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Microsoft permanently slashes price on struggling Surface Pro to $799 - Page 3

post #81 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

If my laptop was a bit older I'd buy one for the complete opposite of your point. Its a tablet thats also a laptop and unlike every laptop I've owned you can actually use it on your lap. The flaw with every laptop is you cant use the mouse when its on your lap. The trackpad is always far to close to your stomach resulting i this backwards bending hand position that just doesnt work. Admittedly newer laptops eliminate this issue with a touchscreen, but the surface also has the benefit of the start menu apps giving a propper tablet experience for when you just want to browse the web and read emails etc.

That doesn't make any sense. I use my MacBook Pro in my lap all the time. I used to use an HP laptop in my lap all the time. And the touchscreen on a laptop makes it worse.

Please explain to me how using the Surface Pro as a laptop (with its flimsy keyboard that's not connected all the time and which requires a kickstand to hold the screen up) is easier than using a conventional laptop where the screen and keyboard are attached and the screen stays in place without a kickstand.
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post #82 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's not true. They have some great candidates under consideration:
http://scoopertino.com/that-was-fast-microsoft-announces-ceo-short-list/

LOL. That's an awesome site BTW.

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post #83 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

What I don't get is Microsoft's continued insistence that a tablet is simply another PC in a different form factor, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Lack of imagination. Let's face it, Microsoft is stubborn. And in the past, it has usually worked, so their operating strategy has been: put their version out there and wait for the competition to slip up. Worked against IBM, Lotus, Borland, Netscape, Sun, Palm, Sony Computer Entertainment, etc. Ballmer defined his 30-year career at Microsoft on the "wait for the other guy to choke" strategy, and it's the only play he knows. It's only in the last decade or so where their competitors have managed to not make mistakes that let Microsoft win: Apple in the iPod, music sales, and mobile business and Google in the search, advertising, and mobile business.

Ballmer also believes that Microsoft's assets should be leveraged, which is why they'd rather Windows-ize tablets (or tablet-ize Windows) rather than build something that is a pure tablet device, like the Courier concept. If Microsoft's tablet strategy had to start from scratch and build a new platform from the ground up, as they did with Windows Phone after Windows Mobile collapsed, they knew they'd have to claw their way back from 0% marketshare instead of riding the Windows 7 upgrade gravy train to instant installed base, whether installed on touch-capable tablets, convertibles, or standard desktop PCs. All so they could fast track their way to victory in the "tablet wars."

So taken together, it doesn't surprise me that they are still pushing Windows for Pen Computing Tablet PC UMPC Surface Pro. Any other strategy would be taking a real risk maybe even inventing something new, something that Microsoft and their army of "embrace, extend, extinguish"-tuned developers aren't culturally geared for.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #84 of 114

Excellent video - thanks for the view! Unfortunately, YouTube seems to have pulled the video preceding it, so I can't compare, but the quality of the video and the story it tells show us that Apple cares just as much about their message as they do about their product, and it's the caring that makes Apple so different from almost all their peers. I qualify that statement only because I know some companies aside from Apple do care, but you usually only find that kind of genuine caring about customer, product and message in start-ups and small companies, a quality that is remarkable in a company the size of Apple.

 

What made Steve Jobs so great wasn't his technical genius - though he surrounded himself with it - or what most of us think of as business savvy though his instincts proved to be the most savvy of any CEO in America's corporate history. What made him - and the companies he worked with - great, was his level of caring for both the products and the customer, and how that translated through those companies into the products that we care about, be it Toy Story or iPhone. This not something that business schools or Wall Street are equipped to understand.

 

This is the legacy and the culture that Apple must continue to truly succeed. It's not about market share or earnings or the opinions of pundits. Focussing on these metrics takes away from the real story, and may be why many of Apple's critics miss the point.

 

Sure, Apple has to keep making money. There are many paths they could take to ensure that happens, and only time can tell which paths they will follow, it is the concern and care for whatever they create and the customer experience that makes Apple not just the company that they are, but the company that will continue to succeed for the foreseeable future.

 

Any textbook comparison of Apple versus its rivals, like MS, Google, Samsung et al., cannot reveal this difference. It is difficult to see these qualities in these other companies, or even, imagine it.

 

Cheers,

 

thx


Edited by thx1138 - 8/31/13 at 2:46pm
post #85 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

"Struggling." Yeah, that's what we'll call it, "struggling." That way we don't have to use words like disastrous, failed, embarrassing, catastrophic, dreadful, humiliating, ruinous, calamitous, terrible, dire, disgraceful, or shameful.

 

After laying this steaming pile of poo on the market, I'd be surprised if the board would allow Ballmer an okay to lay an updated coil of crap out there. Then when the new CEO hits the deck, it would surprise me if the new guy wanted to start his/her MS legacy by trying to get into a shitting contest with the previous CEO. Maybe the new CEO will elect to move ahead on the vapor hardware; MS Watch. They could take pre-orders and avoid having excess inventory. Then, in several years when they are ready to ship - with some of the pre-announced features missing, it will be a limited hit among the build-it-yourself crowd who will want to root it and make it into something it could have been.

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post #86 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverByThere View Post

 

Surely Cmd+C & Cmd+V ;)?

 

Ctrl would have been correct. That is the reason it would break the keyboard, because he was referring to a PC keyboard.

post #87 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

 

1. Windows works fine with a touch screen, the addition of a Wacom stylus / active digitizer can also allow you do use advanced / complex programs with ease.

 

2. Refer to #1.

 

3. Surface Pro is running full Windows 8 on x86 hardware, it can run all legacy applications. Steam, Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. it will run it.

 

4. Apps? Again it's a fully capable Windows computer, it has more software than OS X or iOS. 

 

5. Media? It's a fully capable PC, use anyone's services you want.

 

The failure of the device was the low battery and large body. For that reason it failed as a tablet or a laptop.

 

Haswell Y-series is a fix for higher end tablets (from Microsoft or any other hardware company).

 

Haswell wont fix any issues for Microsoft, coz the software itself isn't optimized to be an efficent OS for lower power devices. When hardware improves in the industry Apple tablets would get lighter and thinner (They can afford doing that coz they got a streamlined OS). So when Microsoft figures out how to reduce the size and better battery the competiton would have done so 4X times better. You just cant stuff Windows thats created for Desktop into a Tablet. It's the achillis heel of Surface.

post #88 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Another user understood my post just fine.

Haswell Y-series is not Bay Trail.  Don't confuse the two like you just have.

Clover Trail already has a 10 hour battery life inside a form factor thinner and lighter than an iPad 4.  Bay Trail will be replacing Clover Trail and offering a massive boost in performance.

Haswell Y-series will offer a higher level of performance in a fanless chassis, but it will not be as thin and light as an ARM or Bay Trail tablet.

There is no marketing to fall for here, the reality is that this hardware exists and will make a reasonable difference in the market. 

On a side note I'm not basing my post off of speculation for a new Surface Pro.  The hardware I've discussed will be in devices from all hardware manufacturers. 

Interesting stuff, which sort of highlights the advantage that Apple has over much of the competition: they're masters of the platform switch and they're not at all proud.

I would guess that with their own in-house design team, the expertise at ARM; the ability to optimise their software to their processors; the resources they pour into battery technology, screen tech and memory optimisation they are in a position to match any Intel based tablet once it's in the user's hands. The processor chassis is only part of the story.

And if they can't, they'll simply switch to Intel.
post #89 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That doesn't make any sense. I use my MacBook Pro in my lap all the time. I used to use an HP laptop in my lap all the time. And the touchscreen on a laptop makes it worse.

Please explain to me how using the Surface Pro as a laptop (with its flimsy keyboard that's not connected all the time and which requires a kickstand to hold the screen up) is easier than using a conventional laptop where the screen and keyboard are attached and the screen stays in place without a kickstand.
Easy you want to use it on your lap, you take the keyboard off and use the screen.
post #90 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


Interesting stuff, which sort of highlights the advantage that Apple has over much of the competition: they're masters of the platform switch and they're not at all proud.

I would guess that with their own in-house design team, the expertise at ARM; the ability to optimise their software to their processors; the resources they pour into battery technology, screen tech and memory optimisation they are in a position to match any Intel based tablet once it's in the user's hands. The processor chassis is only part of the story.

And if they can't, they'll simply switch to Intel.

Considering iOS is heavily invested in ARM, switching to an x86 Intel SoC would not be 'simple' task.

post #91 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Considering iOS is heavily invested in ARM, switching to an x86 Intel SoC would not be 'simple' task.

Apple is going 64 bit ARM probably next year is my guess.  There are rumors the new iPhone 5C might have a 64 Bit processor, but I don't know if that's true or not, nothing was mentioned at WWDC for 64 bit in iOS, so we'll see what the actual product is.

 

Maybe Apple has figured out a way to run 32 bit OS and apps on a 64 bit processor in the mean time, but be able to upgrade to 64 bit OS/apps later.


I think the transition to 64 bit is when we are going to see a lot of advancements, especially in the iPad apps.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how the transition is made.

 

The other aspect is the controller chip for NAND storage. Since they bought Anobit, I'm sure they use that technology in the SoC design, which they can do things that Intel processors can't do as well.  I think that's why we are seeing faster SSD in the MBA and new MacPro system, and I'm sure all of the new product announcements this year will get faster SSD storage.

post #92 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 There are rumors the new iPhone 5C might have a 64 Bit processor, but I don't know if that's true or not, nothing was mentioned at WWDC for 64 bit in iOS, so we'll see what the actual product is.

 

I would take that with a grain of salt.  ARMv8 (which includes Cortex A53 / A57) still hasn't been used in a consumer product, and last I heard will only make it to market early 2014.  AMD's 64-bit ARM based cores are due in 2014 and NVIDIA's are set for a 2015 release.

post #93 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

 

I would take that with a grain of salt.  ARMv8 (which includes Cortex A53 / A57) still hasn't been used in a consumer product, and last I heard will only make it to market early 2014.  AMD's 64-bit ARM based cores are due in 2014 and NVIDIA's are set for a 2015 release.

Well, in case you haven't noticed, we are heading into late 2013, so 2014 is right around the corner.  From what I read, it is possible that Apple could announce these chips this year.  Don't be surprised if they do.

 

No one outside of specific group of people know the specs of the next processors Apple is releasing.

 

Just because Nvidia and AMD won't release theirs until next year doesn't mean Apple has to wait for them.  Apple introduced chips using more advanced GPUs before the rest, so they have made announcements that were ahead of the competition.  

So, don't look at others to think that Apple has to wait for them.  That's Apple's advantage of not relying on others for ARM chip designs.

post #94 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Well, in case you haven't noticed, we are heading into late 2013, so 2014 is right around the corner.  From what I read, it is possible that Apple could announce these chips this year.  Don't be surprised if they do.

 

No one outside of specific group of people know the specs of the next processors Apple is releasing.

 

Just because Nvidia and AMD won't release theirs until next year doesn't mean Apple has to wait for them.  Apple introduced chips using more advanced GPUs before the rest, so they have made announcements that were ahead of the competition.  

So, don't look at others to think that Apple has to wait for them.  That's Apple's advantage of not relying on others for ARM chip designs.

NVIDIA and AMD are just examples.  ARM's 64-bit Cortex A53 and Cortex A57 have not yet been demonstrated in a consumer grade SoC.

 

In May, LG became ARM's lead partner for their Cortex A50 series.  They will likely be the first company to use a 64-bit Cortex A53 or A57.

post #95 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

NVIDIA and AMD are just examples.  ARM's 64-bit Cortex A53 and Cortex A57 have not yet been demonstrated in a consumer grade SoC.

 

In May, LG became ARM's lead partner for their Cortex A50 series.  They will likely be the first company to use a 64-bit Cortex A53 or A57.

Apple's has been using ARM since the 80's.

 

ARM lead partner.   Does that mean they'll be first out of the gate?  NO. 

 

It only means something if they can get the design they want to mfg with proper yields.

 

All i know is what the rumors mentioned and that Apple has product announcements in 10 days.

 

I'm sure we'll all find out in 10 days what Apple is releasing.  Until then, it's all speculation.

post #96 of 114

Hi. I'm an apple man, have been for over ten years, but I really like the surface. Yes, I'm in the minority here but I prefer the surface much more than my previous iPhone and IPad experiences. I don't know why there is so much hate b\c I think competition is great, but make no mistake I love my surface, I liked my iPad. I could enumerate the many reasons why, but im sure most of us apple fans don't care. :).

 

I think the major strategic flaw with Microsoft was that initial ad campaign and limiting sales to Microsoft stores and online only. Too late now, but let's watch what happens next with reduced pricing.

 

Sent via dictation on my Microsoft surface.

post #97 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron1982 View Post

Hi. I'm an apple man, have been for over ten years, but I really like the surface. Yes, I'm in the minority here but I prefer the surface much more than my previous iPhone and IPad experiences. I don't know why there is so much hate b\c I think competition is great, but make no mistake I love my surface, I liked my iPad. I could enumerate the many reasons why, but im sure most of us apple fans don't care. :).

 

I think the major strategic flaw with Microsoft was that initial ad campaign and limiting sales to Microsoft stores and online only. Too late now, but let's watch what happens next with reduced pricing.

 

Sent via dictation on my Microsoft surface.

It's the not the ad campaign that was the problem.  Which surface did you get?  The RT or Pro?

post #98 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post

A Woot! deal on Surface tablets can't be far off boys and girls.

2rm6o36.jpg

Steve Ballmer doing a late night infomercial on HSN.
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post #99 of 114

they should re-name the surface to "zune"

post #100 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Considering iOS is heavily invested in ARM, switching to an x86 Intel SoC would not be 'simple' task.

 

No, but neither was developing the same OS for multiple hardware architectures, as NeXT did.  Nor was switching Mac users from Classic to OS X and PowerPC to Intel.  Apple has managed a number of very complex hardware transitions rather smoothly.  If they really wanted to switch from ARM to Intel, they could.  But why would they?  There's no incentive.

post #101 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Lonely Platforms

 

Ah, look at all the lonely platforms 
Ah, look at all the lonely platforms 

Larry and Sergey, building a search that would be the new standard for years, 
Nobody feared 
Schmidt came along and bought an OS, I confess, made it just like Apple's 
Talk about bull

All the lonely platforms 
To whom are they all sold? 
All the lonely platforms
Hey, are they even sold? 

Steven A. Ballmer, starting from scratch on their phones with a batch of new code
Developers. 
Not skeuomorphic, trimmed it right down to just primary colors and squares 
What does he care? 

All the lonely platforms 
To whom are they all sold?
All the lonely platforms 
Hey, are they even sold?

Ah, look at all the lonely platforms 
Ah, look at all the lonely platforms 

Research in Motion, dying off slowly by changing its name and its brand
Still rather bland 
Hedging their bets with piggybacking Android app compatibility
… Really? 

All the lonely platforms (ah, look at all the lonely platforms) 
To whom are they all sold…  
All the lonely platforms (ah, look at all the lonely platforms) 
Hey, are they even sold…


LOL/// that`s interesting~!

post #102 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

My 2 cents

 

 

Excellent illustration! This is what I've never understood: almost to a person, everyone who has rationalized their preference for the Surface tablet over something like an iPad (or even some flavor of Android tablet) usually lists the *exact* things that I would just do on a laptop. And when someone says that the Surface has a physical keyboard and the iPad doesn't... uh, I'm pretty sure I've seen iPads docked to keyboards. "But it doesn't have a mouse!" True enough. But then again, at what point wouldn't you just put a lightweight laptop in your bag instead of this thing? I believe you can run most any Windows based program on a Mac Air or whatever your brand of choice is. So again, if I need/want Office on a mobile device, why do I need this thing?

 

So I'm not surprised that the Surface has been a total flop. It's only real advantages over an iPad seemingly put it up against laptops that are better than it is at those functions. It really is like the Zune (phone and music player): even for free (unless I could dump it later on Ebay), I just can't say that I would really want one. If I didn't want an iPad, whether it was a Mac or not, I'd rather have a decent laptop over this thing.

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post #103 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post

 

 

Excellent illustration! This is what I've never understood: almost to a person, everyone who has rationalized their preference for the Surface tablet over something like an iPad (or even some flavor of Android tablet) usually lists the *exact* things that I would just do on a laptop. And when someone says that the Surface has a physical keyboard and the iPad doesn't... uh, I'm pretty sure I've seen iPads docked to keyboards. "But it doesn't have a mouse!" True enough. But then again, at what point wouldn't you just put a lightweight laptop in your bag instead of this thing? I believe you can run most any Windows based program on a Mac Air or whatever your brand of choice is. So again, if I need/want Office on a mobile device, why do I need this thing?

 

So I'm not surprised that the Surface has been a total flop. It's only real advantages over an iPad seemingly put it up against laptops that are better than it is at those functions. It really is like the Zune (phone and music player): even for free (unless I could dump it later on Ebay), I just can't say that I would really want one. If I didn't want an iPad, whether it was a Mac or not, I'd rather have a decent laptop over this thing.

 

I completely agree, and I even go further with comparing the Surface with any other tablet PC attempt before.  They all failed because the tablet loses any advantages over the laptop if all your software keeps depending on a keyboard and a mouse. Making a mandatory keyboard accessory it gives wrong direction to developers who generally doesn't bother much about tweaking their apps for a specific platform and still consider the tablet has a laptop. 

post #104 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

I completely agree, and I even go further with comparing the Surface with any other tablet PC attempt before.  They all failed because the tablet loses any advantages over the laptop if all your software keeps depending on a keyboard and a mouse. Making a mandatory keyboard accessory it gives wrong direction to developers who generally doesn't bother much about tweaking their apps for a specific platform and still consider the tablet has a laptop. 

The Surface (pro) has more of a split personality compared to previous tablet PCs. You'll probably want a keyboard and mouse/trackpad to run traditional desktop apps like photoshop. But no one is forcing you to run desktop software; if metro apps meet all of your needs, you can use the device with your fingers like any other tablet (battery and weight issues aside, but hardware will inevitably improve). Previous tablet PCs only had a desktop mode.

post #105 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

The Surface (pro) has more of a split personality compared to previous tablet PCs. You'll probably want a keyboard and mouse/trackpad to run traditional desktop apps like photoshop. But no one is forcing you to run desktop software; if metro apps meet all of your needs, you can use the device with your fingers like any other tablet (battery and weight issues aside, but hardware will inevitably improve). Previous tablet PCs only had a desktop mode.

 

Agree, no one is forcing us to use the mandatory Surface keyboard but pointing Metro apps as replacement is laughable.  Most Metro apps are half brew and can't even compete with android or iOS apps equivalent, even Microsoft hasn't port their own offices suite on Metro and are forcing the touch-agnostic Desktop UI on Surface RT only to run one apps: Office. 

 

Metro is a mess on many levels, right now Metro is only an empty shell without any contents and since there is no clues for a windows less interfaces on desktop PC, It will be ignored by most Windows Apps developer who mostly still prefer .NET like Microsoft does with their own softwares libraries


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/3/13 at 6:00pm
post #106 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Metro is a mess on many levels, right now Metro is only an empty shell without any contents and since there is no clues for a windows less interfaces on desktop PC, It will be ignored by most Windows Apps developer
who mostly still prefer .NET 
like Microsoft does with their own softwares libraries
Metro is .net. Most of Microsofts actual windows software like office also isnt .net, its C++
post #107 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


Metro is .net. Most of Microsofts actual windows software like office also isnt .net, its C++

 

Metro apps are mostly HTML + Javascript, .NET for Metro is a long run behind from being equal to .NET Framework 4.5.  

 

 

 

.NET for Metro style apps

Windows Phone 7.1

.NET Framework 4.5

Namespace

72

95

447

Type

1,246

1,788

14,936

Member

15,674

20,291

217,166

Table: API surface counts, by .NET Profile


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/3/13 at 6:23pm
post #108 of 114
Metro apps are not mostly HTML + Javascript. The last stats I saw put HTML at around 5 - 10% of the stores apps. The overwhelming majority are still being written in C#.

The .net framework for metro (which is still a 4.5 framework) apps does have less apis than the core framework. But its also doing a lot less. There's no point in having the whole web namespace when its useless for making apps. There's also no point including stuff that's effectively dead but cant be removed from the framework as it would break old code.

If people want to use the parts that aren't included though, in a lit of circumstances they can just include the dll for the missing bit. As long as you don't include something that's going to break the security requirements, the way .net works means you can include stuff in your project rather than it be in the framework. With .net 4.5 a lot more stuff is actually being taken out of the framework so that it can have updates released without the core framework needing an update.
post #109 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Metro apps are not mostly HTML + Javascript. The last stats I saw put HTML at around 5 - 10% of the stores apps. The overwhelming majority are still being written in C#.

The .net framework for metro (which is still a 4.5 framework) apps does have less apis than the core framework. But its also doing a lot less. There's no point in having the whole web namespace when its useless for making apps. There's also no point including stuff that's effectively dead but cant be removed from the framework as it would break old code.

If people want to use the parts that aren't included though, in a lit of circumstances they can just include the dll for the missing bit. As long as you don't include something that's going to break the security requirements, the way .net works means you can include stuff in your project rather than it be in the framework. With .net 4.5 a lot more stuff is actually being taken out of the framework so that it can have updates released without the core framework needing an update.

 

Where have you got your stats? For what I saw on the Surface I played with, most apps bundled on the Surface like Cut the rope and Windows 8 Apps Store are HTML wrapper. 

 

Besides, you can't say you can straightly port .NET 4.5 apps to XAML/C# for WinRT.  Too much is currently missing in the WinRT runtime, starting with all the UI control not yet replicated in WinRT like windows, popup menus, radio control. And no you can't just use any existing windows DLL in apps targeted for WinRT environment.

 

Apple got this right with keeping the same MVC model (Cocoa) for iOS and OSX and porting their Core API to iOS and back to OSX make their IDE much more streamlined than what Microsoft propose with their 3 separated at birth platforms (WP8 RIA, WinRT Metro and Windows WPF).  Just look on how many original iOS apps (Mostly games though) that has been ported back to OSX now populate the Mac Apps Store. I failed to find similar examples of WP8 apps ported to WinRT or Windows. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/5/13 at 8:53am
post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Where have you got your stats? For what I saw on the Surface I played with, most apps bundled on the Surface like Cut the rope and Windows 8 Apps Store are HTML wrapper. 

Besides, you can't say you can straightly port .NET 4.5 apps to XAML/C# for WinRT.  Too much is currently missing in the WinRT runtime, starting with all the UI control not yet replicated in WinRT like windows, popup menus, radio control. And no you can't just use any existing windows DLL in apps targeted for WinRT environment.

Apple got this right with keeping the same MVC model (Cocoa) for iOS and OSX and porting their Core API to iOS and back to OSX make their IDE much more streamlined than what Microsoft propose with their 3 separated at birth platforms (WP8 RIA, WinRT Metro and Windows WPF).  Just look on how many original iOS apps (Mostly games though) that has been ported back to OSX now populate the Mac Apps Store. I failed to find similar examples of WP8 apps ported to WinRT or Windows. 
most recent stats I heard were on the .net rocks podcast which is basically the biggest podcast for .net devs. They were talking to a guy from Microsoft about it so im inclined to believe them. Also makes sense when you think about the fact 95% of devs that are html and javascript devs work with traditional website which doesnt exactly translate to app development.

I didnt say you could straightly port a .net 4.5 wpf or win form app to winrt. For a start those missing ui controls even if you recreated them would get the app rejected from the store. An app would need to be metrofied to meet the new design style. I also said you could only use the missing dlls if the dll didnt break an app store rule. E.g. If it uses some stuff that gives you direct access to memory its going to rejected. You app will run be the store will reject it. You can also include compiled code like something written in c++ but you will need to submit arm and intel versions if you do. E.g. Sql lite works this way.

Also the MVC model used by wpf and winrt are identical there both xaml based. As is windows phone and silverlight. Also im not a mac or ios dev but I would be surprised if it wasnt the exact same situation. For a start printing wasnt availiable in the first couple of versions of ios so i doubt the apis were there. From the little playing ive done with xcodes interface builder im also fairly certain they have different ui controls.
post #111 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Also the MVC model used by wpf and winrt are identical there both xaml based. As is windows phone and silverlight. Also im not a mac or ios dev but I would be surprised if it wasnt the exact same situation. For a start printing wasnt availiable in the first couple of versions of ios so i doubt the apis were there. From the little playing ive done with xcodes interface builder im also fairly certain they have different ui controls.

 

Of course there is different sets of controls in the Interface builder for iOS and OSX and printing wasn't not part of the OSX Core API, but you can use the exact same model and view in Apple IDE to targeted iPhone, iPad and Mac devices, which is not the case for Microsoft ecosystem, you can't target WP8 and Surface device with the same VS project.

 

All this being said, even if Metro is same as .NET, still there is very few productivity apps who have been updated for Metro, which is the basis of Surface marketing strategy against the iPad by promoting their product has a content producing device.  My original premise was about Windows apps being not adapted for tablet form factor and Surface Pro being confront to the exact same issue of previous Tablet PC attempt of being more expensive and less productive than laptops counterpart. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/5/13 at 10:57am
post #112 of 114
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Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

I would take that with a grain of salt.  ARMv8 (which includes Cortex A53 / A57) still hasn't been used in a consumer product, and last I heard will only make it to market early 2014.  AMD's 64-bit ARM based cores are due in 2014 and NVIDIA's are set for a 2015 release.
Anyone else enjoying this?
OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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post #113 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post


Anyone else enjoying this?

 

Well, when is Google going to spit out a 64 Bit OS?  Whenever they do the OEM Android mfg have to take about 6 to 7 months before they start updating their 64 bit processors.  By that time, Apple will be on their SECOND gen 64 bit and then the current 5s will be their second teir product and a year later, Apple will be 100% 64 bit, which Scamscum still spits out the cheap, outdated 32 bit with Gingerbread for $100 losing money on some garbage that should have been discontinued the second they stopped updating the OS.

 

I still can't figure out why a company would still sell a product that isn't running the latest OS.  Apple would NEVER do that.  EVER. A product has to be discontinued first before that time frame.

 

The SAMDROID platform is just a mess.

 

I'm sure most corporations that buy smartphones won't even touch Android for just that one reason.  They certainly can't get bug fixes and security updates very quickly, IF at all.

 

Apple just needs to spit out a decent large screen which i hope is 6 months away.  Apple?  if are reading this.  Let's get cracking.  TImes a wasting and the demand is there. 

post #114 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post

If they dropped them to $79, they might sell some.  At $799?  Forget it.
$7.99 and I'll think about it.
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