or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma - Page 5

post #161 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by J5fanclub View Post

Until now, Apple has never intentionally made a less capable phone. Every model (aside from storage capacity) has been the most capable phone they could make at the time it was designed.

Since the 3GS, Apple has always offered the previous flagship model at a discount. Nothing about the previous model was changed and certainly no capability was removed. The previous model didn't have the capabilities of the current flagship model simply because the capabilities were not available when the previous model was designed.

I think this new direction apple is taking will be more obvious when the next 2 models of iPhone are released. Right now, the iPhone 5c is just as capable as the iPhone 5. The only difference is the exterior. I think when the next models of iPhone are released, you will find that some capabilities of the current iPhone 5s will not be passed on to the next non-flagship phone. For example, perhaps Touch ID will only be available on whatever flagship phone is selling at the time. Meaning the only way to have Touch ID is to buy the current flagship phone, since the previous flagship phone will no longer be available.

I'm not sure what the cost difference is for Apple on the iPhone 5 vs the iPhone 5c. I understand that plastic is probably cheaper, but you have to also consider the additional cost of redesign and additional manufacturing. The iPhone 5 is a turnkey product. It's cost of design and new manufacturing has already been filled.

I think the biggest cost advantage for Apple will be in future phones. I think this is simply laying the ground work. You will never again be able to buy last years model. And the current cheaper phone may end up being less capable then the previous flagship phone.

 

This is where it gets confusing.

 

Next September do they offer the 5 in place of the 4S, or is it the 5C? What then replaces the 5C? Does the 5S get dumped entirely?

 

Hmmmmmm...

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #162 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

This is where it gets confusing.

Next September do they offer the 5 in place of the 4S, or is it the 5C? What then replaces the 5C? Does the 5S get dumped entirely?

Hmmmmmm...

5C and 5S soldier on unchanged (5C potentially gets new colors).

iPhone 6 released with all the bells and whistles and bigger screen.
post #163 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


5C and 5S soldier on unchanged (5C potentially gets new colors).

iPhone 6 released with all the bells and whistles and bigger screen.

 

Where in the line-up are the 5C and 5S? What price? What chip? Does the new 5C get a different chip?

 

Is that a new 5C? No, it's an old 5C.

 

Oh, the new one has a better processor? No, it has a different color.

 

So, it's the same but a different color? Yes.

 

What's the price? They're both the same price.

 

???????

 

or

 

What's the price? The old one is free with a contract and the new one is $99 with a contract.

 

But only the color is different? Yes.


Edited by island hermit - 9/11/13 at 6:05pm
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #164 of 179

There is a long history in industrial design of using plastic as a valuable, respected material instead of just a cheap material.  The high end use of plastic is somewhat of a niche in the design world and thus not well known to the masses.  A small Italian company called Kartell has been making high style plastic furniture products since the 60s.  When the original gumdrop iMac was released there were some who said it looked like a Kartell product.  Kartell had made similarly colored plastic products for many years.

 

So yes the 5c is plastic.  That doesn't mean it's bad or cheap, as the assembly video has shown us.  But it does go against the grain as far as the masses are concerned.  They have been taught for decades that plastic always means cheap and even inferior products.  And that just isn't true.

post #165 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Where in the line-up are the 5C and 5S? What price? What chip? Does the new 5C get a different chip?

I'm curious of the same, but I was thinking maybe the 5C will only get hardware updates every 2 years (ie nothing until the 6C). I can't see them making a 5CS.

I'm assuming the 5C drops in price $100 and the 5S probably drops in price as well with the 6 moving to the $199 slot.
post #166 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


I'm curious of the same, but I was thinking maybe the 5C will only get hardware updates every 2 years (ie nothing until the 6C). I can't see them making a 5CS.

I'm assuming the 5C drops in price $100 and the 5S probably drops in price as well with the 6 moving to the $199 slot.

 

But wouldn't that mean that the 5C drops out of the line-up at some point. I've never seen Apple do a hardware update on an old version of the iPhone. Could be what you are saying. That would be a different strategy for Apple... like this year.

 

Now I'm looking forward to seeing what they are going to do with the line-up next year. My Wife's iPhone (4S) contract is up next October.

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #167 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

But wouldn't that mean that the 5C drops out of the line-up at some point. I've never seen Apple do a hardware update on an old version of the iPhone. Could be what you are saying. That would be a different strategy for Apple... like this year.

Now I'm looking forward to seeing what they are going to do with the line-up next year. My Wife's iPhone (4S) contract is up next October.

5C would drop out and be replaced by a 6C in 2 years sold alongside the 6S.

The "C" models can help give Apple a bump during the less flashy "S" year model updates. Primary updates would need an entire keynote devoted to the new device design so no time or need for "C" updates then.

Apple already does this with the Touch. Major revision every 2 years. New colors on years lacking a hardware update. I kind of expect te same for the "C".

Anything more would make the lineup too confusing.
post #168 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


5C would drop out and be replaced by a 6C in 2 years sold alongside the 6S.

The "C" models can help give Apple a bump during the less flashy "S" year model updates. Primary updates would need an entire keynote devoted to the new device design so no time or need for "C" updates then.

Apple already does this with the Touch. Major revision every 2 years. New colors on years lacking a hardware update. I kind of expect te same for the "C".

Anything more would make the lineup too confusing.

 

2 years between updates in the C line.

 

Hmmm... that seems like a stretch to me... but who knows.

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #169 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

2 years between updates in the C line.

Hmmm... that seems like a stretch to me... but who knows.

It is for the colorful.

They'd be happier with new color options than spec bumps.

Apple may update processors but then the nomenclature gets messy and confusing quickly.

That's why I postulated they could simply drop the price add a few more colors and leave it as is.

But with iOS 7 and presumably 8 going 64 bit maybe that won't be an option and they'll have to make a 5CS?
post #170 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

5C would drop out and be replaced by a 6C in 2 years sold alongside the 6S.

The "C" models can help give Apple a bump during the less flashy "S" year model updates. Primary updates would need an entire keynote devoted to the new device design so no time or need for "C" updates then.

Apple already does this with the Touch. Major revision every 2 years. New colors on years lacking a hardware update. I kind of expect te same for the "C".

Anything more would make the lineup too confusing.

Or maybe next year we'll see the 5sC or 5Cs, ummm you're right it is confusing. I think the 5ss (using the small s makes it weird to make plural) are gorgeous and I'd hate to see Apple change them to plastic next year.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #171 of 179

Most likely scenario will be for next year

6S : $199

6C : $99 (Internals of 5S)

5C: 1c

 

Year After:

7S : $199

7C : $99 (Internals of 6S)

6C: 1c

 

This way, they will move both cheaper models to Plastic version to compare them to androids and keep Only premium version as metal.

post #172 of 179
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post
Most likely scenario will be for next year

6S : $199

6C : $99 (Internals of 5S)

5C: 1c

 

How does that make sense? It would be 5SC. 6C is the cheap version of the 6. There won't be a 6S until there is a 6.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply
post #173 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

How does that make sense? It would be 5SC. 6C is the cheap version of the 6. There won't be a 6S until there is a 6.

 

That's what I believe will change going forward.

Apple will move to direction of calling new version number for each year to make sure its version looks latest.

Based on this years 5S and 5C, I don't think apple will have 6 for next year and 6s for year after.

That way, each year will look like two new models. one high end and one mid range.

post #174 of 179

Most of people have wrong perception about Plastic. What they always think is..... Plastic = Cheap. Maybe the majority plastic products look cheap and have low built quality so that it gives a general cheap-looking impression. to most of you.  But it is absolutely wrong.

 

Do you think Dyson Vacuum Cleaners look cheap? How about Herman Miller's Aeron Chair,  Beat's Solo Headphone, Braun Shavers and Allan Miki Glasses?  In fact, They are the best products in the exiting market, selling at higher price and even never look cheap.

 

But in reality, they sold not much in quantity because they only serve for the people who really love and affordable to buy them.

 

Guys, if you think you don't like the new iPhone 5C/5S or feel too expensive to you, just simply don't buy it.


Edited by KC_150 - 9/11/13 at 9:07pm
post #175 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


It's probably more the idea of going back to plastic. The Macbook moved from plastic to metal. If the Air moved from metal to plastic, it would seem like a downgrade, same with the MBP, Mac Pro and iMac. Metal and glass set them apart from the competition. The G4 towers used to be plastic as did the iMacs and Pismo laptops and the new designs feel more premium quality. The original iPhone did downgrade but it also went from very chunky grey metal to very slim shiny plastic and had performance upgrades. The 5 has gone from slim metal back to thicker plastic and there's no performance change from the 5 to 5C.

One of the reviews of the 5C said that it feels more like ceramic the way they did it. Part of what makes plastic feel cheap is it being hollow behind. Not having a curved back allows them to pack the components tightly to lessen the chances of any gaps. The biggest problem with plastic has always been that it cracks and this plagued Apple's plastic laptops with cracked palm rests. The unibody design helped as it reduced any flex but they still got the crack lines in them at stress points:



Part of the reason I prefer the metal designs is that no matter how much damage you put it through, it would never really appear broken. Something that's cracked looks broken, something that has a few dents or scratches just looks used. This was an issue with the iPhone 4's glass back but that usually breaks a different way e.g by a severe impact damage. The 5C at least has a reinforced port to prevent the cracking caused on the 3G/3GS but the sides have no metallic protection.

The crack that you see is the result of poor engineering. When designing plastic components you avoid sharp corners to minimize cracking. Sharp corner is the weakest point and perfect starting point for cracking. You do not have that issue (not to same extend anyway) when part is made in metal. Obviously, whoever design, and worst, approved this part has no experience in plastics.

post #176 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post
 

There is a long history in industrial design of using plastic as a valuable, respected material instead of just a cheap material.  The high end use of plastic is somewhat of a niche in the design world and thus not well known to the masses.  A small Italian company called Kartell has been making high style plastic furniture products since the 60s.  When the original gumdrop iMac was released there were some who said it looked like a Kartell product.  Kartell had made similarly colored plastic products for many years.

 

So yes the 5c is plastic.  That doesn't mean it's bad or cheap, as the assembly video has shown us.  But it does go against the grain as far as the masses are concerned.  They have been taught for decades that plastic always means cheap and even inferior products.  And that just isn't true.

As long as it is done by others. Samsung comes to mind

post #177 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

With all the effort they put into it and the price they decided on, I'm surprised they didn't simply use iPod Touch grade anodized aluminum for the shell.

I see no benefit to the use of plastic considering Apple likely intended all along to price the device at $550.

If you think $550 is expensive you should check out some of the international prices.

Their use of plastic is also about future positioning. They are not just concerned about selling this device but the next one. From September 2014 the iPhone 5c will be the lowest tier option in most countries. Anodised aluminium in brighter colours could very well be a selling point for a future model.
post #178 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

With all the effort they put into it and the price they decided on, I'm surprised they didn't simply use iPod Touch grade anodized aluminum for the shell.

I see no benefit to the use of plastic considering Apple likely intended all along to price the device at $550.

If you think $550 is expensive you should check out some of the international prices.

Their use of plastic is also about future positioning. They are not just concerned about selling this device but the next one. From September 2014 the iPhone 5c will be the lowest tier option in most countries. Anodised aluminium in brighter colours could very well be a selling point for a future model.

 

People who think about plastic in terms of price haven't understood. Plastic is more flexible in terms of color, shape, etc.

More importantly it's about manufacturing speed. The iPhone 5 had significant supply constraints due to the speed at which it could be manufactured. You can't expand your market and keep selling more devices if you rely on time consuming CNC milling for your manufacturing.

Further, you don't understand Asia, or for that matter, much of the fashion world. Some geeks get a hard on about CNC milled solid aluminum. But there are more non-geeks that fret about their phone not matching the color of their car, hand-bag, etc.

Did you ever pay attention to the (to my taste) garish colors of iPhone shells that sell like hotcakes?

So the point is, if all these PLASTIC shells for the ALUMINUM iPhone sell, just such that people can color up their phone, why the heck would Apple not just make a colorful plastic phone in the first palace?

Further, the people who bitch about the price: the iPhone 5c is better than the iPhone 5 in many ways: better radio, better battery, more colors. The price difference between plastic and aluminum is maybe a couple of bucks, not a major cost factor, but a major TIME factor. So if the iPhone 5 was worth the money, then the iPhone 5c is certainly worth the money, because it's priced like "last year's model"while being an upgraded device in a slightly cheaper case. So what's the problem? You get some more in terms of electronics and a tiny bit less in terms of the physical shell, but you get the choice of color and are more fashionable. 

If anything, then the iPhone 5s is too cheap, but Apple is likely willing to take lower margins on the probably supply limited 5s because they can make the margins on the mass produceable 5c.

Analysts have it totally wrong, because the 5c is what will give them the margins, not the 5s.

post #179 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

People who think about plastic in terms of price haven't understood. Plastic is more flexible in terms of color, shape, etc.
More importantly it's about manufacturing speed. The iPhone 5 had significant supply constraints due to the speed at which it could be manufactured. You can't expand your market and keep selling more devices if you rely on time consuming CNC milling for your manufacturing.
Further, you don't understand Asia, or for that matter, much of the fashion world. Some geeks get a hard on about CNC milled solid aluminum. But there are more non-geeks that fret about their phone not matching the color of their car, hand-bag, etc.
Did you ever pay attention to the (to my taste) garish colors of iPhone shells that sell like hotcakes?
So the point is, if all these PLASTIC shells for the ALUMINUM iPhone sell, just such that people can color up their phone, why the heck would Apple not just make a colorful plastic phone in the first palace?
Further, the people who bitch about the price: the iPhone 5c is better than the iPhone 5 in many ways: better radio, better battery, more colors. The price difference between plastic and aluminum is maybe a couple of bucks, not a major cost factor, but a major TIME factor. So if the iPhone 5 was worth the money, then the iPhone 5c is certainly worth the money, because it's priced like "last year's model"while being an upgraded device in a slightly cheaper case. So what's the problem? You get some more in terms of electronics and a tiny bit less in terms of the physical shell, but you get the choice of color and are more fashionable. 
If anything, then the iPhone 5s is too cheap, but Apple is likely willing to take lower margins on the probably supply limited 5s because they can make the margins on the mass produceable 5c.
Analysts have it totally wrong, because the 5c is what will give them the margins, not the 5s.

Another factor I thought about just now.

With all I the supply and production constraints on the 5s Apple will have an easy to produce alternative for iPhone buyers particularly those overseas.

I wonder how many people will settle for a 5c this weekend when 5s supplies dry up?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma