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First look: Apple's new iPhone 5s and 5c - Page 5

post #161 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

You're talking about contract prices, and locked phones.

 

Does the average consumer realize how much that two year contract will be costing them in total? 

 

Does it make a difference if somebody spends let's say $1800 for lowest model or $1900 for premium model over two years? I don't think that it's accurate to say that somebody is spending double when getting a 5s. Unlocked prices are what should be compared, and there's very little difference between $550 and $650.

 

I'm talking about contract prices because that's what I think most people see, and they never look at the total contract price and compare those figures, they look at what they have to pay up front and then each month (the average consumer), it's why all those "no money down no payments for 6 months" deals are so popular. Two new iPhone models, one is double the price (up front) of the other, both do the same thing (in the mind of the average consumer), one comes in fun colours and is a bit more durable, one can save you a $100 today, I think quite a few are going to opt for the 5c using exactly that thought process.

post #162 of 226

I like to see how many people fall for the 5C!

 

Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

post #163 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Apple isn't ever going to make uber-cheap phones for the developing world, and everyone knows that, or should. it could never compete with those local OEM's in their markets' distribution channels, it would never make the crummy flimsy hardware they often do, and it would never tolerate the very exploitative labor practices that many of them practice routinely either.
as to "what market Apple was trying to address" with the 5c, think ahead. this attractive new c model will truly become Apple's "cheap phone" in 2014 when it in turn replaces the 4S at the $0 + contract price point, or $450 prepaid. so from then on, Apple will always have the distinctive low-end product line that all the pundits say they should.
why wait a year? because the 5c would cannibalize too many 5s sales at that price point this year, really hurting combined profit margins. but next year's iPhone 6 will presumably have further improvements that will push it two years ahead of the 5c technically and protect it from that effect better.
would Apple plan market strategies a year ahead like that? yes, of course it does ...
btw, if Apple really does come out with a larger screen phone next year too as rumored, i bet it's based on the 5c, not the 5s,  for the same reasons - price segmentation and profit margins. next Spring would make sense, just to have something new in between major product cycles  ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

This makes a lot of sense. They're thinking a year (or more) ahead.

Also, it turns out that the plastic back is more expensive to make than I, for one, thought, with that inner steel reinforcement/antenna embedded in it. I totally missed that detail when someone, I'll look it up later, was talking about the reinforcement that I thought was maybe for EMI and heat. Anyway, it looks like they're spending quite a bit to get this plastic and metal "architecture" set up for a long run, and they'll get it paid for with this first version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Very good post, I think you nailed Apples thinking. Although I suspect the larger screen will also be on the flagship model next year(possible before 5c for reasons you mention above).

Just me, but I for one would like all this new tech in a 3.5 inch screen phone. I have too many use scenarios where smaller is better(but definitely understand the rationale for larger screens, IMO Apple is leaving some cash on the table not having a 4.9 inch model and a bit more customizable home screen/keyboard features... Intuition it's coming though).

Wow! 2 people out 5 pages worth of posts "get it".

I must admit, I was a bit worried yesterday when I followed the Live blog and saw the 5C's price. As always though, it's best to sleep on it, read some comments and blog posts, bad and good... and then try to come up with an answer to the conundrum:

a) who, what and why is the 5C for;
and
b) why is the price not in line with expectations of being "an inexpensive iPhone" for the masses.

I think both can be answered together: Apple is differentiating their iPhone line to both maintain margins AND offer pricing flexibility, all while maintaining a highly sought after premium "flagship" phone at full price.

Basically, the 5S will not receive any markdowns of any kind for the life of the phone or until the 6 comes along to replace it. No bargains, no rebates, no subsidy breaks.

The 5C on the other hand, with a very possible BOM of ~$250, gives Apple a "marketing vehicle" and price-flexible offering. Meaning they can tailor their pricing to the providers, plus make Special Offers, rebates, what have you... AND still quite easily maintain their internal goal of 40% profit margins.

So why didn't they price the phone cheaper from the start? WHY would or should they? If the market wants to pay top price for they latest, greatest and coolest... standing in line to do so... let them! When demand slows down... BOOM.... $100 up to $300 rebates and promotions.... and Apple still pulling in their margins.

Fact is: you NEVER want to aggressively market your flagship products with rebates. That's why you create a second tier: get 'em in the shop, expose them to a cost-conscience alternative... all the while allowing them to drool over the "I wish I could have that top model over there"... but still get them out the door with the "beginners experience".

It's worked wonders with all of the other Apple products over the last 15 years and I don't expect it to work any less with this new line up of iPhones.

* This has 100% Classic Phil Schiller written all over it.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #164 of 226
I personally think the biggest part of the entire announcement was going 64-bit.

This is going to be the BIG differentiator going forward, possibly for the next 10 years and will probably NOT be coming to any Android device soon.

This is exactly how Apple is planning to initiate the "cross pollination" of iOS and OSX. Very clever approach, if not only for getting iOS developers in the thousands on-board, ready and up to speed developing for the Mac and OSX as well. Just wait and see when the cross platform games and apps start making it to OSX and to AppleTV.

I really have to laugh at how downright brilliant, insidious, and downright sneaky this approach is... as opposed too how Microsoft has decided to do this.

Apple Secret Sauce I call it. Playing only those cards that you need to, and letting the rest take care of itself by letting the short-sighted totally bluster and bluff themselves into a corner and left guessing your next move.*

Who said SJ is dead?! His ideas, teachings and philosophies he picked up over a life-time of being what other people would consider an "RDF Whacko" most surely, live on! 1smoking.gif

* Indian philosophy; Power Poker; Asian War Strategy; Chess... Steve Jobs!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #165 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


Even so,

Most of us knew the iPhone 5C would NEVER be cheap enough for impoverished people in BRIC countries.

At a minimum we expected midrange $300-500 which it's hard to say if the 5C even addresses that market globally.

I agree with you that the 5C is a hard sell for prepaid markets. If it were $450 it'd be a stretch for prepaid but still within the $300-500 midrange, but at $550 that puts it up with the likes of flagship Android and Windows phones.

I don't really know what market Apple was trying to address with this.

I think it'll do well regardless because Apple's ad campaign for it seems solid especially for postpaid markets, but there's a gaping hole in prepaid globally.

 

Its ludicrous to think a pre-paid entry level phone would go for the prices Apple are charging for their cheaper models. Far far more than an iPad mini. 

 

The 5c is priced the same in both France and Germany: the 16GB model is will cost €599 without contract, while the 32GB is priced at €699. I am assuming that is the euro price. At that price it is not an off contract phone, nor anything even close. Nor is it a christmas present ( which is after all a huge market). Cook is a bean counter. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post
 

 

i'll just use this particular post to address all the knee-jerk boo-birds posting here and around the web today saying more or less the same things:

 

you guys really don't get it.

 

the combination of the freshly re-desinged and definitely improved iOS 7 with these two new models - one with great casual style and the other packed with useful technical wizardry - is going to blow away the consumer market. because together they make the iPhone "feel" reinvented. you can all say there is no "wow" there, but actually i see plenty of "wow" for regular folks. iOS 7 may already be old news to the technocrati, but none of the general public have seen it in action yet and everyone will find some of its new features really satisfying to use. add the distinctive two new hardware models to that and you have a huge hit coming up.

 

no doubt the superficial whining about no bigger screen or no NFC or no ... whatever will continue to be posted far and wide by the boo birds. that's what gets you guys off. well, they'll wind up in the same whiners hall of fame as no flash, no removable battery, no physical keyboard ...

 

there will be long lines outside Apple stores around the world yet once again on launch day. 

 

There were lines when Microsoft released the surface, that's meaningless. The questions isn't the 5S - that upgrade was fine (although why does the biggest tech company in the world not skip a design release? Why not introduce the 6 this year?) and nor is the problem the 5C. Thats an ok phone, but not for the price. It will sell, idiots on here will say it sells, but the question is not whether it will sell but how much of the market it can claw back. None I imagine. 

 

What is with the defend Apple at all costs nonsense you get here. I am on sports forums where fans - fanatics  who spend most of their disposable income on following their team which they, their fathers before them etc. have done for generations - and if the picked team is a disaster the manager gets a roasting. Here, no criticism of Apple or Cook is countenanced by certain Apple fans. Effectively the iPhone line out is Apple's team for the year, and its not a good selection at the price.

 

Makes no sense. There are no android trolls here, my android loving friends are just confused at the price Apple expects to sell a plastic phone at in Europe. They, however, for the most part don't really care. Android has won. Apple is just going for a niche rich product. 

 

Thats fine until developer interest wanes, apps disappear and the platform disintegrates. We've seen this story before. 

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post #166 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I personally think the biggest part of the entire announcement was going 64-bit.

This is going to be the BIG differentiator going forward, possibly for the next 10 years and will probably NOT be coming to any Android device soon.

This is exactly how Apple is planning to initiate the "cross pollination" of iOS and OSX. Very clever approach, if not only for getting iOS developers in the thousands on-board, ready and up to speed developing for the Mac and OSX as well. Just wait and see when the cross platform games and apps start making it to OSX and to AppleTV.

I really have to laugh at how downright brilliant, insidious, and downright sneaky this approach is... as opposed too how Microsoft has decided to do this.

Apple Secret Sauce I call it. Playing only those cards that you need to, and letting the rest take care of itself by letting the short-sighted totally bluster and bluff themselves into a corner and left guessing your next move.*

Who said SJ is dead?! His ideas, teachings and philosophies he picked up over a life-time of being what other people would consider an "RDF Whacko" most surely, live on! 1smoking.gif

* Indian philosophy; Power Poker; Asian War Strategy; Chess... Steve Jobs!

 

Give over. 64 bit iOS development is the same in 99.9% of cases as 32 bit development, unless the developer has done something weird. It doesnt help developers transition to OS X, to do that APple would merge the API. Its mostly the same anyway. However I don't see that ever happening. 

 

And 64 bits is meaningless in a phone. It frankly is pretty meaningless in home machines, only when RAM is greater than 4G and applications aren't running in compatibility mode will it matter. And that will be never for phones, probably. 


Edited by asdasd - 9/11/13 at 5:15am
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post #167 of 226
We don't know what they will charge for the 5C in other markets. The cheaper case may give them more margin room to play with.

As for the 5S, this is a great "S" upgrade. The fingerprint sensor is a major feature and addresses my biggest annoyance about using smartphones. It will be pretty difficult for others to match, at least to do it this seamlessly and reliably. The camera and its software are also compelling. Oh, and going 64-bit in production before ARM has even released designs is no small task, and neither is doubling performance in one year. That and all the iOS7 features.

I really don't understand the haters. This is monumental amount of work for one year.
post #168 of 226
"Inside the optional case is a microfiber cloth lining to protect the shiny finish from scratches"

> Yes, and it also prevents a person from actually *seeing* the shiny finish. Why would Apple spend so much effort making cases that cover their stunningly beautiful phones?
"Look how beautiful our phones are...and here's how you can cover the beauty."

I would LOVE to read an article about the gestation of those honeycomb iPhone cases. What were the other possible design options? Though they are of high quality construction, I'm surprised about the seeming lack of pizzaz in the design. In reference to other comments, I too think they should have covered the text, perhaps with an Apple logo?

Maybe the perception is different when holding them?
post #169 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reviloa View Post

So.. I'm not the only one that noticed how badly the iphone C lettering is covered by the iphone case.
The lettering could have been repositioned... and 6 holes would be rounded rectangle.
We all thought Apple cared about theses little details. 
I guess it's still a win for Apple.. As I will be upgrading to the iphone S partly because of this reason!!
Re: my post http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159466/first-look-apples-new-iphone-5s-and-5c#post_2393727 in this forum.
post #170 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

Wait what? The 5c is $733 in China? Why would they charge almost $200 more for it in China than in the US?

Something is wrong here for sure. 
there are deals that had to be made to even get the iPhone or any other apple products for sale in china. From my experiences over there, it seems the Gov'nt wants to keep Chinese money in the country. So they hike up prices there to keep some of that profit and money in the country.
post #171 of 226
Quote:
 a) who, what and why is the 5C for;
and
b) why is the price not in line with expectations of being "an inexpensive iPhone" for the masses.

 

Yep, exactly. The new whyPhone is released, as in why bother?

post #172 of 226

I've read so many trolls mocking the lack of "innovation" evident in yesterday's announcement that I just had to speak up.  If you think innovation is the goal and not a means, you don't get it.  Apple is not interested in making the most innovative products; its goals is to make products that people connect with and appreciate for their functionality--that give people joy to own and use.  It takes innovation to deliver on that, but if they can do it "just" by focusing on fit and finish and leaving out distractions and using existing tech, they'd gladly call that a win.  Asking "what's so innovative about adding a fingerprint reader?" is the wrong question.  The relevant question is whether it will make the iPhone experience better.  I would argue that Apple almost never does something to "be innovative."  And rightly so.

post #173 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm View Post

The real problem here is that the name makes it look as if it should cost five cents 1wink.gif .

With carrier subsidy, it starts at $99. The real problem is that Apple is not addressing the prepaid market with an affordable option, which is what developing countries need. In South Africa, something like 97% of the population has a cell phone, and Nigeria is a huge market. Yet most of these people do not have the steady income to get a phone on a contract. Eventually an increasing fraction will, but they won’t have an Apple product in the meantime. That creates a window for other less successful smart phone vendors like Nokia-Microsoft.

Maybe that’s not a bad thing because competition is good. If you live in a developed country and can afford a contract, you have a wide range of options, and Apple turning into another Microsoft, owning the entire market, is not a good thing. I didn’t like it when Apple was small enough that imminent failure was always an option; I’m not sure I like a world-dominating Apple either.

Just my 5¢.

I really like the name. It has so many possibilities.

Apple doesn't go after the low end market. There isnt any money there and they can't make a cheap iPhone that isn't crap.
post #174 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Its ludicrous to think a pre-paid entry level phone would go for the prices Apple are charging for their cheaper models. Far far more than an iPad mini. 

The 5c is priced the same in both France and Germany: the 16GB model is will cost €599 without contract, while the 32GB is priced at €699. I am assuming that is the euro price. At that price it is not an off contract phone, nor anything even close. Nor is it a christmas present ( which is after all a huge market). Cook is a bean counter. 


There were lines when Microsoft released the surface, that's meaningless. The questions isn't the 5S - that upgrade was fine (although why does the biggest tech company in the world not skip a design release? Why not introduce the 6 this year?) and nor is the problem the 5C. Thats an ok phone, but not for the price. It will sell, idiots on here will say it sells, but the question is not whether it will sell but how much of the market it can claw back. None I imagine. 

What is with the defend Apple at all costs nonsense you get here. I am on sports forums where fans - fanatics  who spend most of their disposable income on following their team which they, their fathers before them etc. have done for generations - and if the picked team is a disaster the manager gets a roasting. Here, no criticism of Apple or Cook is countenanced by certain Apple fans. Effectively the iPhone line out is Apple's team for the year, and its not a good selection at the price.

Makes no sense. There are no android trolls here, my android loving friends are just confused at the price Apple expects to sell a plastic phone at in Europe. They, however, for the most part don't really care. Android has won. Apple is just going for a niche rich product. 

Thats fine until developer interest wanes, apps disappear and the platform disintegrates. We've seen this story before. 

Keep trolling. Only Sammy and Apple are making money and not because of the cheapie phones.

Devs are certain to develop for iOS because the apps can run on iPads and iPod touches as well as iPhones. In addition iOS users pay for apps. iOS also has a few screen sizes to worry about hence making it easier to develop for.
post #175 of 226
Pricing is all wrong... 99$ on a 2 year contract is premium, not low end... and then they cancelled the iPhone 5 and kept the 4S? w. t. f.
post #176 of 226

Yes, looking at the vast majority of comments on various Media outlets here in the UK, at the level of prices Apple want for the 5c, there is no real point in them - if they were made to aggressively attract those in the more price-sensitive market. It seems there's a LOT of anti-Apple sentiment at the moment. Perhaps if the 5c also had the upgraded camera and flash that would have added a solid compelling reason to upgrade.  
Should be an interesting few months!

post #177 of 226
Everytime I see those 5C covers I cringe.
 
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post #178 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

I like to see how many people fall for the 5C!

Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

Exactly- anybody who will update from the 4S will get a 5S.
What is the point of this phone- for tweens? Those on a fixed income?
 
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post #179 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

What is the point of this phone?

It's for the colorful!

post #180 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post

Engadget had video demonstrating fingerprint sensor unlock. It did looked fast and took less time then you enter passcode. But video showed that it falsed to siri couple of times as well. Guessing it will be corrected by the time it launches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denkigrve View Post

You're not supposed to press on the button. So my guess is they were pressing the button. You just rest your finger on it. Someone in the anandtech video covered that while explaining how the feature works. You wake the phone, and then rest your finger on the home button. Then, voila. It's called Touch ID not Press ID. :P

http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

Either of you listen to MacBreak Weekly last night? I think it was Andy Inanko who said that his first few tries failed because he is used to pressing the home button. Once he went a few rounds, he began to change his muscle memory, and it worked well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

Don't understand some of the comments and complaints. This is the iPhone5S (5.5) a mid-cycle phone same as other "S" models. The S models have always been mid-life upgrades with a new this and slightly improved that, but the same design in general. They don't update the design & feel of the iPhone until a new number update. The 4 was a lot different than the 3, the 5 was very different from the 4, and I'm sure the 6 will be a new design from the 5. If you want a new design, wait 12 months. If you're still on a 4/4S then this is a great upgrade to me. I like the gold color phone, not sure I'd buy it, but I like it. Thankfully, I got the 5, so I'm on pace for the 6 next year.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't get the sourness.

I am with you. My wife got the 4S last year and I the 5. We will be due next year. iPhone 6 (32/64/128 GB configs with a 4.5-4.7" screen) for me and the iPhone 5CS in blue for her (assuming same/similar colors, and the 5S internals go to a plastic/colorful back)
post #181 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

It's for the colorful!



Got it.

 
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post #182 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Oi View Post
 

What I'm trying to say is that it's kinda funny how Apple implements their own version of "burst mode" after Samsung.

 

What I'm trying to say is that it's kinda funny how Samsung implements their own touchscreen phone after Apple.

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post #183 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post
 

 

 

Many people will actually prefer the colorful look and feel of the 5C and will choose it because they don't need the extra features of the 5S.

Think teenagers.

 

You obviously don't have any teenagers in your household and perhaps you completely missed the keynote yesterday. The 2 main features of the 5S announcement yesterday were totally directed at the teenage market. Much faster gaming performance and better camera with slo-mo and burst shooting. My kids main phone usage is uploading images/videos to social media sites and gaming. 

 

I showed my daughter the photos of the new 5C with case yesterday and she went "eeugh!"

 

Any parent worth their salt knows how much these phones really cost on-contract and it's more like $1300 over 2 years. 

post #184 of 226
Dear fan-droids.
Only cheap thing in here is your shameless jealousy. Hope you have enough money one day to have an iPhone. Until there, wish u a pleasant sex with your awkward devices.

Best regards 1wink.gif
post #185 of 226
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yeah, well first you need two nickels to rub together. 

 

Yeah, you'd think these people who apparently can't even afford food would be less concerned about getting the best smartphone in the world for free.

 

Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

 

Yep! Just like all those suckers who bought the iPhone 3G when they could have gotten the iPhone 3GS for… Or the iPhone 3GS when they could have gotten the iPhone 4 for… Or the iPhone 4 when they could have gotten the iPhone 4S for… Or the iPhone 4S when they could have gotten the iPhone 5 for… 

 

Or maybe you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
Pricing is all wrong... 99$ on a 2 year contract is premium, not low end... and then they cancelled the iPhone 5 and kept the 4S? w. t. f.

 

Which you know, because you, personally, are the entire market for this device. Think about what Apple has created here. Fine, I'll do it for you.

 

Let's pretend you don't know anything… about today's announcements. Therefore, your assumption as to Apple's phone lineup after September 10 is thus:

 

iPhone 5S: $199, black and white

iPhone 5: $99, black and white

iPhone 4S: $0, black and white

 

Sounds right, yeah? Do I need to explain how I got those numbers before we move on? Please tell me I don't. Do I need to explain why you thought this would be the lineup? A hint to the answer is this: analysts are worthless pieces of trash who know absolutely nothing and should never be listened to. Right, now, Apple does their thing yesterday. They shake it up a bit. Now, this is the lineup.

 

iPhone 5S: $199, black, white, and champagne

iPhone 5C: $99, white, blue, green, yellow, pink

iPhone 4S: $0, black and white

 

Huh. Look at that. Let's underline the similarities now to see how far Apple has deviated from what you thought before. Were those underlines confusing you until now? Here's the answer.

 

Looks like… a lot of similarities. In fact, where it deviates at all, there are only more options, not less. Now, I'm not going to pull up sales charts of past middle iPhones. You can do that yourself. But I figure, and this is just a guess on my part, that since the middle iPhone has historically been THE SECOND BEST SELLING PHONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD for most of its product run, that this new middle iPhone which has ONLY MORE OPTIONS TO OFFER THE CONSUMER AND BETTER HARDWARE SPECS THAN THE IPHONE 5 ITSELF HAD will sell. Pretty well. 

 

Originally Posted by ergnglcn View Post
Dear fan-droids.
Only cheap thing in here is your shameless jealousy. Hope you have enough money one day to have an iPhone. Until there, wish u a pleasant sex with your awkward devices.


You. I like you.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #186 of 226

I haven't seen this many trolls in one place for a while.  Apple's new iPhones must be very threatening to these guys.

 

However, the nice hardware is really only a fraction of the experience.  Apple takes responsibility for, and delivers, a full experience to its users.  In this context, the device is merely a vessel that facilitates the interaction.  Yes, it can be elegantly designed and have new features, but the OS will ultimately dictate the user's satisfaction with the platform.

 

For all of the talk about look and incremental improvements of the new iPhones, the media (and the very sad people who troll forums) seem to have overlooked the degree to which iOS7 is advancing the quality of the Apple experience.  While Samsung may be able to produce silicone, it will never be able to control the full experience of delivered by its Android devices.  Ultimately, the pace of hardware-level change will slow and software will remain the key differentiator in the way people interact with their phone.

 

No wonder the trolls feel threatened.

post #187 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


Very good post, I think you nailed Apples thinking. Although I suspect the larger screen will also be on the flagship model next year(possible before 5c for reasons you mention above).

Just me, but I for one would like all this new tech in a 3.5 inch screen phone. I have too many use scenarios where smaller is better(but definitely understand the rationale for larger screens, IMO Apple is leaving some cash on the table not having a 4.9 inch model and a bit more customizable home screen/keyboard features... Intuition it's coming though).

Apple hasn't yet picked the screen size for their larger screen model, and I'm sure they are evaluating the IGZO technology due to being able to get much higher resolution.  Once they figure out the screen size, then it'll take at least 4 to 6 months before they can announce, since they have to not only design the entire product, but they have to get FCC approvals, etc.  So, hopefully they'll have a larger screen model in 6 months time frame which would actually be good since if they announced all three models at once, they probably would have major production issues since they would have a TON of people lining up to buy all three.  I think flip flopping iPhone announcements every 6 months would be good from a production standpoint but also from an income standpoint.  It would increase their sales throughout the year instead of cramming all of the product announces in the last quarter of the year.

post #188 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Apple hasn't yet picked the screen size for their larger screen model, and I'm sure they are evaluating the IGZO technology due to being able to get much higher resolution.  Once they figure out the screen size, then it'll take at least 4 to 6 months before they can announce, since they have to not only design the entire product, but they have to get FCC approvals, etc.  So, hopefully they'll have a larger screen model in 6 months time frame which would actually be good since if they announced all three models at once, they probably would have major production issues since they would have a TON of people lining up to buy all three.  I think flip flopping iPhone announcements every 6 months would be good from a production standpoint but also from an income standpoint.  It would increase their sales throughout the year instead of cramming all of the product announces in the last quarter of the year.

 

That may be why they kept the 4S alive.  In 6 months the lineup might look like

IP6(Bigscreen) $199

IP5S($99)

IP5C($0)

post #189 of 226
Apple is losing it's market the only thing that people wanted was a larger screen iphone. It is amazing when a company is so proud and does not accept the new standard made by competition. This is stubborn from a leading tech company. And it's amazing how greedy they are. I switch to Samsung because of that. And I'm not sure my next computer will be an apple. Sometimes pc are just faster. I don't understand their policy. Just compare a sony z1 with the latest iphone. I am sorry to say better the sony. I watched the K note and I saw all guys from apple quite embarassed for coming out with such little improvments in a momentum when all other companies are doing their best. So Iphone will loose it's market share it's evident. The Ipad will resist another year I guess, but then it will start the decline. How incredible from such a great company to not understand his customer.

I was an apple fan now i started to be disappointed.

I am nobody but I am sure many people think as I do.

Profits will destroy apple.
post #190 of 226
Originally Posted by ferraferro
Apple is losing it's market

 

No. Every single chart says otherwise.

 
…the only thing that people wanted was a larger screen iPhone

 

No. This is patently false. Many people don't want a larger iPhone. Larger screens become unusable.

 
…the new standard made by competition.

 

No. The new "standard" is a worthless piece of crap. The new "standard" exists because they're all too stupid and lazy to make a compact phone with the best hardware on the market.

 
And I'm not sure my next computer will be an apple. Sometimes pc are just faster.

 

No. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. No.

 
I don't understand their policy.

 

Try, then.

 
Just compare a sony z1 with the latest iphone. I am sorry to say better the sony.

 

I'm sorry to say that we're not playing by golf rules.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #191 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraferro View Post

Apple is losing it's market the only thing that people wanted was a larger screen iphone. It is amazing when a company is so proud and does not accept the new standard made by competition. This is stubborn from a leading tech company. And it's amazing how greedy they are. I switch to Samsung because of that. And I'm not sure my next computer will be an apple. Sometimes pc are just faster. I don't understand their policy. Just compare a sony z1 with the latest iphone. I am sorry to say better the sony. I watched the K note and I saw all guys from apple quite embarassed for coming out with such little improvments in a momentum when all other companies are doing their best. So Iphone will loose it's market share it's evident. The Ipad will resist another year I guess, but then it will start the decline. How incredible from such a great company to not understand his customer.

I was an apple fan now i started to be disappointed.

I am nobody but I am sure many people think as I do.

Profits will destroy apple.

 

Apple obviously didn't want to introduce a larger screen phone until they figure out what the right size is.  They have to look at the market, the technology available  and  then design the thing. I think it'll be out around March of next year, but don't quote me on that if it doesn't happen.  IT is just a guess, but I was right about them releasing a 64 bit iPhone 5s.  Now, apply that same thing, Samsung won't be introducing 64 bit for a while.  Remember, Google has to first announce 64 bit support from the OS, then they have to get 64 bit chips to use and then it's about  6 to 12 month design cycle.  I haven't heard of any other mfg spitting out 64 bit processor samples for the Android market yet.  Have you? 

 

So, if 64 bit processing is important, Apple will have it much sooner than Android.  And how long is it going to take for s/w programmers to update Android apps to 64 bit?  DIdn't the guys that wrote Infinity Blade say it only took them 2 hours for their iOS version?  Normally, it takes a LOT longer than that.  Since Google has absolutely no experience going form 32 bit to 64 bit processing, how long is it going to take the Android market to switch?  Don't hold your breath, I think Google would have a spit out a 64 bit Nexus phone/tablet first, which may not happen this year, that might be a year from now, and then 6 months later you'll see Samsung and others.    It could get ugly for Android.  Oh well.  Too bad for them.

post #192 of 226

Wow, what's with all the negativity?  Oh, wait I forgot, the paid shills are on golden time to downplay the announcement.  I plan to buy 5s.

I can't wait to see what happens when the new iPad line is announced.  If it is anything like the iPhone 5c, 5s announcement it will be fun to watch the competition and their minions scramble.  Ooh!  Here's something to fuel the speculation mill and feed the shills - Imagine a retina iPad Mini with Touch ID, an A7x, M7 chip set and the ability to make calls...  (oh no's Shamesung)!

post #193 of 226
Originally Posted by Collin Smith View Post

…Imagine a retina iPad Mini with Touch ID, an A7x, M7 chip set and the ability to make calls...  (oh no's Shamesung)!

 

I rather think the next Mini will be A6-based. Unless Apple wants to really kick off the 64-bit era, that is.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #194 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Keep trolling. Only Sammy and Apple are making money and not because of the cheapie phones.

Devs are certain to develop for iOS because the apps can run on iPads and iPod touches as well as iPhones. In addition iOS users pay for apps. iOS also has a few screen sizes to worry about hence making it easier to develop for.

It's 14% of the market. And falling. Less than 40% of the tablet market and falling. It's clear to me that iOS is second fiddle to Android in most large development houses.

If you are a customer then a lower market share should be an issue. If you are an investor then the stock is off by $35 since the announcement. It held up until then. It's meeting occasional pockets of resistance but the stock went up from $400 in anticipation of a cheaper iPhone for developing markets and the market is spooked by apples loss of overall share. Proper fans of Apple and sane investors would be appalled. Here its a rant about "trolls" who happen to think - like the entire stock market - that the price of the iPhone C was a mistake.

Personally I don't think they started to design the iPhone 5C without the intention of scrapping the 4S, given the cost of maintaining the accessories for the old devices. However something went wrong. Devs are unhappy with iOS 7 as well. The fingerprint scanner better work.

I don't trust the existing management to create value. Another reason the stock went up was cooks claim about "new products" in the fall. If all that is is a refresh and a plastic case for last years device then the stock will slide back to its minimum value.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #195 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Who is this phone targeting, and who wouldn't spend $100 more to get the premium model, with faster processor, Touch ID, better camera etc.?

 

I happen to think that the 5C looks decent, for a plastic phone, I just think that Apple now has introduced a new model of iPhone that is priced almost the same as the premium model. $100 difference is nothing.

 

The fact that you even ask that question shows that you know positively NOTHING about marketing, or business in general.

post #196 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

Apple obviously didn't want to introduce a larger screen phone until they figure out what the right size is.  

 

What? They know exactly what the right size is. They just added it to 2 new iPhones.

post #197 of 226
I like these new phones, the 5C is about $100 more expensive off-contract than I thought it was going to be in the end, so its not going to be my new phone. I'm actually going to spend a bit more, and go for the 5S instead. Love the finger-print sensor tech, the 64 bit CPU and the new champagne gold finish isn't half bad either! I might go for it (the colour), but I'm not fully decided yet, I'll have to see all three finishes in the metal first.
post #198 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

It's 14% of the market. And falling. Less than 40% of the tablet market and falling. It's clear to me that iOS is second fiddle to Android in most large development houses.

Lets go download Infinity Blade for Android. Oh.

Shipments does not equal usage. Pull up the web usage charts, payments to Devs data, ad impressions, etc. since Android has 80% of the shipment market share, it's reasonable to expect the same % in usage but they aren't even close.
post #199 of 226
Quote:

Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
 

[snip]

 

There were lines when Microsoft released the surface, that's meaningless.

 

The questions isn't the 5S - that upgrade was fine (although why does the biggest tech company in the world not skip a design release? Why not introduce the 6 this year?) and nor is the problem the 5C. Thats an ok phone, but not for the price. It will sell, idiots on here will say it sells, but the question is not whether it will sell but how much of the market it can claw back. None I imagine. 

 

What is with the defend Apple at all costs nonsense you get here. I am on sports forums where fans - fanatics  who spend most of their disposable income on following their team which they, their fathers before them etc. have done for generations - and if the picked team is a disaster the manager gets a roasting. Here, no criticism of Apple or Cook is countenanced by certain Apple fans. Effectively the iPhone line out is Apple's team for the year, and its not a good selection at the price.

 

Makes no sense. There are no android trolls here, my android loving friends are just confused at the price Apple expects to sell a plastic phone at in Europe. They, however, for the most part don't really care. Android has won. Apple is just going for a niche rich product. 

 

Thats fine until developer interest wanes, apps disappear and the platform disintegrates. We've seen this story before. 

 

yes, lines are merely symbolic. but symbolism is not always meaningless. MS gets lines by giving away free tickets to concerts. while the iPhone lines reflect genuine  enthusiasm among a core group - and scalpers who wouldn't be there without a good reason.

 

sure, lots of folks here are fans. being a fan of a sports team or car brand or tech brand, etc. is fun. having something intelligent to say about the topic in question is even more fun. dissing the competition is fun too, for some. but if you're doing it as an identity statement or just to put people down, you're over the line and need professional help.

 

there is no "Android" as you refer to it. the single global android market share you refer to is a myth. there is no single android platform anymore. there is Google's, there is Amazon's, there is Samsung's (clearly in the process of intentionally splitting away from Google), plus other "forks," and globally there are dozens of "white box" versions from regional OEM's. few in China and India's huge markets have anything to do with Google's official Android ecosystem, they are using local web services and sites and apps we never hear of in the US or Europe. it might as well be a completely different OS, it is "android" in name only. US/Euro developers have little to do with it, and vice versa.

 

while in the "home base" US market alone, iOS is actually growing in share already this year, and the new iPhone/iOS 7 is sure to continue that trend. and we won't see KitKat until sometime next year.

 

so ... we've seen your "Android has won" story before too, and it's bunk.

 

but my real problem with your comment is while you quote my analysis, you never actually addressed its points (like i address yours above), instead just dismissing it to rant on. so here is the crux of my point again, have at it if you can:

 

"the combination of the freshly re-desinged and definitely improved iOS 7 with these two new models - one with great casual style and the other packed with useful technical wizardry - is going to blow away the consumer market. because together they make the iPhone "feel" reinvented. you can all say there is no "wow" there, but actually i see plenty of "wow" for regular folks. iOS 7 may already be old news to the technocrati, but none of the general public have seen it in action yet and everyone will find some of its new features really satisfying to use. add the distinctive two new hardware models to that and you have a huge hit coming up."

post #200 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collin Smith View Post
 

Wow, what's with all the negativity?  Oh, wait I forgot, the paid shills are on golden time to downplay the announcement.  I plan to buy 5s.

I can't wait to see what happens when the new iPad line is announced.  If it is anything like the iPhone 5c, 5s announcement it will be fun to watch the competition and their minions scramble.  Ooh!  Here's something to fuel the speculation mill and feed the shills - Imagine a retina iPad Mini with Touch ID, an A7x, M7 chip set and the ability to make calls...  (oh no's Shamesung)!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

I rather think the next Mini will be A6-based. Unless Apple wants to really kick off the 64-bit era, that is.

 

I think we see a $229 non retina iPad mini, a $329 Retina iPad mini, this year and am on the fence on A7/64 bit for the mini. Might be a year off. 

Full size iPad? A7X. Begun, the 64 bit mobile device wars have. Think of it this way. By 10/2015? Apple will only sell 64 bit mobile devices, all app developers (worth their salt/interested in more than just one and done apps) will have upgraded by then. It will be a thing of beauty. And I am not saying they can't, but not sure the competition can turn around this quickly in the next 24 months. 

It may not be obvious, but yesterday showed quite a bit of innovation and forward looking ideas.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


It's 14% of the market. And falling. Less than 40% of the tablet market and falling. It's clear to me that iOS is second fiddle to Android in most large development houses.

 

Do you have one source that states iOS is second fiddle to Android in any development house? I think iOS is even ahead of Android at Google, judging from the apps they've released? 

 

Not wanting to attack your statement, but I will post one article that states iOS is still king of the developer market (aside from the developer of Infinity Blade who was on stage yesterday, since they aren't a "large development house" as you state). I will also concede that Android is catching up, but has yet to relegate iOS to "second fiddle to Android in most large development houses." as you state.

 

From September 5 (or, 6 days ago - I admit, that is a long time, perhaps things have changed) : Forrester: Mobile developers’ top priority is still iOS, but Android is closing in

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
If you are a customer then a lower market share should be an issue. If you are an investor then the stock is off by $35 since the announcement. It held up until then. It's meeting occasional pockets of resistance but the stock went up from $400 in anticipation of a cheaper iPhone for developing markets and the market is spooked by apples loss of overall share. Proper fans of Apple and sane investors would be appalled. Here its a childish rant about "trolls" who happen to think - like the entire stock market - that the price of the iPhone C was a mistake.

 

You're posting on a site called AppleInsider.  Apple. Bashing Apple. Fits the bill. Sorry if it hurts. Again, just looking at facts. Try as one may, a fact is a fact, like it or not. Just as the above "Android development coming first in a growing number of place" admission is not something that brings a smile to my face, I can not argue the fact that research shows.

 

I have been a customer of Apple since at least 1983 (the first proof I can obtain). I have never, once, concerned myself with marketshare. I asked, "Is this the right product for me?" countless times over the past 30 years (ok, some of that was my parents, but it was me asking/pushing). Guess what the answer has been nearly every time? Yes. Market share or not. For me, they make the best products.

 

The stock being off today for investors? Any investor worth their salt would be loving this. Buy up. because on 9/23 or so (and certainly by the October iPad event) when Apple releases record breaking sales? Stock will go back up.

 

Stock Market - I am confused. Is Wall Street the sane/good guy you are portraying them as (because they would have to be to consider their opinion worthwhile) or are they the evil/greedy/corrupt harbingers of our economic doom? Which is it? I honestly can't keep up, because I am too busy moving forward to worry about the past.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
Personally I don't think they started to design the iPhone 5C without the intention of scrapping the 4S, given the cost of maintaining the accessories for the old devices. However something went wrong. Devs are unhappy with iOS 7 as well. The fingerprint scanner better work.
 

Your opinion, which you are entitled too. My personal opinion, as an IT Project Manager for Software Development (which is usually more flexible than hardware) - These type of changes take time, under the best circumstances. I don't even fully get what you are trying to say. That they started to design the 5C as the replacement for the 4S? Because of accessories? But something went wrong that caused them to keep the 4S on and scrap the 5 all together? No clue where you are going. Can't tell if it is in circles or just spinning tires. I can't even see where you are trying to go, and I have tried.

 

As far as Devs being unhappy with iOS7? From what I see, looks like it could go both ways, split, but who knows. I like it.

 

Fingerprint scanner? Seems like it from what I have read today.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
I don't trust the existing management to create value. Another reason the stock went up was cooks claim about "new products" in the fall. If all that is is a refresh and a plastic case for last years device then the stock will slide back to its minimum value.
 

If you want to get technical? It is still summer. for 10 more days. Just saying...

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