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Mac growth running out of steam as 'switcher' motivation diminishes - report - Page 2

post #41 of 112
I think Apple needs to do more advertising. A lot of people don't know about the features that were good about Mac, because Apple stopped advertising them once they were standard features and not new features. That the macs are pricer because of features that PCs usually don't have such as:

Unibody construction
Aluminum body
Magsafe adaptor
Ambient light sensor
Backlit keyboard
Laser etched keys that don't fade
Glass trackpad
Optical out

But the article makes some sense. In the earlier days when OS X first launched, when you use a mac, you are like the only person around using it and people around you go WOW.

Those were the days when the switcher campaign advertisements were running and it made a lot of sense to switch. Nowadays, as much as I hate to admit, Windows is running decently fast and stable, so not that much incentive to switch. And Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 is a pain to use at times.
post #42 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Stupid argument. Mac sales are down because all PC sales are down. This is the post-PC era. People buy iPads now instead.

Correct. However, your statement misses a couple of points:

1. Mac sales are down less than PC sales. Presumably, that means that some switching is still occurring (particularly given the longer average life for Mac systems).

2. The reason is not just people switching to iPacs. Rather, it is to be expected in a mature industry. Twenty years ago, no PC was 'fast enough'. Even with the latest PC, there were still delays in doing common things and there was a major incentive to upgrade as soon as new versions came out. Today, even a bargain basement PC is plenty fast for what most people do - so there's much less incentive to upgrade. If your existing PC does everything you need almost instantaneously, why spend the money on an upgrade? I'm typing this on a 2006 MacBook Pro with 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo and limited to 3 GB of RAM. This computer rarely slows me down when I'm doing the work that I do every day. In the past, for comparison, I upgraded my Macs every 3 years or so to get the latest processors.
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post #43 of 112
Since when?
post #44 of 112
Originally Posted by just1ed@gmail.com View Post
Nowadays, as much as I hate to admit, Windows is running decently fast and stable

 

Ha! Have you USED Windows 8? Also, it's Windows. It's the same core as in '95.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio View Post

They really need another campaign, like they had during Vista, to point out the problems with Windows 8 and 8.1. I wonder why Apple marketing has been silent on this.

 

 

I agree. They don't really advertise Macs anymore. Now is a great time to go at it.

post #46 of 112

I just had my first encounter with Windows 8 yesterday. What a frickin' disaster! Mac should be getting Windows switchers in droves.

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post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

You're sure this is the factor? Not that Macs last longer than PeeCee's? Ah, ok, Switchers. Well, I for one like my niche, I like my niche very much.

edit: 'pipped' by walletinspector - you just made my point. Darn, what took you so long?

Exactly. PC users who switched to Mac must be delighted not to have to 'be sold' a new one every year as it 'would cost more' to fix Windows'.
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post #48 of 112
Well, what's a little misleading is that Apple has only announced one new model this year, so we'll just wait until after they refresh the entire line up.

Sure, Apple's not for everyone, but there are a substantial amount of people still running Windows on a Mac computer than there has in the past.

It would be interesting to see what the market share curve is for Mac users that also run Windows.

I think that the computer has reached a point where the average user might not have to upgrade their computer as often if they are just running basic applications since a lot of the standard apps don't even use that many cores of the CPU.
post #49 of 112
I think the system known as Windows 8 will lend a major helping hand in keeping up switch rates for years to come!

Although, MS may improve if a decent successor to Balmer is found!
post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Cumbers View Post

I think the system known as Windows 8 will lend a major helping hand in keeping up switch rates for years to come!

Although, MS may improve if a decent successor to Balmer is found!

The memo already went out ... "Find the guy that made the silk purses out of ...."
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post #51 of 112

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... the Mac lineup may no longer be attracting many new "switcher" customers from Microsoft's Windows platform, Wolf said in his latest "Digital Lifestyle" report, provided to AppleInsider this week.

 

The "switchers" are now switching to iPad.  It's a post-PC world now, baby.

At least in terms of growth.  Speaking of which...

 

 


Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
PC designs, though, have become "satisfactory for the 'jobs to be done'," and the PC market is struggling as a result.

 

And Microsoft has done zero to put the "Wow" back in legacy desktop computing.

Their last real positive achievement was putting the NT kernel into their consumer OS, Windows XP.

And that was way back in 2001.  And all that did was cut back on Blue Screen of Death appearances.

 

Vista: two steps backward.  Windows 7 (aka "Vista Service Pack 1"): one step forward.

Windows 8: zero steps forward.  Windows 8.1 (aka "Windows 8 Service Pack 1"): half a step forward.

Tick: do something terrible to Windows.  Tock: attempt to fix the mess and call it progress.

 

All of which means that businesses and consumers with 5-year old PCs are happy to keep on using them.

And that's bad for Microsoft and Intel and HP / Dell / Lenovo / etc.  

The old clunker PC is still "satisfactory for the 'jobs to be done'."  Why waste money on a new clunker?

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post #52 of 112
Out to lunch report.!
Winows 8 is the biggest catalyst for switching to mac. And that has just started...let alone more and more ipad and iphone users with old windows machines converting to make their devices more synergic . The idea that mac platform is loosing its appeal or steam among switchers is bogus at best !
post #53 of 112
Analyst is full of it. iPads are a major factor. Not this WOW nonsense. Peeps buy computers because they need them not because they're a status symbol.
post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by xZu View Post

no games.... no fun...
No games?

Are u one if the people who also says surface has all of the important apps?
post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well the screw up the iMac launch design...

 

Fixed that for you.

 

-kpluck

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post #56 of 112

In it's current state- I can;t recommend a Mac. Quicktime sucks and Safari too.The cloud is inconsistent. Mavericks is desparately needed to bring something fresh to the table. OSX has been given short rift the last 5 years with iOS the priority. And the new iMacs don't make sense without a retina display.

 
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post #57 of 112
I'll always be a Mac user. I switched three months ago, to a MacBook Pro, and I love it. After my PC desktop dies, I don't use it too much, I may buy an iMac.
post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

In it's current state- I can;t recommend a Mac. Quicktime sucks and Safari too.The cloud is inconsistent. Mavericks is desparately needed to bring something fresh to the table. OSX has been given short rift the last 5 years with iOS the priority. And the new iMacs don't make sense without a retina display.

And on the other side, windows suck. Desperately needed? Hardly.
post #59 of 112
The consumers have voted with their wallets and those with simple needs are finding the iPad can do the basics all in a nice package - if they needed more than what an iPad can do then Macs have shown to be a superior product.

This type of report indicates the eventuality that once the low hanging fruit is collected then the more difficult job is ahead. I'd like to hear some opinions about where to strike next with Macs as this report, at the very least warns of a necessary adjustment in the present or future where for Mac growth to continue, the strategy has to shift to find more buyers that think a Mac makes more sense than a PC.

I know I still have to use Bootcamp for industrial applications - those where a personal sized touch screen is impractical.

Also I can appreciate a future with better iPads paired with unlimited cloud storage hubs and hosted computing for accessing really heavy apps. They seem to be working on the early versions of this now.

In an ergonomical and usage flexibility sense, the mac will still very much be needed by content creators - maybe sitting at a desk on a mouse and keyboard isn't the ergonomic ideal and this needs to be studied more but its still way more efficient and effective than sitting on a couch with an iPad.
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post #60 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNosey View Post

I'll always be a Mac user. I switched three months ago, to a MacBook Pro, and I love it. After my PC desktop dies, I don't use it too much, I may buy an iMac.

I just sold our Retina MacBook Pro.  I use the iMac as the hub for all my storage and my wife's photo editing- everything else is iPad, iPad Mini, iPhones, Apple TV.  I'm waiting on pins and needles for the next iMac refresh....

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #61 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggydobby View Post

Maybe its time to lower prices :-)

I thought that would be their strategy eventually to start growing in marketshare but they raised some prices instead. The price tags give a false impression of how much profit they make on the machines. Their gross margins are below iOS devices and those are at 37%. If the Macs are at 30%, that means that although a Macbook Air is $999, Apple is at best making $300 and then if you order it online, they have to pay shipping out of that. If they decided to make the entry-level $799, that's still fairly high in an industry where the average selling price is $500 but they'd make maybe $80 net profit. That's still higher net margins than the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.

They might not get much higher volume by just lopping off $100-200 so the volume increase doesn't offset the profit loss and they'd just be volunteering to make less profit. Perhaps they need to find new manufacturing solutions that allow them to lower their build costs but I imagine they've gone through it with a fine-tooth comb already.

Laptops are clearly the highest selling machines so that should be the focus for improving Mac switcher numbers. A part of the problem is how much Intel charges for processors. If Apple could save $100-150 on processors, that could translate into a $200 retail drop with the same margins. Their own ARM chips would work but you can see what happened with Windows RT and Chromebook sales are rubbish too. When people pay so much for a laptop, they expect software compatibility.

When iPad numbers are included into the picture, Apple sells more units than any other PC manufacturer so from that perspective, Apple's adoption rates are doing pretty well.
post #62 of 112

AI understand that the iMac is not the top selling product.

 

But there are two important points to remember:

 

1.  Apple has a small product range - you can put one of each Apple Products on the top of one dining room table, with room to spare.  

 

2.  Apple had the funds to maintain strong development for all products on that table top.  They can add more talented staff without hurting the bank balance.  LIke I said before, how long has it been since iWork was released in a new version?  The iMac is a major product for Apple and Mac users and deserves aggressive updating just as the notebooks do.

Ken
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post #63 of 112
Uh huh. Another analyst. It turns out that computer analysts are just carnival fortune tellers. They're just not as accurate nor as entertaining. There's no reason to believe them.
post #64 of 112
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Fixed that for you.

 

Stop being so shortsighted.

 

Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
In it's current state- I can;t recommend a Mac.

 

Didn't know Consumer Reports was still being paid off to lie.


Quicktime sucks and Safari too.The cloud is inconsistent. Mavericks is desparately needed to bring something fresh to the table. OSX has been given short rift the last 5 years with iOS the priority. And the new iMacs don't make sense without a retina display.

 

Totally wrong.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #65 of 112
I remember when computers were considered a luxury or special item. Today they're pretty much everywhere. Most people who need or want to use one, have one, or have easy access to one. But they never became simple to use for most people. They're still geek contraptions that require ridiculous amounts of maintenance and specialized knowledge to keep operational. The geeks in this forum won't even comprehend what I'm saying and will just mock or write me off.

With the introduction of a truly functional and reliable computing appliance (the iPad and iPhone), it makes sense to me that traditional computers, as we've known them, will be relegated back to special-case items (for developers, scientists, artists, musicians, etc, who need far more powerful, flexible, or expandable computerized function).

Everything seems normal to me. I just wish it had happened ten years ago. It's terribly late.
post #66 of 112
Some analysts have such a limited view of the bigger picture. It was inevitable that people would spend less money on computers as it became cheaper to produce a machine that could handle most people's basic needs (e-mail, web surfing, etc.), the only question was who would be able to best capitalize on the transition. For a while, it was looking like the netbook makers would be the biggest beneficiaries, but then Apple pulled the rug out from under them with the iPad (and to some degree, the iPhone).

This gives them a nice portfolio of high quality products for the discriminating consumer across a range of price points: iPad, Mac Mini, MacBook Air, iMac, MacBook Pro, and (sort of ) Mac Pro. Each one is very good for the niche it serves, and not I would argue unreasonably priced for the quality of the overall experience provided.

If iPad is included in the calculations as a computer, as I think it most certainly should be, Apple already has a large share of the overall computer market, so of course there may be less switching then there was before the iPad, but people also think of these devices on a different upgrade cycle, so instead of waiting five years for a new computer, they might get a new iPad sooner. Apple's job here, which will still be challenging, is to keep upgrading the hardware enough that people feel the need or desire to upgrade as soon as possible.
post #67 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

In it's current state- I can;t recommend a Mac. Quicktime sucks and Safari too.

 

As opposed to what?  The shining beacons of software that are Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer?

 

IE is horrendous and the only reason I ever need to use it is for outdated internal corporate web services which depend on IE-specific functionality (happens less and less).  Firefox and Chrome work pretty much the same on both Windows and Mac if you truly hate Safari.

 

Windows Media Player can play all the old Windows-specific media formats (certain .avi files and whatnot), but then Quicktime can play the old Mac-specific media (certain .qt files).  No real winner here aside from being tied to old media files created by people who didn't know better.  There's always VLC for oddball formats.

 

 

Quote:
The cloud is inconsistent.

 

I'll give you that point.  Then again, I haven't compared it with Microsoft's cloud uptime.

 

 

Quote:
Mavericks is desparately needed to bring something fresh to the table.

 

???  As opposed to what Windows 8 brought to the table (a painful user experience on the desktop)?

 

 

Quote:
And the new iMacs don't make sense without a retina display.

 

The 21" version perhaps, but a 27" retina display would add a huge amount to the price.  In addition to being a far more expensive display, it also requires a hefty GPU to push all those pixels.

 
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post #68 of 112
Nonsense.
post #69 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The only thing I care about is that all three versions get EFFING FEATURE PARITY. It's nonsense that they've never been 1:1 on iOS and OS X. Now adding a third "version" into the mix is totally unApple. I don't want to see effing file errors when moving between "iWork" and "iWork".

 

Yeah, I don't think that's going to be happening soon if they've stretched themselves over maintaining 3 different versions.  If they can standardize on the web/iCloud version for all platforms, then maybe.  But there's still a number of features missing, and it's very hard to pull off desktop and mobile in the same package (as we see with the Windows 8 debacle).

 
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post #70 of 112
Apple IS continuing to innovate. Have these people not seen the "new" Mac Pro...that computer is absolutely revolutionary...and if Apple does a good job with marketing and pricing, they will sell loads of them!!

Apple does need to bring the 17" MacBook Pro back. Discontinuing their large-screen model leaves an empty place in the lineup that is filled by pretty much every other laptop maker.

And yes, these days Macs do last a long time. If you have a Core 2 Duo iMac from 2007, you are still set to go...speedy and can run Mountain Lion. No reason to upgrade a machine that can surf the web fast and run all your apps, play music and video fine. These Macs are built to last. It's not like the days when your 68040 was outdated and you needed to buy a PowerPC Mac 6 months later. These can last 8-10 years now.
post #71 of 112

Boy does that chart ever look like it was made on a Windows box using excel! Ugh!

post #72 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Also desktop, which is receiving an update between September 21 and December 21.

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post #73 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhanduke@sbcglobal.net View Post

I believe when the new MacPro is released we will see a surge of purchases by content creators. It'll be like a tank showing up at a pen-knife fight. The small devices -- from the MacBooks to the iPod Touches have increased the incidence of creative projects, but the emergence of the MacPro will increase the vitality of creative projects. No matter how small and powerful computers become, the human mind is still faster and desires more. The MacPro will rush into that unrecognized (except by Apple visionaries) gaping hole.

Nice first post, worth the wait.

I think also it's obvious that we're going to get a display breakthrough that will redefine what our eyes are really for, thanks to the Mac Pro, 4K, and other pixel hijinks that shall remain unnamed.

So a new round of switching and upgrading is just around the corner, and Wolf will make claim chowder history.
post #74 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I just sold our Retina MacBook Pro.  I use the iMac as the hub for all my storage and my wife's photo editing- everything else is iPad, iPad Mini, iPhones, Apple TV.  I'm waiting on pins and needles for the next iMac refresh....

I couldn't agree with you more. I have an orig. intel 20" white iMac (upgraded to BT Apple KB and Apple magic TP). Unfortunately, I'm stuck with SL OSX.

 

But, I'm all about iPhones and iPad Minis to do 95% of my work. ATV for entertainment (Slide show on the ATV is the best way to view photos-worth the $99 just for that!) :) 

 

Having said that, I do like having the iMac (large screen) as my hub. Like you. But I guess I'm old. :)

 

I may have to get an MBA just so I can have Lion/Mavericks and fully utilize iCloud. 

 

Best! :)


Edited by christopher126 - 8/27/13 at 2:05pm
post #75 of 112

tl;dr

 

Tablets and smart phones serve the needs of the casual user -- web surfing, Facebook, YouTube, etc. Why should somebody drop the cash on a clunky notebook or desktop when a tablet can serve their needs?

 

I own a retina MacBook Pro for software development and competitive gaming.

post #76 of 112
Macs last longer than PCs so users need to upgrade less frequently.
post #77 of 112

Apple just want to keep the status quo for macs.  Why spend resources on a dying market.  It's wise to spend on mobile devices instead.

Even with status quo, developers will buy macs because that's the only platform for developing ipad/iphone apps.

post #78 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

 

As opposed to what?  The shining beacons of software that are Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer?

 

IE is horrendous and the only reason I ever need to use it is for outdated internal corporate web services which depend on IE-specific functionality (happens less and less).  Firefox and Chrome work pretty much the same on both Windows and Mac if you truly hate Safari.

 

Windows Media Player can play all the old Windows-specific media formats (certain .avi files and whatnot), but then Quicktime can play the old Mac-specific media (certain .qt files).  No real winner here aside from being tied to old media files created by people who didn't know better.  There's always VLC for oddball formats.

 

 

 

I'll give you that point.  Then again, I haven't compared it with Microsoft's cloud uptime.

 

 

 

???  As opposed to what Windows 8 brought to the table (a painful user experience on the desktop)?

 

 

 

The 21" version perhaps, but a 27" retina display would add a huge amount to the price.  In addition to being a far more expensive display, it also requires a hefty GPU to push all those pixels.

I bought a 21" version- suped to the max and not impressed. I want to sell it as soon as the upgrades are announced. I'm not sure if it's the build or the current OS but it's not a lighting fast as I'd like and the screen is just ok.

I suppose I should have bought the 27 but spacing concerns said no. 

 
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post #79 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

I bought a 21" version- suped to the max and not impressed. I want to sell it as soon as the upgrades are announced. I'm not sure if it's the build or the current OS but it's not a lighting fast as I'd like and the screen is just ok.

I suppose I should have bought the 27 but spacing concerns said no. 

 

Fair enough.  The iMac is still a consumer-level computer, so it'll never have the performance wow factor of the Mac Pro for high-end applications/pro-level work.  If you wanted that, you definitely should have waited for the new Mac Pro.

 

Retina quality displays are getting to the consumer-level technology price point (especially at 21"), but still weren't at the time the iMac was announced.  Plus I'm sure they'll want to do it on both the 21" and the 27" iMac at the same time when they do.  A BTO option for retina on an iMac would be a logistical nightmare.

 

I went from a 5 year old Mac Pro (upgraded with an SSD and 16GB of RAM) to a 27" Core i7 iMac w/ Fusion drive and I'm pretty happy with the performance boost.  Sure the Pro would have been nicer, but I'm happy with my decision given how long it's taking for the refresh.  I would have been upset if it were released a month or two after I got my iMac.

 
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post #80 of 112

SO where the **** are all these lost Mac sales going? I'm pretty damn sure it's not to any other OEM. 

 

Macs are as compelling as they ever have been, especially compared to what else is out there. Adding flashing lights or some other bullshit is not going to make them more compelling- the desktop space is not about to see any major paradigm shifts, so I'm not sure what people want. If Mac sales are down, its because the entire PC industry is shrinking and losing steam, and that means that every other PC OEM is a million times more fucked than Apple ever will be from slowing Mac growth, since Macs (although sell fantastically and have high profits) are still a small fraction of Apple's business. 

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