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First look: Apple's new iPhone 5s and 5c - Page 6

post #201 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
 

 

Give over. 64 bit iOS development is the same in 99.9% of cases as 32 bit development, unless the developer has done something weird. It doesnt help developers transition to OS X, to do that APple would merge the API. Its mostly the same anyway. However I don't see that ever happening. 

 

And 64 bits is meaningless in a phone. It frankly is pretty meaningless in home machines, only when RAM is greater than 4G and applications aren't running in compatibility mode will it matter. And that will be never for phones, probably. 

 

My home machine has 12GB, and I don’t think that’s exceptional. 32 bits theoretically addresses 4GB and most real 32-bit systems are constrained to less than 4GB. For a phone, I agree it’s not clear now why you would want this unless Apple has some plan to integrate phones into some future distributed OS. On the other hand my entry-level cell phone has about as much RAM and CPU throughput as a first generation Cray, and who would have thought that necessary 40 years ago?

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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post #202 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Oi View Post

Uh... air gesture works fine for me?

I have air gesture on my iPhone 5.
When I'm on a FaceTime call with my friends and I wave at them, they wave back.
Works great!
post #203 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm View Post
 

 

My home machine has 12GB, and I don’t think that’s exceptional. 32 bits theoretically addresses 4GB and most real 32-bit systems are constrained to less than 4GB. For a phone, I agree it’s not clear now why you would want this unless Apple has some plan to integrate phones into some future distributed OS. On the other hand my entry-level cell phone has about as much RAM and CPU throughput as a first generation Cray, and who would have thought that necessary 40 years ago?

 

 Mainframes are for handling lots of concurrent users.  These devices are not doing that type of computing.  Don't compare a cray to a mobile device from the standpoint that they are doing things the same way.

 

I'm sure with these smaller die sizes as they get smaller and smaller that they can fit more like 4GB and maybe even more RAM on board and do memory swaps with the NAND memory, which is getting faster.  I'm sure 64 bit computing on a mobile devices are more for games, video processing, etc. that need both GPU and CPU.  I think we are going to see more advancements in the tablet arena and they need to get iOS at 64 bit so both platforms are equal.  It makes ZERO sense to have a smartphone at 32 bit and their tablets, which use basically the same OS at 64 bit.   This is just the beginning of the transition from 32 bit to 64 bit computing on a mobile device and we'll see 2 to 3 years from now what kinds of things will be done that couldn't be done with 32 bit.  The biggest issue is more of what the app developers need to do on their end to take their 32 bit apps and transition to 64 bit.  Obviously, the developers that produced Infinity Blade indicated it only took 2 hours, which tells me it was just a simple recompile.  If that's all they need to do, then it's going to be fairly easy to transition.

 

For other platforms?  It may not be so easy. 

post #204 of 226

You can't be serious.  You understand most of the stockholders probably aren't even in the tech business, right?  They invest in the company cause it's run properly and has a chance for growth.  If the stockholders were so intelligent, they would be running the business.  They just want to make money.  If they aren't, they will find someone who will change that.

post #205 of 226

 Anyone know what time the 5s goes on sale. Is it midnight EST or midnight PST (3:00am EST)?

post #206 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluga View Post


It's better to completely cover the logo than to partially cover it IMHO. This way it reads Pho. Not a good move I think.

 

Because you stare at the back of your iPhone regularly?

post #207 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Apple has typically had 3 levels:

Good - two generations ago
Better - one generation ago - $100 more than Good
Best - newest generation - $200 more than Good

As of yesterday, Good was iPhone 4, Better was 4S, and Best was 5.

As their usual practice, when they released the iPhone 5S, the previous Good disappeared, the previous Better became Good and the previous Best became Better.

The only thing that happened differently this time is that when the iPhone 5 dropped from 'Best' to 'Better', it got a new case in lots of different colors. Other than that, everything is the same way they've done it for several generations.

Actually, I'm not really a fan of the 5c style (although I think most Apple products are very tastefully designed), but now that I think about it, I'm starting to realize that the strategy is kind of smart—I think some people would rather have a durable colored plastic back, and care less about the processor speed, the incremental camera improvements and the fingerprint sensor. Some people may also care about the $100. I'm guessing that it's also going to be easier for them to manufacture the 5c. If your kid wants an iPhone, for example, this might be the obvious one to get, and not just because it's cheaper.
post #208 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post
 

 

Yep, even before cameras went digital, correct me if I'm wrong, SLRs cameras with burst mode operated this way, set it to burst mode, hold the shutter button to keep shooting, in those days you'd need a motor drive addition to the camera, (I like cameras, never had pro equipment). But to idiot trolls, Samsung invented burst mode, f**king tools.

 

Yah, my various Nikons would blaze with the motordrive, I liked that for the extra battery power (and more standard batteries like AAs) rather then slamming through film but it was there.

post #209 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post
 

I like to see how many people fall for the 5C!

 

Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

 

Anyone who tries a 5c overseas where the 5 isn't compatible will be pleased.

post #210 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by daphreev View Post

I think you guys are over thinking it. There are still tons of people that are still buying the 4s, even though the 5 is out and the 5s will be out. Maybe that is Apple's target audience, the people who just want a iPhone just to want it; not for the specs.

My mom just bought an iPhone 4S, even though she had an option for the 5, wait a month for the 5s. She didn't care, she just wanted an iPhone.

Plus, in China, w/ their keynote tomorrow, the pricing can be drastically different from the US prices.

 

Plus, let's be perfectly clear, the 4/4s is a great looking device and the 4s is pretty damn fast in it's own right.

post #211 of 226
It reminds me of their approach with the Mac. Most computer manufacturers make a mid range tower, but Apple refuses, they go to both extremes, making an all-in-one for the home and a full-on Xeon-powered workstation for the office.

Likewise with these phones: most companies made a mid-range black plastic one. But Apple doesn't, instead they go to both extremes: a luxury gold/silver coloured metal one with all the bells and whistles, and their plastic one is not black but in primary colours, clearly aimed at the opposite end of the market.

For years people have wanted that x-Mac in the middle, now maybe they will want that x-phone in the middle.
post #212 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfellow View Post
 

I'm not discouraged, but I agree the HTC One looks better.

 

I also think the HTC One looks great too (and that was before I saw the blue and red models).

 

I have an iPhone4 and I feel that the iPhone5 and 5s are more or less the same design.

 

I would love for Steve Cook to take some of Apple's $billions and buy  HTC to have as a semi-independant subsidiary to produce an IOS version of the HTC One.      Apple needs to inject some competition with in hardware design within the IOS universe.   These recent Jony Ive phones are underwhelming.     HTC would probably be able to go after the lower end better and produce larger screen sizes expanding Apple's consumer appeal.

 

Besides purchasing HTC they should also pickup BlackBerry real cheap -otherwise Microsoft or Google will by them.   Apple gets a lot of sales within corporations but a lot of IT departments are MicroSoft shops and loath Apple.    A resurgent MS is a real threat to Apples market share.   Purchasing BB (with patents) would help Apple preserve its commercial sales by integrating BB encrypted email into iCloud.

 

Ultimately if the 5c and 5s don't perform up to the spectacular sales of previous years the Cook and/or the board could bring back Steve Forestall to kick @ss and clean house.  

post #213 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post
 

I also think the HTC One looks great too (and that was before I saw the blue and red models).

 

I have an iPhone4 and I feel that the iPhone5 and 5s are more or less the same design.

 

I would love for Steve Cook to take some of Apple's $billions and buy  HTC to have as a semi-independant subsidiary to produce an IOS version of the HTC One.      Apple needs to inject some competition with in hardware design within the IOS universe.   These recent Jony Ive phones are underwhelming.     HTC would probably be able to go after the lower end better and produce larger screen sizes expanding Apple's consumer appeal.

 

Besides purchasing HTC they should also pickup BlackBerry real cheap -otherwise Microsoft or Google will by them.   Apple gets a lot of sales within corporations but a lot of IT departments are MicroSoft shops and loath Apple.    A resurgent MS is a real threat to Apples market share.   Purchasing BB (with patents) would help Apple preserve its commercial sales by integrating BB encrypted email into iCloud.

 

Ultimately if the 5c and 5s don't perform up to the spectacular sales of previous years the Cook and/or the board could bring back Steve Forestall to kick @ss and clean house.  

 

THe HTC One is only 32 bit.  So when Google finally gets a 64 bit OS out, you won't be able to run it on your HTC One and then the value of the HTC One goes down to nothing.  The 5s is just the beginning for 64 bit.  Apple has far more experience in transitioning to 64 bit which the higher end pro market and gamers will want 64 bit apps.

 

Microsoft is in the same boat as Android.  I think you just don't get it.

post #214 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

It reminds me of their approach with the Mac. Most computer manufacturers make a mid range tower, but Apple refuses, they go to both extremes, making an all-in-one for the home and a full-on Xeon-powered workstation for the office.

Likewise with these phones: most companies made a mid-range black plastic one. But Apple doesn't, instead they go to both extremes: a luxury gold/silver coloured metal one with all the bells and whistles, and their plastic one is not black but in primary colours, clearly aimed at the opposite end of the market.

For years people have wanted that x-Mac in the middle, now maybe they will want that x-phone in the middle.

 

The MacPros are for creative pros that are doing more than just Office apps.  Office doesn't need much horsepower.  A MacMini is perfect for an Office if price is a concern, but for audio, graphics, video crowd, and even gamers, that's what the MacPro is for.

post #215 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

THe HTC One is only 32 bit.  So when Google finally gets a 64 bit OS out, you won't be able to run it on your HTC One and then the value of the HTC One goes down to nothing.  The 5s is just the beginning for 64 bit.  Apple has far more experience in transitioning to 64 bit which the higher end pro market and gamers will want 64 bit apps.

 

Microsoft is in the same boat as Android.  I think you just don't get it.

 

Google may never bother to develop a 64 bit Android. as discussed in a DED AI piece a few weeks ago, Google may wind down its Android project gradually, since being mainly Samsung's free software development staff really isn't a great longterm business plan. more likely Google will focus on Chrome OS from now on, creating a "walled garden" platform of its own that runs on top of anyone else's (classic Google rip-off tactic).

post #216 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

I also think the HTC One looks great too (and that was before I saw the blue and red models).

I have an iPhone4 and I feel that the iPhone5 and 5s are more or less the same design.

I would love for Steve Cook to take some of Apple's $billions and buy  HTC to have as a semi-independant subsidiary to produce an IOS version of the HTC One.      Apple needs to inject some competition with in hardware design within the IOS universe.   These recent Jony Ive phones are underwhelming.     HTC would probably be able to go after the lower end better and produce larger screen sizes expanding Apple's consumer appeal.

Besides purchasing HTC they should also pickup BlackBerry real cheap -otherwise Microsoft or Google will by them.   Apple gets a lot of sales within corporations but a lot of IT departments are MicroSoft shops and loath Apple.    A resurgent MS is a real threat to Apples market share.   Purchasing BB (with patents) would help Apple preserve its commercial sales by integrating BB encrypted email into iCloud.

Ultimately if the 5c and 5s don't perform up to the spectacular sales of previous years the Cook and/or the board could bring back Steve Forestall to kick @ss and clean house.  

Enough of this Forstall crap. If he was that great, someone would have lured him away from Apple years ago.
post #217 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post
 

 

Google may never bother to develop a 64 bit Android. as discussed in a DED AI piece a few weeks ago, Google may wind down its Android project gradually, since being mainly Samsung's free software development staff really isn't a great longterm business plan. more likely Google will focus on Chrome OS from now on, creating a "walled garden" platform of its own that runs on top of anyone else's (classic Google rip-off tactic).

 

Then why are they wasting so much money trying to promote KitKat?  I know they are losing money in certain ways with Android.  If they did it properly, they would have just come out with an OEM OS that is done similarly to how Microsoft does Windows where you install the OS and pay a residual licensing fee of $25 or whatever they need to charge for each major release and then give out for free bug fixes and security fixes in between each major release. Then if they have apps that are worth charging for, then they charge money for them or a service, etc.  Relying on just ad revenue from forcing users to use Google Search, or hoping that people will actually use their free apps enough to pay for their services?  I don't know if they are really making enough from that.  Has Google made any public announcements to this effect?  They really haven't talked about KitKat other than the name of it, I haven't heard or seen anything specific about it.

 

I think Google might be in a big mess right now.

post #218 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Enough of this Forstall crap. If he was that great, someone would have lured him away from Apple years ago.

 

I'm not totally against Forstall, people make mistakes, it's just that he should have added certain features that are in iOS 7 that should have been there several years ago, and he kind of messed up with Maps.  I think he was a little over his head.

 

I have mixed feelings about skeuomorphic design.  In the audio recording industry it is commonly used as they make plug ins and apps to look just like the actual product and it gives the user, which are usually used to using the hardware version of the same product, so they can EASILY see the settings and know what it means, if the interface is too different from an actual product they still use, it confuses them.  I can completely see how some people like and prefer that type of design concept.  But if you are developing an app that has no real "hardware" version that you are emulating, then it might not work as well.  I do like the 3D icons they have on OS X and hope they don't get rid of those.  Some developers come out with some cool designs, some don't.  But I can tell at a glance sometimes what version I'm using because some developers change the icon of the app for each version.


Either way, Scott is still an advisor to Apple and he still gets a paycheck, just not as big.  He's still useful I think, on some level, just not in upper management.  Which just means he might not be suited in that role.  Some people get to upper management and now how to deal with that role and some don't.  Some are better at advising and giving a different perspective to think about.  I wish I was in some of the meetings in terms of direction for the product.  I sometimes see some obvious things that are being overlooked.  I think all Apple products should have IR built in so someone can use a remote control to control the device or the device can transform into a remote control depending on what the device is, but I still think IR is useful at some level for ALL devices.

 

Getting back to Scott, maybe he didn't want to leave Apple, which I don't think he did.  I just think his ego got the best of him, but he's still an advisor to my knowledge.  Heck, the guy is probably rich enough where he could retire if he invested his money properly if he didn't want to work for Google, Microsoft or someone else doing something similar. Maybe he's going to start his own software company.

post #219 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Give over. 64 bit iOS development is the same in 99.9% of cases as 32 bit development, unless the developer has done something weird. It doesnt help developers transition to OS X, to do that APple would merge the API. Its mostly the same anyway. However I don't see that ever happening. 

And 64 bits is meaningless in a phone. It frankly is pretty meaningless in home machines, only when RAM is greater than 4G and applications aren't running in compatibility mode will it matter. And that will be never for phones, probably. 

Give over what? Are you "mugging" me to come over to your way of thinking? Not going to happen... because you are wrong about your assessment of 64-bit and how important it is going forward.

From Wikipedia: edited to include this one point, the rest you can read from the link.
Quote:
Pros and cons (edited)
A common misconception is that 64-bit architectures are no better than 32-bit architectures unless the computer has more than 4 GB of random access memory.[24] This is not entirely true:

Memory-mapped files are becoming more difficult to implement in 32-bit architectures as files of over 4 GB become more common; such large files cannot be memory-mapped easily to 32-bit architectures—only part of the file can be mapped into the address space at a time, and to access such a file by memory mapping, the parts mapped must be swapped into and out of the address space as needed. This is a problem, as memory mapping, if properly implemented by the OS, is one of the most efficient disk-to-memory methods.

Seems to me the above bolded portion would be even more important in a mobile device, with many Apps, databases open plus background processes, than even a desktop.

Beyond that, the efficiency of developing an optimized OS for the future and kicking out the bloat and cruft, certainly must be seen as a huge advantage to not only the devices running the OS, but also for the developers creating Apps for it.

You're going to have to do more than pull a "Pea Shooter" reply to get me to change my mind on this... "Tread lightly".... just sayin'... 1smoking.gif
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post #220 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

I'm not totally against Forstall, people make mistakes, it's just that he should have added certain features that are in iOS 7 that should have been there several years ago, and he kind of messed up with Maps.  I think he was a little over his head.

 

I have mixed feelings about skeuomorphic design.  ...


Either way, Scott is still an advisor to Apple and he still gets a paycheck, just not as big. ...

 

Getting back to Scott, maybe he didn't want to leave Apple, which I don't think he did.  I just think his ego got the best of him, but he's still an advisor to my knowledge.  Heck, the guy is probably rich enough where he could retire if he invested his money properly if he didn't want to work for Google, Microsoft or someone else doing something similar. Maybe he's going to start his own software company.

I like some skeuomorphism, just not over blown.   But what I definitely like about IOS4-IOS6 is that the text in the APPS is easy for me to read.    I'm going to have to look closely at IOS7 with its skinny font and  translucent backgrounds to see if it works for me.   My initial reaction from the presentations is no, but I may have to visit the Apple store to play with it several times to convince my self to download it.

 

Its good Apple still has Forstall.  He would never be made head of MS, but he would be great to create a suite of iLife type APPS for Windows Phone OS, Windows RT, Windows 8.1. 

 

I would love if Apple implemented some features like Qi wireless recharging that have already been done by other companies.   A little copying doesn't hurt if it makes for a better phone.   Apple shouldn't cut off its nose to spite its face.

post #221 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

THe HTC One is only 32 bit.  So when Google finally gets a 64 bit OS out, you won't be able to run it on your HTC One and then the value of the HTC One goes down to nothing.  The 5s is just the beginning for 64 bit.  Apple has far more experience in transitioning to 64 bit which the higher end pro market and gamers will want 64 bit apps.

Microsoft is in the same boat as Android.  I think you just don't get it.

Why would 64-bit processing not be backward compatible with 32-bit systems? The 5C 32-bit and the 5S 64-bit will both run iOS7. The new ARM-50 series will do the same thing on Android/Linux etc. architecture.
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post #222 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I'm not totally against Forstall, people make mistakes, it's just that he should have added certain features that are in iOS 7 that should have been there several years ago, and he kind of messed up with Maps.  I think he was a little over his head.

I have mixed feelings about skeuomorphic design.  In the audio recording industry it is commonly used as they make plug ins and apps to look just like the actual product and it gives the user, which are usually used to using the hardware version of the same product, so they can EASILY see the settings and know what it means, if the interface is too different from an actual product they still use, it confuses them.  I can completely see how some people like and prefer that type of design concept.  But if you are developing an app that has no real "hardware" version that you are emulating, then it might not work as well.  I do like the 3D icons they have on OS X and hope they don't get rid of those.  Some developers come out with some cool designs, some don't.  But I can tell at a glance sometimes what version I'm using because some developers change the icon of the app for each version.


Either way, Scott is still an advisor to Apple and he still gets a paycheck, just not as big.  He's still useful I think, on some level, just not in upper management.  Which just means he might not be suited in that role.  Some people get to upper management and now how to deal with that role and some don't.  Some are better at advising and giving a different perspective to think about.  I wish I was in some of the meetings in terms of direction for the product.  I sometimes see some obvious things that are being overlooked.  I think all Apple products should have IR built in so someone can use a remote control to control the device or the device can transform into a remote control depending on what the device is, but I still think IR is useful at some level for ALL devices.

Getting back to Scott, maybe he didn't want to leave Apple, which I don't think he did.  I just think his ego got the best of him, but he's still an advisor to my knowledge.  Heck, the guy is probably rich enough where he could retire if he invested his money properly if he didn't want to work for Google, Microsoft or someone else doing something similar. Maybe he's going to start his own software company.

Don't get me wrong, Forstall was important to Apple. But I hate when people say to put him or Jony as CEO.
post #223 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Don't get me wrong, Forstall was important to Apple. But I hate when people say to put him or Jony as CEO.

Craig Federighi! 1wink.gif
post #224 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Give over what? Are you "mugging" me to come over to your way of thinking? Not going to happen... because you are wrong about your assessment of 64-bit and how important it is going forward.

From Wikipedia: edited to include this one point, the rest you can read from the link.
Seems to me the above bolded portion would be even more important in a mobile device, with many Apps, databases open plus background processes, than even a desktop.

Beyond that, the efficiency of developing an optimized OS for the future and kicking out the bloat and cruft, certainly must be seen as a huge advantage to not only the devices running the OS, but also for the developers creating Apps for it.

You're going to have to do more than pull a "Pea Shooter" reply to get me to change my mind on this... "Tread lightly".... just sayin'... 1smoking.gif

That linked in article was about how the OS can handle files, individual files, which are bigger than 4G more efficiently in memory. That's not even much of an issue for most desktop machines. 64 bit architecture doesn't reduce crud, it adds to the memory foot print of most apps. The iPhone 5S will be faster but not because of 64 bits but because the CPU is faster.

The only pea shooter reply is quoting stuff you don't really understand from Wikipedia.
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post #225 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Why would 64-bit processing not be backward compatible with 32-bit systems? The 5C 32-bit and the 5S 64-bit will both run iOS7. The new ARM-50 series will do the same thing on Android/Linux etc. architecture.

In these cases applications or libraries are built Fat.
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post #226 of 226
U
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

I like some skeuomorphism, just not over blown.   But what I definitely like about IOS4-IOS6 is that the text in the APPS is easy for me to read.    I'm going to have to look closely at IOS7 with its skinny font and  translucent backgrounds to see if it works for me.   My initial reaction from the presentations is no, but I may have to visit the Apple store to play with it several times to convince my self to download it.

Its good Apple still has Forstall.  He would never be made head of MS, but he would be great to create a suite of iLife type APPS for Windows Phone OS, Windows RT, Windows 8.1. 

I would love if Apple implemented some features like Qi wireless recharging that have already been done by other companies.   A little copying doesn't hurt if it makes for a better phone.   Apple shouldn't cut off its nose to spite its face.
the system font look is a bit variable in 7, set it how you like.
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