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Shares of Apple slide, analysts cut targets in disappointment over iPhone 5c pricing - Page 6

post #201 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post
 

 

Just wait till developers get ahold of the Touch ID and start integrating its capabilities into their apps.

 

It is completely inaccessible to 3rd party apps at this time.

 

They're smart to start using it just for Apple purchases. If all goes well, and it proves itself (with a real world test of millions of users), then it will eventually open itself up to other payment possibilities.

 

Apple is smart, and knows staking their reputation on such a thing is bad idea, and they will control test it until they know it can't hurt them.

post #202 of 297

Analysts wanting Apple to lower their margins and increase volume productivity strikes me as having an ulterior motive; they want to drive Apple into a race to the bottom and break their stranglehold on profits. It will never happen.

post #203 of 297
Let's face it. The smartphone space is a mature market right now. No company has really done a great deal of wowing us lately.

No one said that the 5c would be so cheap and you really can't make money in a race to the bottom either.

Next year Apple will increase screen size, the A8 and M7 will enter a more utilized period because of them blazing a trail to 64 bit computing, camera will improve, and more features will be added to make that fingerprint scanner more useful and maybe split screen tech will be added.

Budget conscious folks will get the 4S just like they the 4 and made it a best seller.

ANALyst are just lining their pockets as usual.
Edited by Pujones1 - 9/11/13 at 1:58pm

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post #204 of 297

Icahn just bough more apple stock, the only reason he buys is if he think it is undervalue and he can force the company to change business practice to improve the price. Look Apple Icahn is coming after you. 

post #205 of 297
Re: Pricing of the 5C;

Here's an interesting post I read on another forum -- that may be the explanation for what Apple attempting to accomplish with the iPhone 5C:
Quote:
philvanallen
09/11/2013 11:32 AM PDT

I think the article is right, the 5c is now the main phone. Apple is using the 5c to throw down the gauntlet to the other phone companies - now the "normal" price for a contract phone is $100 instead of $200. The analysts may be missing this, but I bet Samsung and all the others are worried since Apple can grab a larger share and a lower price.

and another about the 5S:
Quote:
stsk
09/11/2013 11:03 AM PDT

No one seems to understand what the 64 bit processor does to the portable gaming market. I wouldn't want to be Nintendo or Sony right now...

Both from:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2048561/apples-neat-trick-why-the-iphone-5c-will-outsell-the-5s.html


The article is a good read -- as are the comments.

I miss having these kind of discussions on AI forums -- where, for the most, part the participants are polite, thoughtful and offer well-reasons (if differing) points of view.
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post #206 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Apple doesn't respond to rumors. If they did then they have to respond to all rumors including the truth.
And I suspect you're an idiot.
My suspicions have been proven correct. Forstall = Apple Maps 1.0. Apple release products when they are ready and not to Wall Street's timeline.
Apple won't officially respond to rumors, but they have ways of getting information out. Like a "yep" or "nope" from Jim Dalrymple.
post #207 of 297

Extremely disappointed. You don't have to be an 'analyst' to see to it.

 

People on this board said 'Apple would never make a cheap, plastic iPhone'  - it would damage Apple's premium, quality brand reputation. Of course they would never go low end, and race to the bottom. But expectations were of a cheaper model.

 

Now we have something far worse - the said cheaper plastic iPhone with last years technology, (in kid's colours). Except it does not have the one single advantage that everyone assumed a plastic iPhone would have. It's not any cheaper to buy. Apple wants the same amount of money for it as they have always done for last year's technology in a premium metal case.

 

Essentially Apple has taken the short term greed option. We can sell people a cheaper-to-make plastic version for the same price as we used to charge for a premium one. This will net a greater profit. But will not grow marketshare. And there is a cost to not growing marketshare. Survey after survey shows stronger brand loyalty to Apple than any other smartphone maker. Get people to buy their first iPhone, and the chances are their next phone will be an iPhone as well. And if they're looking for a tablet, what will they want? Starts with an 'i'. Bigger share of the market means more sales through iTunes. Kerching  - 30% on Apps and in App-content. Not sure what the margins on songs, video, TV series are, but they all add up.

 

I think iOS is brilliant. I want more people to discover it and use it. And thus contribute to the vibrancy of the eco-system. Apple is shooting itself in the foot - with it's pricing.

post #208 of 297
IMO, apple has had two years to come out with a larger screen for all of us that can hardly read the current size screens. While not really innovative it would have been far better received than just adding colors. Colors which by the way will be covered by cases. It's little things overlooked like this that IMO makes apple look like they can't keep up. Strange how a DoCoMo deal didn't help at all nor that they got a license in china! Octobers earning report needs to be good or apple plunges more!
post #209 of 297
Originally Posted by skleiniv View Post
It's little things overlooked like this that IMO makes apple look like they can't keep up.

 

The fact that you think Apple is overlooking something tells me you're overlooking something.

 

Who cares about the stock price? Apple going private would be great for them.

post #210 of 297
This is a game people. These fools know damn well those iPhone Cs will fly off the shelves this holiday season.
post #211 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Extremely disappointed. You don't have to be an 'analyst' to see to it.

People on this board said 'Apple would never make a cheap, plastic iPhone'  - it would damage Apple's premium, quality brand reputation. Of course they would never go low end, and race to the bottom. But expectations were of a cheaper model.

Now we have something far worse - the said cheaper plastic iPhone with last years technology, (in kid's colours). Except it does not have the one single advantage that everyone assumed a plastic iPhone would have. It's not any cheaper to buy. Apple wants the same amount of money for it as they have always done for last year's technology in a premium metal case.

Essentially Apple has taken the short term greed option. We can sell people a cheaper-to-make plastic version for the same price as we used to charge for a premium one. This will net a greater profit. But will not grow marketshare. And there is a cost to not growing marketshare. Survey after survey shows stronger brand loyalty to Apple than any other smartphone maker. Get people to buy their first iPhone, and the chances are their next phone will be an iPhone as well. And if they're looking for a tablet, what will they want? Starts with an 'i'. Bigger share of the market means more sales through iTunes. Kerching  - 30% on Apps and in App-content. Not sure what the margins on songs, video, TV series are, but they all add up.

You must be new to Apple if you have realize what Apple iPhones it has sold in the last few years.

This strategy worked with the iPod mini and the iPad mini. I see no reason why the 5S and 5C won't be #1 and #2.
post #212 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

The fact that you think Apple is overlooking something tells me you're overlooking something.

 

Who cares about the stock price? Apple going private would be great for them.

 

Who cares about the stock price?  Are you moronic?  Millions of people have their money tied up in this company and it affects them personally when the stock drops.  It's more important than your little hobby of blogging on this forum.  

post #213 of 297
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Who cares about the stock price?  Are you moronic?  Millions of people have their money tied up in this company and it affects them personally when the stock drops.

 

Shame. Maybe they should get off their hinders and actually do something about the idiots responsible for lying about Apple for months and then shorting the stock, huh.

 

Except they don't. So I guess they don't really care that much.

post #214 of 297

I love (or at least used to love) Apple for it's computers and software. For two decades Apple was so much ahead of its time. Apple had a massive influence on many industries. Most notably graphic design and printing (wysiwyg, postscript, first affordable laser printers, ...), the music industry and film making (well Final Cut Studio that is, not FCPX). And OK, iOS really is (or used to be) a great piece of interface design. But the way the mobile market is now defining Apples business and R&D strategies will become a massive problem. How come I know? In my drawer I still have my previous phones: 2 Nokia's, 3 Sony Ericsson's, 1 Motorrola and a few palm pilots. I bet the kids don't even remember some of these brands. And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?

post #215 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujones1 View Post

Let's face it. The smartphone space is a mature market right now. No company has really done a great deal of wowing us lately.

Maybe not, but the 5S comes pretty close. Twice the performance, new fingerprint detection, new motion coprocessor, better camera, etc. If that doesn't wow you, then your expectations are totally unreasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If Munster said that, he does not understand valuation. I doubt he said something like that.

While EPS can mathematically increase, that is only part of the pricing equation: Price = [P/E]×[EPS]

Lower margins ⇒ Lower expected ROIC ⇒ Lower P/E ratio. In other words, the valuation consequences of an incremental EPS increase can be negative if the margin is lower.

You're also ignoring a huge factor. The proposal was to sell the iPhone 5C at 15% margin. But you still have to subtract overheads from that. A 15% gross margin would amount to 5% net (their overheads are around 10% of sales). If they were off even a little bit, the EPS might not increase at all. So not only would the P/E drop, the EPS might stay the same, so the stock could drop a lot.
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post #216 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100.  This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins.  That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations.  Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.

Why is everyone confused?  Take off the blinders folks
, they dropped the ball.

Blinders? Illogical decision? Rail against the wind much?
When you produce a smartphone, you can decide to price it.

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post #217 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Extremely disappointed. You don't have to be an 'analyst' to see to it.

People on this board said 'Apple would never make a cheap, plastic iPhone'  - it would damage Apple's premium, quality brand reputation. Of course they would never go low end, and race to the bottom. But expectations were of a cheaper model.

Now we have something far worse - the said cheaper plastic iPhone with last years technology, (in kid's colours). Except it does not have the one single advantage that everyone assumed a plastic iPhone would have. It's not any cheaper to buy. Apple wants the same amount of money for it as they have always done for last year's technology in a premium metal case.

Essentially Apple has taken the short term greed option. We can sell people a cheaper-to-make plastic version for the same price as we used to charge for a premium one. This will net a greater profit. But will not grow marketshare. And there is a cost to not growing marketshare. Survey after survey shows stronger brand loyalty to Apple than any other smartphone maker. Get people to buy their first iPhone, and the chances are their next phone will be an iPhone as well. And if they're looking for a tablet, what will they want? Starts with an 'i'. Bigger share of the market means more sales through iTunes. Kerching  - 30% on Apps and in App-content. Not sure what the margins on songs, video, TV series are, but they all add up.

You must be new to Apple if you have realize what Apple iPhones it has sold in the last few years.

This strategy worked with the iPod mini and the iPad mini. I see no reason why the 5S and 5C won't be #1 and #2.

Slight correction: 5S and 5C will be #2 and #1.
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post #218 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Re: Pricing of the 5C;

Here's an interesting post I read on another forum -- that may be the explanation for what Apple attempting to accomplish with the iPhone 5C:
and another about the 5S:
Both from:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2048561/apples-neat-trick-why-the-iphone-5c-will-outsell-the-5s.html


The article is a good read -- as are the comments.

I miss having these kind of discussions on AI forums -- where, for the most, part the participants are polite, thoughtful and offer well-reasons (if differing) points of view.

 

Agreed on many points DA.

 

1.  The 5C will walk off the shelves.

2.  The 5S is the equivalent of the Tesla S sedan - high end, well-engineered, ground-breaking tech (bio-security, 64 bit . . .) the new standard for 'phones.

3.  A little more reasoned debate on AI, with a little less "one hand on the keyboard" enthusiasm would be nice ;-)

post #219 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Re: Pricing of the 5C;

Here's an interesting post I read on another forum -- that may be the explanation for what Apple attempting to accomplish with the iPhone 5C:
and another about the 5S:
Both from:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2048561/apples-neat-trick-why-the-iphone-5c-will-outsell-the-5s.html


The article is a good read -- as are the comments.

I miss having these kind of discussions on AI forums -- where, for the most, part the participants are polite, thoughtful and offer well-reasons (if differing) points of view.

 

I don't think anyone has qualms with the contract price of the 5C (ok maybe a few people here).

 

The main complaint is the unsubsidized price.

 

Would you personally pay $550 for a phone that looks like the 5C?

 

Add in the fact that in Europe and Asia the price is even more exorbitant and you'll understand why the backlash.

 

The 5C looks great and seems like a wonderful phone, but it's certainly not a flagship phone. I think it would have been better if Apple made 8GB and 16GB configs starting at $450 rather than the 16GB and 32GB they landed on. They could have kept their high margins (considering many in the US would upgrade to the 16GB model anyway) while having a better entry price for the 5C.

 

Yes people would still bitch and moan, but at least $450 is a better entry price for overseas where the iPhone 4 did well although it was an "old" phone. Imagine if there was a "new" phone at that price in Europe and Asia?

 

Another benefit? No more dedicated production line to the old 4/4S form factor which would save them money as well.

post #220 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

It is completely inaccessible to 3rd party apps at this time.

They're smart to start using it just for Apple purchases. If all goes well, and it proves itself (with a real world test of millions of users), then it will eventually open itself up to other payment possibilities.

Apple is smart, and knows staking their reputation on such a thing is bad idea, and they will control test it until they know it can't hurt them.

Who says an app can't ask the phone to authenticate someone. Just because app's won't have access directly, does not mean it won't be used. What they stated is that nothing can access the fingerprint data itself which is great. Big deal if all you can do is purchase apps and unlock your phone. Apple undersells the feature and developers take it to realms unknown.
post #221 of 297
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post
Who says an app can't ask the phone to authenticate someone. Just because app's won't have access directly, does not mean it won't be used. What they stated is that nothing can access the fingerprint data itself which is great. Big deal if all you can do is purchase apps and unlock your phone. Apple undersells the feature and developers take it to realms unknown.

 

Right. Exactly. Absolutely no app whatsoever deserves the right to know anything about the fingerprint or the user making it, BUT, there's no reason the app can't send a call to the OS requesting it to return a yes/no on said authentication. All the fingerprint stuff will be handled securely by the CPU, never entering the runtime of the app, and simply returning yes or no, with the app going from there.

post #222 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by glnf View Post

I love (or at least used to love) Apple for it's computers and software. For two decades Apple was so much ahead of its time. Apple had a massive influence on many industries. Most notably graphic design and printing (wysiwyg, postscript, first affordable laser printers, ...), the music industry and film making (well Final Cut Studio that is, not FCPX). And OK, iOS really is (or used to be) a great piece of interface design. But the way the mobile market is now defining Apples business and R&D strategies will become a massive problem. How come I know? In my drawer I still have my previous phones: 2 Nokia's, 3 Sony Ericsson's, 1 Motorrola and a few palm pilots. I bet the kids don't even remember some of these brands. And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?

"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"

Good question!

I think I have a better answer:

Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.

Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...
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post #223 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Essentially Apple has taken the short term greed option. We can sell people a cheaper-to-make plastic version for the same price as we used to charge for a premium one. This will net a greater profit. But will not grow marketshare.

They might be transitioning to a two phone setup. With better margins on the plastic models, they can afford to bring the price down when the demand dies down.

This year, it's 4S, 5C and 5S. Next year, they can drop the 4S and bring the 5C in at the $450 entry point and have the iPhone 6 at $550. The following year, they'd have 6C and 6S. By the time they've settled into the two phone setup, they can just call them iPhone and iPhone C.

The cost of the parts will lower and they'll squeeze margins down again to avoid lowering units shipped YoY. As Tim said in the past, they have two special buttons inside Cupertino and they just need to push them to make the most units in any given category. They are kept hidden away in case anyone falls asleep or trips and hits them by accident. When the market demands that they push for more volume, they'll hit the buttons.

People are often under the impression that they aren't already shipping in volume because of how many phones Android is reported to be shipping. Both Google and Apple have announced their device shipments: Android has 1 billion activations, Apple will have sold 700 million units next month. There's not much between them when you think Apple is one company and Android is multiple companies.

Apple is only second in shipment volume to Samsung in the entire smartphone industry and the only reason for that is because Samsung ships lower-end smartphones, which eats into their profit margins. Apple outsells Nokia in smartphones by about 6:1 and people keep telling Apple to push for more volume. They'll do it when the market slows down.
post #224 of 297

All of this brought to us by the same crooks that gave us sub-prime mortgage backed securities and a recession that isn't over even still.

post #225 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

...
There's not much between them when you think Apple is one company and Android is multiple companies.
...

And that is the point in all these discussions.
post #226 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Who cares about the stock price?  Are you moronic?  Millions of people have their money tied up in this company and it affects them personally when the stock drops.  It's more important than your little hobby of blogging on this forum.  

I have stock and the drop only affects me if I sell it. Otherwise it's just the market playing stupid. If you can't handle it, stick to bonds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I don't think anyone has qualms with the contract price of the 5C (ok maybe a few people here).

The main complaint is the unsubsidized price.

Would you personally pay $550 for a phone that looks like the 5C?

Add in the fact that in Europe and Asia the price is even more exorbitant and you'll understand why the backlash.

The 5C looks great and seems like a wonderful phone, but it's certainly not a flagship phone. I think it would have been better if Apple made 8GB and 16GB configs starting at $450 rather than the 16GB and 32GB they landed on. They could have kept their high margins (considering many in the US would upgrade to the 16GB model anyway) while having a better entry price for the 5C.

Yes people would still bitch and moan, but at least $450 is a better entry price for overseas where the iPhone 4 did well although it was an "old" phone. Imagine if there was a "new" phone at that price in Europe and Asia?

Another benefit? No more dedicated production line to the old 4/4S form factor which would save them money as well.

Cry me a river. If someone can't afford it, go get a cheapie Android. I can't afford a BMW so perhaps they should make one for me at say $20,000.
post #227 of 297
Price is too high with all the plastic...and too close in price to the higher end set. I don't get the point of the C at this price.
post #228 of 297
Originally Posted by TheUndertow View Post
Price is too high with all the plastic...and too close in price to the higher end set. I don't get the point of the C at this price.

 

Were you similarly baffled at the point of the iPhone 4S last year? Bamboozled by the iPhone 4 the year before that? Confounded by the iPhone 3GS three years ago?

post #229 of 297
I don't see why every one is so down on the new iPhones, coming from a iPhone 4 it looks like a hell of a deal. That's what I paid for my iphone three years ago with 2 year contract. Plus your going to give me 60 + dollars in software, a finger print scanner, 64 bit processor, Siri, better camera, etc. the normal person will be very happy with this phone.
post #230 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Re: Pricing of the 5C;


Here's an interesting post I read on another forum -- that may be the explanation for what Apple attempting to accomplish with the iPhone 5C:

and another about the 5S:

Both from:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2048561/apples-neat-trick-why-the-iphone-5c-will-outsell-the-5s.html



The article is a good read -- as are the comments.


I miss having these kind of discussions on AI forums -- where, for the most, part the participants are polite, thoughtful and offer well-reasons (if differing) points of view.

I don't think anyone has qualms with the contract price of the 5C (ok maybe a few people here).

The main complaint is the unsubsidized price.

Would you personally pay $550 for a phone that looks like the 5C?

Add in the fact that in Europe and Asia the price is even more exorbitant and you'll understand why the backlash.

The 5C looks great and seems like a wonderful phone, but it's certainly not a flagship phone. I think it would have been better if Apple made 8GB and 16GB configs starting at $450 rather than the 16GB and 32GB they landed on. They could have kept their high margins (considering many in the US would upgrade to the 16GB model anyway) while having a better entry price for the 5C.

Yes people would still bitch and moan, but at least $450 is a better entry price for overseas where the iPhone 4 did well although it was an "old" phone. Imagine if there was a "new" phone at that price in Europe and Asia?

Another benefit? No more dedicated production line to the old 4/4S form factor which would save them money as well.

I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!

If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.

If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.
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post #231 of 297
Bottom line, people made some easy money with the stock. But the brand still takes a beating, funny world.
post #232 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Shame. Maybe they should get off their hinders and actually do something about the idiots responsible for lying about Apple for months and then shorting the stock, huh.

 

Except they don't. So I guess they don't really care that much.

 

I guess we'll have our first answer in about 4 months as to whether or not the analysts concerns are real or imagined.

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post #233 of 297
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I guess we'll have our first answer in about 4 months as to whether or not the analysts concerns are real or imagined.

 

Yep, imagined.

post #234 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUndertow View Post

Price is too high with all the plastic...and too close in price to the higher end set. I don't get the point of the C at this price.

"now the "normal" price for a contract phone is $100 instead of $200"

Apple just set a new bar -- it is up to the others to [try to] compete.
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post #235 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"

Good question!

I think I have a better answer:

Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.

Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...

 

I agree with your observation about Apples drive to sometimes radically redesign it's product lines. It can be painful for the users but it is a good strategy in the long run. 

 

I just think that the mobile market is a very different beast.

 

I don't assume that the price matters that much. For a lot of people the phone is highly prestigious like clothing or cars. I guess nowadays most people rather compromise on their food than on their phones. But if a phone does well has less to do with specs and quality than with fashionability. And it is a rule in fashion that brands have a certain live span and after that it becomes almost impossible to sustain the popularity. "Being in fashion" becomes the very problem of a brand and the consumers are getting into new products. Some brands survive this down spiral and emerge many years later but still, the downfall is almost inevitable. To give some examples: Adidas and Levi's where almost bankrupt a few decades ago. Now it is companies like American Apparel and Superdry that are struggling.

post #236 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Yep, imagined.

 

We'll see.

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post #237 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!

If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.

If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.

 

That's a good point.

 

The iPhone 4 seems to still be available in some emerging markets as well.

 

I think we might see an 8GB 5C this Jan or Feb after the holiday season. That'll prop up sales during the traditional post holiday sales slump.

post #238 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If Munster said that, he does not understand valuation. I doubt he said something like that.

While EPS can mathematically increase, that is only part of the pricing equation: Price = [P/E]×[EPS]

Lower margins ⇒ Lower expected ROIC ⇒ Lower P/E ratio. In other words, the valuation consequences of an incremental EPS increase can be negative if the margin is lower.

You're also ignoring a huge factor. The proposal was to sell the iPhone 5C at 15% margin. But you still have to subtract overheads from that. A 15% gross margin would amount to 5% net (their overheads are around 10% of sales). If they were off even a little bit, the EPS might not increase at all. So not only would the P/E drop, the EPS might stay the same, so the stock could drop a lot.

That's why I said 'can' (and not 'will'). I was not ignoring it, but rather, wanted to focus on a bigger point.
post #239 of 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 

 

I am sooooo tired of hauling this out but here it is:

 

Apple II 1977

Mac 1984

PowerBook 1991

Newton 1993

iPod 2001

iPhone 2007

iPad 2010

 

Average interval between major new product introductions:  5.5 years.  My advice is, if you only started paying attention when iPhone first came out, then be patient.  A 3 year gap is at the low end of the range.  Even if we limit the numbers to the Steve Jobs era.

Are you seriously comparing the pace of technology innovation in the year 2013 to the Seventies? Really???

Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
post #240 of 297
Apple is presently adding around 100 million new customers by selling their old iPhones to the
low end consumers. Plus every year they would sell 80% of the new iPhones to repeat customers who are upgrading. Gradually they will be adding new consumers who will buy their old iPhones and still buy apps, music, video and other software services. I am happy that Apple is keeping the prices high.

China Mobile is yet to convert its network to LTE and Apple has time to get an agreement with them. Apple is selling iPhones to the china mobile network presently through retail network and most of the consumers in the developing countries buy their smartphones from retailers not the mobile operators. Apple has the licenses to sell iPhones in the china mobile network.
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