The 770M is the current GPU of choice for high end PC laptops & its quite a bit better than the 650m, for some perspective, the Iris Pro GPU is comparable to last years high end mobile discreet GPU, which is actually quite a feat & its really impressive, integrated is closing the gap, interesting times.

I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the 

Iris Pro GPU.

The 770m is a 75W GPU. Apple ships their 15" laptops with 85W power supplies. There's a laptop here with a 770m and if you skip to 24:20, you can see the power brick sitting on the desk:



Yes, there are macho guys that don't care about the size of the power brick or the size and thickness of the laptop and would gladly pay $3000 for one made of concrete with as much raw power as possible and carry it around on their backs all day no problem but Apple doesn't sell those kind of machines. Here's a video of a hardcore gamer trying to repair his overheating laptop with a 770m, which overheated after gaming on it for 5 minutes. His repair technique is quite technical - note the heavy nasal breathing; your average consumer wouldn't know to do this:



A 770m would be as much as 2x faster than Apple's Iris Pro config but that was the case last year with the 680MX in the iMac vs the 650M. If Iris Pro performs well for OpenCL (and it does), then there's no problem in them using it. The option they'd have gone with otherwise would have been the 750m and the 750m is a rebadge of the 650m. AMD is doing a rebadge this year too. The 750m isn't that much better than Iris 5200:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-750M.90245.0.html

If the 5200 there is the stock clock speeds and Apple gets a faster configuration (potentially 25% faster), there's not really much point in paying for the dedicated GPU. The leaked benchmark shows i7-4950HQ:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2139563

That's a $657 processor and won't go in the entry 15" model. It also has iris Pro, which I assume they wouldn't bother to pay extra for if they were going to use a dedicated GPU on top - they'd go for a cheaper processor with some lower IGP part.

I think people will be happy with the performance of it at the price points they hit, especially when it will have extended battery life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht 
Is that why there's no OpenCL support on the current gen 11" MBA, 13" MBA, 13" MBP or Mac Mini?

Not on the GPU but they have weak GPUs. OpenCL is supported on the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht 
So there's no certainty of OpenCL at launch and probably not unless you upgrade to Mavericks. The odds that they'll backport the OpenCL drivers to ML is low.

Given the move to OpenGL 4, I doubt these machines will ship with Mountain Lion. There was a release reported recently here with no know issues:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-seeds-os-x-mavericks-developer-preview-5-1085-beta-6

Even if there are issues that crop up, it sounds like they are close enough to master for shipping in 2 weeks or so.
post #37 of 132
Keep in mind that the Razer Blade/Blade Pro don't even have a 770M. Both have a 765M.
post #38 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Given the move to OpenGL 4, I doubt these machines will ship with Mountain Lion. There was a release reported recently here with no know issues:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-seeds-os-x-mavericks-developer-preview-5-1085-beta-6

Even if there are issues that crop up, it sounds like they are close enough to master for shipping in 2 weeks or so.

 

LOL.  I just gave you a few issues and you claim there's no issues?  Even the dev notes show issues (that I won't repeat here).  Just googling DP6 issues show quite a few results.

 

DP5 was flakey.  The scrolling bug sucked.  DP6 has issues with AirPlay, Safari, Java and iTunes.  USB in Parallels is broken.  Some folks are still getting the scrolling bug but not as often.  Office 11 doesn't install or works weird.  OpenGL drivers as 4.1 but only 2 out of 12 OpenGL 4.2 features.

 

 

(from macrumors)

 

GM in 2 weeks?  No.  I'll be very surprised if there isn't a DP 7 and they go straight to GM from here.

post #39 of 132
Originally Posted by nht View Post

USB in Parallels is broken. Office 11 doesn't install or works weird.

 

How are these bugs? Why would Apple give a crap about this?


OpenGL drivers as 4.1 but only 2 out of 12 OpenGL 4.2 features.

 

 

Also not a bug. They obviously don't intend to support further than that yet. At least it isn't OpenGL 2 like Mountain Lion.

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post #40 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

How are these bugs? Why would Apple give a crap about this?

 

The scroll bug is a bug.  And Apple doesn't care about breaking Airplay?  Since when?

 

Make you a bet...if Apple goes GM with Mavericks in 2 weeks I'll leave the forum.  If it doesn't, you leave the forum.  Deal?

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