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Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer calls it quits, to retire within a year - Page 8

post #281 of 315
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Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


People who keep repeating that Microsoft is doomed. Quite a few around here.

Re their mobile strategy - they are late, but they do have good foundations in their existing (corporate-oriented) ecosystem. Really much deeper than iTunes/idevices one. True they could fail to monetize on that, but... it is not realistic to expect.

I think Google is aware of that perfectly well, thus their hostility toward Windows Phone 8 (and tablets outside of classic desktop).


Hmmmm...

 

If Microsoft fails to adapt, the way that IBM was able to adapt, well... Unisys comes to mind.


Edited by island hermit - 8/25/13 at 1:01pm
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post #282 of 315
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Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

There's no tech guru on the loose that would take this job. A tech guru would start up his own business and sell it to MS or Google for way more money than this job would make. He could sell it to Apple but Apple doesn't over pay for things.

BUT...
I know of a tech guru who started his own company, and when it failed to find commercial success, his sold the remains of his company's intellectual property to Apple for just $400 million. And then he became iCEO of Apple. In other words: HE TOOK THE JOB. Can you guess the person I am dropping clues about?

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post #283 of 315
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Apologies if this has already been highlighted. 

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241867/Ballmer_forced_out_after_900M_Surface_RT_debacle

Ballmer forced out after $900M Surface RT debacle

Steve Ballmer was forced out of his CEO chair by Microsoft's board of directors, who hit the roof when the company took a $900 million write-off to account for an oversupply of the firm's struggling Surface RT tablet, an analyst argued today.



 



"He was definitely pushed out by the board," said Patrick Moorhead, principal analyst with Moor Insights & Strategy, in an interview Friday. "They either drove him out, or put him in a situation where he felt he had to leave to save face."



 



The biggest clue that Ballmer was pushed and didn't leave of his own free will was the 12-month timetable Microsoft said it would use to find a CEO successor. "Typically, a board will be working behind the scenes for a replacement, but they've given themselves 12 months," said Moorhead. "I think this went down very quickly."



 




For me, the biggest clue was the interview he gave to ZDnet's Mary Jo Foley. When asked what he was going to do when he retired he said he hadn't thought about it. That he's hadn't had time to think about it. And unlike Bill Gates, who announced his retirement date and had his succession plan years in advance, Ballmer said "his" decision to retire now was reached very quickly within the last month or so. He was absolutely pushed to retire now. And I assume the reason is something very public and hard to hide, such as the $0.9 billion write down of Surface RT stock.

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post #284 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.

What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...

What do they do with Word?

What do they do with Excel?

Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?


I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?

If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?


Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.

In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.

Dick, are these comments about iWork accurate as far as your personal knowledge?

"Apple's iWork in the cloud can be useful for teams that must collaborate on documents or simply for working with your own documents from whatever internet-connected device is handy -- your own or someone else's. You can drag-and-drop iWork documents from your Mac to iCloud or create new documents entirely via a web browser.

The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.

Also, it doesn't appear that you can publish iWork documents to the web, where you can link to them and anyone can view them -- a popular feature of Google Docs. Apple may add this and other features later."
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post #285 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.

What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...

What do they do with Word?

What do they do with Excel?

Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?


I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?

If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?


Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.

In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.


RE what is Office Used for? It's a complex question because I think the answer encompasses a very, very wide range of uses but I have seen multi billion dollar companies' IT departments use Excel to create flat, simple (and horribly limited) databases that they insist everyone train and use …the use of Word to make horrible documents and / or PDFs that totally screw up when opened with anything else …

All too often companies are held hostage to the limited knowledge and head in sand attitude of their IT departments (aka MIS to me back then) who are fiercely defensive of the hard learned MS certifications and against change. I'm sure you remember well the old days when IT started blocking Apple ]['s terminal emulation to talk to their Minis and Main Frames once the PC came out? That was when it all began … One other example of IT holding back progress is the use of interactive web sites dependent Internet Explorer use … utterly horrible again and I am glad to say on the decline. Only this year, yes 2013, Central West Florida's Real Estate Boards are starting to use MLS database systems that work on Macs and Safari albeit they are as buggy as hell and terribly designed.

All the above is on the wane, mainly thanks to iOS but many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …

I'm sure there is a movie in this … 1wink.gif
Edited by digitalclips - 8/25/13 at 12:07pm
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post #286 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I'm kinda on the fence with an idea like this.

Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.

Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.

At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.

Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions. 

Yes! There is a huge opportunity here!

My worry is, if they bolster iWorks it will always have that low end if friendly label. A pro version seems to be the answer to me. I also like the idea posted here of making the iCloud versions linkable with in web sites as with Google Docs. Both Google and Apple have been guilty of dropping things after they have been running a while and I know I have been left in the lurch having implemented things from Google docs across multiple web sites only to have Google decide to drop or drastically change things on me. same with Apple and Mobile me and even [dot] Mac before that.

p.s. why do I only ever see the hilarious changes auto correction in OS X makes after I post, never before?
Edited by digitalclips - 8/25/13 at 10:48am
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post #287 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.

What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...

What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
 

 

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

 

Sadly, in my opinion. These applications, particularly the newest versions aren't better, just busier and fussier than ever. The Office Ribbon was supposed to fix that, but it ended up hiding features that used to be right there in a toolbar button. I've been using it for several years and I still have to google for answers about where something is hidden in the Ribbon. I actually suggested to Microsoft that they replace the Ribbon with a google search field, because more often than not, that's how I use the Ribbon. PowerPoint crashes on a regular basis (sometimes just opening documents), and Visio to a lesser degree. Outlook is absolutely the most fussy & bloated email client, and it regularly crashes or locks up for me. I thought the old Outlook Express from the early days was simpler and more fit for its purpose.

 

The problem is that Microsoft has locked-in corporations, which have standardized their inter-office document exchange on Office file formats. People email or share Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents as a method of daily communication. Printing and faxing are largely replaced with emailing documents, but for many white collar jobs, Microsoft Office is really the only thing they have open and running all day.

 

In theory, you just need an Office clone that runs well and can read & write all Office documents natively and without loss of features. In other words, full Office compatibility. That's not a easily as it sounds, and while there are many office clones out there, they never quite achieved 100% transparent document interoperability. I tried to go Microsoft-free several years ago (I chose ThinkFree Office because it was commercially licensed, and had the most polish), but ended up buying Mac Office because there were issues related to document compatibility. (After I switched to Mountain Lion, I stopped using Mac Office altogether).

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post #288 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.

What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...

What do they do with Word?

What do they do with Excel?

Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?


I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?

If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?


Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.

In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.

Dick, are these comments about iWork accurate as far as your personal knowledge?

Everything I have been posting about iWorks is true to my knowledge. I have tried and most of the features I posted about (except auto-hyphenation in Pages). One of the biggest downsides to iWorks, IMO, is the lack of feature parity in iWorks across all platforms. OS X iWorks has more than enough features to satisfy our needs -- but I'd like to be able to access those documents on my iPad or from iCloud. If you use features like Bezier Curves/Shape Masks, language support, Video content (Pages) or Categories (Numbers) -- I think you should be able to use them on iOS devices and iCloud. I think they are quite doable -- and have submitted feature requests. I just hope they do them. I realize my needs are different than users such as @Gazobee -- but his needs are valid too. Realistically, though, I doubt that most users would need the features to satisfy either of our needs.

Quote:

"Apple's iWork in the cloud can be useful for teams that must collaborate on documents or simply for working with your own documents from whatever internet-connected device is handy -- your own or someone else's. You can drag-and-drop iWork documents from your Mac to iCloud or create new documents entirely via a web browser.

I haven't really used iWorks iCloud for collaboration -- though each user can copy an existing document and work on his own. You do get a notification when a document has changed (is out of sync with your copy). That seems to work pretty well. Somewhere in my experimenting with Pages, I ran across versioning or change logging -- didn't investigate it though.

I retired before the Internet (which made online collaboration feasible) -- so I don't have much experience. The only hands-on I have with collaboration: In 2008 I was writing an iPhone app that an Estimator for a moving company could take on site to prepare a quote in semi-real-time. The Estimator would walk around the house and enter items into the iPhone: 4 barstools -- tap the barstool button in the Barstool table entry 4 times... Tap, Tap, Tap... when all the items had been entered, the data was sent to the mover where a formal quote was prepared using proprietary software on a PC.

Anyway, I wanted to understand how the quote was prepared -- so the client fired up "Go To Meeting" and demoed the process... It was pretty slick! Unfortunately, he had neglected to disable input from my end -- I was able to push buttons on his screen... So, I did -- and screwed up the whole process... Sigh, first lesson learned.

Quote:

The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.

I don't know that you need to own an Apple device to get an Apple ID... You can get iTunes on Windows at no cost -- and you need an Apple ID to access the Apple Store... but you don't need to buy anything.

However, as it stands how, you need an iCloud account for what we're discussing: 1) free when you purchase an Apple device;   2) paid $25/yr subscription to iCloud, for iTunes match.

Quote:
Also, it doesn't appear that you can publish iWork documents to the web, where you can link to them and anyone can view them -- a popular feature of Google Docs. Apple may add this and other features later."

Yes iWorks presently is a closed system... But things like FCPX allow you to "share" with Vimeo and YT -- so it could be added later.
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post #289 of 315
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Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


I'm sure there is a movie in this … 1wink.gif

Ha! You do the choreography and sound editing -- I'll do the video editing... Cannes here we come!
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post #290 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Ha! You do the choreography and sound editing -- I'll do the video editing... Cannes here we come!


If they can cast Kutcher as Jobs then Jonah Hill sounds about right for Ballmer. (remembering, of course, that Jackie Coogan has been dead for almost 30 years)


Edited by island hermit - 8/25/13 at 1:24pm
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post #291 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

What do you mean "Post screwed up"??? How???

As in .. I screwed it up ... I accidentally deleted the end of quote marks so mushed everything up and also must have accidentally hit an option or control key and had strike through everywhere ... it was a mess and easier to start over but you can't delete once posted I had to type something ... I was in hurry too ...


I'm having a lot of problems too... it locks up and doesn't come back -- or just disappears. Don't know who's at fault: Me. Mavericks, Safari or AI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I'm kinda on the fence with an idea like this.

Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.

Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.

At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.

Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions. 

Yes! There is a huge opportunity here!

My worry is, if they bolster iWorks it will always have that low end if friendly label. A pro version seems to be the answer to me. I also like the idea posted here of making the iCloud versions linkable with in web sites as with Google Docs. Both Google and Apple have been guilty of dropping things after they have been running a while and I know I have been left in the lurch having implemented things from Google docs across multiple web sites only to have Google decide to drop or drastically change things on me. same with Apple and Mobile me and even [dot] Mac before that.

p.s. why do I only ever see the hilarious changes auto correction in OS X makes after I post, never before?


Is a pro version of iWorks really needed? The majority of new and non-pro users would never use the features. And I don't see the Spreadsheet Jockeys and DTP Pimps (no slur intended) leaving the safety of their Office apps for anything equal or slightly better.

Those uses will need to be disrupted and replaced by something that blows away the need for them ala VisiCalc!

As someone who had an Apple Dealership 7/10 of a mile from Apple HQ for 11 1/2 years... I, too, have been torpedoed by Apple dropping things after an enthusiastic start. All-in-all I prefer Apple abandoning things to MS continually dragging legacy baggage along.


BTW, you forgot free iTools!

Edit: Am I the only troll on this thread?
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post #292 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Maybe they will get Phil Schiller he is a joke anyway!

 

"Phil's a joke" "My ass!"


Yes!

When Apple senior management began to emerge from the shadow of Steve Jobs, Phil was the one I was least impressed with... Where did they get this guy? Why? What does he bring to the table?

But in the presence of Jobs, the room becomes very small -- most people must adapt, bide their time -- then exploit opportunities as they are encountered or developed.

Watching Phil in public appearances -- I like what I see. He manages worldwide marketing for the largest corporation in the world (market cap) and runs a very tight and effective organization under what, likely, was a very difficult leader to work for.

Phil survived and He and Apple prospered as a result of his contributions. He never embarrassed Apple and was never Sinofskyed.


I liken his accomplishments to those of Albert Speer in the final years of the Third Reich -- while the Allies were methodically destroying their manufacturing capacity -- actual production was increasing under Speer's management! He did this by establishing little democracies and competition -- in the biggest autocracy in existence...

No small accomplishments!

"I seen my opportunities, and I took 'em"
-- Boss Tweed --


"I'm a Mac... I'm a PC."
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/25/13 at 1:46pm
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post #293 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


...many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …

I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.

 

Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.

 

Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.

post #294 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Everything I have been posting about iWorks is true to my knowledge.

Oh, sorry for not being clearer! In no way was I questioning your comments. I totally trust whatever you post is the truth, so my sincere apologies if you thought otherwise.

The question was in regard to the quote that followed, not the comments you had previously made.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/25/13 at 6:42pm
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post #295 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'm having a lot of problems too... it locks up and doesn't come back -- or just disappears. Don't know who's at fault: Me. Mavericks, Safari or AI?
Is a pro version of iWorks really needed? The majority of new and non-pro users would never use the features. And I don't see the Spreadsheet Jockeys and DTP Pimps (no slur intended) leaving the safety of their Office apps for anything equal or slightly better.

Those uses will need to be disrupted and replaced by something that blows away the need for them ala VisiCalc!

As someone who had an Apple Dealership 7/10 of a mile from Apple HQ for 11 1/2 years... I, too, have been torpedoed by Apple dropping things after an enthusiastic start. All-in-all I prefer Apple abandoning things to MS continually dragging legacy baggage along.


BTW, you forgot free iTools!

Edit: Am I the only troll on this thread?

Oh yes, iTools! I did forget that.

By the way I just had fun in Mavericks ... although I think it was MagicPrefs getting its knickers in a twist. What ever window i scrolled nothing happened but another would be scrolling in a different app! It was very trippy ... Cured on a reboot ...

This thread is sooooo long ...

My comment about a pro iWorks was related to a way to get the last anti Apple hold outs excuse, being full Office support, out of the way, that's all ... Me, I miss Visicalc, especially on the Apple /// 1smile.gif
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post #296 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.

Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.

Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.

"How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again" ... ???

Sorry not ranting at you 1smile.gif ... But the problem is Gates bought his Q DOS, so no innovation there, and even that was questionable given Digital Research's operating system. I'm sure had Gary Kildall had the money to take on IBM he'd have had quite the law suit. Then Gates purloins Mac OS for Windows and later is helped by that idiot John Sculley giving away the rest. Office had various precursors such as Visicalc and Word Perfect, Gates blatantly stole QuickTime and was let off the hook for a billion dollar law suit by Jobs in return for a measly investment and a marketing agreement ... exactly what software innovative experience has Microsoft ever had to 'become one again'? It never was a software company, it was simply an aggregator of others' work. I don't seeing them 'becoming a software company again' after 30 years unless they rip off someone else.
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post #297 of 315
Look I've had pc when it started and was not able to pay for a mac. Today you buy a mac duel boot it if you want gaming and dare I say windows 7. I'm waiting for Xmas cos it's my first new mac well new. This guy and gates make money well it's now time to go. You did knowing I can't even remember this guy so he must of been a tosser. In 10 years time when they say windows ill smile for a sec only and think how shit it was then think of something better.
post #298 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by n057828 View Post

Look I've had pc when it started and was not able to pay for a mac. Today you buy a mac duel boot it if you want gaming and dare I say windows 7. I'm waiting for Xmas cos it's my first new mac well new. This guy and gates make money well it's now time to go. You did knowing I can't even remember this guy so he must of been a tosser. In 10 years time when they say windows ill smile for a sec only and think how shit it was then think of something better.

Well enjoy your new Mac 1smile.gif
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post #299 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again" ... ???

Sorry not ranting at you 1smile.gif ... But the problem is Gates bought his Q DOS, so no innovation there, and even that was questionable given Digital Research's operating system. I'm sure had Gary Kildall had the money to take on IBM he'd have had quite the law suit. Then Gates purloins Mac OS for Windows and later is helped by that idiot John Sculley giving away the rest. Office had various precursors such as Visicalc and Word Perfect, Gates blatantly stole QuickTime and was let off the hook for a billion dollar law suit by Jobs in return for a measly investment and a marketing agreement ... exactly what software innovative experience has Microsoft ever had to 'become one again'? It never was a software company, it was simply an aggregator of others' work. I don't seeing them 'becoming a software company again' after 30 years unless they rip off someone else.

At this stage of technology, there are not too many things which were not already floating around, in some form or another. They all steal when they can, license or purchase when they cannot.

But I think you should look outside of old '80 DOS/Windows margins, there is a lot of innovation happening in Microsoft (even if there is a lot of borrowing and buying out), albeit consumers are probably not aware of most of them. You can find some info around, of course, if you choose to look for rather than make your beliefs a "fact" 1wink.gif

http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/03/microsoft-invention-factory/

I really don't see Apple, Google... much different. Or at all.
post #300 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

At this stage of technology, there are not too many things which were not already floating around, in some form or another. They all steal when they can, license or purchase when they cannot.

But I think you should look outside of old '80 DOS/Windows margins, there is a lot of innovation happening in Microsoft (even if there is a lot of borrowing and buying out), albeit consumers are probably not aware of most of them. You can find some info around, of course, if you choose to look for rather than make your beliefs a "fact" 1wink.gif


I really don't see Apple, Google... much different. Or at all.

Thanks for the laughs. This from your link ....

"So while Microsoft makes most of its money from Windows and Office, it is definitely pushing the limits of innovation. Some of these mad-science inventions even make their way into products. You can see a direct line from these R&D projects to truly inventive products like the Kinect. The real question, then, is why Microsoft isn’t making better use of all those patents.:

Love that last question .... 1biggrin.gif

I know I know ... the mad inventions from MS that fail or never see the light of day have been endless. I loved the three ton table with a touch surface. The duel screen tablet concept video was a hoot. We should also remember the Apple Knowledge Navigator in the same level of note worthy 'mad-science inventions'.

Oh and Kinect ... look up PrimeSense, an Israeli 3D sensing company based in Tel Aviv. MS fans have even rewritten history to say it was an internal project. 1oyvey.gif
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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post #301 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.

Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.

Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.

"How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again" ... ???

Sorry not ranting at you 1smile.gif ... But the problem is Gates bought his Q DOS, so no innovation there, and even that was questionable given Digital Research's operating system. I'm sure had Gary Kildall had the money to take on IBM he'd have had quite the law suit. Then Gates purloins Mac OS for Windows and later is helped by that idiot John Sculley giving away the rest. Office had various precursors such as Visicalc and Word Perfect, Gates blatantly stole QuickTime and was let off the hook for a billion dollar law suit by Jobs in return for a measly investment and a marketing agreement ... exactly what software innovative experience has Microsoft ever had to 'become one again'? It never was a software company, it was simply an aggregator of others' work. I don't seeing them 'becoming a software company again' after 30 years unless they rip off someone else.

I was going to reply to the OP, but wanted to think about it for a while...

At first it seemed like a reasonable opportunity for MS.

Several thoughts here:

Gates has always meddled in hardware -- remember the Z-80 SoftCard, Language Card and 80-Column Card for the Apple ][?

I believe that Gates always looked at Apple, Steve Jobs and [Apple] hardware with envy.

And remember that Jon Shirley left Tandy/Radio Shack to become President/CEO of Microsoft in 1983-1990 -- Kinda' Gates Eric Schmidt.

Shirley grew MS into a player -- Gates watched, learned and earned his big-boy pants -- AIR, taking over from Shirley until relinquishing control to Ballmer in 2000.

I suspect that Gates was behind the MS Policy of "embrace, extend and extinguish". He couldn't do that in the early days, because Apple was too powerful. Later, with the DOJ looking over his shoulder -- he couldn't do that because MS was too big and Apple too weak.

I suspect that Gates tended to micromanage "technology" in much the same way that Jobs did.

I suspect that Gates, at the very least, gave approval for Xbox, Longhorn/Vista, early Windows tablets, Windows Mobile, Windows 8, Surface, "Windows Everywhere" and the many other fiascos under Ballmer's reign.

I donno', but Gates might have felt that he was mislead -- and one of them had to go... and Gates was going to stay put -- there never was any question.


So, while it might make sense for MS to transition to software and services only -- I agree with @digitalclips: MS will continue to try to put its hands in other peoples' pockets... that includes Apple, Google, Sammy... anyone!


I think that Gates sees in Apple a threat to MS dominance and resents that MS is no-longer the mover and shaker of tech!


Most in tech predict that tablets will dominate the tech segment for the next 5-10 years.

Apple has the OS, the Hardware, the IP, the ecosystem and is rapidly building cloud/services offerings -- so they are a major player with a big bankroll.


One other exclusive that Apple has is a perfectly usable office suite that runs on touch tablets!  MS pissed away 3 years and didn't bring a usable office suite to a tablet -- their Surface/Widnows 8 effort is a resounding failure on the hottest consumer, industry, military, education, enterprise segment -- the touch tablet.

AFAIK, MS still holds the rights to MS Works (developed for MS by Don Williams' company). If so, MS could have ported that to the iPad and had a credible offering that was/is upward compatible with Office on the desktop...


But they didn't, and now it may be too late to offer any MS office suite in the hottest tech segment.


I think the Surface/Windows 8 and Office 385 offerings are just MS' attempt to finesse the situation until they can come up with a "good enough" office suite for touch tablets.


Problem is -- Apple beat 'em to it!
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/25/13 at 6:27pm
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #302 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Thanks for the laughs. This from your link ....

"So while Microsoft makes most of its money from Windows and Office, it is definitely pushing the limits of innovation. Some of these mad-science inventions even make their way into products. You can see a direct line from these R&D projects to truly inventive products like the Kinect. The real question, then, is why Microsoft isn’t making better use of all those patents.:

Love that last question .... 1biggrin.gif

I know I know ... the mad inventions from MS that fail or never see the light of day have been endless. I loved the three ton table with a touch surface. The duel screen tablet concept video was a hoot. We should also remember the Apple Knowledge Navigator in the same level of note worthy 'mad-science inventions'.

Oh and Kinect ... look up PrimeSense, an Israeli 3D sensing company based in Tel Aviv. MS fans have even rewritten history to say it was an internal project. 1oyvey.gif

Yah, it seems we keep entertaining each other. All good.

Re Kinect... "Kinect builds on software technology developed internally by Rare, a subsidiary of Microsoft Game Studios owned by Microsoft, and on range camera technology by Israeli developer PrimeSense...".

Like I said... at this stage of IT, I don't think we will be seeing too many products completely invented from scratch by one company. Apple did not invent capacitive touch screens, for example, but they still deserve a credit for implementing that technology in creation of modern, smooth, sensitive and easy to use devices.
post #303 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Oh, you haven't been following DED's features then? 1smile.gif

By the way, my camera choice isn't about 'brand loyalty' … as with my computer choices, it's about quality, performance and how they empower me to do my thing … hence Canon for DSLRs (got to love those L lenses!) , and Apple for computing and Sony for HD pro video cameras and I am seriously thinking Tesla for next car … Obviously all just my personal opinions in all cases but also based on 35+ years in the tech field mainly as a CEO of various tech based companies in UK and USA. Now semi retired and playing with most of these things 1smile.gif

edit I had to add the + to 35 1frown.gif

DED, eh? Reading, yes. But I find him too biased, too... self-indulging to take him seriously. Most of his features are hardly anything more than extremely one-sided opinion, IMHO.

I didn't say your camera choice is influenced by brand loyalty, so don't take it personal. I'm just saying that I am trying to remain unbiased, without saying that others are not. I don't like to judge people, especially people I basically don't know at all.

Beside Canon Prima Twin being my first film camera (not counting my father's cameras I was using before), Canon PowerShot A40 was my first digital. Nikon was my first dSLR, however, because I already had Nikon F801s - which came to me by pure coincidence - so I saw value in having SLR and dSLR capable of sharing glass, flash units... and I was already familiar with Nikon "interface".

Anyway. Regarding rest of your post, well, good on you.
post #304 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Interesting analysis and it seems to even echo some of the more grounded tech press.

Of the big 3 tech companies MS, Google, and Apple many believe Apple to be the weakest link.

Although I don't personally agree their reasoning and yours as well makes sense.

MS has a strong enterprise presence and don't stand a chance at being replaced there.

Google's bread and butter is search and in that they don't stand a chance at being replaced. Android, Chrome, and all of their other initiatives make them no money and they could survive and thrive without them. Of course Google's biggest challenge would be Baidu.com, but even without China, Google is pretty set regardless of Glass or there other initiates taking off. Of course what the tech press doesn't take into account is if consumers and businesses change their behavior and no longer rely on Google for search. But it seems no one considers that possibility.

Apple on the other hand is fueled by consumers of whom are fickle. Apple's growth and success comes from having the latest must have product and without that they have less stability than MS or Google in the mind of the tech press. And of course people think Apple's ecosystem is replaceable with Amazon's or even Google's but that's still far from true. Apple has proven over the past decades that they are more than just a flash in the pan fad as well.

Anyway, I don't agree with the pundits that write Apple off, but I can at least understand why they would feel that Apple is in a weaker position than even MS.

Thank you.

I don't expect that any of them will go down any time soon - not in my lifetime, anyway. But should that sort of world-wide disaster strike, I'd be surprised to see MS falling first... that's all.

Not that in such situation we all wouldn't have more important things to worry about.
post #305 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.

Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.

Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.

They never stopped being software company.

But it is nature of every successful business in technology to try enter new markets, keep growing. Especially when you are close to theoretical limits of growth in markets you are already populating, and you will agree, I hope, that Microsoft cannot grow much more in desktop, server OS and their core applications.

Why is MS trying to be more than software company is for the same reasons why Apple tried being more than computer manufacturer. At some point, they entered audio gadgets market. TV streaming market. Smartphone market. Tablet market. They did great job with most, not so great with some - Apple TV is only now catching a break after being around for a while - but Apple didn't give up on it after first gen Apple TV didn't explode. Speaking of which, first generation of iPhone hasn't taken the world in a blink of an eye either. But Apple saw potential, did their thing. And did well.

And so, everyone - including MS, albeit with some initial brain-freeze on their side - realise that tablet and smartphone markets are still young, still lots of space to grow, and still lots of milestones to reach. It is still very fresh and dynamic segment, contrary to PC market which is around for much longer and have achieved level of maturity.

It's a new world, really. New frontier. No one cares who found it. Colombo? Vespucci? Good on them. Now go out there and claim as much as you can, for his majesty the stock owner.

Same game, new round.
post #306 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


This quote says it all. Instead of trying to brainwash people into using products he might have been better off finding out why his children wanted to use an iPod or Google (apparently brainwashing was needed to prevent that).

 

But maybe brainwashing (of the general public) had been such a successful strategy in the 90's that he could not envision anything else.

post #307 of 315

Farewell Monkey Boy!!! You'll be solely missed!!! Oh wait... 1oyvey.gif

 


Edited by architecton - 8/26/13 at 5:20pm
post #308 of 315
Apple limiting access to iWork for iCloud beta due to overwhelming response



http://************/2013/08/26/apple-limiting-access-to-iwork-for-icloud-beta-due-to-overwhelming-response/
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- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #309 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.

'Downside, compared to Google...'? The Apple ID is free of charge to create, no device needed. And with Google, I most certainly need to sign up, even giving them my gender. Fortunately, they added a 3rd choice: 'other' which is a nice touch ¡



It even asks for my phone number, whassup wid dat?

post #310 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You keep plugging away on his behalf. Hats off to you sir, I imagine you take in stray cats and dogs too. 1wink.gif

LOL, he is estimated to $11.563 billion, and made extra $769 million with MS stock jump on his announced departure... I certainly wouldn't mind taking this stray under my roof 1wink.gif
post #311 of 315

There is a crazy amount of posts on here, not sure if someone linked this blog or not.

i read it off an Australian news site.

 

its about how Apple could make more money if Steve Ballmer ran apple.

http://stratechery.com/2013/if-steve-ballmer-ran-apple/

post #312 of 315
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

its about how Apple could make more money if Steve Ballmer ran apple.

http://stratechery.com/2013/if-steve-ballmer-ran-apple/


Guy should write for Scoopertino.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #313 of 315
Yes of course MS is not going to go under any time soon if at all, they will be around for a long time BUT.... I see this is eerily similar to what happened to IBM in the 80's/. Back then the microprocesssor changed the main frame industry. Suddenly all sorts of companies like Sun, Tandem, Digital, to name 3 started making so called mini computers that wittled away at IBM'S dominance. In the space of 10 years most of IBM's business was ceded to the minicomputer. IBM brought out the AS400 series to combat this but the horse had alredy bolted. It's automatic profits based on the increasing MIPs revenue model was supeceded. This is a little bit similar to MS now who dominated the PC market in the late 90's until now. MS was able to command high prices toi license Windows, Office, Exchange etc. But in the space of a few short years the two pronged attack from Apple on one side offering its OS for $29, iDevices and on the other side the advent of Google and it services has forced MS to drop its price of Windows and Office down to more competitive rates. So far MS has kept it ROI and profits up but the recent Quarter is I think a very bad omen for the future and the stock holders are not sure it will continue as "business as usual". In mobile, Unix has become the de facto standard much to the horror of Bill Gates who tried unsuccesfully to totally kill Unix off in the early 2000's. MS's attempt to port Windows into Mobile devices has for all intents and purposes failed. If MS cedes the consumer market to Google/Android/Apple/Samsung it could be relegated to being somewhat like IBM and by default morph into a Back office Corporate services company running services and perhaps offering a few devices for said market. All of this is simply reactive. As Steve Jobs was fond of saying its best to skate to where the puck will be not to where you see it now. I see a time in about 10 years where the current mobile space has matured without MS being much of a part of it. At some point the next major OS tech will emerge and unless MS stops trying to iteratively fix Windows and start fresh I don't think it will be around for too long. It had better watch out and protect its corporate business because all it would take is for some startup or other enterprise with sufficient resources to design a really good OS to compete with Windows for the Enterprise?
post #314 of 315
Joke
Q. How many Google Engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A. None they just suck all the light (life) out of you!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


'Downside, compared to Google...'? The Apple ID is free of charge to create, no device needed. And with Google, I most certainly need to sign up, even giving them my gender. Fortunately, they added a 3rd choice: 'other' which is a nice touch ¡



It even asks for my phone number, whassup wid dat?

post #315 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Yes of course MS is not going to go under any time soon if at all, they will be around for a long time BUT.... I see this is eerily similar to what happened to IBM in the 80's/. Back then the microprocesssor changed the main frame industry. Suddenly all sorts of companies like Sun, Tandem, Digital, to name 3 started making so called mini computers that wittled away at IBM'S dominance. In the space of 10 years most of IBM's business was ceded to the minicomputer. IBM brought out the AS400 series to combat this but the horse had alredy bolted. It's automatic profits based on the increasing MIPs revenue model was supeceded. This is a little bit similar to MS now who dominated the PC market in the late 90's until now. MS was able to command high prices toi license Windows, Office, Exchange etc. But in the space of a few short years the two pronged attack from Apple on one side offering its OS for $29, iDevices and on the other side the advent of Google and it services has forced MS to drop its price of Windows and Office down to more competitive rates. So far MS has kept it ROI and profits up but the recent Quarter is I think a very bad omen for the future and the stock holders are not sure it will continue as "business as usual". In mobile, Unix has become the de facto standard much to the horror of Bill Gates who tried unsuccesfully to totally kill Unix off in the early 2000's. MS's attempt to port Windows into Mobile devices has for all intents and purposes failed. If MS cedes the consumer market to Google/Android/Apple/Samsung it could be relegated to being somewhat like IBM and by default morph into a Back office Corporate services company running services and perhaps offering a few devices for said market. All of this is simply reactive. As Steve Jobs was fond of saying its best to skate to where the puck will be not to where you see it now. I see a time in about 10 years where the current mobile space has matured without MS being much of a part of it. At some point the next major OS tech will emerge and unless MS stops trying to iteratively fix Windows and start fresh I don't think it will be around for too long. It had better watch out and protect its corporate business because all it would take is for some startup or other enterprise with sufficient resources to design a really good OS to compete with Windows for the Enterprise?

Good post. Could use a couple of ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ ↩ though.
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