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Apple unveils new iPhone 5c in green, blue, red, yellow & white starting at $99, launching Sept. 20 - Page 4

post #121 of 165
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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It looks like the 5C was their way of improving margins. The 5S is clearly the better product and having plastic components will lower their build costs. Having the upsell to the 5S increases their average selling price. If they'd kept the iPhone 5 around, that would have lowered margins and driven people to the 5 over the 5S.

Some analysts were probably excited to see the 5C as they've been banging on about Apple making a cheaper iPhone for emerging markets. Sitting between the 4S and 5S, the 5C isn't the cheap phone they were looking for.

A play for higher ASP in a commodified market is lunacy.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #122 of 165
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Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Anyone knows how they customize iOS7 to match the color of the backplate? Many possibilities come to mind, the most obvious one being an assembly/QC technician *programming* it in as one of the last steps after *burn-in*. But I wonder if Ive has designed in something to make it automatic. That would be way cool.

They offer the choices as different wallpaper. Chose one to match the case or the cover...or something else completely. It's also easy to chose a photo you've taken as well.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #123 of 165
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Originally Posted by ProApple View Post
 

Key for Apple is ability to price these phones for $20 USD per month deal.  If they can get some kind of long term contract pricing like that, then this will take off in China and India.  Consumers don't seem to care about length of deal, but how much they need to pay per month.

 

India has had some special arrangements for a while now. Reports are it's well received and perhaps that model will spread where carriers allow it.

post #124 of 165
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
Why would Tim cook definitely know what he is doing any more than Elop or Ballmer. It's possible he is out if his depth.

 

Yep, that's why he's CEO of the most successful company on Earth right now, why he was the best COO perhaps of all time, and why people keep buying the products Apple makes, huh.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #125 of 165
Tallest Skil,

Hmmm not your 499, 399, 299, 199 but $99, that s roughtly Rs 7,500 Indian rupees, ths going to smash Samsung, Nokia and other wannabe straight on nose! I am expecting Apple to taker BIG marketshare in India.

Will watch the presentation in peace and quiet now.

Soul

P.S. that maybe supported cost in USA, so wait for unlocked cost, hopefully, not big increase.
post #126 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It looks like the 5C was their way of improving margins. The 5S is clearly the better product and having plastic components will lower their build costs. Having the upsell to the 5S increases their average selling price. If they'd kept the iPhone 5 around, that would have lowered margins and driven people to the 5 over the 5S.

Some analysts were probably excited to see the 5C as they've been banging on about Apple making a cheaper iPhone for emerging markets. Sitting between the 4S and 5S, the 5C isn't the cheap phone they were looking for.

Well, this way no one can make jokes about the "C" in 5C standing for "cheap." But seriously, Apple wasn't turning to plastic to submarine the price, they are looking to use color to be their marketing tool for the next couple years or so and plastic is the way to do that best. Apple needs to keep that caché aura about its products, even while moving downward with the price... but not meeting the competition with price. With enough margin built into the price, the product can be highly marketed. The combination of Apple stores and heavy marketing will work to Apple's benefit in the long run.

A $300 iPhone would win in the short run, but lose in the long run because it leverages nothing Apple has unique. It really is not smart for Apple to engage in a price battle because that plays to Samsung's strength. Cede the low end and go for the mid and upper market segments, that's where customer loyalty and the money is at.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #127 of 165
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post
Hmmm not your 499, 399, 299, 199 but $99, that s roughtly Rs 7,500 Indian rupees, ths going to smash Samsung, Nokia and other wannabe straight on nose! I am expecting Apple to taker BIG marketshare in India.


But wasn't your original point that it needed to be 'cheap' off-contract? That's the contract price. Off-contract, it's $549. If there's a $20 a month contract in India that affords the contract price, it will sure be big.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #128 of 165

At the end, we should stop expecting Apple to be ... Samsung. 

 

As stated many times by Tim Cook, its two main criteria in a product are : customer satisfaction and "usefulness" of the product. I have few doubts that the iPhones presented today will both have high user ratings. I also have few doubts that they will be "useful". 

 

People feared Apple won't be the same after Steve Jobs. The good news: it is the same company. How many times S. Jobs stated he did not care about share markets? That he wanted to make great products before all (people should stop complaining about the "plastic" iPhone before using one)?

 

This good news comes with a price however... And "no" I do not understand their pricing strategy between the 5c and 5s : )

 

From today, I'll stop believing rumors about "cheap" products from Apple! That won't happen any soon. It's not necessarily a bad news. 

post #129 of 165

I think a lot of people are missing the picture here...Apple does not want customers in the US/EU to buy the 5C, they want you to buy the 5S. The 5c is aimed at China, India, Brazil and other emerging markets. My guess is that we will quickly see the details Apple has worked out with carriers like China Mobile to offer the 5c at very affordable prices in these markets. The 5c is a world phone specifically designed for Asia and other emerging markets...and it will sell very well!!

post #130 of 165
Well on the plus side my iphone 5 will hold it's aftermarket value till iphone 6. I can't imagine any adult males wanting those terrible colors on the 5c. The lumia colors are way nicer imo.
post #131 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 


But wasn't your original point that it needed to be 'cheap' off-contract? That's the contract price. Off-contract, it's $549. If there's a $20 a month contract in India that affords the contract price, it will sure be big.

 

From a Chuck Jones Forbes article there's a 5,056 Rupee iPhone 5 offer ($93) that The Mobilestore in India is reported to have attributed to their tripling sales while June Quarter results were reported up 400%. So there's been flexibility overseas.

post #132 of 165

It seems like this will make people want the iphone 5 more, if they don't like the colors and if the starting price is 549 off contract, then my iphone 5 64 gb should fetch a pretty penny.

post #133 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDO2000 View Post

Well on the plus side my iphone 5 will hold it's aftermarket value till iphone 6. I can't imagine any adult males wanting those terrible colors on the 5c. The lumia colors are way nicer imo.

 

Far, far more than "adult males" buy smartphones.

 

And any male adult enough will go for the 5s over the old 5. :)

post #134 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


But wasn't your original point that it needed to be 'cheap' off-contract? That's the contract price. Off-contract, it's $549. If there's a $20 a month contract in India that affords the contract price, it will sure be big.

But you forgot to quote my P.S. comments, since I did state that was US supported cost and we will have to understand the unlocked cost in India, funny why would you quote, half of my comments.
post #135 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

/s

I guess the "s" in iphone5s stands for jump the shark. Thanks for pointing it out.
post #136 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


A $300 iPhone would win in the short run, but lose in the long run because it leverages nothing Apple has unique. It really is not smart for Apple to engage in a price battle because that plays to Samsung's strength. Cede the low end and go for the mid and upper market segments, that's where customer loyalty and the money is at.

 

I don't know if I fully agree with this. Thinking long term, how many new users would a cheaper 5C have brought into the apple ecosystem. How many more apps/itunes/accessories/applecare plans purchased. Think of the 5C as a gateway drug, once you get the people sucked in to iEverything, Android and Samsung have little of value to offer (at the cheaper end).  Next iteration, the new apple user finds they can get a decent price for their used 5C and are likely to consider upgrading to the 5S level model. 

Most cheap android phones we ever had were worth squat after 2 years.

post #137 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

A play for higher ASP in a commodified market is lunacy.

Smart Phones are becoming a commodified market, but Apple is avoiding that aspect of the smart phone market. There's no money there. For customers that want a different experience, Apple wants to fill that desire. So, while General Motors sells more commodity cars then prestige cars, Prestige car companies that don't offer commodity cars, sell more prestige cars then does General Motors. As long as Apple doesn't appeal to or act like they are in the commodity product business, they can ask for the margins of a jewelry store and lead the market just as they have done so for decades.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #138 of 165
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Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

From a Chuck Jones Forbes article there's a 5,056 Rupee iPhone 5 offer ($93) that The Mobilestore in India is reported to have attributed to their tripling sales while June Quarter results were reported up 400%. So there's been flexibility overseas.

I live in India and did not know, must investigate. I can buy one for Diwali lottery, we have every year.
post #139 of 165

Remember that scene of young Jonny, Steve and the sketch of the future iMac in the "Jobs" movie? Young devilishly gifted Jonny does ship a awful design and waits for Jobs to pay attention and push him "Tell me what you sincerely think..."

The movie in itself might not have been the best one, but they appear to have a clue...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #140 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Why would Tim cook definitely know what he is doing any more than Elop or Ballmer. It's possible he is out if his depth.

Tim Cook built the global supply and sales monster that Apple has become over the last ten or so years. It's more than obvious that he's master of that part of the business, even when admitting mistakes like the lamination difficulties and early shorting of iMac supplies.

Steve Jobs assembled the visionary infrastructure. Tim Cook has that to draw on. The master editorial function has moved from Jobs to Ive. It looks like he's enough of a general to dismiss a loose Jobs-favored cannon like Forstall.

Ballmer was never a big picture guy. Don't know much about Elop, but anyone who backs Windows 8 . . .

Tim Cook gets what Apple is about and he can steer the ship and delegate to the crew. I don't see any problem.
post #141 of 165
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post
I guess the "s" in iphone5s stands for jump the shark. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

Go to MacRumors.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #142 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


I live in India and did not know, must investigate. I can buy one for Diwali lottery, we have every year.

 

I'm not sure whether the full article has any more information for you but here's the link: 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2013/09/10/even-with-a-higher-than-expected-price-iphone-sales-should-be-strong-in-the-december-quarter/

post #143 of 165
I love the design, just thought it would be $429 or $499 off contract instead of $599 (Canada). Still pricey if purchasing an unlocked device, but definitely priced right at the subsidized level.
post #144 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDO2000 View Post

Well on the plus side my iphone 5 will hold it's aftermarket value till iphone 6.

It seems like they have started 2 device categories; the S and the C. So the next iPhones would be the iPhone 6C and 6S.
post #145 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


I live in India and did not know, must investigate. I can buy one for Diwali lottery, we have every year.

I for one hope you get back to us with the pricing perspective from India.
post #146 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post


It seems like they have started 2 device categories; the S and the C. So the next iPhones would be the iPhone 6C and 6S.

 

They are working on a larger screen model, so I wonder what that might be called.  iPhone 6?

post #147 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I don't know if I fully agree with this. Thinking long term, how many new users would a cheaper 5C have brought into the apple ecosystem. How many more apps/itunes/accessories/applecare plans purchased. Think of the 5C as a gateway drug, once you get the people sucked in to iEverything, Android and Samsung have little of value to offer (at the cheaper end).  Next iteration, the new apple user finds they can get a decent price for their used 5C and are likely to consider upgrading to the 5S level model. 
Most cheap android phones we ever had were worth squat after 2 years.

I understand. The marketing concept is not one followed by the bulk of manufacturers because the quarterly performance numbers are demanded by most stockholders and most management lacks to confidence to think and act for longer term objectives.

Consider this: Android phones are priced to appeal to people with lesser money. Then the Android app developers have found that it's difficult to sell apps to those same cash poor customers, so they use ads to supplement their incomes. The best Android phones sell for $100 less on eBay compared to a similar iPhones... that is, as you pointed out, the Android is even working after a couple years. With low profit margins in the Android phones, there is less customer service and with more ads in the apps, less of a quality experience. The desire is, and sales have shown, to upgrade out of the Android smart phone and into the Apple iPhone market.

There is no way to easily do that from the bottom of the Android market, it will more likely come from users in the mid to upper Android experience. There will always be a low end market where people cannot afford anything better, or they cannot discern a better experience even if they experienced it. There are those kinds of people.

I guess where you and I may disagree is on what dollar point is too high or too low to demarcate Apple's idea of their market low-end to which they want to appeal.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #148 of 165
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Originally Posted by Jordon Eagan View Post

I think a lot of people are missing the picture here...Apple does not want customers in the US/EU to buy the 5C, they want you to buy the 5S. The 5c is aimed at China, India, Brazil and other emerging markets. My guess is that we will quickly see the details Apple has worked out with carriers like China Mobile to offer the 5c at very affordable prices in these markets. The 5c is a world phone specifically designed for Asia and other emerging markets...and it will sell very well!!

Finally, some sanity and reason. There've been others, I should add, like Macky and jfc1138.
Edited by Flaneur - 9/10/13 at 2:56pm
post #149 of 165
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

They are working on a larger screen model, so I wonder what that might be called.  iPhone 6?

 

iPhone 3S.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #150 of 165
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Originally Posted by drblank View Post

They are working on a larger screen model, so I wonder what that might be called.  iPhone 6?

I'm not sure we will ever see a larger iPhone screen... all analyst dreaming and predicting aside. Personally, I'd rather talk to a bluetooth earpiece then hold a slab of bread to the side of my face and walk around in public. Maybe Apple has a solution that is more like the iPad Mini one holds like it were a book or tablet while conversing through an earpiece.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #151 of 165
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Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I for one hope you get back to us with the pricing perspective from India.

I should get one idea from Vodafone guys in India, there can never keep a secret, once they get this information.lol
post #152 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post




Consider this: Android phones are priced ...
There will always be a low end market where people cannot afford anything better, or they cannot discern a better experience even if they experienced it. There are those kinds of ...

 

For example me. No problem with affording one here, but I simply don't need a 1000 Eur phone. I really don't need it because it's useless for some serious work and I'm still not a completely braindamaged fcuked up consumer. I need a simple phone to call and be called + some sms. That is all.  I work in a so called creative industry - a micro 10+ "creative" people platform.

"I invented the rectangle"  - Steve Jobs

"We Bomb you" - USA

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"I invented the rectangle"  - Steve Jobs

"We Bomb you" - USA

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post #153 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Apple wasn't turning to plastic to submarine the price, they are looking to use color to be their marketing tool for the next couple years or so and plastic is the way to do that best.

The problem with using colored plastic though is that other manufacturers use it and it doesn't come across as premium. I agree that color variety adds something new but they could have colored the metal like 3rd parties do:



Not purple there but the blue and red ones look great. There's a dark green they could use and orange:

http://www.anostyle.com/product/IP5
post #154 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

But the assumed drop in margins was priced in when the stock hit $400 ish. The stock only increased with the rumours of a cheaper plastic phone - which we assumed was the plastic one. Since apple haven't delivered a cheaper iPhone it may drop again. Of course they have a Chinese chip but that may not be enough.

However does anyone wonder about a company which innovates with plastic covers and new cases. The fingerprint sensor doesn't do much. 64 bit apps are overkill for a device with 128G memory. nothing is really happening. Maybe they are playing the long game, or they have no idea.

I share several of your concerns about the new iPhones. Is the 5c inexpensive enough to not lose or gain market share? Does the 5s make a big enough jump over the 5 to continue warranting its price.
I've made a couple snarky comments here because I wasn't blown away like previous product announcement.

It may be that Apple is throwing in the software now because they realize that the value is a little thin.
But cook probably has to Keep the profit margins up because of Wall Street. Cook is a big part of Apple's success over the last decade, but he's not Steve and probably doesn't have Steve's room for error. If sales don't take off like past years, then they may have to lower prices.

Unfortunately for Apple they are operating in a very competitive market where other phone models have something feature that is impressive. The camera on the Nokia 1020, Boom sound on the HTC ONE, choose your colors on the Moto X, large screen on the Samsung galaxy 4, pen input ( for some) on the Note. The iPhone is may no longer be the best phone in all aspects, but the best overall with a premium price.
post #155 of 165
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Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

I guess many people are feeling stupid now for trading in their iPhone 5.
Wait and see Apple shares going down in the next few months.

Well they should feel stupid for trading in a <1 year old phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

That decision showed one of Steve Jobs strengths. He admitted mistakes. If he hadnt done that the iPhone would be dead in the water. Cook seems to be a bean counter. He's obsessed with margins.

I'm sorry, who decided the iPhone should have 40% margins? Oh yeah, Jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I've given up. The iPhone is the new mac - a niche device. Apple could have 50% of the world market - as they do in the US where they are subsidised by up to $200 per device. But they have to do it now. Or last year.

Cook is a disaster.

Haha. Outside of Sammy and Apple, who else makes any money selling cheap crap. The money is in the premium market.
post #156 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


The problem with using colored plastic though is that other manufacturers use it and it doesn't come across as premium. I agree that color variety adds something new but they could have colored the metal like 3rd parties do:



Not purple there but the blue and red ones look great. There's a dark green they could use and orange:

http://www.anostyle.com/product/IP5

 

That was my first thought... the 5C doesn't come across as a premium phone and that Apple has become like everyone else.

 

It just seems to cheapen the brand.

 

Time will tell.

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post #157 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


The problem with using colored plastic though is that other manufacturers use it and it doesn't come across as premium. I agree that color variety adds something new but they could have colored the metal like 3rd parties do:
 

 

I don't think its meant to be premium, 5C is for the younger (youthful spirited) crowd. Its "as colorful as you are", so goes the a line in the 5C video presentation. Its more towards the fun and colorful iPod feel don't you think?

post #158 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post

I don't think its meant to be premium, 5C is for the younger (youthful spirited) crowd. Its "as colorful as you are", so goes the a line in the 5C video presentation. Its more towards the fun and colorful iPod feel don't you think?

I think it's in the wrong price bracket to not be a premium phone. If this was basically a $299 iPod Touch with phone capability, just add the phone parts and price the 5C at $399 and have the 5S at $550 or something like that, then it would be that fun entry model. The way it is now, you have a premium build iPhone 4S at the entry point (likely $450) and then colored plastic above it at $550 and the premium 5S above that at $650:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57602268-37/apples-16gb-iphone-5c-will-retail-for-$549-off-contract/

The 5C also competes with used models of the iPhone 5. If you can get deals from 3rd parties on warranty, an iPhone 5 is a better quality 5C as it has the same internals with a solid metal chassis.

If a used model looks better value (better quality for the same price) than a new model, there's something wrong with the new model. Perhaps some people would opt for a 5C over an iPhone 5 after seeing them side by side at the same price but I wouldn't.
post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think it's in the wrong price bracket to not be a premium phone. If this was basically a $299 iPod Touch with phone capability, just add the phone parts and price the 5C at $399 and have the 5S at $550 or something like that, then it would be that fun entry model. The way it is now, you have a premium build iPhone 4S at the entry point (likely $450) and then colored plastic above it at $550 and the premium 5S above that at $650:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57602268-37/apples-16gb-iphone-5c-will-retail-for-$549-off-contract/

The 5C also competes with used models of the iPhone 5. If you can get deals from 3rd parties on warranty, an iPhone 5 is a better quality 5C as it has the same internals with a solid metal chassis.

If a used model looks better value (better quality for the same price) than a new model, there's something wrong with the new model. Perhaps some people would opt for a 5C over an iPhone 5 after seeing them side by side at the same price but I wouldn't.

It's very simple. Aluminum is cold and hard, polycarbonate is warm and soft. Or look at it as mineral vs. organic. These differences are not best grasped with the mind, but unconsciously witth emotion and touch. The 5C is a better phone than the 5 for some because it is plastic.
Edited by Flaneur - 9/10/13 at 11:25pm
post #160 of 165


realllllllllly wish dey had made cuter cases =*(, but still <3 apple!

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