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$7.2B smartphone business sale seen as a win for Nokia, major gamble for Microsoft - Page 2

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRon man View Post

Don't forget Nokia has been a huge worldwide brand, and previous dominator of the low price market.

The name is instantly known to most people, the only problem is that it is known as a big name from the past.

It's hard to think of buying a business in decline as a smart move.

Then you have the problem of such a well known brand taking over Nokia... If MS took over the Apple brand would people assume nothing would change?

I think most people will think MS is going kill any desirability left in Nokia.

But... Time will tell, huge restructuring etc and a fresh face for CEO?

 



Problem is, Nokia had a very strong brand image, at least in europa, for quality, durability and ease of use even if a bit ugly. There is still customers here that dont want to hear about anything but them.

 

That is a brand image that you cannot associate with Windows imho, and this move is the death announcement for Nokia branded phones. And a brand image, especially one as positive as that, is something you work decades to build but can lose in one bad move.

post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

"Designed by Microsoft in Finland" just doesn't have the same ring to it as Apple's slogan.

LOL.

Jo!


Edit: Don't underestimate the Finnish -- Mike Markkula was the businessman behind the success of the 2 Steves:
Quote:
He made millions on stock options he acquired as a marketing manager for Fairchild Semiconductor and Intel, and retired at 32.

He was lured out of retirement by Steve Jobs, who was referred to him by Regis McKenna and venture capitalist Don Valentine. Valentine—who after meeting the young, unkempt Jobs asked McKenna, "Why did you send me this renegade from the human race?" — was not interested in funding Apple, but mentioned Jobs' new company to Markkula. Jobs visited him and convinced Markkula of the market for the Apple II and personal computers in general. In 1977, Markkula brought his business expertise along with US$250,000 ($80,000 as an equity investment in the company and $170,000 as a loan) and became a one-third owner of Apple and employee number 3.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Markkula
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/3/13 at 8:49am
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Consider this timeline:

20 months • January 2008 to September 2010, Elop worked for Microsoft as the head of the Business [Office] Division,

--- months • September 2010, it was announced that Elop would take Nokia's CEO position

  6 months • February 2011 -- leak of Elop "burning platform" memo to press
                    February 2011 -- Elop officially announced the new strategy for Nokia, which included the discontinuation
                    of both of their in-house mobile operating systems, shifting its smartphone strategy to Microsoft's Windows Phone.


It appears to me, that if Elop gets control of MS (with Gates backing) -- he will attempt to take drastic action in less than a year.

I have never met Bill Gates (and don't know if he is shrewd enough) -- but this could have been the plan all along:

1) Cut Nokia Phone down to size (lean and mean)

2) Groom Elop for potential MS CEO

3) Acquire Nokia/Elop


Nokia has certainly been cut down.

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post #44 of 59

well no one has mentioned yet that what MS got along with the factories is a top notch engineering team. Nokia has always made very good hardware. since MS clearly is determined to become a major consumer product OEM now, that is a valuable new asset for them. that means we will see more Surface tablets and other gizmos too. well made with good cameras no doubt.

 

good luck with that, MS.

 

(also, the $7.5 B price is about the same as Google paid for Motorola for its OEM capabilities after deducting the divisions it then sold off and the limited real value of its IP. so far Google has done very little with that - what is going on there?)

 

MS must believe that combined with its huge marketing budget it can really push the Nokia brand with Windows Phone 8 successfully into the US market at last. that will be the real test for this deal - it has to make a real dent within 2 years.

 

good luck with that too, MS.

 

the problem with WP 8 is the Metro UI appeals only to a subgroup of consumers. most just find it "too different" from the standard now-familiar iOS/Android format to embrace. and the supporting MS ecosystem is still too patchy and confusing for most to bother to figure out.

 

if MS gets its ecosystem together (especially the business services side), opens more stores, etc. it might be able to push its US WP market share up 5% more - largely by grabbing the last of the Blackberry users as BB dies a sad death. i guess that's at least a "foothold."

 

but what other OEM's are now going to even try to sell WP products, competing directly with the MS/Nokia brand? they'd have to be crazy. so bye bye.

 

so one of them is going to grab BB now, just to have its own OS. will they then screw up QNX as bad as HP screwed up WebOS?

 

you know, looking at all this, only Apple and Samsung have done well business-wise while everyone else is really f*cked up.

post #45 of 59
Quote:
This is supposed to change what? Nokia already makes Windows phones, so Nokia will lose Symbian completely for the Asha line? Fire Ballmer now b**ches.
MS currently get less than $10 per phone sold. Now they will get $50. 90% of windows phones are also Nokia and they've been saying for a long time that all there effort is going into Nokia. Makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to buy them.

There's also just not enough money in a phone to make money as they guy that makes the os. Smartphones are going in the direction of selling for $100 - $150 and for 2 companies to make a decent amount on that level is hard.
post #46 of 59
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft's proposed $7.2 billion purchase of Nokia's handset division has been called as a victory for Nokia, completing its transformation into a network infrastructure business. 

 

Nokia employees: "Yay!  Nokia isn't dead yet!  But man, working for Microsoft is the pits."

 

 

 


Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But now the difficult task of gaining traction in the highly competitive smartphone hardware market will be Microsoft's job.
 

Microsoft management: "OK.  We ran Nokia into the ground successfully.  We got a bargain-basement price like we had hoped all along.  But now what the heck do we do with them?  We have no new ideas.  Oh well, if nothing else, we can write it off as a tax deduction in a few years."

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post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

In Ballmer's mind this purchase appears the same as when Apple bought Next.

But the truth is perhaps closer to Google's purchase of Motorola Mobility.....lol.gif

 

Mr. Market is clearly unimpressed: MSFT has lost about $17B in value so far today, more than twice what they're paying for NOK!

post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft's proposal to buy Nokia's smartphone division will "remove the albatross" that is Nokia's Device & Services business, analyst Maynard Um of Wells Fargo Securities said in a note to investors on Tuesday. He believes the deal will strengthen Nokia's balance sheet while retaining its intellectual property with a 10-year non-exclusive licensing agreement.

Intellectual property has the shelf life of a banana.
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Consider this timeline:

20 months • January 2008 to September 2010, Elop worked for Microsoft as the head of the Business [Office] Division,

--- months • September 2010, it was announced that Elop would take Nokia's CEO position

  6 months • February 2011 -- leak of Elop "burning platform" memo to press
                    February 2011 -- Elop officially announced the new strategy for Nokia, which included the discontinuation
                    of both of their in-house mobile operating systems, shifting its smartphone strategy to Microsoft's Windows Phone.


It appears to me, that if Elop gets control of MS (with Gates backing) -- he will attempt to take drastic action in less than a year.

I have never met Bill Gates (and don't know if he is shrewd enough) -- but this could have been the plan all along:

1) Cut Nokia Phone down to size (lean and mean)

2) Groom Elop for potential MS CEO

3) Acquire Nokia/Elop

This appears to be the new strategy on acquiring a company. Send over a high ranking exec have them clean up the place and then work a deal to buy them using your inside man, guess what you end up not paying as much as Google did with Motorola, they did not have an inside man in the deal.

post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Intellectual property has the shelf life of a banana.

Says someone who has obviously never tried to build a smartphone. There's a reason why the iPhone costs so much more than the iPod touch and it's not just about the camera.
post #51 of 59

Does anyone know if BlackBerry signed a DNR?  If so, someone should really kick the plug out of the wall now.

 

 

 

 

post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post

Does anyone know if BlackBerry signed a DNR?  If so, someone should really kick the plug out of the wall now.

Looks more like it needs to be plugged in again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Intellectual property has the shelf life of a banana.

Says someone who has obviously never tried to build a smartphone.

This, just like "why don't you build your own $500B tech company yourself?" always baffles me as it doesn't really mean anything.
Quote:
There's a reason why the iPhone costs so much more than the iPod touch and it's not just about the camera.

I was referring to the flip-flop stance the USPTO always seems to be taking. They grant IP, it gets used, stolen or whatever by the competition and bam,, this whole IP thing seems to be pretty worthless.

Yes, I know Apple has to pay for 3G patents and what not, that much is obvious.
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post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

 



Problem is, Nokia had a very strong brand image, at least in europa, ...

 

"Europa" is actually a greek lady, not a place.  

 

Making your statement kind of rude in two completely different ways. 

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

But the truth is perhaps closer to Google's purchase of Motorola Mobility.....lol.gif

Mr. Market is clearly unimpressed: MSFT has lost about $17B in value so far today, more than twice what they're paying for NOK!

But that's only half of what their market value gained when Ballmer announced that he was leaving, so they're still ahead of the game.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

Problem is, Nokia had a very strong brand image, at least in europa, ...

"Europa" is actually a greek lady, not a place.  

Making your statement kind of rude in two completely different ways. 

Unless he's Dutch, as Europe is spelled Europa over there. Unlikely for him to be Dutch, considering his username.
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post #56 of 59
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

"Europa" is actually a greek lady, not a place.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

All this comes down to is an expensive CEO purchase.

It's evident in both the stocks this morning: MSFT down 5%, NOK up 45%.


It's apparent which company benefited by this buyout. Elop has left Nokia so he can slide into Microsoft and fill Ballmer's position and further pump money into Nokia. Then bundle the camera phone business with the game console business, kill the tablet business and then sell the devices business back to Nokia. That will leave MSFT to focus on enterprise where it's strongest, and Nokia to focus on camera phones with the rest of the old MSFT devices to shore up the profits while the Nokia camera phone gain some traction in the smart camera phone market.

The resulting musical chairs should tie up Microsoft for the next year... but given that this is Microsoft we're talking about, let's be honest and give them five years to really get back up to slow speed again.
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post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

MS currently get less than $10 per phone sold. Now they will get $50. 90% of windows phones are also Nokia and they've been saying for a long time that all there effort is going into Nokia. Makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to buy them.

There's also just not enough money in a phone to make money as they guy that makes the os. Smartphones are going in the direction of selling for $100 - $150 and for 2 companies to make a decent amount on that level is hard.

By the time MSFT is finally poised to take over the smart phone market it will be saturated and commoditized. Apple iPhone will be selling nicely in high end jewelry stores along with the iWatch, and android smart phone will be swinging from rack hooks in 7-11 quick shops.

Apple will be off on the "next big thing" and MFST will be announcing they will be going after that market next, which they may do by the time the Chinese have a permanent colony on Mars where they make "the next big thing" for Apple Intergalatic™.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post




Problem is, Nokia had a very strong brand image, at least in europa, for quality, durability and ease of use even if a bit ugly. There is still customers here that dont want to hear about anything but them.

That is a brand image that you cannot associate with Windows imho, and this move is the death announcement for Nokia branded phones. And a brand image, especially one as positive as that, is something you work decades to build but can lose in one bad move.

If dropping the Nokia brand name is a very bad move, then MSFT will do it. As Jobs once said, "they lack taste."
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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