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Leak: Samsung could beat Apple to the punch with fingerprint sensor in Note 3

post #1 of 112
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Apple's biggest rival, Samsung, may be getting ready to unveil its own fingerprint sensing technology today with the Galaxy Note 3, potentially taking some of the wind out of the next iPhone's sails even before the device is introduced.



According to one application package file (APK) list posted by noted tech news leaker @evleaks, a "FingerprintService.apk" file is among the many files included in that list. Additionally, a "trusted insider" said to work within Samsung India's R&D department has reportedly confirmed to Temefy that the newest generation of the Note will come with a fingerprint sensor and that it will have "an amazing feature."

According to reports, the sensor in the Note 3 will be used to unlock the smartphone, but also to enable a "Dual User Mode." Such an option would allow for the regular unlocking methods, such as password protection or simple swipe-to-unlock, but would give access to a user's sensitive files were it unlocked with the owner's fingerprint.

The source does not explain why Samsung did not roll out the technology with its much more popular Galaxy S4 flagship's debut earlier this year, but the South Korean tech giant could be simply testing the waters on the technology ahead of a larger rollout. The Note 2, predecessor to the device Samsung will announce today, is popular in its own right ? moving millions of units in its first two months of release ? so it could serve as a suitable testing ground for Samsung releasing the technology for a wider segment of its product line.

Should Samsung actually roll out fingerprint sensor technology with the Note 3, the tech giant could wind up getting a slight jump on its top rival, Apple. Apple is also expected to be ready to show off its own fingerprint sensor in the iPhone 5S. Apple purchased AuthenTec, developer of a Smart Sensor technology, last year, and has reportedly been working that sensor technology into the next iPhone. That device is set to be unveiled at a special event just under a week after Samsung's presentation at IFA in Berlin.

Fingerprint sensing technology, should it appear in one of the devices or both, will represent a significant move forward in mobile device security. Wells Fargo on Wednesday raised its projected price range for Apple stock on rumors of a fingerprint sensor, saying that the technology has the potential to drive corporate adoption of new handsets thanks to the strong security measures. It could also greatly boost mobile commerce, giving consumers a tough layer of security for NFC-based buying or other e-commerce that is not easily replicated.
post #2 of 112

If Samsung does use a fingerprint sensor, then who are they licensing the technology from? Validity is one company that's pushing their technology. We have no idea what Authentec is doing since they no longer have a website up touting their wares.

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post #3 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
 

... We have no idea what Authentec is doing since they no longer have a website up touting their wares.

 

Actually we do.  Authentec is no longer licensing it's tech, and the only devices out there that still use it are using the old tech, not the new stuff that Apple is presumably about to announce.  

 

Word in the industry is that Authentec is/was the best, and supposedly their new stuff (the stuff that Apple bought) makes their old stuff look bad by comparison.  Therefore it would seem likely that Samsungs scanner, whatever it is, will be less capable, less reliable and less easy to use than Apple's, either by a little, or by a lot.  We shall soon see in any case.  

post #4 of 112
If Samsung does release a fingerprint sensor, let's see if it infringes Apple's patents, and let's see how well it works.

Finger print sensors are common in many laptops but they are not in the screen and they do not work very well.

Question: What is the diagram in the article above? Where is it from?

====================

OK. I watched the presentation and Samsung did not introduce a fingerprint sensor.
Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/4/13 at 11:09am
post #5 of 112

Nobody puts a Galaxy Note in their pocket. Fingerprint sensors have been on laptops for over a decade now. The sweet spot is making one resilient enough for a smart phone's wear and tear, which I'd wager Samsung has yet to implement.

post #6 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
 

If Samsung does use a fingerprint sensor, then who are they licensing the technology from? Validity is one company that's pushing their technology. We have no idea what Authentec is doing since they no longer have a website up touting their wares.

 

Authentec was purchased by Apple. So we know exactly what they've been doing.

post #7 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

If Samsung does release a fingerprint sensor, let's see if it infringes Apple's patents, and let's see how well it works.

If a fingerprint sensor appeared in a movie from 40 years ago, it's prior art. Therefore, Samsung wins.

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post #8 of 112
I doubt it... Samsung could be the first to put a completely useless, easily by-passable fingerprint scanner in a mobile device - sure.

I sincerely doubt that they have mastered secure fingerprint scanning, as Apple likely has.

If anyone remembers, Mythbusters beat a plethora of scanners with simply a photocopy of a fingerprint... Just any fingerprint scanner won't do, I'm afraid.
post #9 of 112
If true, this just means that now we can give Samsung the Finger!

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post #10 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
 

 

Actually we do.  Authentec is no longer licensing it's tech, and the only devices out there that still use it are using the old tech, not the new stuff that Apple is presumably about to announce.

 

Word in the industry is that Authentec is/was the best, and supposedly their new stuff (the stuff that Apple bought) makes their old stuff look bad by comparison.  Therefore it would seem likely that Samsungs scanner, whatever it is, will be less capable, less reliable and less easy to use than Apple's, either by a little, or by a lot.  We shall soon see in any case.

 

I'm quite sure Authentec is working on something big or else Apple wouldn't have dropped $350 million on them. Compare that to what Apple paid for PA Semi and Intrinsity (who are arguably responsible for the most important part of iOS devices, the A-Series processors).

 

However, we still don't know what their actually technology is. Meanwhile Validity's website talks about how they have the smallest and most accurate sensor but they don't say who or what they're comparing it to.

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post #11 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

I doubt it... Samsung could be the first to put a completely useless, easily by-passable fingerprint scanner in a mobile device - sure.

I sincerely doubt that they have mastered secure fingerprint scanning, as Apple likely has.

If anyone remembers, Mythbusters beat a plethora of scanners with simply a photocopy of a fingerprint... Just any fingerprint scanner won't do, I'm afraid.
Agree. If it has one it'll use the same old technology used in Motorola's fingerprint scanner - meaning it just won't work very well. But Samsung will do it just so they and their fans can say they were "first".
post #12 of 112

Bring it! Will be great to see which one works better and is more reliable long-term. It's one thing to have a feature, it's another for it to work well and keep working well.

 

Anticipating the "Samsung already has that!" when Apple rolls theirs out ... should make for a wonderful new round of forum spats (just what we needed more of).

post #13 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy0guns View Post
 

Nobody puts a Galaxy Note in their pocket.

 

Everyone I know that has one does put it in their pocket, at least the Galaxy Note 2.

 

Assuming the sensor is something third parties can support, Apple's would have far greater impact by nature of the number of units that would ship with it which would greatly encourage 3rd party support.

 

Unless Samsung makes an announcement that their sensor was going on all their phones and they would be immediately updated, I don't think it would have much of an impact on the marketplace.

 

-kpluck

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post #14 of 112
I'm sure it will be amazing! I anticipate a well-integrated, well thought out, refined, non-gimicky implementation of a feature that I won't be able to figure out how I ever lived without.

Like all the stuff on the S4 that everyone turns off.

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post #15 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

I'm sure it will be amazing! I anticipate a well-integrated, well thought out, refined, non-gimicky implementation of a feature that I won't be able to figure out how I ever lived without.

Like all the stuff on the S4 that everyone turns off.
Lol
post #16 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
 

If Samsung does use a fingerprint sensor, then who are they licensing the technology from? Validity is one company that's pushing their technology. We have no idea what Authentec is doing since they no longer have a website up touting their wares.

 

I believe Samsung licensed some technology from AuthenTec in the past but not the new in display technology that Apple developed and patented.  The on screen fingerprint capability will be more durable and accurate.


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/4/13 at 8:00am
post #17 of 112
Shamesuck is good at keeping a cat . This cat always punches Apple .
post #18 of 112

It is now 5 PM in Berlin, at what time were they planning to announce?

 

======

 

OK.  They plan to announce at 1:00 pm ET.  (10:00 am PT)


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/4/13 at 9:18am
post #19 of 112
Undercooked spaghetti, meet wall.

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post #20 of 112
Only difference between Samsung's fingerprint scanner and Apple's fingerprint scanner is that Apple's scanner will actually work.
post #21 of 112
This is the correct way to use a fingerprint scanner: As a second, added, method of authentication. Never use it as the only method of authentication. It's too easy to fake fingerprints.

Apple has (rumored) added the ability to tell if the fingerprint is from a living being, versus just a plastic molded fake.

Will Samsung get it right? It's hard to tell from this report. But I seriously doubt it. Watch Samsung allow a fingerprint scan as a sole method of authentication, totally blowing the concept of two-factor authentication. But occasionally they get things right. We shall see.

Oh and their 'amazing feature'? I'm betting on it bringing up a picture of the person (real or fake) providing the fingerprint. Whoopee Wow zzzzzzzzz
post #22 of 112

The key "feature" will be reliability. To date fingerprint sensors have been notoriously unreliable. Andy Ihnatko has been hammering away on this point on the MacBreak Weekly podcast. It has to always work on the first swipe and it has to be completely reliable. If not, most people will simply turn the feature off after a few tries. Who can be bothered swiping their finger two or three times to unlock their phone. If Apple has this truly nailed then it could be huge. If not then it will just be another tech spec that goes ignored and unused.

post #23 of 112

I suspect Samsuck didn't know what to do with its fingerprint tech until all the rumors started flying around

post #24 of 112

It is not a feature war, it is all about how it gets implemented. How transparent it is. I guess Samsung will put a fingerprint reader like the ones we get in some laptops. From the rumors we assume Apple will place it in the home button.  On the software side I hope this introduces the option to have personalized icon layouts for different users of a device and encryption.

post #25 of 112
Motorola beat them both, so I suspect Apple won't care if they were first or if Samsung says they were first. Apple didn't have the first touchscreen phone or first tablet ether.

What will matter is: Who is best? Anyone care to wager that the makers of the "Don't have to touch the screen the use it touchscreen" and "S-Voice" can possibly implement something better than Apple?
post #26 of 112
Supposedly the problem with current sensors is that in order to be accurate, the design imposed some degree of fragility as a result. Samsung's sensor may work, even as well as Apple's, in the short term, and thus it may take some wind out of Apple's sails (though not necessarily their sales), as reports of its unreliability won't be seen until sometime after both products launch.
post #27 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Actually we do.  Authentec is no longer licensing it's tech, and the only devices out there that still use it are using the old tech, not the new stuff that Apple is presumably about to announce.  

Word in the industry is that Authentec is/was the best, and supposedly their new stuff (the stuff that Apple bought) makes their old stuff look bad by comparison.  Therefore it would seem likely that Samsungs scanner, whatever it is, will be less capable, less reliable and less easy to use than Apple's, either by a little, or by a lot.  We shall soon see in any case.  

Didn't we have a "weekend editorial" here a couple weeks back that said Samsung and others wouldn't be able to add fingerprint scanning because of the way Apple had locked things up? IF Samsung really is including it I won't be surprised if it's simply a "me too" add-on that won't be any more useful that their silly eye-tracking.

EDIT: This one
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-inc-gets-its-fingerprints-on-advanced-touch-sensor-appears-difficult-for-android-to-copy
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post #28 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

Only difference between Samsung's fingerprint scanner and Apple's fingerprint scanner is that Apple's scanner will actually work.

 

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post #29 of 112
Samsung just might be releasing their fingerprint technology just to "say" they are first, whether their feature is good or not. They market themselves so well, it's not necessarily who has the best, but who markets themselves better to the masses. Samsung has done that very well.
post #30 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

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Considering this is all still rumor, your trolling is unnecessary.

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post #31 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Didn't we have a "weekend editorial" here a couple weeks back that said Samsung and others wouldn't be able to add fingerprint scanning because of the way Apple had locked things up? IF Samsung really is including it I won't be surprised if it's simply a "me too" add-on that won't be any more useful that their silly eye-tracking.

EDIT: This one
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-inc-gets-its-fingerprints-on-advanced-touch-sensor-appears-difficult-for-android-to-copy

It has been done before on smart phones (Motorola ATRIX) so nothing new whether Samsung or Apple does it.  It all comes down to implementation  and where it will take you in the future.  Samsung is all show and Apple does things to do then right and make them useful long term.

 

You won't be surprised about Samsung's hype, that is for sure.

post #32 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by IYFCalvin View Post

Samsung just might be releasing their fingerprint technology just to "say" they are first, whether their feature is good or not. They market themselves so well, it's not necessarily who has the best, but who markets themselves better to the masses. Samsung has done that very well.

If by better you mean constantly and everywhere, then yes :)

post #33 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
 

 

I'm quite sure Authentec is working on something big or else Apple wouldn't have dropped $350 million on them. Compare that to what Apple paid for PA Semi and Intrinsity (who are arguably responsible for the most important part of iOS devices, the A-Series processors).

 

However, we still don't know what their actually technology is. Meanwhile Validity's website talks about how they have the smallest and most accurate sensor but they don't say who or what they're comparing it to.

 

Well at the time Apple acquired them they had just announced a revolutionary new type of sensor that had two main qualities touted.  One was the ability to detect whether the finger in question was "alive" (supposedly going around the old "cut off his finger and take it with you" trick), and the other was the ability to integrate the detector into a standard touchscreen so that you wouldn't have to use a prissy little chip or put your finger in any particular place on the side of the phone etc. 

 

If rumours are correct, Apple hasn't availed itself of this later idea and is instead putting a silly little sensor in the home button, so we won't really know what kind of tech they are using or what version of Authentec's ideas they are using until it comes out.  It's pretty much a lock that whatever it is, it's better than whatever Samsung is using, but beyond that we will have to wait a few weeks to find out. 

post #34 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy0guns View Post
 

Nobody puts a Galaxy Note in their pocket.

My boss does, though he wears alot of cargo type pants.

post #35 of 112
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #36 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

I doubt it... Samsung could be the first to put a completely useless, easily by-passable fingerprint scanner in a mobile device - sure.

I sincerely doubt that they have mastered secure fingerprint scanning, as Apple likely has.

If anyone remembers, Mythbusters beat a plethora of scanners with simply a photocopy of a fingerprint... Just any fingerprint scanner won't do, I'm afraid.

The advance in technology might have to do with accuracy, but more importantly the scanners have a short shelf life dying early. Apple's advanced is rumored to increase the shelf life of the scanner.
post #37 of 112
Another stupid article.

So what if samesung releases a fingerprint sensor. It's not like finger print sensors have never been deployed on mobile devices before.

The idea that somehow Apple's success comes from being the only ones to implement a technology. When it's a brand new tech that Apple invented, yes.

But for fingerprint sensors?

Whose writing this site these days? "Boy Genius" report?
post #38 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

I was thinking about that article....

 

I guess we'll see what becomes of it later today

post #39 of 112
While I read every rumor about what Apple is doing, I hate that these kind of leaks have allowed their competition to focus on beating them at whatever they are planning before they ever announce it. I hope the move more production to the US. The only device they have been able to keep quiet is the New Mac Pro.
post #40 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekCurrie View Post

This is the correct way to use a fingerprint scanner: As a second, added, method of authentication. Never use it as the only method of authentication. It's too easy to fake fingerprints.

Apple has (rumored) added the ability to tell if the fingerprint is from a living being, versus just a plastic molded fake.
 

It's pretty well documented how Authentec's technology is purported to work.   It's hard to fake a 3D fingerprint.

 

 

Agreed the fingerprint should be part of the authentication

1) The device Identifier should be paired with the AppleID, and should have a password to marry the 2

2) the fingerprint then verifies to the device that the person is who they say they are

3) the combo platter to external internet applications get Identity(device, password (app specific... from keychain), fingerprint)... if any 2 of  the 3 don't match, then raise alerts.

 

The key item is that the iOS device becomes a token, that is smart enough to take 2 forms of authentication.   It's hard not to miss your IOS device, and if it requires a fingerprint scan at the time of a fraudulent purpose... it's even harder not to miss your finger(s);-)

 

But,  I am waiting for the first iPhone plus finger amputation theft.

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