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Microsoft permanently slashes price on struggling Surface Pro to $799 - Page 2

post #41 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

My 2 cents

You forgot the kickstand! 1wink.gif

post #42 of 114
post #43 of 114
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

I still don't see why anyone would buy a Surface Pro so close to the release of Intel's Haswell Y-series (fanless).  Y-series tablets are expected to have a much thinner chassis and a 7~9 hour battery life.  Essentially what the Surface Pro should have been originally.

 

Would be surprised if Microsoft goes ahead with the (rumored) second generation Surface.  The CPU speed, fan, and chassis dimensions are the least of the Surface Pro's problems. Bigger problems include (and are not limited to):

 

1. Windows jammed into an inappropriate form factor.  Again.

2. Confusion as users are forced to switch between keyboard, touchpad, touchscreen.

3. Incompatible with Surface RT and legacy Windows software (yet more confusion.)

4. Minuscule selection of apps in the Windows Store.  Apps add value to the hardware.

5. Pitiful media ecosystem.  Microsoft could have leveraged Zune if if had succeeded.

 

CPU speed, fan, etc. are trivial issues compared to these.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #44 of 114

Microsucks could sell all of their Surface tablets at these lower prices if they would announce that they removed the UEFI that locks in Windows and would allow other OSs to operate on their hardware. I would buy an RT and do that but it is impossible.

post #45 of 114

MS should scratch the Surface, because when comes to the iPad it barely scratched the surface.

 

Q. Why does the Surface have the kickstand?

A. Because it needs all the support it can get.

post #46 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

You clearly need to go back and read my post again.  Take a minute and try to understand what was implied.

 

If you implied something different, it sure wasn't very clear, because the standard apologist sort of defence is exactly what I got from your remark also.  

 

Plus, your description of the wonders of Haswell makes it seem like the new Surface Pro tablets (actually more like convertible laptops), will be feature and performance competitive with iPads or Android tablets (fanless, 7-9 hour battery life, thin profile, etc), when this is really just fantasy.  It's basically the same shit intel has been pushing since day one (2007) and it hasn't materialised yet.  Haswell is great, but it isn't a miracle.  It isn't going to all of a sudden make an x86 machine perform like an ARM machine in terms of the power envelope and so forth.  

 

You are just falling for the marketing materials.  Wait and see when (or if) Surface Pro materialises and check out the reviews.  The reality will be somewhat different from the articles you've been reading.  It always is. 

post #47 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Would be surprised if Microsoft goes ahead with the (rumored) second generation Surface.  The CPU speed, fan, and chassis dimensions are the least of the Surface Pro's problems. Bigger problems include (and are not limited to):

 

1. Windows jammed into an inappropriate form factor.  Again.

2. Confusion as users are forced to switch between keyboard, touchpad, touchscreen.

3. Incompatible with Surface RT and legacy Windows software (yet more confusion.)

4. Minuscule selection of apps in the Windows Store.  Apps add value to the hardware.

5. Pitiful media ecosystem.  Microsoft could have leveraged Zune if if had succeeded.

 

CPU speed, fan, etc. are trivial issues compared to these.

 

1. Windows works fine with a touch screen, the addition of a Wacom stylus / active digitizer can also allow you do use advanced / complex programs with ease.

 

2. Refer to #1.

 

3. Surface Pro is running full Windows 8 on x86 hardware, it can run all legacy applications. Steam, Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. it will run it.

 

4. Apps? Again it's a fully capable Windows computer, it has more software than OS X or iOS. 

 

5. Media? It's a fully capable PC, use anyone's services you want.

 

The failure of the device was the low battery and large body. For that reason it failed as a tablet or a laptop.

 

Haswell Y-series is a fix for higher end tablets (from Microsoft or any other hardware company).

post #48 of 114
"Struggling." Yeah, that's what we'll call it, "struggling." That way we don't have to use words like disastrous, failed, embarrassing, catastrophic, dreadful, humiliating, ruinous, calamitous, terrible, dire, disgraceful, or shameful.
post #49 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

 

LOL, you're right!!! What was I thinking?

 

It's OK. It took Jean Luc Picard awhile to get over the effects of his Borg Assimilation too…  those of us who can successfully auto-translate knew what you meant. Welcome back to the greener side of the tracks. :)

post #50 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

If you implied something different, it sure wasn't very clear, because the standard apologist sort of defence is exactly what I got from your remark also.  

 

Plus, your description of the wonders of Haswell makes it seem like the new Surface Pro tablets (actually more like convertible laptops), will be feature and performance competitive with iPads or Android tablets (fanless, 7-9 hour battery life, thin profile, etc), when this is really just fantasy.  It's basically the same shit intel has been pushing since day one (2007) and it hasn't materialised yet.  Haswell is great, but it isn't a miracle.  It isn't going to all of a sudden make an x86 machine perform like an ARM machine in terms of the power envelope and so forth.  

 

You are just falling for the marketing materials.  Wait and see when (or if) Surface Pro materialises and check out the reviews.  The reality will be somewhat different from the articles you've been reading.  It always is. 

Another user understood my post just fine.

 

Haswell Y-series is not Bay Trail.  Don't confuse the two like you just have.

 

Clover Trail already has a 10 hour battery life inside a form factor thinner and lighter than an iPad 4.  Bay Trail will be replacing Clover Trail and offering a massive boost in performance.

 

Haswell Y-series will offer a higher level of performance in a fanless chassis, but it will not be as thin and light as an ARM or Bay Trail tablet.

 

There is no marketing to fall for here, the reality is that this hardware exists and will make a reasonable difference in the market. 

 

On a side note I'm not basing my post off of speculation for a new Surface Pro.  The hardware I've discussed will be in devices from all hardware manufacturers. 

post #51 of 114

I actually used a surface once. It was just...wierd. I'm so used to the ease of the iPad now, that this just seemed ... unintuitive at every turn. It was a "I just don't get this" moment. It seems like this was just a botched product from the get-go. MS had to react, and react they did. This might be a "new coke" moment. Honestly, I would have no use for a surface at any price. The woot ad at $100 is funny. I wouldn't even spend that. And fairly, if anyone asked my opinion about spending a $100, I would say "put that toward a device you'll be happy with - an iPad." At $800? Please.

post #52 of 114

Oh, and remember when Melinda Gates famously told everyone that she wouldn't permit her kids to have iPods? "They can have a Zune." Reminds me of when my dad had been working at Ford for decades, but when my mom had to spend her own money on a car, she bought an Oldsmobile. "Honey, I love you, but I need a car I can rely on." Brand loyalty is one of those things I rather don't get.

post #53 of 114

Hate??????? Why???

post #54 of 114
Originally Posted by eightzero View Post
Oh, and remember when Melinda Gates famously told everyone that she wouldn't permit her kids to have iPods? "They can have a Zune."

 

Bill. Unless she said it separately, in which case those kids are ruined as human beings.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #55 of 114
"But but but Haswell" is the current trend in Surface Pro apologetics.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 114
For pieces of random, why do they cost more than iPads still?
post #57 of 114
I'm shocked, shocked I say to learn that the Surface Pro isn't selling!

When the Surface RT sat on store shelves they said it was because it didn't come with "full Windows" and cost too much. I thought it was actually because Microsoft's vaunted Metro/Modern UI is in fact not nearly as good as the fawning tech press claimed, that being "different" is not the same thing as being better. Given that the new UI was part of "real Windows" too I suspected that we would eventually learn that the Surface Pro had been just as big a failure as the RT models. And now it is coming to pass, even the Surface that runs real Windows is a disaster and isn't selling.

Here's the thing, even if the new ruler of Microsoft does what Ballmer should have done originally and strips the Modern UI out of Windows and markets it as a separate OS for touch devices only it won't help, because in all the fuss of RT vs real Windows, Surface RT vs Surface Pro and the Start menu the fact that the Modern UI isn't as good as either iOS or Android got lost. It's different alright, but it's also confusing and hard to figure out which gestures do what and why. It's not intuitive, you have to learn quite a bit to do even basic things with it.
post #58 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Would be surprised if Microsoft goes ahead with the (rumored) second generation Surface.  The CPU speed, fan, and chassis dimensions are the least of the Surface Pro's problems. Bigger problems include (and are not limited to):

 

1. Windows jammed into an inappropriate form factor.  Again.

2. Confusion as users are forced to switch between keyboard, touchpad, touchscreen.

3. Incompatible with Surface RT and legacy Windows software (yet more confusion.)

4. Minuscule selection of apps in the Windows Store.  Apps add value to the hardware.

5. Pitiful media ecosystem.  Microsoft could have leveraged Zune if if had succeeded.

 

CPU speed, fan, etc. are trivial issues compared to these.

 

1. Inappropriate form factor? People complained about Windows 8 precisely because the metro ui was designed specifically for touch. I would argue that battery life and weight issues aside, the surface pro is the ideal device for windows 8. It has an excellent touchscreen for metro apps and the horsepower for desktop software like photoshop. Not to mention that wacom pen works well too.
 

2. What do you mean by "forced" to switch? If you are using a metro app no one will force you to use a keyboard. The touchscreen works in desktop mode too.

post #59 of 114
Maybe those dancing school girls in the Surface ad were trying to attract an iPad?
post #60 of 114
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

LOL, you're right!!! What was I thinking?

 

Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

It's OK. It took Jean Luc Picard awhile to get over the effects of his Borg Assimilation too…  those of us who can successfully auto-translate knew what you meant. Welcome back to the greener side of the tracks. :)

 

¡cough!  Excuse me?    ;)

post #61 of 114
If Microsoft doesn't believe in karma, maybe they should start.
post #62 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverByThere View Post

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to why there is a screenshot of the stock data for GOOG, highlighting the after-hours drop in this article?

Because the article they were siting had two smaller articles, one on Google's and Microsoft Q2 reports, but they were part of the same article.  Q2 reports is why.

 

They just referenced the article where it discusses how much Microsoft has been making, or losing on Surface tablets.

post #63 of 114
NOTICE: While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information supplied herein, fahlman cannot be held responsible for any errors or omissions. Unless otherwise indicated,...
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NOTICE: While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information supplied herein, fahlman cannot be held responsible for any errors or omissions. Unless otherwise indicated,...
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post #64 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

1. Inappropriate form factor? People complained about Windows 8 precisely because the metro ui was designed specifically for touch. I would argue that battery life and weight issues aside, the surface pro is the ideal device for windows 8. It has an excellent touchscreen for metro apps and the horsepower for desktop software like photoshop. Not to mention that wacom pen works well too.
 

2. What do you mean by "forced" to switch? If you are using a metro app no one will force you to use a keyboard. The touchscreen works in desktop mode too.

Great, go buy one and then post comments somewhere that people actually care what a WIndows 8 user thinks.

post #65 of 114

Know why it isn't selling?

 

It didn't turn the segment on its head. It brought nothing interesting or special to the table. MS didn't go all out and do a January 2010. They entered a market that had an ocean of Android tablets at all price points at one end, and the superior user experience and deep ecosystem of the iPad on the other end. 

 

Who cares if it runs some "touch-friendly" frankenstein-like version of office. Consumers don't care to saddle their mobile devices with the same lousy software they are *compelled to use* at work. They want fun, productive and intimate mobile apps through which they can express their digital lifestyles. It's all about comfortable, stylish productivity. If the experience isn't intimate and comfy, it isn't worth having. Yeah, gimme Office, fine. But not the same crap I'm forced to use at the office!

 

The whole point of tablets are to *redefine* computing and transform our notion of the traditional "office suite" into something more personal and designed for tablets. 

 

Microsoft wants to take a 10 year old idea and shoehorn it onto a tablet. Consumers aren't looking for excuses to run Win/Office on tablets. They're looking for a new and fresh take on traditional ideas - ideas that in their current form in Microsoft's "me too" iPad attempt are best left to stagnate with traditional PCs. 

post #66 of 114

Just add it to the pile of failures

 

post #67 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TogetherWeStand View Post

Q. Why does the Surface have the kickstand?

A. Because it needs all the support it can get.

 

To be fair, that makes it the most stable MS product to date...

OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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post #68 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No, No, No, No!!!

They didn't 'make' $853 M. That was the revenue figure. When you say how much a company 'made', you should be talking about profits.

 

The better descriptive term would be "took in," as in, "Microsoft took in almost a million gullible Windoze users by foisting off Surface tablets on them."

 

Unfortunately more Windows users had stopped being suckers and found how easy it is to use iPads while Mictosoft was taking its time to retool. Ballmer totally over-emphasized the power of Windows in their customer's minds. Even I, the ever-Apple fan, thought Microsoft would have more clout with the Surface than this.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #69 of 114
[quote name="Macky the Macky" url="/t/159278/
Mictosoft was taking its time to retool.
[/quote]

You could say they are still retooling, they're choosing a new CEO this year. 1wink.gif
post #70 of 114

Microsoft permanently slashes price on struggling Surface Pro to $799

Let's see, at $799 it doesn't include the shitty touchpad, or the needed memory to run applications. Add those in and you're at $999. For $799 a person could have a real laptop MBA, with 12 hours of life between charges AND have something with high resale value. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #71 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

 

1. Windows works fine with a touch screen, the addition of a Wacom stylus / active digitizer can also allow you do use advanced / complex programs with ease.

 

2. Refer to #1.

 

3. Surface Pro is running full Windows 8 on x86 hardware, it can run all legacy applications. Steam, Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. it will run it.

 

4. Apps? Again it's a fully capable Windows computer, it has more software than OS X or iOS. 

 

5. Media? It's a fully capable PC, use anyone's services you want.

 

The failure of the device was the low battery and large body. For that reason it failed as a tablet or a laptop.

 

Haswell Y-series is a fix for higher end tablets (from Microsoft or any other hardware company).

Wrong! It failed because of its price. What about $499 sweet spot to start with? I bet that many will buy that hybrid laptop.

For now 128GB Surface Pro at $899 + $129 Surface Type Cover still cost more than 128GB Macbook Air at $999.  It appears that MS doesn't know what they are offering to consumers. My prediction is: No Sale. MS need to slash at least another $300 to make some sales or it's doomed.

post #72 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

Wrong! It failed because of its price. What about $499 sweet spot to start with? I bet that many will buy that hybrid laptop.

For now 128GB Surface Pro at $899 + $129 Surface Type Cover still cost more than 128GB Macbook Air at $999.  It appears that MS doesn't know what they are offering to consumers. My prediction is: No Sale. MS need to slash at least another $300 to make some sales or it's doomed.

$499 is Intel Atom Clover Trail price range.

 

The Surface Pro uses the exact same Intel Core i5 3317U as the 2012 MBA.

post #73 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TogetherWeStand View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Mictosoft was taking its time to retool.

You could say they are still retooling, they're choosing a new CEO this year. 1wink.gif

and the new CEO will be a bigger tool than the one being replaced?
post #74 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahlman View Post

http://www.geek.com/microsoft/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-surface-pro-1539262/

 

This doesn't work?


Ubuntu does work on the Surface Pro with a lot of work and not perfectly. The RT is locked up. I've searched for examples of successful Android or Ubuntu installations and can't find any.

post #75 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

and the new CEO will be a bigger tool than the one being replaced?

That's not true. They have some great candidates under consideration:
http://scoopertino.com/that-was-fast-microsoft-announces-ceo-short-list/
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #76 of 114

hard truth is, no body except Windows IT guys and software developers - plus some MS loving geeks - is going to buy the Pro AT ANY PRICE.

 

the world simply does not need any desktop OS running on a tablet, period. major software company and custom iOS/Android apps will be developed that can do everything that might do, and do it simpler, focused on the specific task at hand, and do it cheaper.

 

the notion "it can run all Windows applications" is frivolous. they're all just too complicated for this format.

 

Jobs realized this. Gates/Ballmer did not. end of story. DOA.

post #77 of 114
Hey, I thought they didn't make the $853 million, they took in only the $853 mil. The profit would have been a lot less.
post #78 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

I still don't see why anyone would buy a Surface Pro so close to the release of Intel's Haswell Y-series (fanless).  Y-series tablets are expected to have a much thinner chassis and a 7~9 hour battery life.  Essentially what the Surface Pro should have been originally.

What I don't get is Microsoft's continued insistence that a tablet is simply another PC in a different form factor, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

Why do you think Apple took the trouble to re-design their tablet OS from the ground up. The popularity of the ipad, contrasted with the pitiful sales of windows tablet PCs, should have told you everything. 

 

IMO, it doesn't matter how much the hardware improves, when it still uses the same problematic software inside. 

post #79 of 114
Quote:

Thanks for that link, which lead me to this story of a guy wanting a 128GB Surface Pro, out of stock, gets a call after a week, goes to the Store in the mall but the Store isn't there anymore...

http://www.geek.com/microsoft/i-returned-my-surface-pro-1541420/
post #80 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

you could have just stopped at the bolded part.

I really don't get the surface pro.  It's a tablet that wants to be a laptop, but as a laptop, it has an awful keyboard/trackpad and can't actually be used on your lap.  You can get a actual windows 8 netbook for less than half the price.  And as a tablet, I really don't see the appeal of running apps designed for the desktop without a mouse/keyboard.  Touch UI has different requirements than mouse/keyboard UI.  Attempting to merge the two together can't possibly work as well in either direction as custom designing for each.
If my laptop was a bit older I'd buy one for the complete opposite of your point. Its a tablet thats also a laptop and unlike every laptop I've owned you can actually use it on your lap. The flaw with every laptop is you cant use the mouse when its on your lap. The trackpad is always far to close to your stomach resulting i this backwards bending hand position that just doesnt work. Admittedly newer laptops eliminate this issue with a touchscreen, but the surface also has the benefit of the start menu apps giving a propper tablet experience for when you just want to browse the web and read emails etc.
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