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iPhone 5c preorders to go live Friday at midnight Pacific, 3 a.m. Eastern - Page 2

post #41 of 81
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Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

Before Tuesday, plastic equaled Android junk.  Now, it's not plastic, it's really good plastic.  

It's called plastique.
 
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post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post

I smell triskaidekaphobia. Lol.

On a serious note though, I feel quite unhappy about iPhone 5C. I think in my dictionary, I can call it a fail Apple product (not because it won't sell, but because as an Apple product, it fails to win my heart).

Personally, I think it would have been about 23.45 times better if iPhone 5C was never introduced. iPhone 5 is much much better looking and now would have costed the same. iPhone 5C could have made some sense if it would cost about $400 unlocked. But the fact that Apple would replace a perfectly sexy iPhone 5 with an awful-new-Ive-design-philosophy-inspired 5C, doesn't make me feel good.

Anyone sharing my thoughts about 5C?

 

Apple could NEVER sell the iPhone5 for $550.  Its just to damn expensive to make.  Just look at the dropping margins ever since the 5 was released. It was NEVER going to happen, so get that out of your mind.

 

If you don't like the 5C price or colors it was not made for you.  If the 5C was priced at $350-$450 it would be TOO GOOD OF A DEAL and it would totally canibalize 5S sales. 

 

Bottom line is the 5C was made for people who wanted COLORS and a FUNNER and more CARE FREE phone.  Less technology but a more rugged case.  The $100 off is just an added bonus.  The 5C was never made to be a bargin hunters delight.  That's what Android phones are for.

 

I disagree strongly. There is a large difference in value proposition between the 5C and the 5S. In fact most people have said that for the $100 price difference, they can't imagine anyone ever wanting to buy a 5C.

 

Also there is still plenty of money out there to grab, specifically from Samsung who happens to have basically the other half of the smartphone profits in the industry.

 

Suppose as a quick example that Apple didn't make a cent on the 5C. If it keeps Samsung from making a cent then Apple has still done a good job of protecting iOS. Every dollar that doesn't go to Apple strengthens someone fighting against Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
 

It's basically the same specs as the iPhone 5 right? The only difference is the colors/materials. And the iPhone 5 is a year old spec. So it will be a good test of just how much people care/don't care about specs, or whether other things are more important.

 

Certainly it won't be as big a seller as the 5S (at least initially) because the 5S will have all the iPhone 5 upgraders, but I don't think many people would upgrade a 5 to a 5C. But then again maybe you would get some 4/4S upgraders.

 

Its only a "test" in the minds of people like you that don't understand the market at all. It is a forgone conclusion to be a massive win for those who do.

 

I believe it will easily outsell the iPhone 5S. YOY iPhone sales from Sept. 20th 2013 to 2014 will total something like 35% iPhone 5S sales, 65% iPhone 5C & 4S.

 

You're completely wrong on this. This is going to be a massive miss. The iPhone 5S just kills this thing and Apple iPhone owners have no concerns about breaking or harming their glass and aluminum phones. The iPhone 5s had better sell well because it has some very decent innovation in it with regard to motion sensing for fitness, the camera, fingerprint sensor, etc. If Apple cannot innovate the industry forward then the race really will be to the bottom with "good enough" phones. In effect, we should be rooting for the 5c to fail at it's price point because people would rather pay more for the innovative 5S. If properly priced, the point of the 5C would be to steal sales and profits from Samsung, not from Apple.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by total View Post
 

 

1. most complaints is about non-subsidy price of 5C. but do anyone know what is the % of sales for non-subsidy iphones? what if it is that 80% of iphone sales are subsidy and only 20% rest (just example)? then, who cares that full price of iphone is higher than expected? 

 

2. plastic. i used long time 3G version which was plastic is it right? now i use 4 and of course it has different material but i cant say its better than old 3G. honestly, it took me several days or few weeks to start like 4 over 3G plastic. So if 5c will be improved plastic over 3G, i have no problem with it.

 

1. That isn't the question. The question is how much money will Apple make with a $550 phone instead of a $400 phone. The answer is simple: the sell slightly fewer units, and make proportionally more money. Its not even worth discussing, as it is a rather mundane business 101.

 

2. The 3G and 3GS were a phenomenal design. The 4 through 5 were Apple trying to be fancy and futuristic...but none of those designs were the least bit practical. Nice, major achievements, but not practical at all. The 5C is the phone some people at Apple wished they made 4 years ago.

 

First Apple profit growth has stalled out. This is part of why the share price has dropped. The biggest profit strides in smartphones right now is being made by Samsung. However Samsung has been hurt by their "pray and spray" phone strategy. They push massive amounts of marketing dollars out there to build the Galaxy name but then undermine their own efforts by slapping it on everything under the sun so that customers get confused.

 

The 5C, if properly priced is the perfect antidote to this and that is part of why people are very frustrated with what Apple has done. They don't need to steal their own sales. There are plenty of people willing to bolt Android and the 50% of smartphones profits they are giving to Samsung, and go to iOS of they have more than one real choice. Every dollar Samsung doesn't get weakens it and strengthens Apple. Marketshare does matter at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post
 

If the 5C were $449, would you buy one? If you answered yes, and yes so would I, then who is going to buy the 5S?

 

Is it worth $549? iPhone 5 is still selling at $649 right now, er last week. For geeks, we know 5S has better this that and the other thing, we'd rather pay the extra $100, er the same $649 for that.

 

I wouldn't buy one at $400 because I own a 32 gig iPhone 5 and when I decide to upgrade again, it will be to a minimum 32 gig iPhone 5S or future equivalent. However both my kids are rocking iPhone 4's and one really was hoping for a new iPhone for his birthday. He knows selling his iPhone 4 plus birthday money won't get him to $650+ dollars. However I know for a fact it would have gotten him to $400-450. That right there is a lost sale. We are on T-mobile and don't do contracts. Basically Apple will have to hope his eye doesn't start straying to Android solutions.

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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

Before Tuesday, plastic equaled Android junk.  Now, it's not plastic, it's really good plastic.  



If I recall 16:9 was also considered junk.
So was HDMI on a laptop.
 
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post #44 of 81

  The biggest disappointment of the 5C being the price.   I think that is the amount agreed on by Apple and their biggest customer.

Problem is that customer does not want to come on board until the beginning of the year, the talk is that they want to finalize some work on the 3G or 4G coverage.

 

  You imagine how things would have gone if Apple would have priced that phone $100. less in China.

Lot of China Mobiles customers would have bought their phone thru the other carriers there.

 

  I think there will be a price correction as soon as C. M. announces that they are ready to sell Apple.

post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by architecton View Post


I wouldn't put too much stock on what's being written on MR. That place is overrun by psychopathic fandroids in urgent need of a reboot...

In my opinion the Apple crowd has been somewhat spoiled. Last year, when the iPhone 5 was released, all three iPhone offerings were of premium built quality. You really couldn't go wrong purchasing either of them. Today you have the premium 5s, the "PLASTIC" 5c and the Premium 4S. That's confusing to most. Imagine BMW releasing an M5 that "looks" like the Prius yet both the M6 and M3 being the high quality sportscars we know currently. It is really odd that Apple's mid range offering is of lower PERCEIVED quality than the lower range one... Obviously Apple has done this to save on production costs and increase profit margins but it is so damn obvious that many people find it hard to accept. Amateurish yes, yet they're very honest about it.

I totally get the idea of the 5C though I'm still a bit unclear on the positioning. I think it's great Apple is building a portfolio around iPhone. And I think for the 5C target market they're not going to give a shit that its plastic and not glass or aluminum. As long as it feels good and looks good it will sell and people will probably be happy they don't have to be as concerned about nicks and scratches. I think 5C was more about product differentiation than anything else. And maybe Apple's way of saying plastic doesn't have to equal "cheap". I'm still not convinced on the pricing and I don't understand why the 4S is still hanging around. Keeping the 4S in the product line baffles me. I don't care how cheap it is to produce these days.
post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

No, this is rubbish. Its an improved iPhone 5 with major market appeal in the way of the casing that doesn't suck (the iPhone 5 is fragile POS), and attractive color offerings.

The iPhone 5C is the best physical design ever to wrap an iPhone. 

I find some of the colors ugly, but that is neither here nor there, as I'm getting a 5S.
Wait....you say the iPhone 5 is a fragile POS but you're buying the 5S? Won't that just be another fragile POS based on your criteria?
post #47 of 81
Originally Posted by mr O View Post
The 5C should have been a sub 500$ 3,5" iPhone mini.

The 5S should have been simply, the iPhone.

 

I rather think Apple knows what "should have been" better than you.

 

Originally Posted by Dunks View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, place you bets on which colour out-of-stocks first.

 

White, blue, green, yellow, pink. In that order.

post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

Suppose as a quick example that Apple didn't make a cent on the 5C. If it keeps Samsung from making a cent then Apple has still done a good job of protecting iOS. Every dollar that doesn't go to Apple strengthens someone fighting against Apple.

 

The 5C, if properly priced is the perfect antidote to this and that is part of why people are very frustrated with what Apple has done. They don't need to steal their own sales. There are plenty of people willing to bolt Android and the 50% of smartphones profits they are giving to Samsung, and go to iOS of they have more than one real choice. Every dollar Samsung doesn't get weakens it and strengthens Apple. Marketshare does matter at some point.

 

I wouldn't buy one at $400 because I own a 32 gig iPhone 5 and when I decide to upgrade again, it will be to a minimum 32 gig iPhone 5S or future equivalent. However both my kids are rocking iPhone 4's and one really was hoping for a new iPhone for his birthday. He knows selling his iPhone 4 plus birthday money won't get him to $650+ dollars. However I know for a fact it would have gotten him to $400-450. That right there is a lost sale. We are on T-mobile and don't do contracts. Basically Apple will have to hope his eye doesn't start straying to Android solutions.

 

Do you live in FANTASY LAND? Why the HELL would Apple want to make $0 on selling a 5C just to increase marketshare.  Sorry Apple is not run like Amazon. They would be LOSING money.  Each iPhone sold has to take into account admin cost, cost of updating iOS, retail store costs, warrantee costs, customer service cost, adversiting, ect.  If you want a 'bargin' buy a crap Android for $400.

 

Bottom line is Apple could not make a phone up to their own STANDARDS and still make margins that are acceptable.  Period.  I'm so sorry your kids can't get a $650 mini-supercomputer every two years.  BOO HOO!

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post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

I wouldn't buy one at $400 because I own a 32 gig iPhone 5 and when I decide to upgrade again, it will be to a minimum 32 gig iPhone 5S or future equivalent. However both my kids are rocking iPhone 4's and one really was hoping for a new iPhone for his birthday. He knows selling his iPhone 4 plus birthday money won't get him to $650+ dollars. However I know for a fact it would have gotten him to $400-450. That right there is a lost sale. We are on T-mobile and don't do contracts. Basically Apple will have to hope his eye doesn't start straying to Android solutions.

You could easily hold out until the 6S, but your kids, wow they are in a rut with that budget, but not entirely, if they are very attached to Apple and the ecosystem, why not get the iPod touch + a cheap robust feature phone. But iOS7 will support iPhone 4, so that will prolong the fun with their existing phones.

 

I'm guessing, I've read others say this too, next year, 5C will take over the 4S position, 2 year old hardware, $450 probably.

post #50 of 81
The arguments in this thread are laughable.

The reason why the 5C is considered a failure is because it will fail to expand the iPhone's market reach beyond where it already is (ie subsidized carriers and wealthy consumers).

The hope investors and many posters here and abroad had was the 5C would be the iPhone to reach people that couldn't access an iPhone before (ie expand the iPhone's market reach).

The 5C won't do that at all.

IMO it has the potential to steal 5S sales because its competing for the same buyers. Have any of you thought of that yet?

There's a limited amount of people that can afford $550+ around the world and both the 5S and 5C are competing for the same limited buyers.

The beauty of placing the 5C in a different price bracket was it wouldn't compete for the same high end wealthy buyers that can afford $550+ smartphones. It could have and should have been competing against Samsung in the midrange $300-500 price range where Apple currently has no strong presence.

People buying the 5S wouldn't have considered a $400 5C anyway.

Also the argument about profits and margins is laughable.

When was $400 ever considered cheap? If Appke can make a profit on iPods and iPads that cost less why the hell do some of you think of te 5C were priced at $400 Apple would get no profit and lose money on it? Foolishness.
post #51 of 81

Some of you hating the $550 price need a REALITY check.  Apple is in the business to make money.  Here is a quick calculation that shows what would happen if Apple priced the 5C at $400 vs $550.

 

Most insiders agree that Apple makes about 55-65% gross margins on the latest iPhone.  For the calculation I'll use 57.5% gross profit for the 5S.

 

Example 1:

5S for $650, gross margin 57.5%, 65 mil units a year

5C for $550, gross margin 57.5%, 65 mil units a year

Total units sold: 130 mil

Total gross profit: 44,850,000,000

 

Example 2

5S for $650, gross margin 57.5%, 58.50 mil units a year

5C for $400, gross margin 39.5%, 145.50 mil units a year

Total units sold: 204 mil

Total gross profit: 44,853,000,000

 

I'm assuming that at $400 the 5C will canabalize 10% of 5S sales.

 

Apple would have to sell 74,000,000 more iPhones just to make as much profit!

Thats an increase of 57% more unit sales just to break even.

Lets say Apple only grows units by 25% with a cheap 5C.  They would actually make over SIX BILLION less in gross profit.

 

I'm sorry but a $400 5C would hurt the company unless their unit sales exploded to almost 60%+

It would be stupid to take such a huge risk all at once.  But i do see Apple selling C's at discounts in markets such as China/India once the intial sales fury ends

 

heres an excellent article that backs up my calculation:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/09/apple-inc-aapl-iphone-5c-positive/


Edited by sog35 - 9/12/13 at 8:16am
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post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The arguments in this thread are laughable.

The reason why the 5C is considered a failure is because it will fail to expand the iPhone's market reach beyond where it already is (ie subsidized carriers and wealthy consumers).

The hope investors and many posters here and abroad had was the 5C would be the iPhone to reach people that couldn't access an iPhone before (ie expand the iPhone's market reach).

The 5C won't do that at all.

IMO it has the potential to steal 5S sales because its competing for the same buyers. Have any of you thought of that yet?

There's a limited amount of people that can afford $550+ around the world and both the 5S and 5C are competing for the same limited buyers.

The beauty of placing the 5C in a different price bracket was it wouldn't compete for the same high end wealthy buyers that can afford $550+ smartphones. It could have and should have been competing against Samsung in the midrange $300-500 price range where Apple currently has no strong presence.

People buying the 5S wouldn't have considered a $400 5C anyway.

Also the argument about profits and margins is laughable.

When was $400 ever considered cheap? If Appke can make a profit on iPods and iPads that cost less why the hell do some of you think of te 5C were priced at $400 Apple would get no profit and lose money on it? Foolishness.

 

I guess you would want BMW to sell a $15,000 car also?

Or Louis Vutton to sell $99 bags?

Or Rolex to sell $300 watches?

 

I for one would have purchased the 5C for $400.  But I'm getting the 5S.  There would have been MASSIVE canibalization if the 5C was $400.  The 5S looks just like the 5, the 5C looks totally different.  It would have been a too good bargain.

 

And stop comparing iPod/iPad costs to iPhone.  The iPhone is Apple's bread and butter.  They can't be sacrificing 25% of their margins for the business unit that accounts for 65% of their profits.

 

Don't forget that China Unicom and China Telecom both SUBSIDIZE iPhones.  Soon China Mobile will also.


Edited by sog35 - 9/12/13 at 8:28am
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post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post

I smell triskaidekaphobia. Lol.

On a serious note though, I feel quite unhappy about iPhone 5C. I think in my dictionary, I can call it a fail Apple product (not because it won't sell, but because as an Apple product, it fails to win my heart).

Personally, I think it would have been about 23.45 times better if iPhone 5C was never introduced. iPhone 5 is much much better looking and now would have costed the same. iPhone 5C could have made some sense if it would cost about $400 unlocked. But the fact that Apple would replace a perfectly sexy iPhone 5 with an awful-new-Ive-design-philosophy-inspired 5C, doesn't make me feel good.

Anyone sharing my thoughts about 5C?

 

Multiple items offered to multiple people all with different taste or ONE product that only sells to people with ONE sense of style?

 

I welcome Apple broadening it's appeal, even though I'm getting the 5s. But then I remember their first laptop....

post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

I guess you would want BMW to sell a $15,000 car also?
Or Louis Vutton to sell $99 bags?
Or Rolex to sell $300 watches?

I for one would have purchased the 5C for $400.  But I'm getting the 5S.  There would have been MASSIVE canibalization if the 5C was $400.  The 5S looks just like the 5, the 5C looks totally different.  It would have been a too good bargain.

And stop comparing iPod/iPad costs to iPhone.  The iPhone is Apple's bread and butter.  They can't be sacrificing 25% of their margins for the business unit that accounts for 65% of their profits.

Don't forget that China Unicom and China Telecom both SUBSIDIZE iPhones.  Soon China Mobile will also.

A $400 phone is no where close to the analogy of a $15,000 BMW.

$400 is still a lot of money. Remember most Android phones are $200 or less.

A plastic iPhone could have and should have been a profitable venture for Apple and could have been $400 no problem.
post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It's really quite simple. Who knows more about the phone market - you or Apple? I'll give you a second to think about it, but I'd put my money on Apple.

Cutting the price by $150 (as you are suggesting) would do a number of things:
1. Cut their gross margin dramatically - which would cause the stock to plummet even worse than it did yesterday.
2. Destroy Apple's market positioning as only selling high quality phones
3. Reduce sales of the 5S - which would erode margins further and damage Apple's market positioning since their flagship phone would not sell as well
4. It would increase sales, but no one has suggested how much. Apple products tend to have only very limited price elasticity, so a price cut might not have any significant effect on volume - and almost certainly wouldn't be enough to make up for the lower margins. A quick back of the envelope calculation suggests that Apple would have to sell about 4-5 times as many phones to make up for the price cut that you're suggesting. Since they already have something like a 20% market share globally, that's not going to happen - so your price cut would hurt more than it could help.

As for losing ecosystem support, there's absolutely no sign of that happening. Apple's ecosystem is where developers go to make money - and that's not likely to change.

In the end, please demonstrate why your knowledge of the phone market is greater than Apple's before shooting off your mouth.

 

And, boom goes the dynamite. I even ran some of the basic numbers and there is no way in the world it would ever have made sense to price it any differently. None. Even an 8 GB model at $100 less would have been disastrous to revenue.

 

Honestly will these little children with no critical thinking skills ever go away? They embarrass themselves to no end with their lack of knowledge, yet insistence upon barking a bunch of uninformed nonsense.

post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


A $400 phone is no where close to the analogy of a $15,000 BMW.

$400 is still a lot of money. Remember most Android phones are $200 or less.

A plastic iPhone could have and should have been a profitable venture for Apple and could have been $400 no problem.

 

You are completely uninformed and lack any relevant knowledge to comment on the situation. Making such a statement as the bold disqualifies you from even the vaguest consideration of attention to future comments.

 

In other words, shut up.

post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Some of you hating the $550 price need a REALITY check.  Apple is in the business to make money.  Here is a quick calculation that shows what would happen if Apple priced the 5C at $400 vs $550.

 

Most insiders agree that Apple makes about 55-65% gross margins on the latest iPhone.  For the calculation I'll use 57.5% gross profit for the 5S.

 

Example 1:

5S for $650, gross margin 57.5%, 65 mil units a year

5C for $550, gross margin 57.5%, 65 mil units a year

Total units sold: 130 mil

Total gross profit: 44,850,000,000

 

Example 2

5S for $650, gross margin 57.5%, 58.50 mil units a year

5C for $400, gross margin 39.5%, 145.50 mil units a year

Total units sold: 204 mil

Total gross profit: 44,853,000,000

 

I'm assuming that at $400 the 5C will canabalize 10% of 5S sales.

 

Apple would have to sell 74,000,000 more iPhones just to make as much profit!

Thats an increase of 57% more unit sales just to break even.

Lets say Apple only grows units by 25% with a cheap 5C.  They would actually make over SIX BILLION less in gross profit.

 

I'm sorry but a $400 5C would hurt the company unless their unit sales exploded to almost 60%+

It would be stupid to take such a huge risk all at once.  But i do see Apple selling C's at discounts in markets such as China/India once the intial sales fury ends

 

heres an excellent article that backs up my calculation:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/09/apple-inc-aapl-iphone-5c-positive/

 

Your post will be ignored by the wealth of trolls. I can't even call them trolls really, they are just whiny uninformed brats that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Your post is the truth.

 

Its just funny to me.

 

Apple knows WTF they're doing...

...the numbers corroborate it....

 

Yet Forum Whiners think they know better. Ok...throw us some numbers, forum whiners, and show us all how Apple is Doomed.

post #58 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The arguments in this thread are laughable.

The reason why the 5C is considered a failure is because it will fail to expand the iPhone's market reach beyond where it already is (ie subsidized carriers and wealthy consumers).
.

Nostradamus, is that you? Will you eat your words when the 5C becomes the #1 or #2 phone model? Or will you quantify your prediction by saying the 5C should sell 100 MM in 2013, anything less is a failure?
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

You are completely uninformed and lack any relevant knowledge to comment on the situation. Making such a statement as the bold disqualifies you from even the vaguest consideration of attention to future comments.

In other words, shut up.

You obviously know no more than I do.

If Nokia's can sell high end plastic phones for $200-300. Apple could have made a profitable 5C for less than $550.

No one here knows the build cost for this phone. The manufacturing costs are obviously lower than the 5/5S and its internals are all old as well.

IMO with the little we do know the phone could have been profitable for less than $550.
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

A $400 phone is no where close to the analogy of a $15,000 BMW.

$400 is still a lot of money. Remember most Android phones are $200 or less.

A plastic iPhone could have and should have been a profitable venture for Apple and could have been $400 no problem.

And most sub $200 Android phones are shit. Plus the companies selling them don't make money on them.
post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

You obviously know no more than I do.

If Nokia's can sell high end plastic phones for $200-300. Apple could have made a profitable 5C for less than $550.

No one here knows the build cost for this phone. The manufacturing costs are obviously lower than the 5/5S and its internals are all old as well.

IMO with the little we do know the phone could have been profitable for less than $550.

Um didn't Nokia just got bought out by Microsoft? How's that strategy going for them.
post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Nostradamus, is that you? Will you eat your words when the 5C becomes the #1 or #2 phone model? Or will you quantify your prediction by saying the 5C should sell 100 MM in 2013, anything less is a failure?

We'll see what happens.

I think the 5C is a great device for the wrong price. In the US it'll probably do well because Americans are blinded by subsidized price models. Overseas though I'm not too sure.

To spin your question another way, if Apple offers a lower price 5C before next year would you eat your words?
post #63 of 81
I feel people tend to forget that the price set for a product is determined what your production cost and possibly engineering and marketing, overhead etc are, what market segment you want to reach, what profit you want to make and brand impact overall.
If some point out that other products' prices dropped then this is a consequence of at least one of the factors mentioned above. If eg Macs or iPods are not Apple's main business anymore they can afford smaller profit more easily. Over time technologies in making and assembling parts becomes more cost efficient and you can bring down price without sacrificing profit.
Only lowering price in order to make it more affordable is not how it works. And should Apple indeed be off their targets they will act and lower the price or kill the product. The market will sort it out. However, once you've established a price point doing the opposite and going up is hard to do unless you have a monopoly. Overall, I'm curious but not worried. iPad eg was a much bigger risk from my POV.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

We'll see what happens.

I think the 5C is a great device for the wrong price. In the US it'll probably do well because Americans are blinded by subsidized price models. Overseas though I'm not too sure.

To spin your question another way, if Apple offers a lower price 5C before next year would you eat your words?

I never said the price was right, bob barker, but I never said it was wrong either. Apple would know better than I would.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

And most sub $200 Android phones are shit. Plus the companies selling them don't make money on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Um didn't Nokia just got bought out by Microsoft? How's that strategy going for them.

I mentioned $200 Nokias and Androids to add context, which a lot of people here are lacking.

$400 is NOT cheap for a phone as some here are now saying. Actually some of you were saying $400 was the right price before Tuesday because its high enough for Apple to make a profit but low enough to differentiate it from their premium offering.

We all can agree Apple will never make a cheap bargain phone. But a midtier phone? We all assumed that's what Apple would give us. I don't consider $550 midtier.
post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post



I mentioned $200 Nokias and Androids to add context, which a lot of people here are lacking.

$400 is NOT cheap for a phone as some here are now saying. Actually some of you were saying $400 was the right price before Tuesday because its high enough for Apple to make a profit but low enough to differentiate it from their premium offering.

We all can agree Apple will never make a cheap bargain phone. But a midtier phone? We all assumed that's what Apple would give us. I don't consider $550 midtier.

 

Show me one single phone that sells for $400 that is even close to the 5C. 

 

And $400 is CHEAP.  For what would could be considered a pocketsized supercomputer with an amazing display and incredible free OS and software.  Again show me a single smartphone that at $400 comes even close to the 5C. The 5C is faster than the $700 Galaxy S4 in real world computing. Are you telling me the S4 has better build quality than the 5C?

 

And don't give this garbage that Nokia sells $200 phones.  They would sell them for $550 if they could, but they can't.  Also keep in mind that Apple has to cover all the expenses for creating/maintaining/updated iOS.  Nokia paid ZERO in OS costs.  Or how about the cost of retail stores?  World class customer service?  R&D? Bottom line is Nokia is willing to sacrifice margins in order to get their product in peoples hands.  Why would Apple do the same thing when they can barely keep up with demand selling $650 phones?

 

Could Apple sell the 5C for $400?  Yes they could.  But their gross margin would fall from 60% to 40%.   They would need to sell over 200,000,000 phones just to capture the same profit as last year.  We don't even know if its possible for Apple to produce those many phones.

 

You are living in a FANTASY world.  What next?  You want a BMW for $20,000?  A Rolex for $300?  DREAM ON.

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post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


We'll see what happens.

I think the 5C is a great device for the wrong price. In the US it'll probably do well because Americans are blinded by subsidized price models. Overseas though I'm not too sure.

To spin your question another way, if Apple offers a lower price 5C before next year would you eat your words?

 

2 out of 3 of China's biggest carriers already subsidize iPhones.  Soon China Mobile will soon.  I'm pretty sure that's why the 5C is so expensive in China.  They want people to get their phones subsidized.  Probably the last step in the China Mobile negotiations.

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post #68 of 81

Old hardware for brand new, nearly top of the line price. 

 

This is some kind of a joke.

 

Apple should have cut more corners on the 5C and offered it at significantly less.

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post #69 of 81

Simple MATH is your friend:

 

Gross Margin on 5S is about $390 a unit ( $650 x 60%)

Gross Margin on $400 5C would be $160  unit ( $400 x 40%)

 

Bottom line:  You would need to sell 2.5 iPhoneC's just to make the same margin as ONE SINGLE 5S.

 

Do you really think Apple can increase their unit sales by 250% in one year?  And if they do they would only break even with last year.

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post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

We all can agree Apple will never make a cheap bargain phone. But a midtier phone? We all assumed that's what Apple would give us. I don't consider $550 midtier.

 

Apple has already made a mid-tier phone. It's just priced well out of its real performance range. My 2-year-old Android phone has a superior screen, similar processor, and other specs to the 5C. They're both plastic, though of course the 5C is still a superior build (doesn't justify its price). 

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post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post
 

Old hardware for brand new, nearly top of the line price. 

 

This is some kind of a joke.

 

Apple should have cut more corners on the 5C and offered it at significantly less.

 

Apple doesn't cut corners.  Don't you know this?  They are a premium brand.  Selling a compromised phone would tarnish their reputation and cost them BILLIONS in Goodwill.

 

Old hardward thats still faster than the top of the line $700 Samsung.

Plus with better build quality.

Plus with far better eco-system

Far better OS (that gets updated, unlike Android which is at the whim of the carrier)

Plus far better tech and customer service

Sure is a joke.

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post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post
 

 

Apple has already made a mid-tier phone. It's just priced well out of its real performance range. My 2-year-old Android phone has a superior screen, similar processor, and other specs to the 5C. They're both plastic, though of course the 5C is still a superior build (doesn't justify its price). 

 

What phone is this?  tell me.

 

The Samsung S4 is slower in real world computing than the 5C.

Are you on the latest version of Android?  Or a 3 year old version like 50% of Android users.

How much can you sell your 2 year old Android for?  $5?  Ever heard of Apple resale value?

 

Stats don't mean crap if you are running a crap OS.  The Samsung S4 should run circles around the 5 if stats were everything.  But it doesn't and it has frequent lag unlike the 5.

 

Is Apple sacrificing possible sales with a $550 phone.  Of course.  But the only way to sacrifice ZERO sales is to give phones away for free.  For context Samsung sells almost 300,000,000 smartphones a year (compared to 130,000,000 of Apple) yet still makes less profit than Apple.


Edited by sog35 - 9/12/13 at 10:40am
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post #73 of 81

I can't wait to wake up in the morning and see what really happens, see if they say out of  stock for any colors, or if all will be available for launch. I think it's interesting they actually offer an unlocked phone on launch day, as in the past it seemed like they waited a month to release an unlocked version.

post #74 of 81

LG LTE HD, aka Nitro HD. I can't sell it for much, maybe only a $100 now, but I got it new for $200 unlocked last year. Even if I lose $100 on it now or $150 on it in the future, it would still have cost me far less than the loss I would have taken on a 4S. 

 

Unsure about the lag you're referring to. I don't run stock 4.2, and anyone with an Android, especially a Samsung, should never use carrier ROMs. Android was a "crap" OS a few years ago. Not so much now. 

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post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Apple doesn't cut corners.  Don't you know this?  They are a premium brand.  Selling a compromised phone would tarnish their reputation and cost them BILLIONS in Goodwill.

 

Old hardward thats still faster than the top of the line $700 Samsung.

Plus with better build quality.

Plus with far better eco-system

Far better OS (that gets updated, unlike Android which is at the whim of the carrier)

Plus far better tech and customer service

Sure is a joke.

 

LOL. Faster than a $700 Samsung? You really believe that the A6 is faster than even last generation quad chips? I thought fanboys stopped smoking Jobs' product awhile ago. 

 

Apple did cut corners. They gave you old and cheap hardware packaged neatly for an absurd price. 

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post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post
 

LG LTE HD, aka Nitro HD. I can't sell it for much, maybe only a $100 now, but I got it new for $200 unlocked last year. Even if I lose $100 on it now or $150 on it in the future, it would still have cost me far less than the loss I would have taken on a 4S. 

 

Unsure about the lag you're referring to. I don't run stock 4.2, and anyone with an Android, especially a Samsung, should never use carrier ROMs. Android was a "crap" OS a few years ago. Not so much now. 

 

Oh God.  That's a decent phone but its not even in the same class as the 5.  You won't be able to sell it for $100.  More like $5.  Even the iPhone4 blows the crap out of that phone. 

 

And most people won't go through the trouble of rooting their Android phone. Sorry dude you are the exception. Most people with that phone would be on Android3.xx.  An OS thats over 4 friken years old!  Talk about constant crashing of newer apps and malware concerns!


Edited by sog35 - 9/12/13 at 11:42am
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post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post
 

 

LOL. Faster than a $700 Samsung? You really believe that the A6 is faster than even last generation quad chips? I thought fanboys stopped smoking Jobs' product awhile ago. 

 

Apple did cut corners. They gave you old and cheap hardware packaged neatly for an absurd price. 

 

Quad chips may be faster than the A7 in a lab but in real world tests using the native OS the 5 is still faster than the Galaxy S4.

 

Lag issues are common with S4

http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s4/283755-galaxy-s4-lag-issue.html

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238721/Samsung_Galaxy_S4_deep_dive_review_A_real_world_evaluation?taxonomyId=75&pageNumber=2

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/500687/20130822/samsung-galaxy-s4-top-5-hot-fixes.htm#.UjIKZH8Z34s

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s4/717183-how-fix-galaxy-s4-lag.html

 

Yes you can stop some of the lag by turning off features, adjusting settings, rebooting frequently, turning off animations and downloading certain apps.  What a pain in the ass!


Edited by sog35 - 9/12/13 at 11:41am
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post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Why would iPhone 5 users be upgrading? Especially people on 2 year contracts? I can understand tech geeks who always need to have the latest and greatest stuff but is that a lot of people? I have an iPhone 5 right now but am only one year in to my contract so no new iPhone for me this year.

 

Why would iPhone 5 users be upgrading? You said it yourself - all of the tech geeks will be on the iPhone 5, just because a few days ago it was the latest. Also, this is no minor upgrade as you would think from the "S" moniker, it is *double* speed.

 

I am in the camp that thinks the 5S is amazing and will sell like hotcakes and the 5C will get a lukewarm reception. I even think we will see some of the colors discontinued or replaced with a new color.

post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
 

 

Why would iPhone 5 users be upgrading? You said it yourself - all of the tech geeks will be on the iPhone 5, just because a few days ago it was the latest. Also, this is no minor upgrade as you would think from the "S" moniker, it is *double* speed.

 

I am in the camp that thinks the 5S is amazing and will sell like hotcakes and the 5C will get a lukewarm reception. I even think we will see some of the colors discontinued or replaced with a new color.

 

We'll probably see a move on the price before we see colors discontinued or replaced.

post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Oh God.  That's a decent phone (LG Nitro) but its not even in the same class as the 5.  You won't be able to sell it for $100.  More like $5.  Even the iPhone4 blows the crap out of that phone. 

And most people won't go through the trouble of rooting their Android phone. Sorry dude you are the exception. Most people with that phone would be on Android3.xx.  An OS thats over 4 friken years old!  Talk about constant crashing of newer apps and malware concerns!

Users of the LG Nitro were updated to Android 4.x last month.
http://blogs.att.net/consumerblog/story/a7783034

3.x isn't four years old either, released in 2011. Android 3.x also wasn't a smartphone OS version but instead intended for tablets at the time. You've confused phones or OS versions or something. I believe the Nitro originally shipped with Gingerbread 2.3.5 which is only two years back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history#Android_2.3.3.E2.80.932.3.7_Gingerbread_.28API_level_10.29

But I agree with you that the Nitro wouldn't be considered in the same category as the iPhone by most people which I think is the point you were trying to make but for the wrong reasons.
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/13/13 at 6:23am
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