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Apple's iPhone 5c uses unique design, precision manufacturing to avoid 'plastic' stigma - Page 2

post #41 of 179

My Nokia 720 looks better, has a solid feel and is very well made. The plastic is matte and the whole thing looks much classier.  It could almost have been designed by Ive.

post #42 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls View Post

All those years!!!. Apple manufacturing process of injection molding and finishing in 40 years old and done but just anyone in this business.. No innovation there. Using "edge" gate method of delivering molten plastic to the cavity is the cheapest  and lowest end of part gating. No innovation there either. So my question is: what is the big deal???. It is still cheap plastic manufactured by cheap methods. BFD

Albeit it maybe technically true what you say (I wouldn't know as manufacturing isn't in my area of expertise), but I'd bet that when holding an iPhone 5C in your hand and examining it along side a mass produced plastic product using processes you mention, there will be a world of difference. Apple are justifiably proud of the quality of build and finish of all their products and sensibly use that in their marketing pieces.

You can rant all you wish about the methodology being ... 'cheap', and 'in [sic] 40 years old' ... ''and done but [sic] just anyone in this business' ... however, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so can you explain why these others' products feel cheap and shoddy for the most part and Apple's always feel so damned gorgeous. I refuse to ever put a case on my iPhones as I love the feel of them and the look as they were born. By the way, I have not a scratch on my iPhone after two years of being in my pockets, car seat bin, beach bag and so on ... Now that's quality!
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post #43 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

How is it better? The iPhone 5 would've been the same exact price regardless.
Product differentiation. If they kept the 5 but just priced it $100 cheaper than potential 5S owners might have opted for the 5 instead. Also it is possible that the 5 is still quite expensive to manufacture so this was a way to cut manufacturing costs and offer people something that looks different than last years model.
post #44 of 179
AI, I think I've said it was a "bi-spoke assembly," not a "bespoke assembly." The words go by quickly, but if you look at the accompanying picture it's pretty clear that it has two spokes, thus bi-spoke.
post #45 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


With all the effort they put into it and the price they decided on, I'm surprised they didn't simply use iPod Touch grade anodized aluminum for the shell.

I see no benefit to the use of plastic considering Apple likely intended all along to price the device at $550.

 

You're assuming the grade of aluminum makes a big difference to costs. Furthermore, do we know that iPod Touch indeed is made with a different grade of aluminum. Regardless of the grade of aluminum, it is quite apparent that the 5C is easier to assemble than the 5 (or 5S). 

 

More importantly, I think Apple's goal here is not to make a *cheap* iPhone. Instead, it is to make an alternate one that doesn't have the latest, greatest technology. They want it to stand out from the 5S in look and feel. Yes, it is cheaper but not cheap. That was never the goal.

post #46 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

How is it better? The iPhone 5 would've been the same exact price regardless.
 
Product differentiation. If they kept the 5 but just priced it $100 cheaper than potential 5S owners might have opted for the 5 instead. 

Indeed. It is no coincidence that they are throwing much more into the 5S than they did into the 4S. The upgrades in processor and camera are something one would have expected for the iPhone 6.

 

Make no mistake - the 5C is what they expect to sell the most. They want it to stand out in every way. They want consumers to see, feel two different iPhones.

post #47 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

My Nokia 720 looks better, has a solid feel and is very well made. The plastic is matte and the whole thing looks much classier.  It could almost have been designed by Ive.
What I find really interesting is those who were at the event and have had hands on time with the 5C seem to have a better impression of it than others. I'm not exaggerating when I say I didn't come across one hands on review that said the 5C looked or felt cheap. And lets face it, most tech sites are aren't Apple fanboys so they're not saying it because they have fanboy blinders on.
post #48 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


It's pre market, will probably come back a bit before the market opens. It's obviously down because the Gene Munster's of the world got it wrong when they thought Apple would do a super cheap phone.

 

And Apple told them where they could go with the cheap phone. Jony Ive and Phil Schiller called the iPhone 5C "unapologetically plastic". What they meant was this: Apple unapologetically refuses to do what analysts dictate.

 

I love it!


Edited by StruckPaper - 9/11/13 at 4:38am
post #49 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Apple can say anything it wants about using some special plastic, but the bottom line is everyone in the entire smartphone industry believes plastic is just plastic and they've already determined Apple to have jumped the shark with the iPhone 5C. Apple is sitting on close to $150 billion in reserve cash which no other tech company on the planet comes close to and this is what Apple's solution is. I don't think it makes much of a difference as long as the guts inside are of high-quality, but this whole plastic thing makes Apple look like a fraud and Apple loyalists look like fools for laughing at Samsung and the rest of the plastic Android smartphone makers.

I'm beginning to understand why Wall Street hates Apple with a passion. The company is just cutting far too many corners for its vast amount of wealth and is allowing companies with far less wealth to build products that are just as good in quality and probably better in specs. Apple should be building the finest smartphones on the planet without question. Apple is rapidly becoming the laughingstock of Wall Street and the smartphone industry. That's why the stock is so poorly valued and shareholders are being totally screwed.
Just go away.
post #50 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Lol, it's just plastic! lol.gif By the way look at AAPL price! $445!!! I guess the markets doesn't like too much this "extraordinaire plastic"!
If you hate Apple so much, why are you on this website?
post #51 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

It's pre market, will probably come back a bit before the market opens. It's obviously down because the Gene Munster's of the world got it wrong when they thought Apple would do a super cheap phone.

I was thinking [yet again] about this much discussed phenomenon last night. It occurs to me the tech media and Wall Street pundits are like children that peak at the hidden Christmas presents before they are wrapped by their parents only to be disappointed and sad on Christmas Day because there are no surprises.

Had nothing whatsoever been leaked in advance and dissected ad nauseam already, yesterday would have been full of squealing delight. Instead everyone hoped for 'One more thing' to be unwrapped to delight them. When it didn't appear they go their rooms and sulk and AAPL flails due to lack of excitement about 'a new and ground breaking technology that will disrupt a whole field of technology, cause a tectonic paradigm shift or allow granny to levitate.'

In fact yesterday was full of amazing stuff. The innovative advances Apple continue to make in the camera technology would have been staggering alone to a sane audience. I keep looking at my shelf full of thousands of dollars worth of Canon bodies, lenses (any one of which costs as much as a MacBook) and tons of accessories ... I sigh looking at what Apple can do in an iPhone and I keep trying to justify my Canon gear (this is for a hobby only). It is starting to feel a little like my experience with an equally expensive HiFi system that long since got donated in favor of iTunes match and earbuds for the most part.

As others here have said, Apple will have to come out with matter transfer and time travel to impress Wall Street and even then I'm sure they'd find something to bitch about.
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post #52 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

And Apple told them where they could go with the cheap phone. I love it!
I suppose Apple could have tempered expectations here, maybe leaked a few things to WSJ or Bloomberg. Basically Apple kept the same pricing structure they they've used before, it's just instead of keeping last years model they redesigned it. Unfortunatly the expectation got out there that "C" stood for a cheap price, when it really stood for color. Time will tell if this was a mistake on Apple's part. But we all know had Apple gone the cheap route it would have impacted margins and profits and Wall Street would have dumped the stock for that reason. What Wall Street wants with Apple - cheaper prices but still maintaining high margins and profits - is totally unrealistic.
post #53 of 179
I just want to know what idiot signed off on this:

post #54 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I see that Constabe Odo is still confusing Apple's architectural statement in plastic and metal with Samsung's lazy use of plastic that reaembles an insect's carapace. Couldn't be more different.

 

I think he's simply baiting people to respond. Why fall for it again and again?

post #55 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I suppose Apple could have tempered expectations here, maybe leaked a few things to WSJ or Bloomberg. Basically Apple kept the same pricing structure they they've used before, it's just instead of keeping last years model they redesigned it. Unfortunatly the expectation got out there that "C" stood for a cheap price, when it really stood for color. Time will tell if this was a mistake on Apple's part. But we all know had Apple gone the cheap route it would have impacted margins and profits and Wall Street would have dumped the stock for that reason. What Wall Street wants with Apple - cheaper prices but still maintaining high margins and profits - is totally unrealistic.

 

It will not be a mistake. Sure, the stock is being punished a bit. But who cares! 

 

It's fun watching analysts eat crow. This is almost the same as when analysts were insisting that Apple needed to come up with a sub-$1000 netbook. And Apple refused. The iPhone 5C, more than anything else in the last two years, shows that the old "unapologetic" spirit is alive and well in Cupertino.

post #56 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Jony Ive and Phil Schiller called the iPhone 5C "unapologetically plastic". What they meant was this: Apple unapologetically refuses to do what analysts dictate.

I love it!
i took that to mean Apple isn't ashamed to do plastic because they think they know how to do it right.
post #57 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

I think he's simply baiting people to respond. Why fall for it again and again?

As others have said ... 'The ignore list is our friend' ... 1smile.gif
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post #58 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

AI, I think I've said it was a "bi-spoke assembly," not a "bespoke assembly." The words go by quickly, but if you look at the accompanying picture it's pretty clear that it has two spokes, thus bi-spoke.

Spokes have nothing to do with it. Bespoke means tailor made.
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post #59 of 179

It's not just plastic, it's fine Corinthian plastic.

 

post #60 of 179
Plastic is just a material, it's a matter of how it's used. If a metal phone came along with the feel of an altoids box, it would also feel "cheap" and not premium, metal notwithstanding.

The issue with plastics for the most part is scratch resistance, which coatings like used on polycarbonate eye glass lenses can improve considerably, and recyclability with polycarbonate unlike many other plastics offers.
Besides that, plastic offer weight savings, color, radio transparency, shatter resistance, etc. all of which are good things.
As long as it's not plasticky in the sense of flimsy, it doesn't matter if it's plastic or not.
People don't get Apple and latch on to the wrong things.
"Better real plastic than fake wood" is a phrase I coined when explaining to interior construction people my preference for true materials: real wood, real glass, real metal, real plastic, real stone. No "metal look", "wood decor" or whatever other fake stuff people try to use in construction; Apple seems to follow a similar path.
post #61 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I just want to know what idiot signed off on this:


I'm tempted to suggest Roy Lichtenstein, but then again it could have been Stan Lee. 1biggrin.gif
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post #62 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I was thinking [yet again] about this much discussed phenomenon last night. It occurs to me the tech media and Wall Street pundits are like children that peak at the hidden Christmas presents before they are wrapped by their parents only to be disappointed and sad on Christmas Day because there are no surprises.

Had nothing whatsoever been leaked in advance and dissected ad nauseam already, yesterday would have been full of squealing delight. Instead everyone hoped for 'One more thing' to be unwrapped to delight them. When it didn't appear they go their rooms and sulk and AAPL flails due to lack of excitement about 'a new and ground breaking technology that will disrupt a whole field of technology, cause a tectonic paradigm shift or allow granny to levitate.'

In fact yesterday was full of amazing stuff. The innovative advances Apple continue to make in the camera technology would have been staggering alone to a sane audience. I keep looking at my shelf full of thousands of dollars worth of Canon bodies, lenses (any one of which costs as much as a MacBook) and tons of accessories ... I sigh looking at what Apple can do in an iPhone and I keep trying to justify my Canon gear (this is for a hobby only). It is starting to feel a little like my experience with an equally expensive HiFi system that long since got donated in favor of iTunes match and earbuds for the most part.

As others here have said, Apple will have to come out with matter transfer and time travel to impress Wall Street and even then I'm sure they'd find something to bitch about.

Stock now is down over $20 pre market. I guess I might be wrong about it coming back a bit before the market opens. The stock will get hammered today and for one reason: Wall Street wanted a cheap phone and didnt get it. And if Apple doesn't announce pre-order sales figures for the 5C (or they're not that great) the stock will tank even further.
post #63 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Stock now is down over $20 pre market. I guess I might be wrong about it coming back a bit before the market opens. The stock will get hammered today and for one reason: Wall Street wanted a cheap phone and didnt get it. And if Apple doesn't announce pre-order sales figures for the 5C (or they're not that great) the stock will tank even further.

Agreed. And yet, had there been a cheap phone, Wall Street would have hammered AAPL because of lower margins going forward .... 1oyvey.gif
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post #64 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

i took that to mean Apple isn't ashamed to do plastic because they think they know how to do it right.

Please come off it. Plastic is plastic, I personally have never had a problem with it but many here ridiculed other manufacturers for still using it, and some have stood their ground and criticize the use of plastic by Apple. If you thought it was crappy before yesterday it should still be crappy today.
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post #65 of 179
This is very simple:
5C - C stands for Children. In the US and Canada, most people are on 2-year contracts. So, 5C is half the price of 5S. Also, kids love colors and mistreat their gadgets. Getting them a corporate-looking 5S makes little sense.
5S - Most adults will go for 5S. Adults care about a better camera, new fitness app capabilities of the hardware, fingerprint security, and once Apple opens up the fingerprint commerce API to 3rd-party developers, the potential of the 5S becoming a true electronic wallet.

As for the Enterprise, there's now a clear differentiation between executive iPhones and worker bee iPhones. Workers (especially in the field) will be issued 5C. By the time enterprise security embraces the fingerprint sensor in leu of a password on the iPhone, the new generation of plastic iPhones will get the fingerprint sensor as well - it will be the 5S repackaged in the plastic shell and named 6C.
Edited by sirozha - 9/11/13 at 5:15am
post #66 of 179

This is Wall Street's Logic.....

 

Apple launched a plastic iPhone with same price structure, they say it is not cheap enough.

If Apple launched a cheaper plastic iPhone, they also say it is so cheap that will eat up profit margin.

 

No matter what todo, Apple always gets wrong!

post #67 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Please come off it. Plastic is plastic, I personally have never had a problem with it but many here ridiculed other manufacturers for still using it, and some have stood their ground and criticize the use of plastic by Apple. If you thought it was crappy before yesterday it should still be crappy today.
If plastic is plastic how come the Lumia design got great reviews while the Galaxy S3/4 didn't? I saw several hands on reviews of the 5C yesterday that basically said, "Samsung, this is how you do plastic". John Gruber in his initial impression said the 5C feels a lot better than the 3G/3GS did.
post #68 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iroh View Post

Your mom's still plastic

Go home Dad, you're drunk!
post #69 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed. And yet, had there been a cheap phone, Wall Street would have hammered AAPL because of lower margins going forward .... 1oyvey.gif
Apple can't win when Wall Street wants cheap products but high margins and huge profits.
post #70 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

All these people hating on plastic I guess forgot the 3G and 3GS were plastic. By all accounts the 5C has better build quality than either of those phones.

No
post #71 of 179
Sounds like what they do with lipstick - add some weight so it doesn't feel cheap. Wish Nintendo had done this with their new Wii U Touchscreen Controller.
post #72 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

No
No what?
post #73 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If plastic is plastic how come the Lumia design got great reviews while the Galaxy S3/4 didn't? I saw several hands on reviews of the 5C yesterday that basically said, "Samsung, this is how you do plastic". John Gruber in his initial impression said the 5C feels a lot better than the 3G/3GS did.

Because it's the design and not the actual plastic that's being done right.
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post #74 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Albeit it maybe technically true what you say (I wouldn't know as manufacturing isn't in my area of expertise), but I'd bet that when holding an iPhone 5C in your hand and examining it along side a mass produced plastic product using processes you mention, there will be a world of difference. Apple are justifiably proud of the quality of build and finish of all their products and sensibly use that in their marketing pieces.

You can rant all you wish about the methodology being ... 'cheap', and 'in [sic] 40 years old' ... ''and done but [sic] just anyone in this business' ... however, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so can you explain why these others' products feel cheap and shoddy for the most part and Apple's always feel so damned gorgeous. I refuse to ever put a case on my iPhones as I love the feel of them and the look as they were born. By the way, I have not a scratch on my iPhone after two years of being in my pockets, car seat bin, beach bag and so on ... Now that's quality!

It is not a "rant", it a knowledge that you do not posses. I have been in "plastic" business since 1974 so trust me in what I am saying. "Feel cheap" (see highlighted in red) is a relative term and what for you feels rich and luxurious for someone else might feel cheap and vice verse.  That is a main reason large consumer products companies conduct "focus group" meeting/session to determine what the end user perceive. I still have iPhone 3GS and no scratches even though I never had any cover on it. FYI: Polycarbonate is extremely good in scratch resistance and Apple is not the only one using it, so what good for the goose is good for the gander, right?. Or you going to argue that too.

post #75 of 179
So much for ENVIROMENTALLY FRIENDLY. Don't see this being easily recycled. Well at least the landfills will be colorful.
post #76 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie View Post


If you hate Apple so much, why are you on this website?

But I don't hate Apple! :D I don't like a lot of the things they do, like not making a 5 inch screen or NFC, but hate them? No. I understand they are greedy, but... Greed is good! Greed is the engine of the capitalistic world! And they do make good hardware. My iPhone 4 is a great phone! Except I'm not a crazy Apple fan, or an AAPL shareholder! And I'm here because I like being here! :D

post #77 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I just want to know what idiot signed off on this:

 
What's wrong with that, "non"? 
1) You'll be looking at the front most of the time, even when its on your desk, the back faces the desk
2) Your hand covers that
3) Nobody can see that when the phone is in your pocket
4) Who cares, as long as it doesn't say "penis"
5) If that bothers you, lose the case, use a sticker, its not released yet so you haven't bought one, buy a different case.
post #78 of 179

Where I live, the media talk about a low-cost iPhone. So, it seems that Apple sent the right message.

 

I'm following Apple news for a long time now. I remember how the first iMac, presented by S. Jobs, was dismissed because it did not have room for "floppy" (good adjective?) disks. In fact, even though with S. Jobs, many times people (Wall Street, fan, me....) were frustrated after an announcement because they (we) were expecting way too much.    

 

Without all the rumours about the price of the 5c, a lot of people (me first) would have been less frustrated. But, as with S. Jobs, Apple is Apple. They don't do cheap products and they don't care much about what may think Wall Street (and that's the reason Wall Street hates Apple) . Good news indeed. 

 

I won't rush to get one however. I'll wait until the December 3. In Canada, rules will change and be more favourable for consumers (possibility to end a 3-year contract after 2 years and other "goodies"). So, maybe a Christmas gift... 

post #79 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie View Post


Just go away.

 

When did TS have a sex change?

 

I always suspected...

post #80 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

So much for ENVIROMENTALLY FRIENDLY. Don't see this being easily recycled. Well at least the landfills will be colorful.

 

Plastics can be recycled, on your typical water bottle or any plastic product, look at its underside for the recycle mark, there is a number within the arrows, the number is the type of plastic used. Some plastics like plastic bags though, suck for recycling.

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