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WSJ reaffirms 'iPhone 5S' to boast fingerprint sensor, 'iPhone 5C' left without

post #1 of 58
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Less than one day before Apple is expected to unveil its new iPhone lineup, a report from The Wall Street Journal reiterates rumors that the flagship "iPhone 5S" will carry a biometric fingerprint reader.

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A component claimed to be Apple's "iPhone 5S" fingerprint scanner. Picture via Sonny Dickson.


People familiar with the matter told the publication last week that fingerprint scanners will be built into the "more expensive of two iPhones" Apple plans to announce at a media event on Tuesday, seemingly confirming a long stream of rumors regarding the feature's inclusion.

The publication speculates that Apple's entry into the biometric security segment will spark interest from other handset makers to find similar solution. Another source claims at least one smartphone running Google's Android will incorporate fingerprint security, though it is unknown if the device will be marketed in the U.S.

Apple is expected to field a fingerprint sensor built by AuthenTec, a biometric security firm the Cupertino company purchased for $356 million in 2012, and plans to place the module under the iPhone's home button. While other handsets and computers have tried to use fingerprinting methods in the past, Apple's solution is thought to be much more intuitive and less prone to error.

Instead of swiping a finger across a small sensor strip, the AuthenTec package uses RF field attenuation to map a user's print. This static means of capture would allow iPhone owners to authenticate by simply pressing the home button as they would when waking the phone from sleep.

Most recently, rumors of a "silver ring" surrounding the "iPhone 5S" home button surfaced, with some claiming the part was added as an aesthetic flourish. AppleInsider, however, reported that Apple's patent applications suggest the component likely serves a functional purpose in the fingerprint sensor's design.

All should be revealed at tomorrow's event, which is scheduled to kick off at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. AppleInsider will be providing live coverage of the proceedings.
post #2 of 58
I thought both would have the sensor if they were going to release an iWallet, on the logic that Apple would get a slice of all transactions and want as many devices to have the ability as possible. Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.
post #3 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

(...) While other handsets and computers have tried to use fingerprinting methods in the past, Apple's solution is thought to be much more intuitive and less prone to error. (...)

 

If AuthenTec's technology is truly unique and as reliable as it's being reported then this kind of tech will certainly keep Apple's competition at bay for a little while, at least.

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post #4 of 58

Malaysia thieves steal finger

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm

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post #5 of 58
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
Malaysia thieves steal finger

 

Willfully ignorant repost crap.

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post #6 of 58

Essentially no news here...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I thought both would have the sensor if they were going to release an iWallet, on the logic that Apple would get a slice of all transactions and want as many devices to have the ability as possible. Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.

 

The fingerprint sensor will simply be a convenience because Apple can just assign a PIN for purchases on devices without fingerprint sensors.

 

On another note, I found this site from PayPal interesting:

 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/beacon

 

Apple unveiled "iBeacons" at WWDC and many here have thought payment should be done through Bluetooth rather than NFC. Maybe Apple is planning to use iBeacons for the iWallet and the FP tech. I doubt Apple is going to announce a partnership with PayPal, but PayPal seems to be stealing the Beacon idea from Apple.

post #7 of 58
I hope we get more than just unlocking the device. I'd love for there to be a surprise, something that didnt leak out that has people pleasantly surprised.
post #8 of 58

So "S" is for Security and "C" for Color.

post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I hope we get more than just unlocking the device. I'd love for there to be a surprise, something that didnt leak out that has people pleasantly surprised.

 

I'm thinking iWallet Payment is coming. Either through NFC or their new iBeacon APIs that they released during WWDC.

 

It'll take a lot of people by surprise that's for sure.

post #10 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.

If the fingerprint sensor is real, iWallet could be rolled out at any time in an iOS update. Probably after enough retailers join the program or some other tipping point. Maybe for this holiday season? (And maybe only in Apple Stores at first, to help speed up all those millions of iPhone and iPad accessory "stocking stuffer" sales this winter.)
Edited by SockRolid - 9/9/13 at 11:04pm

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post #11 of 58
A better headline would be "iPhone 5S fingerprint sensor rumor ricochets around the Web, AppleInsider calls it 'reaffirming'."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #12 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post
 

On another note, I found this site from PayPal interesting:

 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/beacon

 

Apple unveiled "iBeacons" at WWDC and many here have thought payment should be done through Bluetooth rather than NFC. Maybe Apple is planning to use iBeacons for the iWallet and the FP tech. I doubt Apple is going to announce a partnership with PayPal, but PayPal seems to be stealing the Beacon idea from Apple.

 

The "beacon" concept is really part of BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). Apple has iBeacon, Sony has sBeacon... don't think it is "stealing" from Apple (or Sony for that matter), they just use the same technology to create little local network cells that do not require any configuration to connect users.

post #13 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post
 

So "S" is for Security and "C" for Color.

 

"C" is for Cheap  ;)

 

What I want to know is this:  

Will PersonA (an iPhone 5S user) be able to pick up PersonB's iPhone 5S and easily access his/her (PersonA's) iCloud data?

 

This would obviously require some portion of fingerprint data be stored on the iCloud servers, but it would be almost magic if people could hotswap on the same phone using just their finger.

post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I thought both would have the sensor if they were going to release an iWallet, on the logic that Apple would get a slice of all transactions and want as many devices to have the ability as possible. Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.

Very good point! Now how about the iPad?
post #15 of 58
I think the silver ring is a metallic conductor that acts to detect finger press for HOME so to replace the short life span ductile button used on all existing iPhones and may as well roll out to iPads and iPods. Or might be like all who thinks its a RF field antenna to generate RF to detect finger print....or it could be use as both which could be hell for those who thinks of copying!
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post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I hope we get more than just unlocking the device. I'd love for there to be a surprise, something that didnt leak out that has people pleasantly surprised.

 

I think it is totally possible that some things might come with point updates to iOS 7, at least for tablets they really seem to struggle a bit getting it ready.

post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post
 

 

The "beacon" concept is really part of BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). Apple has iBeacon, Sony has sBeacon... don't think it is "stealing" from Apple (or Sony for that matter), they just use the same technology to create little local network cells that do not require any configuration to connect users.

 

Oh, I didn't know about Sony's solution. Do they even have any BLE devices? 

 

Anyway good to know. 

 

One thing I like about PayPal's solution is retailers would only have to add a small USB dongle onto their computers to make the whole system work. Talk about ease of implementation.

 

If Apple could release such a system tomorrow that was as easy for retailers as it is for consumers, this could BE HUGE (bigger than the iPhone itself) for Apple, with likely massive implementation from retailers if it's easy and cheap (relative to the installation of NFC readers).

post #18 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiced View Post

I think the silver ring is a metallic conductor that acts to detect finger press for HOME so to replace the short life span ductile button used on all existing iPhones and may as well roll out to iPads and iPods. Or might be like all who thinks its a RF field antenna to generate RF to detect finger print....or it could be use as both which could be hell for those who thinks of copying!

 

I was thinking something similar. What if the new FP sensing home button is a capacitive touch button and not a physical button?

 

That would help the whole device last longer.

post #19 of 58
I'd be happy with the phone if the main purpose of the fingerprint reader was not connected to identity or wallets at all.

For me, it would be great if I could register different functions to each of my fingers. For example, touching the sensor with my left index finger should unlock the phone and go directly to the camera application. Another finger would immediately call my parter.

That would be a killer application - and sell phones.

Anyone else agree?
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DethByUngaBunga View Post
 

What I want to know is this:  

Will PersonA (an iPhone 5S user) be able to pick up PersonB's iPhone 5S and easily access his/her (PersonA's) iCloud data?

 

This would obviously require some portion of fingerprint data be stored on the iCloud servers, but it would be almost magic if people could hotswap on the same phone using just their finger.

 

You would not really have to store fingerprint data itself to do that (and before there is confusion, this sensor does not even copy a fingerprint, so it can't send a copy of it anywhere), you would just have to store an encoded, or better hashed, value generated from this unique data. Identification is really not the problem here.

 

The problem is rather if this concept makes any sense. Sure, you would (with quite a delay to download all the data for the other account, including the latest 1000 pics from photo-stream, all mailboxes etc.) have access to your iCloud data, but all non-iCloud apps on the phone would still show the other user's data. Every user change would consume ample bandwidth and local apps would still not be "secure". To make this (potential) feature useful, iOS would need multiple user accounts first, I guess.

post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvin1632 View Post

I'd be happy with the phone if the main purpose of the fingerprint reader was not connected to identity or wallets at all.

For me, it would be great if I could register different functions to each of my fingers. For example, touching the sensor with my left index finger should unlock the phone and go directly to the camera application. Another finger would immediately call my parter.

That would be a killer application - and sell phones.

Anyone else agree?

With the nose also?
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeelive View Post


With the nose also?

 

I hope, figuratively, that this discussion does not go any deeper.

post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvin1632 View Post

I'd be happy with the phone if the main purpose of the fingerprint reader was not connected to identity or wallets at all.

For me, it would be great if I could register different functions to each of my fingers. For example, touching the sensor with my left index finger should unlock the phone and go directly to the camera application. Another finger would immediately call my parter.

That would be a killer application - and sell phones.

Anyone else agree?

Sounds like a gimmick to me. Maybe we'll see it on an android device, but I would be shocked to see it on an iPhone.

Security OTOH is a universally useful feature even for people who don't appreciate it.
post #24 of 58
If Tim Cook is smart, he'll introduce the 5C as "c is for color, china and cheap" and take the wind out of the competitions sails right off the bat. Own it.
post #25 of 58
Wasn't a few Walmarts experimenting with using an iPhone to scan items while shopping and at check out earlier this year?
post #26 of 58
I'm just not excited in the least to have a fingerprint scanner on my phone, much less available to anyone who is able to hack phones. What is it really good for? I don't find it that bothersome to enter a pin. I almost do it subconsciously now anyway. Most of the banks in my area stopped using fingerprinting or scanning long ago. Not to be obtuse, but what's the point?

There has to be a lot more to it.
My wild guess? If the new home button really is some kind of sapphire lens material, it could be a special type of gesture sensing camera that is much better at its' job than the front facing camera is. That would be progress. That would cause some excitement and wonder. Fingerprint sensor? Meh- give me the cheap one in that case.
"We have been taught to believe that negative equals realistic and positive equals unrealistic."
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"We have been taught to believe that negative equals realistic and positive equals unrealistic."
-Susan Jeffers
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post #27 of 58

What about the in-display fingerprint sensor?

 

Will that technology be used as well in the iPhone 5S ?

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/18/apple-details-in-display-fingerprint-sensor-tech-in-patent-filing-from-authentec-cofounder

post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I thought both would have the sensor if they were going to release an iWallet, on the logic that Apple would get a slice of all transactions and want as many devices to have the ability as possible. Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.

 

Why would Apple build the next tent-pole, premium feature into their budget handset? They want to sell you an iPhone, but, given the choice, they would prefer to sell you an iPhone 5S.

 

This sets them up for next year where they may offer iPhone 5 (2 colours, no scanner), iPhone 5S (4 colours, scanner) and a newly designed iPhone 6 (multiple colours, scanner and more).

 

iWallet functionality is definitely on the roadmap but likely won't arrive immediately. If I was Apple I would debut the fingerprint scanner with a smaller set of limited features (like not having to enter passwords). Only when it's in the hands of many consumers and you have established trust in the system do you evolve it to take on broader roles, like real world transactions.


There is a similar progression to every big feature Apple implements. Siri originally launched as a novelty and a timesaver for a small set of tasks. Siri's real magic will be in enticing developers to present application data in a standardised format that can be recognised by an AI. Since Apple avoided a centralised file system all your data has a context. Siri could eventually become the AI mechanism by which contextual information can be collated and compared between apps through a natural language/logic interface. This would represent a genuine revelation in personal computing. Noone is better positioned to leverage this than Apple.

post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I hope we get more than just unlocking the device. I'd love for there to be a surprise, something that didnt leak out that has people pleasantly surprised.


I think it is totally possible that some things might come with point updates to iOS 7, at least for tablets they really seem to struggle a bit getting it ready.

By having the features in a maintained release it allows Apple to obscure the APIs from developers. This allows Tim to get his big launch on stage with something that secret, and he can announce that it is coming soon.
post #30 of 58
this is a load of crap.. not happening.
post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiced View Post

I think the silver ring is a metallic conductor that acts to detect finger press for HOME so to replace the short life span ductile button used on all existing iPhones and may as well roll out to iPads and iPods. Or might be like all who thinks its a RF field antenna to generate RF to detect finger print....or it could be use as both which could be hell for those who thinks of copying!

The ring delivers a small charge to the skin's surface to assist the sensor with imaging the fingerprint. It's a circle so it will work the same in any device orientation.


Apple won't replace a hardware home button with a capacitive button. They may use it to recognise a touch event in addition to a press event but it won't replace it a press event. They tried that with the 3rd generation iPod and we never saw it again. Even their track-pads are click-able. I've never experienced any home button problems with any of the iOS devices I've owned so I contest your assumption that they have a short lifespan.

post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post
 

 

I was thinking something similar. What if the new FP sensing home button is a capacitive touch button and not a physical button?

 

That would help the whole device last longer.

 

It would also be a terrible idea because capacitive buttons get activated accidentally. ALL. THE. FREAKING. TIME.

 

Do you not already press the dictation button on the keyboard when trying to access numbers multiple times a day already?

post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I thought both would have the sensor if they were going to release an iWallet, on the logic that Apple would get a slice of all transactions and want as many devices to have the ability as possible. Now I'm thinking the iWallet comes next year.

 

I thought the same.  The daringfireball referenced article today on the demand curve was telling in the other side...  how do you differentiate your 'high value' phone from your lower value phones, especially when released in parallel.

 

My guess is the high end iPhone and iPad(s) will have it for a while.   While mobile shopping is cool, Internet banking requires this now (well, 2 years ago).     Once you get people used to doing this for banking/financial apps, then it will drive to ecommerce apps, and then the experience will be 'expected and understood.'  At that point, the 'point to pay' apps will be considered weak sauce unless they use the technology and the interaction experience (sort of like multitouch....  your fingers will just know what to do).

 

iwallet?  I predict it's passbook2.  The combo platter of coupons/gift cards/and credit/debit cards... and/or your AppleID backed account.  

post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvin1632 View Post

I'd be happy with the phone if the main purpose of the fingerprint reader was not connected to identity or wallets at all.

For me, it would be great if I could register different functions to each of my fingers. For example, touching the sensor with my left index finger should unlock the phone and go directly to the camera application. Another finger would immediately call my parter.

That would be a killer application - and sell phones.

Anyone else agree?

 

appears the answer is no.

post #35 of 58
N
Edited by 512ke - 9/9/13 at 10:31pm
post #36 of 58
I'm a little confused on how iwallet will work. Whether you use Bluetooth or NFC technology, if the store doesn't have a wireless point of sales, then it wouldn't work. Would it not be a better idea for a person To scan their fingerprint and then scan their actual screen with a barcode on it? I'm just not sure how long it would take for all the store in the USA to get wireless Point of sales hardware.
post #37 of 58

New high-res version of the iPhone 5S box picture we've seen before.

 

post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DethByUngaBunga View Post
 

 

"C" is for Cheap  ;)

 

What I want to know is this:  

Will PersonA (an iPhone 5S user) be able to pick up PersonB's iPhone 5S and easily access his/her (PersonA's) iCloud data?

 

This would obviously require some portion of fingerprint data be stored on the iCloud servers, but it would be almost magic if people could hotswap on the same phone using just their finger.

 

it's not obvious... in fact as pointed out... it's flat wrong.

 

First off, the 'owner' of the phone (personB) must provision this access to her phone, which will require personB to log in, authenticate (with a fingerprint) to the device, and say "allow this person to access my phone with the privilege of a local profile [registered AppleID mapped local app data storage]"  Then Person A would be prompted in a secure manner [ any attempt to leave will bring the phone to the lock screen of personB] to enter there AppleID and password, and once verified, a fingerprint on the local device is registered [and a hash of that combo is sent to Apple], and a local 'unlock' password is requested.

 

as to your real desire, In the end, Apple may in the future support multiple profiles on each phone, using icloud as a backing store... but that means each app needs to sync to the iCloud to do so.   

 

And that's why I think the new iPads will have this feature...  because, multiple profiles on an iPad makes so much more sense in a family setting or corporate/shared setting.

post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Malaysia thieves steal finger

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm

This sensor also senses the pattern of blood flow in the finger. It won't work if the finger isn't attached.
post #40 of 58
I don't think Apple will go iWallet (or however you want to call it), simply because it wouldn't make sense then NOT to equip the 5C with the required tech, keeping the amount of potential customers much lower and therefore not encouraging stores to implement the counterpart that much.
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