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Shares of Apple slide, analysts cut targets in disappointment over iPhone 5c pricing - Page 5

post #161 of 297

Even more sad than the fact that Apple's cheap phone costs the same as always, is that people defend this by flaunting how much money Apple is going to make.

When greed and profit are no longer celebrated, we'll finally be able to progress as a species and start taking care of each other instead of trying to pound each other into the ground.

post #162 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Last year we saw new iPads in October. I suspect we'll see the same this year. Apple isn't going to stomp on the iPhone launch with new iPads.

 

I agree with that. With the new iPhones being available on Sept 20th, sometime in October is when we can expect the new iPads.

 

I wonder if the iPad 5 is going to include Touch ID.

post #163 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Even more sad than the fact that Apple's cheap phone costs the same as always, is that people defend this by flaunting how much money Apple is going to make.
When greed and profit are no longer celebrated, we'll finally be able to progress as a species and start taking care of each other instead of trying to pound each other into the ground.

I guess you hate Starbucks and its 75% profit margins on coffee.
post #164 of 297

Apple should just go private

post #165 of 297
Swing and a miss, Cook, swing and a miss. Analysts were also bothered by the lack of preorder for the 5S, which seems to indicate inventory constraints that will ultimately cap supply well below demand, just like the iMac last year. Hard for these things to sell if apple can't even get them into stores.
post #166 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
 

Even more sad than the fact that Apple's cheap phone costs the same as always, is that people defend this by flaunting how much money Apple is going to make.

When greed and profit are no longer celebrated, we'll finally be able to progress as a species and start taking care of each other instead of trying to pound each other into the ground.

 

This is ridiculous!  Do you think creating and maintaining the best mobile OS in the world is easy?  Do you thinking have retail stores and REAL people to help you when your device has problems is without cost?  Or what about R&D for the next products?  All of this takes a TON OF MONEY. 

 

The other phone vendors spend ZERO on OS development and their customer service is crap.  And the R&D they spend is pitiful compared to Apple (Samsung does not count because their R&D is spread over thousand of products).  If you want cheap go buy a $50 android.  No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy an iPhone.

post #167 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


You didn't understand my post. A well worked app will need no code to handle different screen sizes. Adding art for retina was more work.


To those if you who don't understand the pricing madness here. It costs $100 to

a) upgrade an iPhone by 16g, or
b) get a new CPU, a 64 bit processor, a fingerprint sensor, a M7 chip etc. etc.

In other words people in a shop will often come in meaning to buy the 16G and end up with the 32G. I can't see why off contract buyers who can afford a plastic last years iPhone at 550 euro wouldn't upgrade to 650.

Or similar prices on contract ( an extra 5 euro a month ). It makes no sense.

 

Yes it does make sense.  As a business owner do you want a person to buy a $550 product or a $650 product if both had simular gross margins?  Of course the $650.  Pricing the 5C at $300-$450 would cause too much canibalization by buyers who can afford the 5S but want to save $200.  I'll tell you the truth, I was set on buying the 5C for $450 but now I'll gladly pay $650 for the 5S.

post #168 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Swing and a miss, Cook, swing and a miss. Analysts were also bothered by the lack of preorder for the 5S, which seems to indicate inventory constraints that will ultimately cap supply well below demand, just like the iMac last year. Hard for these things to sell if apple can't even get them into stores.

Perhaps it's an F U to Wall Street so they can't predict outrageous numbers so Apple can "fail" to deliver them.
post #169 of 297
Originally Posted by Cash907
Swing and a miss, Cook, swing and a miss. Analysts were also bothered by the lack of preorder for the 5S, which seems to indicate inventory constraints that will ultimately cap supply well below demand, just like the iMac last year. Hard for these things to sell if apple can't even get them into stores.

 

Shut up and go away.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #170 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zu Nim View Post
 

Scoff if you like, but Microsoft and Nokia have an interesting lineup and their market penetration is growing glacially. And it may become a glacier suffering from global warming.

 

Thanks for the permission, I will now go ahead and scoff.

 

Multiple studies have shown that more people move to iPhones after other "cheap" (meaning android and windows) smart phones, but very few move from iPhones to other smart phones.  In other words real world users are still moving to iPhones, whatever your claim and the other smartphone growth, almost all of which is by a single company, is growth from people who come from feature phones...

 

And will likely upgrade to Apple in time.

 

Now you can argue that nobody wants a finger print sensor, or new camera or whatever you want to complain about in the announcement.  But clearly they DO want the entire package.  And thus why Apple has money in the bank, and Microsoft is slowly going the way of the dinosaur.

 

Since about the only money MS makes is in office and preinstalled windows, and every iPhone/iPad is a potential lost sale to a company that is increasingly finding people can and in fact often prefer to do "computer" tasks on a tablet or phone, that revenue stream is seeming a bit drier everyday.   And a few of those lost sales are also increasing Mac sales.  Add a fingerprint security system to make iPhones that much more acceptable as company phones, and then add free office software (did you miss that in the announcement?) and MS is losing twice.

 

When new iPads are announced next month, with the same A7 cpu, or even more cores, MS will become increasingly desperate to catch the mobile boat that people who aren't blind can see they already missed.

 

Maybe they can produce another stillborn tablet or buy another failed company.  That will get them there...

 

Yeah, scoffing is not the half of it.  The MS team still has the trophy from the championship from years ago, but they forgot to even field a team for the first half of this season.  Getting back to the playoffs is just no longer possible...

OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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post #171 of 297

Apple designs and builds these phones as if they were precision Rolex-style watches, but most folks I know immediately cover them up with a rubberized protective cover.  A gold vs. silver vs. "space gray" finish?  With my iFrogz cover, you wouldn't see any of it.

post #172 of 297
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post
Apple designs and builds these phones as if they were precision Rolex-style watches

 

They are.

 
…but most folks I know immediately cover them up with a rubberized protective cover.

 

Naked is still best.

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post #173 of 297

Hah!  An iPhone requires far more precision than any mere watch...

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post #174 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

AAPL, under Cook & Co, can't get a darn thing right! He is the Steve Balmer/Jerry Yang of Apple. And what the hell is with those yucky colors? Is Jony Ives color blind? Here we are back in the mid $400s and sinking thanks to Cook's management.

I'm presuming this is sarcasm.  Otherwise, "caput tuum in ano est" ;-)

post #175 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post
 

Hah!  An iPhone requires far more precision than any mere watch...

 

Exactly!  And people grumble about $550 mini-supercomputers but don't grumble about a $10k watch that uses tech from 1890?

post #176 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Swing and a miss, Cook, swing and a miss. Analysts were also bothered by the lack of preorder for the 5S, which seems to indicate inventory constraints that will ultimately cap supply well below demand, just like the iMac last year. Hard for these things to sell if apple can't even get them into stores.

 


So should Apple not have introduced Touch ID because of possible supply constraints? Or should Cook be fired because he can't roll out the Touch ID on tens of millions of phones at launch?
post #177 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post
 

Now you can argue that nobody wants a finger print sensor, or new camera or whatever you want to complain about in the announcement.  But clearly they DO want the entire package.

 

Please don't ascribe to me things I've neither said nor implied. I didn't complain about the announcement, I gave examples of progress that was rote and uninspired - and expected, as most progress is that way. The iPhone 5 as a package was very good (my own opinion and proven by unit sales growth over its predecessor) and so the 5S, even with uninspired improvements, must be at least equally good.

 

[edited to correct premature posting, finished in post below]


Edited by Zu Nim - 9/11/13 at 3:22pm
post #178 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I guess you hate Starbucks and its 75% profit margins on coffee.

Pales in comparison to the profit margin on movie theater popcorn.
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
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post #179 of 297
Analyst are never happy. Had the price been announced at $299 they would have said Apple will no longer be profitable and to sell. On second thought it doesn't seem companies need to be profitable to have a growth stock (AMZN). You just need to have potential for the future. The problem for Apple is it doesn't discuss its vision for the future and that drives the stock crazy.
post #180 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Pales in comparison to the profit margin on movie theater popcorn.


What about bottled water?
post #181 of 297
Well, they had to come up with SOME excuse for driving the price down to allow buy-in, didn't they?
Hey, brokers have boat payments to make!
post #182 of 297

Sorry, I tried to hit preview on my last post and hit submit instead.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shen View Post
 

And thus why Apple has money in the bank, and Microsoft is slowly going the way of the dinosaur.

 

I generally agree about Microsoft, the company. But my point was that Windows Phone 8 was an interesting platform and Nokia had interesting products. Not that it would succeed, but that it is at least competitive enough to succeed better than it has. My personal opinion is that Windows improved markedly over the years (peaking with Windows 7), and with different market timing and partners, WP8 could have been more significant than it ever will be now and improved. Which goes back to building that ecosystem. WP8 doesn't really share ecosystem with Windows per se; you don't buy an app for WP8 and run it on Windows or vice-versa. Microsoft essentially has to build most of that ecosystem from scratch despite wanting to leverage their power in the desktop arena.

 

Regarding Mac sales, I believe they went down YoY. They're not increasing. (Checking sources, yes, 3.8M Macs sold in fiscal Q3 vs. 4M in the year prior.) But the whole desktop segment is shrinking, it's a question of relative destruction.

post #183 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

 

Here's the New World Order for Apple "analysts":

1. Analysts publish wildly varying predictions about upcoming Apple products, hoping for a random "hit."

2. Investors short AAPL because it's fashionable at the moment (the "herd mentality.")

3. Analysts blame Apple instead of apologizing for being completely wrong with their predictions.

4. Apple buys back AAPL at bargain-basement prices.

 

I was thinking the stock down turn in price was to allow them to purchase more stock (via stock retirement plan for e.g.) for themselves (individuals, not company), but I like your reasoning even better (#4 in your list)!

post #184 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
 

... investors was waiting for the one last thing that is a 5 inch iPhone.  Apple has missed a huge market which is every bigger than iPhone.  

Large phones make up only a fraction of the overall phone market. 

Yes there is demand for larger phones. No, that demand will never be 'bigger than the iPhone' market.

 

Today's drop was pure market manipulation. You get used to it as an AAPL holder.

Otherwise, why do you NEVER see this after any other manufacturer's product announcement?

post #185 of 297

ElFig2012, welcome to the Big Boys table at Appleinsider! If you haven't raised the ire of some of the Old-Timers here (relax, I refer to # of posts rather than age!) then you have probably not said anything interesting. Consider the verbal barrage a badge of honour, a rite of passage, a closed fist of respect. 

:-)  you must understand, product announcements really do get testosterone fizzing! I'm not sure whether AppleInsider has a motto, but given the tone of some comments I wouldn't be surprised if it were something like 'Loyalty or Death'  - easily espoused from behind a keyboard in Cyberspace.  ;-)

Let not your heart be  intimidated, once more unto the breach dear friend, once more... 

post #186 of 297

God forbid Apple should ever disappoint analysts. After all, it's really they who are responsible for Apple's success.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #187 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Bull. Munster understands mobile demand. You don't. He's basically saying that Apple is leaving both money and market share on the table. The baboonery in here doesn't matter - it's full of dolts who don't understand the market. The analysts and the market - the owners of the company - are selling.

What is with you dolts? Is there anything that apple would do that you would criticise?

This decision was wrong and they will probably reverse course and lower prices in the new year, possibly halting sales of the 4S.

 

LOL @ you people. The decision was not "wrong". Did you run the numbers?

post #188 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by gowhitestripes View Post

They set themselves up perfectly for next year.

Next year the iPhone 5C becomes $449.
The iPhone 5S becomes $549 and $649
and the iPhone 6 with a 4.5 inch screen becomes $649 upward.

Really a beautiful move.

- 5C = reworked from the iPhone 5 because of the iPhone 5's scratch problems and I think they wanted to change internals (China Mobile band?)

- 5S = Needed to keep the same form factor because of accessories and equipment that make these phones. Lots of innovation otherwise. Fingerprint sensor will be awesome.

- China Mobile = will come; they will ease into it

Only one thing lacking in iPhone innovation, the screen-size. That's it. Otherwise they did a fantastic job. None of this is easy.

 

people talking screen size clearly have not been paying attention.

Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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post #189 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post


Then keeping the 4S with both a different size display and a different connector makes little sense. An 8GB 5C could have been the free w/contract phone.

 

It also could have canibalized the shit out of the 16 GB model, making Apple a lot less money. The 4S is just unattractive enough to lure people up to the 16 GB / $99 price point, for nicer newer faster phone.

post #190 of 297

Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements.  It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC.  Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices.  Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.

post #191 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Yes it does make sense.  As a business owner do you want a person to buy a $550 product or a $650 product if both had simular gross margins?  Of course the $650.  Pricing the 5C at $300-$450 would cause too much canibalization by buyers who can afford the 5S but want to save $200.  I'll tell you the truth, I was set on buying the 5C for $450 but now I'll gladly pay $650 for the 5S.

 

I thought about this too and am planning to do the same. Good point.

post #192 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 

I like Jon Fortt point that the cheap iphone could be the watch. The same way people wanted Apple to make netbooks but instead came out with the ipad.

 

That being said, I wish they could offer a bigger screen model. I have no choice to renew my 4s for a Nexus 4 which better fits my needs.  at $250, its not a big risk and its going to be paid in 6 months on the money I save on the plan alone.

 

Get an LTE iPad mini: bigger screen for you and no expensive voice plan. Problem solved.

post #193 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowspark View Post
 

Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements.  It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC.  Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices.  Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.

 

A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.

iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.

Touch ID: Security, solved.

iOS 7

 

I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.

post #194 of 297

Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100.  This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins.  That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations.  Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.

 

Why is everyone confused?  Take off the blinders folks, they dropped the ball.

post #195 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post


What about bottled water?

 

The local outdoor amphitheater does not allow any drinks in then charges $6 for a bottle of water.

post #196 of 297

To quote Steve quoting Wayne Gretzky, in reference to analysts with a slight twist:

 

Quote:
 'I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been, nor where others seek to influence it to be.'
post #197 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

 

A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.

iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.

Touch ID: Security, solved.

iOS 7

 

I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.

 

Just wait till developers get ahold of the Touch ID and start integrating its capabilities into their apps.

post #198 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100.  This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins.  That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations.  Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.

Why is everyone confused?  Take off the blinders folks
, they dropped the ball.

Hope they dropped the ball on your head? When did Apple have a 40 pin connector? Those that buy the iPhone 4S will probably use it until it dies and couldn't care less about the accessories.
post #199 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post
 

Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100.  This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins.  That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations.  Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.

 

Why is everyone confused?  Take off the blinders folks, they dropped the ball.

 

Apple would never offer the iPhone5 for $500 of contract.  The phone is incredibly expensive to manufactuer.

post #200 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

 

A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.

iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.

Touch ID: Security, solved.

iOS 7

 

I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.

 

don't forget the M7 which is just like a Nike fuel band.  Amazing possibilities

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