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Will the new Mac mini have a new design ? (more like an Intel Nuc?)

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 

What do you think?

post #2 of 46

Wait and you will see.
 

post #3 of 46
It has an external power supply and that design couldn't accommodate a quad-core i7 nor dual hard drives. If they move to a PCIe SSD + single HDD (which I think they should but have just an HDD in the entry model), they might be able to shrink it down a bit but the large fan inside is going to limit how small it can get.
post #4 of 46

No. They just got a new design.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #5 of 46

The Mini just got a new design? No, it didn't.

 

The Mini was last updated in October of 2012, and retained essentially the same form factor since the removal of the SuperDrive in 2011.

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post #6 of 46
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
The Mini just got a new design? No, it didn't.

 

Yeah, it did, in the grand scheme of things.


The Mini was last updated in October of 2012, and retained essentially the same form factor since the removal of the SuperDrive in 2011.

 

And the design before the current one existed for over five years, what makes you think this three year old design is going to change? What reason does it have to change. The MacBook Pro had the same design for six years. The Mac Pro had the same design for ten years. The MacBook had the same design for four years. The iMac had the same design for four, three, three, and five years, respectively. The Mac Mini won't be getting a new design. Not for a long time.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What reason does it have to change.

 

Well there's this shiny black thing coming this fall that's likely going to be crazy expensive.

 

If it does start at $2799, that may convince Apple to take a risk and push the Mini forward a bit. (Apple no doubt still loves its sealed box iMacs, but there are people that don't do AIOs.)

 

Also, with TB2, USB 3.1 and 802.11ac updates necessary, they might see the need to update the chassis a bit. (If carmakers can update cars every three years, I doubt it's a problem for Apple to change the dimensions of a small brick.)

 

Marvin: What makes you think the Mini has an external power supply?

My understanding is that it's internal.

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post #8 of 46
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Well there's this shiny black thing coming this fall that's likely going to be crazy expensive.

 

The Mac Mini and Mac Pro have completely different audiences. They haven nothing to do with one another and are dependent on one another for nothing. They have never had any association.


Also, with TB2, USB 3.1 and 802.11ac updates necessary, they might see the need to update the chassis a bit.

 

Why? It will look exactly like it does now. Absolutely nothing needs changed. You swap the Thunderbolt port for Thunderbolt 2. You swap the USB 2 for USB 3. You swap the 802.11n card for an 802.11ac card. None of that requires any manner of change to the case.


(If carmakers can update cars every three years, I doubt it's a problem for Apple to change the dimensions of a small brick.)

 

Can? Who cares. The question is should.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why? It will look exactly like it does now. Absolutely nothing needs changed. You swap the Thunderbolt port for Thunderbolt 2. You swap the USB 2 for USB 3. You swap the 802.11n card for an 802.11ac card. None of that requires any manner of change to the case.

 

By that logic, Apple just wasted time redesigning the Pro. They could have just dropped everything into the old cheese grater case.

 

Also, no-one really needed the iMac to be just millimetres thick. The Apple TV has changed dimensions in the recent past as well.

 

This isn't the 90's anymore.

With 3D printers and efficient manufacturing techniques, redesigning a case isn't the wallet-draining exercise it used to be.

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post #10 of 46
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

By that logic, Apple just wasted time redesigning the Pro.

 

Not at all, no. Explain what changes from Ivy Bridge to Haswell that demands a brand new case on the Mac Mini? Nothing whatsoever.


Also, no-one really needed the iMac to be just millimetres thick.

 

A very short-sighted belief.


The Apple TV has changed dimensions in the recent past as well.

 

Except that had an actual reason; why are you doing this? Change for the sake of change is idiotic.


This isn't the 90's anymore.

With 3D printers and efficient manufacturing techniques, redesigning a case isn't the wallet-draining exercise it used to be.

 

That has nothing to do with anything.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 

A very short-sighted belief.

Other than just being a contrarian, why should a desktop computer be so thin when there are real-world concerns (heat issues mainly) that a couple extra millimeters would only help aleviate?  It's already sacrificed any sort of air vents in the name of form over function.

post #12 of 46
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post
Other than just being a contrarian

 

Take maybe five seconds and think about some possibilities before dismissing them. It's going multitouch, for heaven's sake.


…why should a desktop computer be so thin when there are real-world concerns (heat issues mainly)…

 

Any complaints from anyone so far? Are the computers destroying themselves? No? Then it doesn't matter.


…any sort of air vents…

 

Try looking at the computer.

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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not at all, no. Explain what changes from Ivy Bridge to Haswell that demands a brand new case on the Mac Mini? Nothing whatsoever.
While I tend to agree with you that the Minis current design isn't that old, I do believe that the ove to Haswell may stimulated need for a change. For one thing Haswell desktop processors are almost in the same thermal ball park as the Minis current mobile selections. If they redesigned the Mini for better thermal mamangement Apple could switch to cheaper desktop processors. At the low end of the desktop Haswell lineup it would be a wash thermally but the higher end would need a better power supply and cooling systems.
Quote:
A very short-sighted belief.

Except that had an actual reason; why are you doing this? Change for the sake of change is idiotic.
Except in the case of flagging sales.
Quote:
That has nothing to do with anything.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If they redesigned the Mini for better thermal management Apple could switch to cheaper desktop processors.

 

This probably isn't going to happen. Apple keeps the Mini on mobile processors to allow for economies of scale when purchasing from Intel.

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post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

This probably isn't going to happen. Apple keeps the Mini on mobile processors to allow for economies of scale when purchasing from Intel.

Some believe that but I think the bigger issue with the Mini has been power management. Mobile processors from Intel where the only way to offer decent performance in that small box. In other words the Minis size dictated going to mobile chips sets.

The other side of the coin is that the IMac now uses desktop processors so any cost savings to be had there has gone up in smoke.
post #16 of 46
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7021/introducing-the-dualcore-haswell-skus <--- What's the deal exactly with these?

Err they are dual core chips! There is no deal to speak of.

Sadly the article highlights how out of control Intel has become with part labeling. I3, i5, & i7 so overlap and mix features it is hard to tell what you are getting with anyone part anymore.
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Err they are dual core chips! There is no deal to speak of.

Sadly the article highlights how out of control Intel has become with part labeling. i3, i5, & i7 so overlap and mix features it is hard to tell what you are getting with anyone part anymore.

When are they coming out though? There is no info anywhere it seems.
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

When are they coming out though? There is no info anywhere it seems.

Intel has a whole bunch of chips coming out in September.
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Intel has a whole bunch of chips coming out in September.

If I choose to buy, I would prefer having Iris or Iris Pro graphics in the mini however if not then I would like to get an idea of when the dual core processors with HD4600 graphics are out.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

If I choose to buy, I would prefer having Iris or Iris Pro graphics in the mini however if not then I would like to get an idea of when the dual core processors with HD4600 graphics are out.

I still think you have a long wait. Apple launches iPhone in September so I'd be surprised if we see a new machine from Apple before the end of September. Then again you never really know with Apple.

As for the Mini the upsell model does need Iris of some sort in it. Quad cores too. Quad cores is currently the sweet spot for the above average home user.
post #22 of 46
Quad cores and an SSD. Alas I will not be putting my own SSD in the mini this time.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Quad cores and an SSD. Alas I will not be putting my own SSD in the mini this time.

If the new Haswell chips are out early in September I could see Apple doing a quiet launch before the big iPhone reveal. I just have this sense that Apple is waiting on other things, possibly TB 2. TB 2 would do wonders for both the iMac and the Mini. The other wild card is the Mac Pro, I can see Apple using its launch as a vehicle to introduce a completely new Mini or a replacement for it. Nobody knows for sure when the Mac Pro will come either, however I believe the chips Apple will use will also become available in September.

September / October is going to be very interesting.
post #24 of 46
They can do an event or a quiet launch, I don't really care. I don't even care if they wait for Thunderbolt 2 but it would certainly be nice as they didn't wait for USB 3 in 2011.

Is TB2 integrated into the Haswell chipset or can it be?

By the way, once the Haswell mini does get announced, I will start the Broadwell mini wishlist 1biggrin.gif
post #25 of 46

Good concept you have.
 

post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Good concept you have.

I sense sarcasm. I'm impatient, so what can I say. Haswell is out, so let's roll out the 2013 mini.
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

They can do an event or a quiet launch, I don't really care. I don't even care if they wait for Thunderbolt 2 but it would certainly be nice as they didn't wait for USB 3 in 2011.
All good things take time. However sometimes I do wonder if Apple is just plain stupid when it ones to releasing machines. It would be extremely sad if the new Mini comes with chips that have been available for six months now.
Quote:
Is TB2 integrated into the Haswell chipset or can it be?
I don't believe so. It is my understanding that Intel may attempt to integrate TB into chip sets in the future. I look at it this way TB2 hasn't even been released yet while Haswell has been on the market for sometime.
Quote:
By the way, once the Haswell mini does get announced, I will start the Broadwell mini wishlist 1biggrin.gif

So you are that type of guy?

Broadwell could be another one of those very interesting updates that only seem to happen ever four years or so. The process shrink will give Intel an incredible amount of room to work with. To this end I expect to see a variety of SoC solutions along with more conventional GPU / CPU combos.

That will all be interesting of course but why get too wrapped up in it if you have just purchased a new Mini? It seems like a way to make yourself dissatisfied with your current hardware.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

So you are that type of guy?

Broadwell could be another one of those very interesting updates that only seem to happen ever four years or so. The process shrink will give Intel an incredible amount of room to work with. To this end I expect to see a variety of SoC solutions along with more conventional GPU / CPU combos.

That will all be interesting of course but why get too wrapped up in it if you have just purchased a new Mini? It seems like a way to make yourself dissatisfied with your current hardware.

It's going to become like a tradition almost for as long as I am on this board or as long as it lasts. The Mac mini has become my favorite and I am not looking to buy one every year, hell I am not guaranteed to get a 2013 model though I am always looking forward to what comes down the pike and what Intel and Apple can do. For me I am all about the desktops. I would say my interest is with the mini, Pro, and iMac in that order. I don't have a need for a Pro really because I don't do enough on it. It would be like having a car with a V8 engine (my current car is a V6 and serves me well) and using it to go to the grocery store.

A quad core mobile computer is enough for me right now.

By the way, I was looking at this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaQ-__ewo2I

What would the Iris Pro be of the 650M if (according to that graph) the 9400M was 55% supposedly of the 8600M GT?
post #29 of 46

It may be unrealistic, but Samsung's going to announce a smart watch on Sept 4.

 

Given that the recent fixation on smart watches started with a rumour out of Cupertino, I doubt that Apple will let Sept 4 pass with the entire news cycle devoted to Samsung.

 

Mac Mini update on Wednesday?

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post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It may be unrealistic, but Samsung's going to announce a smart watch on Sept 4.

Given that the recent fixation on smart watches started with a rumour out of Cupertino, I doubt that Apple will let Sept 4 pass with the entire news cycle devoted to Samsung.

Mac Mini update on Wednesday?

The reason that Samsung is doing it on September 4th though is to try and one-up Apple. There are hilarious blog posts online already where they display such a cognitive dissonance in that they are being ultra-critical of the idea of an iWatch despite Apple not even hinting they are making a watch and saying it will fail before they do it and it will be a useless product but they follow it up by saying 'anyway Samsung and Google are doing it first and it will probably be cheaper anyway'. In other words, if anybody but Apple makes a smartwatch, they are innovating and doing it first but if Apple makes one then it'll fail. Honestly, some people just try to hate Apple too much. People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Sony has a watch out, Samsung is late to the party ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpPKygXfNmc ).

As for the Mini, there's a Thunderbolt 2 motherboard been announced by Asus:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/08/21/new.z87.deluxe.quad.motherboard.features.16.usb.ports.thunderbolt.2/

so I don't think they're waiting on that but we've still got to hear about the dual-core i5 and i7 Haswell CPUs:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7021/introducing-the-dualcore-haswell-skus

The entry Mini can't come out until those do. The quad-i7 model should be ready to go:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75117/Intel-Core-i7-4700MQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz

I expect the dual-cores will arrive September 10th as Intel has an event.
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I expect the dual-cores will arrive September 10th as Intel has an event.

That's what I needed to hear! Thank you sir. Gives me a glimmer of hope!
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

It's going to become like a tradition almost for as long as I am on this board or as long as it lasts. The Mac mini has become my favorite and I am not looking to buy one every year, hell I am not guaranteed to get a 2013 model though I am always looking forward to what comes down the pike and what Intel and Apple can do. For me I am all about the desktops. I would say my interest is with the mini, Pro, and iMac in that order. I don't have a need for a Pro really because I don't do enough on it.
That has never stopped anybody before.
Quote:
It would be like having a car with a V8 engine (my current car is a V6 and serves me well) and using it to go to the grocery store.

A quad core mobile computer is enough for me right now.

By the way, I was looking at this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaQ-__ewo2I

What would the Iris Pro be of the 650M if (according to that graph) the 9400M was 55% supposedly of the 8600M GT?
That iS the thing, benchmarks are over the place. If you look at some OpenCL benchmarks Iris demolishes the competition. Of course these are not Mac OS benchmarks. So answering your question would be guess work at the very least, the big unknown here is Mavericks and Apples new drivers.

Edited for nasty formatting mistake.

While I'm here, one thing to contemplate is that the Mini could have shipped already if they where going to do a simple update. The long delay for the Mini and the iMac tend to support that Apple is waiting on those new haswell's in September.
Edited by wizard69 - 9/1/13 at 12:22pm
post #33 of 46
At most, I'm looking to spend maybe $800 for the updated model if it follows the same price ranges as last year. More than likely, I will settle for the base model.

In other words, my budget is not a Mac Pro budget.
Edited by Winter - 9/1/13 at 9:28pm
post #34 of 46

Hopefully with your price you can purchase the new Mac Mini when it comes out soon.
 

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Hopefully with your price you can purchase the new Mac Mini when it comes out soon.

And why wouldn't I be able to?
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

And why wouldn't I be able to?

Maybe you won't like the refactoring.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Maybe you won't like the refactoring.

Explain.
post #38 of 46

Don't be on the defensive please.I am not knocking you financially at all.
 

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Explain.

You are assuming that the next Mini will look like today's Mini. My point is that it is not a given that this will be the case. Why would Apple overhaul the platform. There are a few reasons:
  1. The new Mac Pro is arriving! They may try to pop up flagging Mini sales by riding the coat tails of the Mac Pro launch with a new form factor.
  2. The very fact that sales are slow (an understatement) is incentive enough to rev the platform.
  3. Haswell is a very interesting platform in both the desktop and mobile variants. However in both cases a little more power capability would go a very long way to making an extremely attractive Mini. In other words the upsell model could have middle of the road performance.
  4. Lenovo now has an equivalent of the Mini. Apple likes unique so this could be an incentive. Plus they could easily leverage their thermal design of the Mac Pro in a smaller design. A Mac Pro lite machine if you will.
  5. There is also the possibility that Apple will regress with the new Mini and not give it the sort of update we are all waiting for. Due to poor sales they could pull some former Mac Pro behaviors and phone in the Mini update.

In the end there are a whole host of possibilities including killing the platform altogether. Best not to get too wrapped up in the hardware until it is actually here.
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Don't be on the defensive please. I am not knocking you financially at all.

Oh I'm not and besides I can always save up. I just thought that was a peculiar statement.

wizard69 - Form factor is not really an issue though price is. If Apple wants to change the form factor, I have no issue, especially if they make it black. If they make it a bright color say like the bright blue iMac then I will pass.

Edit: Okay I found the information I was finally looking for regarding the dual core i5 processors with the HD 4600 graphics. They are scheduled for a Q4 release this year according to the official Intel website which is probably where I should have looked from the very beginning.
Edited by Winter - 9/3/13 at 10:39am
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