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Apple announces iPhone 5s: Touch ID fingerprint security, 64-bit A7 CPU, new gold option coming... - Page 5

post #161 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

If the phone has less than 4GB RAM (probably) the 64bit is largely useless, especially for the average consumer. A nice surprise though. Outpacing the ARMv8's to the market. 

 

The more RAM the OS is addressing, the more battery it is using up which is why they try to make everything as efficient as possible so it can run in smaller memory footprint. On the desktop 64 bit is required to address more than 4 GB of RAM, but that is not the only benefit. A 64-bit CPU can calculate individual tasks two times as fast as a 32-bit model. The larger throughput on the bus will help with things like the 120 fps video recording for example.

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post #162 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

iPhone event, not Mac event. The only real surprise was no short mention of new iPods.
You are right, I glossed right over that. Not even a mention of a Touch upgrade. Maybe those come with the iWatch debut.
post #163 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

And it does what again? Not to forget I tied in the 64 Bit OS that works directly with it's parent OS. What again did Wind Rivers do with that 64 bit embedded OS that ties in with say Linux? Windows? Solaris? etc?

 

Sorry. But I misunderstood what you meant. No need to be bloody hostile about it. It was a poorly constructed sentence. An embedded OS doesn't have to "tie in" with anything. IOS is not your traditional embedded OS anyhow if you want to be technical about it. Just because it's not a *desktop* OS doesn't make it embedded in the classical sense.

post #164 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

What have they 'innovated' with this phone?
I don't see any physical innovation at all.
Then you are blind.
Quote:
Faster chip, camera update, fingerprint security? Wouldn't call that 'innovation'.
Is a faster chip not innovation and physical, especially when it is a high performance 64 bit solution that is first to market? Is not stuffing a new camera in the iPhone not innovation especially when they have worked on ways to address adverse color temperature issues. Is not a finger print sensor physical?

Like I said you are either blind or simply unwilling to look at the new iPhone honestly.
Quote:
The innovation is in the software.
iOS 7 is the innovation... these phones are just vessels to make it sing.
Baloney, the hardware is as innovative as the OS.
Quote:
5s is a bit faster... woooo
I don't foresee people chucking their 5's over the Golden Gate Bridge for this hardware update.

And what sort of person would be stupid enough to do that? Smart Phones are hardly disposable.
post #165 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranceXplant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by netrox View Post

 
No, with 64-bit OS, it will be able to handle massive video files without having to split them. 
Perhaps, but why would anyone watch or edit "massive video files" on a telephone? The screen size makes video quality almost irrelevant.

Consider these:

http://lightiron.com/products/todailies

http://lightiron.com/products/live-play

This is from Michael Cioni's company -- Michael is a pioneer in end-to-end digital film-making (oxymoron intended).

And watch this:

http://player.vimeo.com/play_redirect?quality=sd&codecs=h264&clip_id=43125025&sig=1523ac954e3163fa190e898e6065459d&time=1378845367
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post #166 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Mmm Samesong stocks is down 2.48% today without announcing anything does it mean they go bankrupt?

 

 

That's their vacuum cleaner division selloff in response to Dyson-Gate.

post #167 of 273

I agree - was anyone expecting a new co-processor? We had all heard about health tracking and biometrics, but a dedicated processor?

post #168 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Hadn't really thought of it that way...

But yeah...

Add to that the fact that the 2 OSes share many common APIs, and some creative packaging (instead of fat binaries) -- you could run many iOS apps on the OSX desktop by installing only the code required for the underlying architecture...

The implementation of the touch UI in the iOS Simulator is pretty good -- and they could become a OSX system capability... In fact, some Mavericks apps already do this -- OSX Maps, for one!
its still ARM right?

If I understand your question -- Yes, iOS devices are still ARM.

But when you Xcode compile an iOS app you compile it to run on on an ARM iDevice or the iOS Simulator on Intel.

I suspect that there is a way that you could compile for both, include that in the app store, then download and install only the code specific to the target's underlying architecture (ARM or Intel) -- A single code-base and distribution supporting both architectures.
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post #169 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 
If the phone has less than 4GB RAM (probably) the 64bit is largely useless, especially for the average consumer. A nice surprise though. Outpacing the ARMv8's to the market. 

The more RAM the OS is addressing, the more battery it is using up which is why they try to make everything as efficient as possible so it can run in smaller memory footprint. On the desktop 64 bit is required to address more than 4 GB of RAM, but that is not the only benefit. A 64-bit CPU can calculate individual tasks two times as fast as a 32-bit model. The larger throughput on the bus will help with things like the 120 fps video recording for example.

Yeah, the 120 fps video is interesting and also could be a very big deal.Somebody mentioned the 5S could replace the GoPro at 60 fps.

If I remember correctly, I think it was the iOS 5 beta -- but, for several weeks, Apple included all the ProRes Codecs/API's in the iOS... Then they removed them.

I always wondered about this -- maybe the CPUs weren't powerful enough, or the use of a dedicated h.264 chip in the device obviated them...
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post #170 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post
 

 

You'll have to forgive him.  He only sees the world in 2 colours.  Apple lovers and Apple haters.   For us outside of the apple sphere of reality, those colours are black and white.

 

Oh, I'm an Apple Fanboy for sure, no doubt about that. What he missed is that I was not complaining. 

post #171 of 273
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post

You'll have to forgive him.  He only sees the world in 2 colours.  Apple lovers and Apple haters.   For us outside of the apple sphere of reality, those colours are black and white.

 

Yeah, thanks, that isn't what I was talking about, which is obvious if you would actually read the string of replies. :no:

 
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post
Oh, I'm an Apple Fanboy for sure, no doubt about that. What he missed is that I was not complaining. 

 

I know you weren't! :p

post #172 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 
If the phone has less than 4GB RAM (probably) the 64bit is largely useless, especially for the average consumer. A nice surprise though. Outpacing the ARMv8's to the market. 

The more RAM the OS is addressing, the more battery it is using up which is why they try to make everything as efficient as possible so it can run in smaller memory footprint. On the desktop 64 bit is required to address more than 4 GB of RAM, but that is not the only benefit. A 64-bit CPU can calculate individual tasks two times as fast as a 32-bit model. The larger throughput on the bus will help with things like the 120 fps video recording for example.

That's a very good point! And they already upped the bus speed to 250MHz with the 4s. I wonder what this model will be.
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post #173 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Didn't one of the feeds have something about apps being reworked for 64 bit? If they haven't been they will be soon. By the way this was Apple supplied apps.

 

Yes, Phil mentioned this, although I don't know what "reworked" actually means. I would guess we'll find out more once iOS 7 is released as well as the newer iWork apps.

post #174 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I knew it wouldn't take long. Samsung and Google must pay well.

Let's see:
- Twice the CPU performance
- Twice the graphics performance
- First 64 bit phone
- Much better camera
- Fingerprint security
- New motion coprocessor
- Greater network coverage
- Same price as predecessor

And none of that counts for anything?

The Android and Samsung shills really get tiresome.

The really sad thing is how quickly Wall Street goes along. The stock was down about 0.7 before the announcement and is down about 1.7 now. Just what the heck did they expect?

Different form factor?

I'm OK with 5s. It is pretty much what I expected (except for 64-bit architecture, which I didn't expect). Good update and according to Apple's already familiar roadmap.
post #175 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdinkins View Post

I know Apple doesn't move to my schedule but there were some glaring things missing from this launch. Where is the iPad mini retina? Where is the China Mobile deal? Where is the iPad 5? What gives?

 

iPads coming later this year in separate announcement/event.

 

Don't know about China Mobile, but there were rumors of a later launch for them.

post #176 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Yeah, the 120 fps video is interesting and also could be a very big deal.Somebody mentioned the 5S could replace the GoPro at 60 fps.

If I remember correctly, I think it was the iOS 5 beta -- but, for several weeks, Apple included all the ProRes Codecs/API's in the iOS... Then they removed them.

I always wondered about this -- maybe the CPUs weren't powerful enough, or the use of a dedicated h.264 chip in the device obviated them...

 

H.264 being offloaded to the PowerVR 6 using OpenCL is most certainly what Apple will do to process H.264 codec needs.

post #177 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliofigueroa View Post

As much as I love Apple, I just feel let down by this product release. Maybe it was okay back when Apple did hardly anything for the iPhone 5, but another year of this has disconnected me from the Apple reality distortion field. I am seriously considering getting something else like the Galaxy Note 3 or Droid Maxx. They're on par with the pricing of the cheapest iPhone. I just seriously wish Steve Jobs was running the company. He'd have that "One More Thing..."

 

And there we go — a fake European name, one post to his credit and he is "leaving the Apple distortion field".  Right.

 

I'm sure Apple does not pay anyone to go onto Android web sites and troll them with Apple boosterism. But Samsung will pay Human bots like this to come here and spill  transparent nonsense all over the forum. It's a measure of how much the crappy Asian companies fear those that deal straight. Apple makes them look bad every moment of the day, with everything they do. If only the idiots of Wall Street hadn't bought into the idea that profit at any cost is a good thing, America and other Western countries might still have a solid manufacturing base. As it is there is nothing left but an "ideas base" that Asian companies are trying very hard to erode — by stealing everything they can.

 

This whole thing should be a huge wake-up call to Western counties, and every company that wants to be successful in the long term.

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post #178 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post
 

 

 

Well, the 11n is ~40x faster than 11b, too. ;) 

 

no 802.11ac was a surprise.

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post #179 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post
 

 

You didn't list a single 'innovation'.

A faster chip is not 'innovation' - it's progress.

"Much better camera" is not innovation - not when competitors have better ones using the same method of programming.

Fingerprint Security - Apple didn't innovate this, they implemented it.

Same price as predecessor - innovation? lol

 

Just why are you so obsessed with spelling out that Apple isn't innovating?  By your own definitions no other smart phone companies are innovating either, they're only 'progressing', so why not mention some other brands whilst you're at it?  Or do you maybe count 'near-field communication' as a real big innovation?  That's something iPhone 5S isn't doing yet.  Well that sure as shit isn't, it's just some new thing some particular phone companies have decided to slap on.

 

For me, the innovation from Apple has to be in implementation and design and practical use of the technologies that very obviously already exist for any smart phone company to 'progress'.... For me, Apple has demonstrated that today in several cases.

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post #180 of 273

I was thinking the same thing on the ATV.  What could an A7 processor do to that little device?  Gaming would be brought up to par with PS3 and Xbox360 at the least.  4K TV would be achievable.....  Just need to insure they have enough A7's for the phone, and it should find it's way into ATV.  

 

Also, nobody talks about the two color temps for the LED flashes and how it will determine the right balance when using the flash.  Everyone just thought it was two bulbs to increase brightness, instead they played with the aperture, increased the CMOS and added some software/hardware tricks to do that.  That's cool.

 

That M7 Processor is going to be another big deal moving forward.  Imagine not having to wake up the A7 just to keep up with your movements.  Big battery saver.

post #181 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

 

no 802.11ac was a surprise.

 

Yeah, that really is, the macbook air seems to be the only device apple has that can use the airport extremes ac speed.

the 5s looks pretty kickass, I'm in Australia, people buy phones outright quite a bit here, the 64GB iPhone 5 was $899, here is my issue, the replacement iPhone 5s 64GB is $ 1,129.00, thats a pretty decent price jump, I guess i'll wait for the 6.

post #182 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

 

no 802.11ac was a surprise.

 

 

With the new Airports, I was expecting this as well. 

post #183 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjthomps View Post

 

Also, nobody talks about the two color temps for the LED flashes and how it will determine the right balance when using the flash.  Everyone just thought it was two bulbs to increase brightness, instead they played with the aperture, increased the CMOS and added some software/hardware tricks to do that.  That's cool.

 

 

We talked about this extensively on AI. I know I called out the amber light for skin tones, and I believe others did as well. Increasing the size and quality of the pixel is far greater than adding more, so I am excited to get this in my hands on the 20th!!! 

post #184 of 273

64-bit ARM is not really necessary.

On a device with so little RAM, it's not like 64-addressing will be used anytime soon.

On a device that largely needs to avoid doing lots of processing, having a 64 bit processor means more wattage is needed to do the same basic tasks. Apple should have worked on specializing power-hungry tasks rather than upgrade to 64 bits.

post #185 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfellow View Post

On a device with so little RAM, it's not like 64-addressing will be used anytime soon.
On a device that largely needs to avoid doing lots of processing, having a 64 bit processor means more wattage is needed to do the same basic tasks. Apple should have worked on specializing power-hungry tasks rather than upgrade to 64 bits.

1080p on a cell phone isn't necessary either but I bet you got off on it when Android phones starting coming out with it.

Oh and the M7 chip solves some of this power hungry "motion" tasks.
post #186 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfellow View Post
 

On a device with so little RAM, it's not like 64-addressing will be used anytime soon.

On a device that largely needs to avoid doing lots of processing, having a 64 bit processor means more wattage is needed to do the same basic tasks. Apple should have worked on specializing power-hungry tasks rather than upgrade to 64 bits.

 

Running OpenCL kernels in 64 bit is one of the new [OpenCL particularly being added to iOS] bits to improving performance on the 5C/5S/iPad upcoming series and moving forward.

 

Note the extensions options here: http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/sdk/1.0/docs/man/xhtml/EXTENSION.html

 

Lots of work going into LLVM/Clang to make OpenCL 1.2 bumper to bumper that will run on all Apple products that can leverage OpenCL.

post #187 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

Running OpenCL kernels in 64 bit is one of the new [OpenCL particularly being added to iOS] bits to improving performance on the 5C/5S/iPad upcoming series and moving forward.

 

Note the extensions options here: http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/sdk/1.0/docs/man/xhtml/EXTENSION.html

 

Lots of work going into LLVM/Clang to make OpenCL 1.2 bumper to bumper that will run on all Apple products that can leverage OpenCL.


How much RAM is coming with these new 5s's?   I didn't catch the number from the Keynote and their site doesn't say.

post #188 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post


How much RAM is coming with these new 5s's?   I didn't catch the number from the Keynote and their site doesn't say.

Up to 64gb.

There is one omission I find odd considering the new and faster 64-bit architecture: the 5S doesn't support the faster 802.11ac wifi standard if I'm correct. It appears to be commonly supported in other recent devices.
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/11/13 at 4:00am
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post #189 of 273
Heard Apple underclocked the new A7 64 bit CPU to save on the battery life! Will wait till the iPhone 6 - where they will restore the clock speed! Not crazy about the fingerprint security either!
post #190 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post
 

So, no preorders for iPhone 5S? Only 5C?

 

Apple wants to generate lines at the Apple Store; so the new media will report on Apple fanboys waiting 3 days before September 20th camping out!  It free PR for three days straight.  Advertising website saying that that saves Apple around $150 million in ads in the U.S. since it is aired in all three time spots - morning, 6p.m. and 10 p.m. news spots and the Evening national news too.  Also, major newspaper will cover the opening day for the new iPhones too!

post #191 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Up to 64gb.

There is one omission I find odd considering the new and faster 64-bit architecture: the 5S doesn't support the faster 802.11ac wifi standard if I'm correct. It appears to be commonly supported in other recent devices.

 

Apple does expect the 802.11 ac to be coming soon like 2 years from now!  The 802.11 ac; has royalties attached and Apple probably will not do this until the routers become common place.

post #192 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post


How much RAM is coming with these new 5s's?   I didn't catch the number from the Keynote and their site doesn't say.

Up to 64gb.

He's asking for RAM, not NAND.

5C gets 1GB, 5S is still unknown, according to Wiki, for whatever that's worth (though I do find it a good starting point to search, unlike Google or Bing)
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post #193 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

He's asking for RAM, not NAND.

Ooops. Thanks Phil! I don't think Apple typically announces that do they. Not saying they never do.

EDIT: For those that care about such things here's a side-by-side spec comparison of the new 5S, 5C and prev. gen 5.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-iPhone-5S-vs-iPhone-5C-vs-iPhone-5-specs-comparison-spot-the-differences_id47283
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/11/13 at 6:46am
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post #194 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Up to 64gb.

There is one omission I find odd considering the new and faster 64-bit architecture: the 5S doesn't support the faster 802.11ac wifi standard if I'm correct. It appears to be commonly supported in other recent devices.

That's not the amount of RAM, that's the amount of storage.

post #195 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

That's not the amount of RAM, that's the amount of storage.

I guess you read the two posts just before yours. 1hmm.gif
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post #196 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrox View Post

No, with 64-bit OS, it will be able to handle massive video files without having to split them. 
This has nothing to do with the CPU. It's a file system restriction.
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post #197 of 273
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post
Heard Apple underclocked the new A7 64 bit CPU to save on the battery life! Will wait till the iPhone 6 - where they will restore the clock speed!

 

Every single iPhone has been underclocked. They will not be "restoring" anything in the 8th iPhone, because it will get its own, new processor which itself will be underclocked. Be quiet.

 
  Not crazy about the fingerprint security either!

 

Don't use it. HOLY COW, WHAT A CONCEPT.

post #198 of 273

I'm chomping at the bit to upgrade my iPhone 4 to the 5s. 

 

Whether 64-bit is necessary or not.   EVERYTHING will be an upgrade for me and I always like to plan for the future. 

Bummer that it doesn't have 11AC as I want to upgrade my network to 11AC devices only within the next 18 months. 

 

Touch ID has awesome capability and the camera is going to be a very welcome upgrade. 

 

If someone doesn't care ..they care choose another product but the 5s is a welcome upgrade to this household. 

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post #199 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Every single iPhone has been underclocked. They will not be "restoring" anything in the 8th iPhone, because it will get its own, new processor which itself will be underclocked. Be quiet.

 

Don't use it. HOLY COW, WHAT A CONCEPT.

 

Who knows what the proper clock speed is for the Apple A7 chips, they are the ones that designed it and they clock the chips at what works best from two perspectives.  One is what are the best yields in terms of speed and what works best from a heat, power, speed perspective.  Remember, when the chips roll off the assembly line, they get tested and thrown into different speed lots.  They more chips that get rated at slower speeds.  Plus, a slower speed chip won't require as much power, generate as much heat and will be more reliable.

post #200 of 273
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Who knows what the proper clock speed is for the Apple A7 chips, they are the ones that designed it and they clock the chips at what works best from two perspectives.  One is what are the best yields in terms of speed and what works best from a heat, power, speed perspective.  Remember, when the chips roll off the assembly line, they get tested and thrown into different speed lots.  They more chips that get rated at slower speeds.  Plus, a slower speed chip won't require as much power, generate as much heat and will be more reliable.

 

Exactly. And Apple only ONCE upped the clock of a chip. The first-gen iPhone used a 600MHz chip downclocked to 412MHz. The first-gen iPod touch used the same chip, clocked at 400MHz. In… hoo… 1.1.3? I think it was, the clock was upped to 412 to match the iPhone. Other than that: never.

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