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As Google's Android tops 1B activations, next version gets named 'KitKat' - Page 2

post #41 of 96
Appropriate! A cheap wheat biscuit with some chocolate sprayed on top. Not what you'd call fine chocolate. Perfect for Android, though.

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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post #42 of 96
1B activations! Wow that's impressive. I prefer Android than my Iphone. Day and night in speed screen estate. My Iphone 5 can't compete with my nexus 4 quad core 2 gigs of ram. Plus I find it is really smart to use KitKat as a name. My next tablet will be also an android LG G tablet. I also prefer the look of Jelly bean over iOS 7. I would love if Apple could make a 4.7 Iphone quad or octa core. Maybe iPhone 6 let's hope.
post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The newest Android OS Kit Kat will only serve to further fragment the mess that is called Android, and the majority of devices sold will probably not even include the newest OS, and many older devices and even many current devices will probably never ever get it. Fandroids are suckers.

 


I didn't understand how Google was addressing "fragmentation" until the past few days. It now looks as tho the specific version of Android isn't nearly as important as it once was. They've come up with really a brilliant way of making sure the latest OS features & improvements are available to 98% of current users while still allowing the OEM's to customize the shell or 3rd parties to "fork" the OS for specific uses.

How is that possible? Google Play Services. Read up on it if you're curious.

It's very simple, actually.

 

Basically android development stopped with jelly bean 4.1. Other versions bring nothing.

I do not blame them. Maybe they are focussing on bug fixing and bringing everyone to 4.x?

 

That's a problem they choosed to have by allowing OEMs to use android.

post #44 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I didn't understand how Google was addressing "fragmentation" until the past few days. It now looks as tho the specific version of Android isn't nearly as important as it once was. They've come up with really a brilliant way of making sure the latest OS features & improvements are available to 98% of current users while still allowing the OEM's to customize the shell or 3rd parties to "fork" the OS for specific uses.

How is that possible? Google Play Services. Read up on it if you're curious.
There are at least two ways to look at fragmentation, thru version number and thru features/functionality. It's already been hashed out here more than once and most of the AI readers seem to prefer the version number metric. Google Play Services matters when using the features/functionality metric.
Edited by DroidFTW - 9/3/13 at 2:25pm
post #45 of 96
Shiny and smooth on the outside but on the inside it's just a bunch of fractured layers. Gimme a break...
post #46 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I didn't understand how Google was addressing "fragmentation" until the past few days. It now looks as tho the specific version of Android isn't nearly as important as it once was. They've come up with really a brilliant way of making sure the latest OS features & improvements are available to 98% of current users while still allowing the OEM's to customize the shell or 3rd parties to "fork" the OS for specific uses.

How is that possible? Google Play Services. Read up on it if you're curious.

I have not read up on this yet, but they still have not solved one of the fundamental problems with getting the OS out to the end users on the various carrier networks which is, the carriers still want the ability to test and approve the various versions prior to release. Remember service providers like VZ still have Android customization that want the cell phone companies to make before they sell it to the public. Not true for Apple, no cell phone company has any say so over apple's release of a new OS.

 

I had the ability to beta test the 4.1 release on my Motorola work phone and had 6 months prior to it being generally released, however, AT&T would not allow me to update to a final release for 3 months after it was release since they has not yet approved it. This is part of the issue out there since the service provider do not want version out there without their permission since they still have to support Android phone again they do not have that issue with Apple. Google or Motorola do not want you calling them if you have an issue with the phone you have to got to the phone store where you bought it.

post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Appropriate! A cheap wheat biscuit with some chocolate sprayed on top. Not what you'd call fine chocolate. Perfect for Android, though.

 

Just wait until we get to "L"...

 

Android Lavatory... for those who want a phone fit for the crapper.

(oh, spare me the lecture Android lovers)

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

I still would like to know what constitutes an "activation".  It seems to me that a device can be reactivated multiple times. I have a lot of friends that have had to take their crappy Android phone back to the store and get a replacement.  Each one of those is an activation, but all that means is that a device was activated onto a network.  Those devices could (and probably are) sitting in a freaking landfill or drawer somewhere and not being used.  It's a useless metric.  It sounds great, but has no bearing on the health of the ecosystem.  What types of Android devices. ANY.  That's another problem. That means that any craptastic piece of crap that anyone could possible sell with a bit of Android code on it counts as an activation then?

 

I'm just saying it's a bullshit number.

 

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2827545/andy-rubin-850k-android-activations-a-day-300m-total-devices-12m

 

Activations are counted using the ID unique to each device.  Andy Rubin says that devices are not counted twice when resold or reset.

post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post


As a very satisfied repeat customer of Android products, I account for three of those activations as I've had three different Android devices (never had to get a replacement for any of them).  That may help you to support your argument for it being a "bullshit number" as your current reasoning isn't very good.

These numbers didn't make sense considering more than half the population can't afford to eat let alone pay for a smartphone. And then factor in the number of children, these figures would mean that pretty much everybody has a smartphone. Then I realized that the typical android user gets a new phone every year, so the number of users is a far different number than activations - about 75% less.
post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

The newest Android OS Kit Kat will only serve to further fragment the mess that is called Android, and the majority of devices sold will probably not even include the newest OS, and many older devices and even many current devices will probably never ever get it. Fandroids are suckers.

 

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5457

 

There's more than one kind of fragmentation.

post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
 

 

No, it's more like Kit-Kat approached them and said "How much money would it take for you to make the next Android version ..." etc. 

 

Google director of Android global partnerships first called Nestle about the name in late November of 2012. 

 

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/3/4691040/android-kitkat-the-story-behind-a-delicious-partnership

post #52 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2827545/andy-rubin-850k-android-activations-a-day-300m-total-devices-12m

 

Activations are counted using the ID unique to each device.  Andy Rubin says that devices are not counted twice when resold or reset.

 

 

The problem is that Android devices have an incredibly short lifespan, especially when compared to Apple devices. Many Android devices from 2013 are probably already obsolete. I'm constantly reading about certain Android phones which will not be getting OS updates that they were supposed to get or promised to get.

 

How many of those supposed one billion Android activations are actually still in use? What is the true figure of actual Android phones out there still in use? I'd wager that that figure is significantly lower than 1 billion, assuming that the 1 billion figure is true and accurate to begin with.

 

What's the point in bragging about activations? I'd like to know the number of dead, the Android phones that are already in a land fill. When you look up the population of a country, the answer doesn't include the number of dead people, because the dead don't count.

 

Evidence suggests that the death rate in Androidville is far greater than for Apple iOS devices. Android devices are dying like flies, and I don't see many people wanting to own or use an Android device that's even slightly old. Meanwhile in Apple land, plenty of people are still using older iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches, with many of them having been updated to the latest OS with the devices running as smoothly as ever.

 

I'm not impressed by one billion activations, especially when a great deal of those activations are comprised of people getting some junky Android phone for free or very little money, usually to go along with some super cheap cell plan. Quantity is not a substitute for quality. And obsolete, dead devices don't impress me either.

post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Pfft... right.  When an Android owner throws their crappy phone through a window and buy's an iPhone, how does Google count that??  waiting... hmmm...

I was would exactly the same way Apple does when an iPhone user moves to a different platform.
post #54 of 96
According to the BBC article that broke the story no money was exchanged. Which makes sense, I'm sure Nestle is good with all the free advertising and the Googs gets blog posts and free press about how silly they are. Google is an advertising company that does tech in order to advertise to you. In the end, It's all in good fun. I don't see how this is such a horrible thing.
post #55 of 96

I can't think of a candy bar that looks more fragmented. Good choice Android!

post #56 of 96

Here you go Google.  Found the name for your next Android release:

 

post #57 of 96

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post #58 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I didn't understand how Google was addressing "fragmentation" until the past few days. It now looks as tho the specific version of Android isn't nearly as important as it once was. They've come up with really a brilliant way of making sure the latest OS features & improvements are available to 98% of current users while still allowing the OEM's to customize the shell or 3rd parties to "fork" the OS for specific uses.

How is that possible? Google Play Services. Read up on it if you're curious.

 

The most important aspect/definition of fragmentation to me (and I would guess many mobile devs) is API penetration rate and ARPU.

 

http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/11/02/android-version-developers.aspx

 

Well, okay...and security feature in the base OS level since I tried to search on this topic (which android version to target) for the last month and all I could find was the statistic that 79% of mobile malware targets Android.

 

Hence the out of date 2012 metric since I didn't find any late 2013 ARPU numbers.  However, if the ARPU numbers still hold then Gingerbread (API 10) is the sweet spot with a 1.20 ARPU and 33% market share according to the dashboard.  If I go to API 15 (ICS) then I lose a third of my potential market.  If I go to API 17 I lose 93.5% of my potential market.

 

Google Play Services does not address API or OS level security flaws.  Just the allows updates to the core apps that support Googles revenue stream (YouTube, Gmail, etc) and the Google APIs that support those apps.  So vulnerabilities in those apps get patched but not the API/OS vulnerabilities that malware apps will use on 2.x devices.

 

And lord help you if Google Play Services itself ever gets hacked.  It has essentially any privileges it deems necessary to do whatever it wants to your phone without asking.  Also lord help you if it ends up being buggy because it always runs in the background.  Watch that battery life crater if it doesn't want to sleep correctly on your phone.

 

It does help me as a dev if the new API I want to use is part of GPS but not for the code application framework APIs, hardware APIs or security APIs.  But an API 10 device + GPS is still mostly a API 10 device if I'm not using google services (maps, account auth, google+ stuff, etc) heavily in my app.  Button Bar, notification panel, lock screen, etc is all still API 10.  

 

That's not to say this isn't a huge improvement...account authorization and in-app billing is very important as are the location and games APIs...but it doesn't really change the fragmentation story until all the 2.x devices are history.  I still wont target above API 10 till that happens.

 

With respect to the iOS fragmentation, it matters more to users than developers whether they get Siri or not.  I still get to target the latest API version in iOS and cover the majority of the iPhone market.  The remaining few percentage points probably have lousy ARPU numbers anyway.

 

For folks keeping track, GPS is closed source and essentially Google just forked Android into a closed source architecture.  No more free ride for Amazon.  Or Samsung for that matter if they ever play hardball with Google.  Sorry, you're not a Google branded/approved device.  GPS wont run on your android and without it, half the APIs are gone...

post #59 of 96
Great. One of my favorite sweets ruined by Google.
post #60 of 96

This thread is truly the zenith of pointlessness. Don't you lot have anything better to do all day than whine about Google on the internet?

 

I thought this was supposed to be an Apple news site rather than the home of the Google hate mob?

post #61 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

This is....embarrassing.

Actually, in Germany we have a word called "fremdschämen" which basically means you're embarrassed on behalf of some else's behavior. Like in this case.

It's been my experience that no matter what the topic is, there is often a single German word to describe it. 1smoking.gif
post #62 of 96
I have to say that the video does remind me of Jony Ive's way of talking and presenting a product. Which I believe is kind of embarrassing for them.
post #63 of 96
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

No, it's more like Kit-Kat approached them and said "How much money would it take for you to make the next Android version ..." etc. 

 

Rather, whoever Kit Kat's direct competitor is paid them huge sums of money to tank Kit Kat's name.

 

Originally Posted by Anome View Post
So Google are now in bed with Nestle? Are they still claiming not to be evil?

 

What's evil about Nestle? 

 

Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post
Day and night in speed screen estate. My Iphone 5 can't compete with my nexus 4 quad core 2 gigs of ram. Plus I find it is really smart to use KitKat as a name. My next tablet will be also an android LG G tablet. I also prefer the look of Jelly bean over iOS 7. I would love if Apple could make a 4.7 Iphone quad or octa core. Maybe iPhone 6 let's hope.

 

Just go away.

 

Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post
This thread is truly the zenith of pointlessness. Don't you lot have anything better to do all day than whine about Google on the internet? I thought this was supposed to be an Apple news site rather than the home of the Google hate mob?

 

Come off it. You know what they've done. You want namby-pamby Google licking, go to an Android site.


Addendum: Also, great, Huddler. Just when I'd re-gotten used to your old editor after having to get used to the BBCode editor… 

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #64 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


It's been my experience that no matter what the topic is, there is often a single German word to describe it. 1smoking.gif

 

That's because you can slam 10 words together in German to make a single word.

 

Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän anyone?  How about Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz?

post #65 of 96

I don't know why people are questioning 1 billion activations - it's totally believable. Apple has 600 million iOS devices, and that's from only a single company. And Apple has never stooped to the low end like so many Android vendors have.

 

The real issue is how come there are so many Android devices yet the App Store generates more revenue than Google Play does, iTunes generates far more (6X) revenue for digital content and iOS devices comprise more of mobile internet traffic. How embarrassing for Google to have so many users yet they just can't seem to monetize them.

 

 

As to Google Play Services - everyone is missing the point. Yes Google is going to deal with fragmentation by moving more of Android into Services. At the same time they are locking down Android and making it like iOS (a closed-source, walled garden). Google Play Services ARE NOT open source and are 100% locked down by Google. So the more Google moves to Services to reduce fragmentation the more closed Android gets.

 

This also makes it useless for companies like Amazon to fork. If Android is nothing but a bare-bones OS where all the functionality is in Services, then what's the point of someone like Amazon using it for anything?

 

This is something all the haters/Android shills are not talking about, either because they aren't yet aware that's what's happening or they don't want to talk about Google going closed-source when they've been bragging about Android being open-source for years now.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #66 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

That's because you can slam 10 words together in German to make a single word.

Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän anyone?  How about Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz?

That's one of the best things about the German language.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #67 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post
 

This thread is truly the zenith of pointlessness. Don't you lot have anything better to do all day than whine about Google on the internet?

 

I thought this was supposed to be an Apple news site rather than the home of the Google hate mob?

 

Your comment is the pinnacle of pointlessness, served up with an added dash of extreme ignorance.

 

If you had read the full article and seen the video, then you would have been aware that this topic is directly related to Apple, since they chose to parody/attack Apple in the video.

 

If somebody's going to dish it out, then they had damn well better be prepared to take it too. 

post #68 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post

1B activations! Wow that's impressive. I prefer Android than my Iphone. Day and night in speed screen estate. My Iphone 5 can't compete with my nexus 4 quad core 2 gigs of ram. Plus I find it is really smart to use KitKat as a name. My next tablet will be also an android LG G tablet. I also prefer the look of Jelly bean over iOS 7. I would love if Apple could make a 4.7 Iphone quad or octa core. Maybe iPhone 6 let's hope.
This can't be a post from a real person. It's not that they are commenting about how great Android is in an Apple forum but the way they hit every marketing point that is supposed to make Apple customers think ,"Hmmm, I wonder if there's anything to this big screen and quad core processor that I'm missing."

If you're not getting paid for is drivel ad, you're dumber than your ad copy.
post #69 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

 

The problem is that Android devices have an incredibly short lifespan, especially when compared to Apple devices. Many Android devices from 2013 are probably already obsolete. I'm constantly reading about certain Android phones which will not be getting OS updates that they were supposed to get or promised to get.

 

How many of those supposed one billion Android activations are actually still in use? What is the true figure of actual Android phones out there still in use? I'd wager that that figure is significantly lower than 1 billion, assuming that the 1 billion figure is true and accurate to begin with.

 

What's the point in bragging about activations? I'd like to know the number of dead, the Android phones that are already in a land fill. When you look up the population of a country, the answer doesn't include the number of dead people, because the dead don't count.

 

Evidence suggests that the death rate in Androidville is far greater than for Apple iOS devices. Android devices are dying like flies, and I don't see many people wanting to own or use an Android device that's even slightly old. Meanwhile in Apple land, plenty of people are still using older iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches, with many of them having been updated to the latest OS with the devices running as smoothly as ever.

 

I'm not impressed by one billion activations, especially when a great deal of those activations are comprised of people getting some junky Android phone for free or very little money, usually to go along with some super cheap cell plan. Quantity is not a substitute for quality. And obsolete, dead devices don't impress me either.

 

You're gonna be shocked by this, but I agree with most of what you wrote. There is no reason at all to be impressed by a billion activations. At this point it's obvious that Android is here to stay and that it's on a whole lot of devices. As for obsolescence of Android devices, I would say that is true except for the Nexus line and the flagships for each manufacturer. If someone, God forbid, decides to buy a Galaxy Fame, then they are using a device that would have been considered obsolete in 2011. I'm not worried about that person. I don't buy junk, but it's none of my business if someone else does.
post #70 of 96
That's one of the most asinine commercials I have seen in years. And the guy looks like some goddamn corporate humanoid.
FAIL!!
post #71 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What's evil about Nestle?

Are you seriously asking this?

Just as google strives for full domination w.r.t. All your data, nestle pretty much wants the same relative to your nutrition. Their products have little in common with food, all lab engineered stuff without any nutritious value other than sugar and fat. Its basically junk. They try to imprint preferences for their artificial "food" into young people so they stick with them later. From a manufacturer standpoint they have enormous leverage and you are welcomed to google where and under what conditions they get their ingredients from.

The more I write the better I feel these two make a match...


Edit: a Good starting point for reading is the documentary "bottled life" that shows how through something as simple yet mandatory as water this company is ruthlessly exploiting resources and deliberately trying to strive for dominating as the worlds number one source of drinking water.
Edited by WonkoTheSane - 9/3/13 at 5:07pm
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #72 of 96
It's a parody of the "design description" videos featuring Jony Ive that Apple puts out. Kind of a dig at it, really, and yet, like everyone else (Samsung?), they are seeking to derive some benefit by copying (or perhaps mocking in this case) Apple's style.

Pretty bad though. And by the way? Post-Pocket KitKat is just so not edible.
Edited by tribalogical - 9/3/13 at 5:29pm
post #73 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

Zero $ apparently.

 

"This is not a money-changing-hands kind of deal," John Lagerling, director of Android global partnerships, told the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23926938

 

Yeah, "co-branding" as it's often referred to, is typically a non-compensated 'strategic marketing partnership' type of arrangement. They both derive some benefit, preferably as equally as possible, and mitigate whatever costs by sharing them. The "contest" helps to sell KitKats to people hoping to win a free Android device, and Google gets more awareness build. The more "everyday and ubiquitous" Android become to the general perception, the more entrenched they become.

post #74 of 96
I see KitKat is out with an Apple Jony Ive parody video. Apple execs must just laugh their asses off when they see these. Most of the time these parodies are worse than what they're making fun of. Also more and more tech companies are doing these kinds of videos (and usually with some bald guy or someone with an English accent), so really they're not just making fun of Apple but making fun of everyone who rips off Apple. And once again we see the focus on Apple even though everyone claims Apple is doomed, no longer hip and cool, etc. Why would anyone waste their time on a company that was supposedly doomed?

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/3/4690744/kit-kat-mocks-apple-with-android-parody-video
post #75 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post

I have to say that the video does remind me of Jony Ive's way of talking and presenting a product. Which I believe is kind of embarrassing for them.
I'm sure they would call it a parody, but one could argue parody is a form of flattery. Lets face it, Ive's videos work which is why Apple keeps doing them. Go on twitter after a product announcement and you'll see tweets about how Ive could sell someone dirty socks and they'd buy them. Or women (and men) swooning over his English accent.
post #76 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

This is....embarrassing.

Actually, in Germany we have a word called "fremdschämen" which basically means you're embarrassed on behalf of some else's behavior. Like in this case.

"fremdschämen", I like it, a bit like a step brother to 'schadenfreude', you have to hand it to Germans, who else but them could have a name for these concepts. My all time favourite though is the german word for 'tank'... die shutzgrabenvernichtungspanzerkraftwagen, it's easy to see why 'tank' caught on.

post #77 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregnacu View Post

Really, though? Poking fun at Jony Ive.  That's just weak.  Jony's the man, and they're clearly jealous that Apple's designs are more refined than anything in the Android ecosystem.

I was just going to say the exact same thing. Well said.
post #78 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

"fremdschämen", I like it, a bit like a step brother to 'schadenfreude', you have to hand it to Germans, who else but them could have a name for these concepts. My all time favourite though is the german word for 'tank'... die shutzgrabenvernichtungspanzerkraftwagen, it's easy to see why 'tank' caught on.

Or just Panzer...or Kampfpanzer.

Panzerkampfwagen is long enough and out of use...probably because of WWII connotations. So no more Wehrmacht and now Bundeswehr.
post #79 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stourque View Post


These numbers didn't make sense considering more than half the population can't afford to eat let alone pay for a smartphone. And then factor in the number of children, these figures would mean that pretty much everybody has a smartphone. Then I realized that the typical android user gets a new phone every year, so the number of users is a far different number than activations - about 75% less.

 

There are an estimated 7.1 billion people on the planet so your assumption that 1 billion is more than half the population would not be correct.  I have no idea how often a typical Android user gets a new phone, but for American the average is most likely every two years as many go with two year subsidized contract thru a phone carrier.

 

With that out of the way, I completely agree that the number of Android users is a much different number than activations and my post agreed with that (I'm not sure if you missed that aspect).  The post I was replying to suggested that the number was not accurate as well, but the reasoning he cited was factually inaccurate.  It would be more accurate to factor in repeat customers as a reason instead of the incorrect assumptions that were being made.  As mentioned, I account for three of those 1 billion activations and I'm only one person.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting the 75% figure (just made it up?).  That number seems on the high side to me, but not to an unreasonable degree.  It certainly doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

 

In the end I think we both agree that  activations does not equal number of users.


Edited by DroidFTW - 9/3/13 at 7:13pm
post #80 of 96

THey have to do something to attract the little children.

 

I like KitKat bars, but I ain't switching to Android.

 

Yeah, and 90+ % of the current Android owners won't get it the day it gets released.  

 

 

What IDIOTS.

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