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Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma - Page 4

post #121 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



Apple can't win when Wall Street wants cheap products but high margins and huge profits.

 



I think the "issue" here is that the analysts were hoping that Apple would make a phone that was cheap enough for emerging markets where the carriers don't offer subsidies. The 5C really doesn't do that, although it certainly gets closer to the mark. What the analysts are upset about is that Apple may be cannibalizing 5S sales with the 5C. The 5C will sell like hotcakes, sure, but the question is how many of those folks would've just bought the higher-profit 5S is the 5C didn't exist. In order to really reach China and India, the belief is that the 5C needs to be a lot lower than $550. We'll see if that belief is correct, though I hope it's not.
post #122 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Then don't complain when the reports of exploding iPhones start pouring in. lol.gif

 

Otherwise known as C5

post #123 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by eckergus View Post

I agree. That's exactly right. People forget about families and how now days kids --and I literally mean kids-- and now getting cellphones from their parents. I can see kids wanting the iPhobe 5c. It's going to be an explosion I'm telling you. People are complaining about it just like they did when Apple first released the iPad, but you just wait. This phone is going to sell. You just watch!

Bingo. It's also going to appeal to a lot of young professionals. It's going to sell like hotcakes. Just like the iPhone 5 inside, but entirely new design which will appeal to younger, more fashionable people. It's also going to appeal strongly to customers in Asia - in spite of the price.

All of the "the Chinese can't afford an expensive phone" arguments are idiotic. "The Chinese" is not a reasonable description. They range from people who can't afford their next meal to people who could buy a new Gulfstream jet every month without noticing the drain. The question is, 'how many Chinese can afford $550 for an iPhone'? The answer is, 'plenty'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I see that Constabe Odo is still confusing Apple's architectural statement in plastic and metal with Samsung's lazy use of plastic that reaembles an insect's carapace. Couldn't be more different.

Exactly. People who use 'plastic' as meaning 'junk' are obviously uninformed. Good design means choosing the proper material for different elements. Plastic can easily be the 'premium' material in some cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Lol, it's just plastic! lol.gif By the way look at AAPL price! $445!!! I guess the markets doesn't like too much this "extraordinaire plastic"!

Wall Street is notoriously bad on defining Apple's value - especially in short term swings like this. How else do you justify Amazon's market cap compared to Apple's, for example?
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

So, basically, Apple is willing to trade their "premium" brand status to save a few bucks.

Two flaws with that argument:
1. Apple was never a "premium" brand. They don't sell on the basis of exclusivity or high price. Rather, they sell on the basis of design, ease of use, and ecosystem. That hasn't changed a bit.

2. The fact that they use plastic doesn't make it any lower in quality. There are plastics that cost hundreds of times what aluminum costs. There are plastics that outperform aluminum in many regards. You can't simply say "plastic = bad" because that's foolish. By all reports, Apple's 'plastic' phone is better than the other ones on the market - which simply reinforces what you're calling the 'premium brand'. "Sure, some people make junky phones, but ours are high quality - even when we use plastic".
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post #124 of 179
It's only half the price if you're in the United States.

For emerging markets, it's 5/6 the price. Hardly a dent.
post #125 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The 5C is not better than the 5. It's just cheaper for you to make. The entire 5C move was to pad margins and increase profits.

Good for shareholders. I'm actually surprised the stock is down. Wall Street should be happy Tim is make a big business move like this...

While the 5c is based on the 5 it has revised components, better (more compatible) radio and likely improved battery life (even w/o iOS 7).
It is also less fragile which is key in a younger, hipper, more active crowd than the typical top-end iPhone customers are.

As for Wall Street, they don't know what they want:
Had the iPhone been cheaper the stock would go down for lower margins, if the pricing and margins stay up the stock goes down for lower sales, and if apple had put out a castrated device that could have been made with high margins and sold at a low price, the stock would have tumbled because such a product would hurt Apple's brand image.

You should know that AAPL will remain doomed for as long as there are speculators that can make money that way...
post #126 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

It's only half the price if you're in the United States.

For emerging markets, it's 5/6 the price. Hardly a dent.

 

No, it's half the subsidized price. You still pay approx $1200 for a 5C over 2 years on contract, and approx $1300 for a 5S.

 

Same as a mortgage, you put 20% down and pay for the remainder over the duration of the loan (in this case at exorbitant interest rate).

 

Doesn't mean you bought the house for 20% of its value.

post #127 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The 5C is no where near as nice as the 3GS. The 3GS felt expensive in the hand and it was a delight to press the metal buttons and switches.

Although both phones are polycarbonate the 3GS looked and felt like a premium product. The 5C does not.

So let me get this straight. There are now 3 arguments in this thread?
1. "plastic is plastic"
2. "5c is premium plastic"
3. "3GS was premium plastic, 5c is not"???

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post #128 of 179

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then... 

 

post #129 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Two flaws with that argument:
1. Apple was never a "premium" brand. They don't sell on the basis of exclusivity or high price. Rather, they sell on the basis of design, ease of use, and ecosystem. That hasn't changed a bit.

2. The fact that they use plastic doesn't make it any lower in quality. There are plastics that cost hundreds of times what aluminum costs. There are plastics that outperform aluminum in many regards. You can't simply say "plastic = bad" because that's foolish. By all reports, Apple's 'plastic' phone is better than the other ones on the market - which simply reinforces what you're calling the 'premium brand'. "Sure, some people make junky phones, but ours are high quality - even when we use plastic".

 

I'll give you #2 to a degree (plastic is still cheap to me regardless of the manufacturing process) but #1??!! Are you kidding??!! That is all we hear on this forum. Apple is a premium phone!! Apple is a premium phone!! You pay more because you get more!!

 

Maybe Apple didn't intend it, as you say (although I don't agree), but almost every Apple fan on here would agree that Apple's image is that of a "premium" phone maker.

 

[... and I never said that Apple based its premium status on exclusivity or high price. ]

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post #130 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post




I see no benefit 

 

Making lots of money, is benefit a few people will notice, I assure you.

post #131 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 
Apple explicitly says otherwise. And since plastic is inherently recyclable, you don't have a leg to stand on.

There's nothing inherently recyclable about plastic; as a matter of fact most plastics are inherently non-recyclable, many even toxic to burn for energy recovery.

Polycarbonate is a fortunate exception which is one reason why it's use has surged.
So yes, the iPhone should be good for recycling, although the coloring and possibly also the coating may restrict the use of the recycled plastic to low grade applications, but that's very much due to a deliberate choice of a specific material and nothing inherent to all plastics.
post #132 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post
 

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then... 

 

 

Actually, that's not quite true. I can remember quite a few people who were upset that Apple had started using plastic.

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post #133 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post
 

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then... 

 

 

Because they weren't cheap, nor was there anything wrong with them. Nor is there anything wrong with the iPhone 4, 5, 5C, 5S.

 

People just need something to bitch about.

post #134 of 179
It's so they can compete with the nokia 1020, obviously. How convenient it is to forget that this exciting new design was created 2-3 years ago from nokia and continues today with their impressive camera phone which also has a oversized pixels, only it has a 9 element lens not a 5 element lens.

http://www.nokia.com/us-en/phones/phone/lumia1020/
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post #135 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Actually, that's not quite true. I can remember quite a few people who were upset that Apple had started using plastic.

 

LOL on the Internet I'm sure! 

post #136 of 179
It reminds me of if suppose Apple were asked to design a low-end iPhone for Target exclusively.
post #137 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Are you nuts?  On ATT an iPhone 5 costs effectively $1100 + $199 or $1300 when compared to an equivalent BYOD plan on t-Mobile. In other words thats how much extra you pay over 2 years for a similar data plan but with subsidized phone.

 

The 5C effectively costs $1200. 

 

Nowhere near half. Methinks effective marketing has sucked you in nicely.

 



Yup you nailed it.
I for one would spend the extra 100 and get the 5s(which I will)... no brainer. But... there are probably a significant portion that that $100 makes a difference. Time will tell.
Plus next year the price will drop after the new iphone... maybe.

Another 'tech site' asked its readers if they are the updating and if so which iphone would they get- ~59% 5s to ~3% 5c ~ (~35% will not upgrade) ... 5s is the huge winner for that un-scientific survey.

Pure opinion here....
While Jony is unapologetic (think about it, he had to say it... that says a lot), IMO, the 5C phone 'looks' like a Fisher-Price toy... something a Weeble would use. Yes other iphones where plastic, but the iP 4 set the bar so high on 'quality build/feel etc'. To go back...just seems a step back.
And the colors... its ok to have Pink and neon green etc.. to each their own. But how about some colors that are shifted in the palette(to dare I say 'normal'.. ok conservative.. alright boring ), a dark blue for example, ... something to compliement these Weeble colors.
Edited by boeyc15 - 9/11/13 at 8:33am
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post #138 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by galore2112 View Post

Apple's marketing is really good. They now tout a steel frame inside the plastic shell !!!

As if other plastic phones do not have a steel frame inside. Almost all of them do. There is nothing special with Apple's steel frame inside the plastic shell

Nothing really new since Motorola used a similar method with the RAZR almost 2 years ago, but they used a rigid form of kevlar for the back.
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post #139 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesicorp View Post

The more I hear and see from Tim Cook the less impressed I get. This was an opportunity for Apple to completely capture the Chinese market for decades by launching a lower cost phone. If they had made a phone exclusively for China Mobile and priced at $450 unlocked, it would have been a game changer. They could have used cheaper components to keep margins around 25 to 30 percent and no one could use the phone elsewhere because China Mobile has a unique 4G frequency. Instead the 5C is priced over $700 in China while competitors are selling smartphones as low as $200. Apple would sacrifice a little bit of margin but be able to griw its ecosystem which is the key value driver for its share price. Instead, Apple is rapidly losing share in China to Android. The content in China is quickly moving away from iOS and once it's lost it's very hard to get back. Tim Cook seems incapable of appreciating this and I really think he needs to go. He's become a hinderence and a very high priced hinderence at that.

My thought is that Apple isn't motivated solely by market share as they are by profit. Apple's experience with the Mac is that they know how to be profitable without having the lions share of the PC market, and they may be balancing lower sales with higher profit in China. Remember: Apple is still growing in China--don't confuse market growth for marketshare (which is a ratio), and the long term bet is that as the Chinese middle class become more affluent, they'll switch to a better, more premium product. That might be Apple's long game. It's easier for a premium brand to sell downmarket than for a cheap brand to sell upmarket. The 5c is not going to compete with the bottom of the barrel, and Apple will never go there.

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post #140 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That is all we hear on this forum. Apple is a premium phone!! Apple is a premium phone!! You pay more because you get more!!

Apple doesn't even begin to be a premium/luxury phone: that would require a totally different positioning, could never be a mass-market product, because premium requires exclusivity, and there's nothing exclusive about the iPhone except if you want to be first one in your hood to sport one after a new model was released.

So no, non-crap != premium. To deliver certain things requires asking a certain price, and if what you want to deliver is high-quality that affects the price tag; but "high-quality products" and "premium products" are totally different markets.
post #141 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

I'll give you #2 to a degree (plastic is still cheap to me regardless of the manufacturing process) but #1??!! Are you kidding??!! That is all we hear on this forum. Apple is a premium phone!! Apple is a premium phone!! You pay more because you get more!!

 

Maybe Apple didn't intend it, as you say (although I don't agree), but almost every Apple fan on here would agree that Apple's image is that of a "premium" phone maker.

 

[... and I never said that Apple based its premium status on exclusivity or high price. ]

 

???

 

No.

 

Apple is only a "premium" brand in the sense that people typically accept a pile of crap as average or good...while Apple says forget what the market says, lets make the best possible phone and we'll charge whatever we think its worth.

 

Maybe its the fact that you can't distinguish Apple from any other company, which is your own failure. But they have a unique approach that no one else has. And the result is what is it is. 

 

You calling it "premium" doesn't accurately describe them at all....it DOES however accurately describe your interpretation of what you're seeing......

 

You believe that crap is the norm and something decent is premium. That's not so uncommon as most Americans have gotten used to junk they're expected to pay for being the norm.

post #142 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

Are you nuts?  On ATT an iPhone 5 costs effectively $1100 + $199 or $1300 when compared to an equivalent BYOD plan on t-Mobile. In other words thats how much extra you pay over 2 years for a similar data plan but with subsidized phone.

 

The 5C effectively costs $1200. 

 

Nowhere near half. Methinks effective marketing has sucked you in nicely.

 

And did you expect that to change? Phone service is expensive, and is the joke of the entire pricing scheme. It was either going to be 1300 vs. 1200, or 1300 vs. 1100. Makes no difference at all, except to the idiot consumer in the store looking at the devices and deciding that $99 is a good deal for this pretty blue iPhone.

post #143 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Then don't complain when the reports of exploding iPhones start pouring in. lol.gif

Otherwise known as C5

Nice pun 1biggrin.gif
post #144 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesicorp View Post

The more I hear and see from Tim Cook the less impressed I get. This was an opportunity for Apple to completely capture the Chinese market for decades by launching a lower cost phone. If they had made a phone exclusively for China Mobile and priced at $450 unlocked, it would have been a game changer. They could have used cheaper components to keep margins around 25 to 30 percent and no one could use the phone elsewhere because China Mobile has a unique 4G frequency. Instead the 5C is priced over $700 in China while competitors are selling smartphones as low as $200. Apple would sacrifice a little bit of margin but be able to griw its ecosystem which is the key value driver for its share price. Instead, Apple is rapidly losing share in China to Android. The content in China is quickly moving away from iOS and once it's lost it's very hard to get back. Tim Cook seems incapable of appreciating this and I really think he needs to go. He's become a hinderence and a very high priced hinderence at that.

 

Oh FFS, blah blah blah blah blah. "If only Apple did this they would rule the world."

 

Do you have any idea how pedantic, dated, and uninformed this gibberish sounds to other people?

 

Apple has enough frigging money. They are not interested in a race to the bottom. They are not, NOR SHOULD THEY EVER BE, interested in compromising their products to create a "game changer" in China.

 

Guess what? They already did create a game changer in China. Its called the iPhone 5C and the iPhone 5S. Both are stunning, and as affordable as they've ever been. People are going to buy them because they like them, and that's the end of it.

 

Huge exposure in China and new carrier opportunities are going to make this the best year in China, ever. You don't just magically accomplish the same thing or better by lowering the price another $100. Grow up for crying out loud.

post #145 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

 

???

 

No.

 

Apple is only a "premium" brand in the sense that people typically accept a pile of crap as average or good...while Apple says forget what the market says, lets make the best possible phone and we'll charge whatever we think its worth.

 

Maybe its the fact that you can't distinguish Apple from any other company, which is your own failure. But they have a unique approach that no one else has. And the result is what is it is. 

 

You calling it "premium" doesn't accurately describe them at all....it DOES however accurately describe your interpretation of what you're seeing......

 

You believe that crap is the norm and something decent is premium. That's not so uncommon as most Americans have gotten used to junk they're expected to pay for being the norm.

 

Maybe you should re-read my comment... you know... the part about "maybe Apple didn't intend it".

 

Or maybe the part about other people's constant chants that Apple is a premium product.

 

Or maybe the fact that when some people said what you are saying, that Apple is not a premium phone as in the vein of RR, Rolex etc., then all you got was an endless stream of people refuting the idea that Apple isn't premium.

 

You either haven't been paying attention or, as others have said, this forum just blows in whatever direction is suitable at the time.

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post #146 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

 

And did you expect that to change? Phone service is expensive, and is the joke of the entire pricing scheme. It was either going to be 1300 vs. 1200, or 1300 vs. 1100. Makes no difference at all, except to the idiot consumer in the store looking at the devices and deciding that $99 is a good deal for this pretty blue iPhone.

 

I do expect it to change. T-mobiles BYOD plans are very affordable and they have 0% purchase plans, the actual cost (not bloated cost) of the device is amortized over 24 months.  It has been a big success for t-mobile and I'm sure other carriers will follow.

My family of 4 have 4 smartphones, unlimited talk/text on all and 2.5GB data on 3 phones (no data on 4th), in total we pay less than $100/month on BYOD plan.

post #147 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



Apple can't win when Wall Street wants cheap products but high margins and huge profits.

 



I think the "issue" here is that the analysts were hoping that Apple would make a phone that was cheap enough for emerging markets where the carriers don't offer subsidies. The 5C really doesn't do that, although it certainly gets closer to the mark. What the analysts are upset about is that Apple may be cannibalizing 5S sales with the 5C. The 5C will sell like hotcakes, sure, but the question is how many of those folks would've just bought the higher-profit 5S is the 5C didn't exist. In order to really reach China and India, the belief is that the 5C needs to be a lot lower than $550. We'll see if that belief is correct, though I hope it's not.

The assumption that the 5c has lower margins than the 5s may be quite wrong.
The 5c may be faster to manufacture and since metal machining capacity was in the past one significant supply constraint, going polycarbonate may mean being able to fill orders more quickly.
I'd not be surprised if Apple made more money on each 5c than on each 5s, because the newer and added tech and more expensive manufacturing adds up.
Apple tries to hit certain price points, irrespective of margins.
In the end Apple may want the 5c to massively cannibalize the 5s, because they may make more on each device and ship them faster. It's sufficient for the 5s to set new standards in the market, it is not required for the majority to buy one for Apple to be wildly successful.
post #148 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 

I'd be willing to bet that the 5C will sell better than had they stood with the 5 as it is now.

#1 reason is cost, there's a finite amount of aluminum in the world thus subjective to supply and demand price increases whereas plastic can be produced over and over again keeping the price relatively static.

There are likely more 5c sold than 5 would have been sold: the 5 is only "last years inferior model" while the 5c is this years younger, hipper, more colorful and more youthful alternative to the staid, grown-up, business-like 5s.

As for the thing about plastic vs. aluminum/glass: there's less of a shortage of the latter than there is of oil to make from the former. Aluminum is quite plentiful, just energy intensive to make unless using recycled aluminum; the beauty being that aluminum can be recycled very well.
post #149 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Maybe you should re-read my comment... you know... the part about "maybe Apple didn't intend it".

Or maybe the part about other people's constant chants that Apple is a premium product.

Or maybe the fact that when some people said what you are saying, that Apple is not a premium phone as in the vein of RR, Rolex etc., then all you got was an endless stream of people refuting the idea that Apple isn't premium.

You either haven't been paying attention or, as others have said, this forum just blows in whatever direction is suitable at the time.

Sorry to see you're getting tangled up with that word "premium." It's disgusting marketingspeak.

Apple is a mass manufacturer of stuff that is supposed to make people's lives better, as well as possible according to the best technology they can pull together from everywhere, as well as develop themselves, e.g., their chip designs or software.

They're not making jewelry or luxury items, which is where your marketing term "premium" belongs.

What they're conveying with their new plastic brick with soft edges and bright pastels is a combination of solidity, warmth and fun, along with the usual best computer-in-your-pocket experience possible for ordinary people, i.e., not geeks. It's got nothing to do with premium.

The solidity of the rectangular plastic brick, the simplicity of the shape, and the colorful warmth is how they are distinguished from the likes of Samsung's thoughtless contours, seaminess, and ugly laminations. Samsung even uses a plastichrome bezel which wears off its shine in months.

To think in terms of "premium" is just too vague and rag trade.
post #150 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then... 


 

I'd have to argue that these aren't "ergonomic" shapes once they come out of your pocket. They're too slippery and they present you with no edges for control in handling.

Once Apple realized that they were making cameras as much as anything else with their pocket computers, they squared off the sides and flattened the back for a more ergonomic approach to handling and setting up on a table or tripod.

The plastic 5C continues with this precision in shape. Why can't anyone see this simple fact? Do they not have hands and fingers?
post #151 of 179
Here's an ad Apple should do, just for the fun of it.

Take some burned out hippie that tripping on LSD going to an Apple Store to buy a iPhone 5c and walking in and saying to the Apple sales person the following:

"WOW MAN!!! I'm tripping. Colors man, WOW!! I can't decide which colors to get. WOW MAN!!!, F it, I'll buy em all, COLORS MAN!!!"

The Apple sales rep says the following:

"Maybe you'd be interested in looking at the iPhone 5s"

The Hippie replies:

"Oh man, that's too many colors, man!!! I'm tripping heavily." "whatever, just load me with colors, I'll take them all!!!" " Oh WOW man, I"m out of cash, do you take shrooms and weed instead?"

Apple reps says "NO, MAN!!" "Cash, check or charge, MAN!"


Hippie says as the ad fades "Oh Man, COLORS"
post #152 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Are you nuts?  On ATT an iPhone 5 costs effectively $1100 + $199 or $1300 when compared to an equivalent BYOD plan on t-Mobile. In other words thats how much extra you pay over 2 years for a similar data plan but with subsidized phone.

 

The 5C effectively costs $1200. 

 

Nowhere near half. Methinks effective marketing has sucked you in nicely.

 



Yup you nailed it.
I for one would spend the extra 100 and get the 5s(which I will)... no brainer. But... there are probably a significant portion that that $100 makes a difference. Time will tell.
Plus next year the price will drop after the new iphone... maybe.

Another 'tech site' asked its readers if they are the updating and if so which iphone would they get- ~59% 5s to ~3% 5c ~ (~35% will not upgrade) ... 5s is the huge winner for that un-scientific survey.

Pure opinion here....
While Jony is unapologetic (think about it, he had to say it... that says a lot), IMO, the 5C phone 'looks' like a Fisher-Price toy... something a Weeble would use. Yes other iphones where plastic, but the iP 4 set the bar so high on 'quality build/feel etc'. To go back...just seems a step back.
And the colors... its ok to have Pink and neon green etc.. to each their own. But how about some colors that are shifted in the palette(to dare I say 'normal'.. ok conservative.. alright boring ), a dark blue for example, ... something to compliement these Weeble colors.

iPhone 5c. For the colorful.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #153 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then...

It's probably more the idea of going back to plastic. The Macbook moved from plastic to metal. If the Air moved from metal to plastic, it would seem like a downgrade, same with the MBP, Mac Pro and iMac. Metal and glass set them apart from the competition. The G4 towers used to be plastic as did the iMacs and Pismo laptops and the new designs feel more premium quality. The original iPhone did downgrade but it also went from very chunky grey metal to very slim shiny plastic and had performance upgrades. The 5 has gone from slim metal back to thicker plastic and there's no performance change from the 5 to 5C.

One of the reviews of the 5C said that it feels more like ceramic the way they did it. Part of what makes plastic feel cheap is it being hollow behind. Not having a curved back allows them to pack the components tightly to lessen the chances of any gaps. The biggest problem with plastic has always been that it cracks and this plagued Apple's plastic laptops with cracked palm rests. The unibody design helped as it reduced any flex but they still got the crack lines in them at stress points:



Part of the reason I prefer the metal designs is that no matter how much damage you put it through, it would never really appear broken. Something that's cracked looks broken, something that has a few dents or scratches just looks used. This was an issue with the iPhone 4's glass back but that usually breaks a different way e.g by a severe impact damage. The 5C at least has a reinforced port to prevent the cracking caused on the 3G/3GS but the sides have no metallic protection.
post #154 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Oh FFS, blah blah blah blah blah. "If only Apple did this they would rule the world."

Do you have any idea how pedantic, dated, and uninformed this gibberish sounds to other people?

Everyone knows how to run Apple better than Tim Cook. Put the complainers in charge: it's the first step to guaranteeing the company's doom.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #155 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls View Post

Not in English. In French, yes. We are in USA.

You might be, but 95% of the worlds population aren't
post #156 of 179
Plastic. It's cheap.

And it's needed for Apple to get a new phone into the $99 on contract category.

It's also needed for manufacturing volume.

The 5 saw manufacturing struggles keep the phone out of many hands at launch for months.

Now they have perfected the manufacturing, so it makes sense to go the "5S" route.

But the plastic phone does a number of things:

1) It distinguishes visually and physically the two markets: kind of like the old Macs - pro and consumer level. Better understood as high end and not so high end.

2) It aids the ease of manufacturing. Being Apple, they won't just do what everyone else does. They step it up. But in the end, it's still "just plastic" and the real reason for it is the cost and ease of manufacturing.

3) It gives Apple investors confidence in a return to more respectable profit margins.

4) It gives end users a much greater variety and easier accessibility.

5) It fulfills the same role as simply selling old phones at a discount, while being marketed as NEW and fresh.

It's a grreat move.

Ultimately, I and many others really hoped for a larger screen. Not stupid large like a note or something. but larger than what the 5S is.

I imagine that comes with the 6.

However, with iOS 7, a rip-snorting CPU, the Touch ID security, etc.

They have really established themselves as the daddy of all other smartphone manufacturers.

The game has changed once again.

Just give it a bigger screen and no one has any reason whatsover to want anything else.
post #157 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocseg View Post

..."effective plastic smartphone with a "premium" feel"...

Sure it's plastic. But it has that "premium" feel. See the difference?

Maybe it looks better in real, but on pictures it really looks cheap plastic to me. Maybe the shape, maybe the gloss. Wondering if non-gloss would look better..?
post #158 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

People seem to forget that not long ago all iPhones were plastic. I loved the 3GS. The contour of the plastic back was very ergonomic.  No one called the 3G or 3GS cheap back then... 


 

I'm still using my 3Gs. Again, based on available photos - 5c plastic back just looks cheaper, uglier to me than 3Gs. Maybe because of the shape, 3Gs had nice curve while 5c is basically boxy flat. Maybe it is the metal frame on 3Gs, or metallic logo and other info on the back; I think those elements have added nice premium touch to plastic. Which is missing on 5c.
post #159 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
Maybe it looks better in real, but on pictures it really looks cheap plastic to me. Maybe the shape, maybe the gloss. Wondering if non-gloss would look better..?

 

The shape is dictated by function: bigger batteries, straighter edges for taking pictures (e.g. bracing the phone against a wall, etc.)

 

Non-gloss would be a nightmare: looks nice for about 5 days, after which greasy fingers would make it look part-gloss, part-matte, part-just-plain-greasy-dirty. Just think of what happens to egg-shell wall paint in conjunction with small kids who touch the wall with food on their fingers, and you know how a non-gloss iPhone would look like a few days after unpacking...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
I'm still using my 3Gs. Again, based on available photos - 5c plastic back just looks cheaper, uglier to me than 3Gs. Maybe because of the shape, 3Gs had nice curve while 5c is basically boxy flat. Maybe it is the metal frame on 3Gs, or metallic logo and other info on the back; I think those elements have added nice premium touch to plastic. Which is missing on 5c.

 

The only thing that made the 3g/3gs look "more premium" was the staid black& white "non-color" scheme. But the whole point of the 5c is to be the fun phone, because the stuck up premium phone snobs are supposed to buy the 5s.

There's a reason why Smart-Car (made by Mercedes) looks different than an A-class Mercedes (not sold in the US) which looks different than a C-class Mercedes, which looks different from an E-class Mercedes which again looks different from an S-class mercedes.

To stick with the car analogy: everyone was expecting the iPhone 5c to be a SmartCar, but it turned out to be equivalent to an A-to-C-class Mercedes, while the 5s is equivalent to an E-to-S-class Mercedes.

Similarly people forget that Mercedes outside the US isn't a "premium" car manufacturer, but instead they make everything from SmartCar to dump trucks, delivery vans, city busses and police cars. What they don't make (and what for that matter no German car manufacturer makes) is cheap shit. Neither does Apple. In some ways, Apple is the most German of US companies these days.

post #160 of 179
Until now, Apple has never intentionally made a less capable phone. Every model (aside from storage capacity) has been the most capable phone they could make at the time it was designed.

Since the 3GS, Apple has always offered the previous flagship model at a discount. Nothing about the previous model was changed and certainly no capability was removed. The previous model didn't have the capabilities of the current flagship model simply because the capabilities were not available when the previous model was designed.

I think this new direction apple is taking will be more obvious when the next 2 models of iPhone are released. Right now, the iPhone 5c is just as capable as the iPhone 5. The only difference is the exterior. I think when the next models of iPhone are released, you will find that some capabilities of the current iPhone 5s will not be passed on to the next non-flagship phone. For example, perhaps Touch ID will only be available on whatever flagship phone is selling at the time. Meaning the only way to have Touch ID is to buy the current flagship phone, since the previous flagship phone will no longer be available.

I'm not sure what the cost difference is for Apple on the iPhone 5 vs the iPhone 5c. I understand that plastic is probably cheaper, but you have to also consider the additional cost of redesign and additional manufacturing. The iPhone 5 is a turnkey product. It's cost of design and new manufacturing has already been filled.

I think the biggest cost advantage for Apple will be in future phones. I think this is simply laying the ground work. You will never again be able to buy last years model. And the current cheaper phone may end up being less capable then the previous flagship phone.
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