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Not to be outdone by Apple's iPhone 5s, Samsung pledges 64-bit chips in next Galaxy phones - Page 5

post #161 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Android support only one CPU architecture, and currently no Linux nor Android release that support multiple arch binary as a standard feature.

 

That's just wrong. Android compiles and runs on multiple ARM platforms (ARM11, ARMv7, ARMv8), x86, and MIPS. Intel is actively working on x32 and x64. For example, here are two patches from Intel for multi-arch support:

These were picked just by looking at today's AOSP Gerrit front page.

 

Further, APK files support multiple architectures. The installer extracts the appropriate binaries for the platform at install-time. APKs are limited to 50 MB, so if you have a lot of native code for a lot of architectures, you'd need the multiple APK support.

post #162 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

Also, Apple now has a 3 year period before all phones offered for sale will all be 64-bit.  OS7 is 64-bit on the 5S and I wonder when Android will be 64-bit?  Samsung????

Apple makes these changes to set themselves up for something down the road.  Nothing is by chance here.  That goes for the finger print scanner...presented as a side note almost but where will it be in a year or 2.  The operate on vision for the future not a flash today and gone tomorrow.

Likely, the next iPads will exploit the 64-bit A7 (A7X ?) hardware and iOS 7 in ways that the iPhone never will. I can envision a 12" iPad with a 256 GB SSD and 16 GB RAM.

AIR, somewhere around iOS 5, Apple exposed the ProRes Codecs/APIs -- then removed them after several weeks. With the A7X, OpenGL, OpenCL, an iPad could do some serious audio, video, gaming work.

Then there is that easily overlooked iOS device -- the AppleTV. Add the same specs to that little box and you have a great gaming console and delivery vehicle for 4K video.

Add Thunderbolt and the same package could be used as a stand-alone server, part of a server farm -- or as part of a video render farm. Apple already has software that parcels out work to multiple Macs to be processed in parallel... no big deal to convert that to 64-Bit iOS 7.

64-bit CPU/GPU + 64-bio iOS == "We're not in Kansas, anymore!"
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post #163 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
 

Further, APK files support multiple architectures. The installer extracts the appropriate binaries for the platform at install-time. APKs are limited to 50 MB, so if you have a lot of native code for a lot of architectures, you'd need the multiple APK support.

 

Still this is not fat binary support, it only a fat installer trick for managing multiple single arch binary

post #164 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
 

 

I don't know why they don't buy Blackberry.  I'm no expert, but from what I've heard it's a modern OS built on a unique Unix kernel.  

At least it would give them something to build on that makes more sense than a rip-off of Java bolted onto a rip-off of Unix.  

 

Interesting, I had never though of that before.  That does potentially make sense.

post #165 of 230
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Copycats!

So Apple invented 64-bit? /s

No, Apple invented the Trinary Number System -- and the Trinary Digit.
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post #166 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Still this is not fat binary support, it only a fat installer trick for managing multiple single arch binary

Why fat binary (as opposed to multiple single arch binaries) is important?
post #167 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I dont understand this move by Samsung,  they just released the new Note and 10" Tablet last week, and today they say.. but we will have 64 bit version next year.  What is there supposed to tell consumers interested in buying a Samsung Note and 10" Tablet? 
Was this a wise business move or did they just shoot themselves in the foot by telling consumers to wait for the next update?

Interesting... With all the hype about the iPhone announcement, I forgot about the recent Sammy releases.

Seems that Sammy is also stealing ideas from the late Adam Osborne... pity.
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post #168 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Still this is not fat binary support, it only a fat installer trick for managing multiple single arch binary

 

You're arguing about semantics, so I'm done.

post #169 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

64 bit will help out the gamers on an iPhone, but the reason it is critically important and will make a difference is because it will boost the performance of iPads.  Almost certain the iPads will be getting a CPU upgrade in the next month or so.   For Apple shareholders, this will be important. The tablet market in the long run is the holy grail.  The tablet market will expand more slowly and for a much longer period of time and whoever wins the tablet market will own the computer market.  In the long term, Microsoft is in serious trouble because they don't have a mobile platform. 

This needs to be repeated until it sinks into some thick heads. Apple is in this for the long haul and is working towards computing for a decade into the future. I think the iPhone only exists because they saw it as a good way to transitin people into the iPad. And having sold a few they realized that future computing would come in three favors: mobile (tablets) very mobile (phones) and that stuff that grandma used to do, you know with the big screen? That stuff companies do now? Not mobile? What is it called? Oh yeah, desktops...

The 64 bit combined with the performance upgrade is going to make a huge difference in tablets. And Apple controls it. The hardware, the cores, the software, all of it. And very soon at the rate they are improving chips your iPad will be running very very close to your desktop in speed.

How hot does this chip run? Anyone know? Can they give the iPad a dual chip? Four cores? Eight? How far away is that? And when your iPad has 128 gigs and desktop speed and can reach the cloud from almost anywhere, why would you buy a computer?

Already in my house we are getting closer to this every day. We have a desktop that is essentially a server or big iron. Yes, I have to rip the occasional movie, and I still keep iPhone and iPad backups there, but except for 2-3 times a week doing short intensive tasks, it could be stored in a closet and still do its job. But we have 4 iPhones, 3 iPads, and an iPod that get used on a near constant basis.

Which market do you want to control, the past, or the future.

Skate to where the puck will be...


Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

and that little puck looks a lot like an AppleTV package.
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post #170 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by appletouches View Post

Samsung co-CEO Shin Jong-kyun's pep up speech to his team:

Step#1: Ctrl C
Step#2: Ctrl V
Step#3: logo change

Samsung still on Windows hey? Really, they have no taste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by narnio View Post

From a technical standpoint, 64 bits is not needed for a mobile device. This change is all about bragging rights.

Hopefully consumers will wise up to the lack of need for 64-bits and save themselves some money.

1) If it wasn't needed, I don't think the most profitable tech company in the world would undertake this massive change and implement it.

2) Consumers don't pay more for this 64-bit iPhone. That, and the other improvements, are all free of charge. Just think of the price difference in cropped CCD vs Full Frame camera sensors. Now think of the *slightly* bigger sensor Apple put in their phone...without charging more. We should thank them. 64 times over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrustyMcLovin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Copycats!
Did you make the same comment when Apple copied the larger screens on typical Android devices for the iPhone 5?

I think he means that Samsung is quick to respond that they too will have 64 bit phones. Real pity though the journalist didn't ask them when they decided to do so, and when they started the project. I guess, like their sales numbers, with Samsung you'll just never know.
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post #171 of 230

Come on dude, the get out of the Samsung's mith.............they are just fooling people. As of now Apple has not copied any one at least Samsung and they won't ever. However, there are some new age customer who love to have large screen for their video playback and for them Apple is already working and they will provide as the best display which will be best for the consumer.

 

Also, have you seen how hard to keep those big screen phone while working or traveling etc. Also, remember one thing Apple won't do anything silly "Just to show off", if they feel that it would be beneficial for their customer they will sure update the screen and other hard ware.

post #172 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by iang1234 View Post


Why fat binary (as opposed to multiple single arch binaries) is important?

 

There is many advantages of having a single binary for multiple architecture.

 

On the developer sides, it greatly simplify project development by managing all plateform with the same codes and distributing as one apps for all device.  Imagine the update hell for developer who needs to keeps track of every specific built. 

 

On the users side, It render the transition to a new architecture invisible to them. Having the same apps that could run on legacy and new architecture without needs for user to update or install a separated version of the Apps.

 

Without Fat binary Apple would be unable to make the Intel and 64 bit transition.  Just look at Windows SysWOW64 ugliness, where user has to choose between multiple drivers and apps version depending if they use an 64bit Windows or not. 

post #173 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Still this is not fat binary support, it only a fat installer trick for managing multiple single arch binary

 

A "fat installer" automatically selects the appropriate build to install. A fat binary includes builds for all architectures including ones that you don't need, and your device decides at runtime which binary to use. Both approaches let the developer target multiple platforms.

post #174 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post
 

 

Interesting, I had never though of that before.  That does potentially make sense.

I thought Blackberry is now based on QNX (RTOS).

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post #175 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

 

A "fat installer" automatically selects the appropriate build to install. A fat binary includes builds for all architectures including ones that you don't need, and your device decides at runtime which binary to use. Both approaches let the developer target multiple platforms.

 

One thing I don't know about the Android APK stuff, does every build shares the assets, like gui stuff or they are duplicated for every build included in the APK?  Because on OSX, the UI part and assets are store outside of the binary and being share between all architecture include within the binary.  So adding more target arch to a fat binary on OSX doesn't add much to the size of the apps.

post #176 of 230
Samsung - The monkey see, monkey do company. Meanwhile Samsung is busy copying Dyson vacuums.....shameless...lol.
post #177 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

One thing I don't know about the Android APK stuff, does every build shares the assets, like gui stuff or they are duplicated for every build included in the APK?  Because on OSX, the UI part and assets are store outside of the binary and being share between all architecture include within the binary.  So adding more target arch to a fat binary on OSX doesn't add much to the size of the apps.

APK is a zip file. It contains the binary (executable, library) file(s) as well as asset files.
post #178 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by iang1234 View Post


APK is a zip file. It contains the binary (executable, library) file(s) as well as asset files.

 

Do you know if the GUI is part of the binary on Android apps?

post #179 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Do you know if the GUI is part of the binary on Android apps?

The layout files, images, strings, etc are separated from the binaries.
post #180 of 230
THE NEXT BIG THING IS HERE!

I taped 2 samsung phones together and have 64 bit processing. Thanks samsung. I want to be in the commercial next.
post #181 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
 

A couple of things... 

 

First, don't bash Samsung for making junk. Why? The A7 is made by Samung, at least in part if not entirely: http://************/2013/07/31/apples-upcoming-a7-iphone-chip-will-have-samsung-components-code-inside-ios-7-reveals/

 

Second, 64 bit is part of a roadmap for the future, with almost no benefit today. This is true for both Samsung and Apple, but Samsung has reached the critical limit before Apple. That's because their current phones ship with 3GB RAM, almost the 4GB limit. iPhone 5s ships with only 2GB RAM (iPhone 5 has 1GB). Read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57602372-94/the-real-reasons-apples-64-bit-a7-chip-makes-sense/

 

Third, benchmarks show that A7 is twice as fast as A6, which puts it around the same performance as today's Galaxy S4: http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2013/03/samsung-galaxy-s-4-benchmarks/

 

Points to Note.. Samsung's like a labror manufacturing stuff as per Apple design. There is no Samsung R&D involved in this except there machinery involved in fabrication.

 

Samsung device benchmarks cant be trusted coz they have a program , that overclocks there CPU's only before certain benchmark software's run. They don't operate there device full time at that clock speed. If they did it would kill there battery.

 

And your wrong about 64 bit not benifiting apple.

Games like Infinity blade 3 already are 64 bit apps, that use the power of 64 bit computing. Do your research and don't bluntly post links around !

post #182 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
 

The three main things I keep thinking about a 64bit iPhone are:

 

1) Unless you play games, you don't need this "power" at all. 

 

therefore

 

2) It's main, and almost only real use will be in iPads 

 

therefore

 

3) If the next iPads don't have an A7 in them, they kind of have a "negative" before they are even for sale. 

 

Maybe that vague rumour about a second iPad mini update in mid 2014 is because the one they are going to sell next month is only 32 bit and will be obsolete after six months?  

 

Think about using Airplay to view games being played on 64-bit A7 iPhones via Apple TV.

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post #183 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


You might be right, but when nobody is left to copy, consumers will be left with a bunch of crappy products. I told everybody in my house they'd be disowned if ever a Samsung product makes it into my home.

 

Unfortunately Time Warner Cable cursed my household with the laggiest crappiest Samsung cable box you could imagine. Really, the lag in this thing is truly hard to believe. 

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post #184 of 230
Samsung just wants to claiming same hardware as apple, but this just is a random push for more poblisity if software want use it
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydr View Post

Samsung issues press release stating that the next Galaxy S5 will incorporate 64bit CPU, an improve camera and a fingerprint reader. And will come in a variety of colors. -Samsung out.
[/quotit'd only forget a seperate motion proccesor running on dual core.
post #185 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

SamScream's copiers are hot and ready, as usual. It wasn't as if Apple designed and had its 64 chips ready to roar in a weekend but even with Apple's roadmap, the great copier will have its hands full in this little choir. I'm sure Apple's legal teem is up and ready to roar. This side show act will be hailed as progressive by the media. SamO'Sam, charge ahead. 1oyvey.gif

 

So many posters here are just completely naive about how the design of hardware goes.  If Samsung plans on including a 64-bit chip in it, they can't just start now and design the system.  It takes YEARS to design a new processor.  If Apple's releasing the A7 this year, they have probably already started designing the A10 that will come out 3 years from now.  This stuff doesn't happen overnight.  If samsung is capable of building a new chip from scratch in 6 months that has 64-bit capabilities, then they deserve to be the true rulers of the silicon world.  

 

Anyhow, a 64-bit processor just isn't that big of a deal, especially in the mobile space.  It's just now starting to make a difference on desktop processors, and mobile processors lag by at least 4-5 years.  And all of the people who keep reciting that you need a 64-bit processor to handle more than 4GB of RAM are just idiots.  Plenty of 32-bit processors were paired with more than 4GB of RAM.  While an application's virtual address space is limited to 4GB, different applications can have different virtual address spaces.  Internally, the hardware has a 32-bit bus for memory requests, but a separate bus for memory accesses.  I can almost guarantee that apple's memory bus will not support 64-bit addresses... Quite simply, that's a waste of valuable wires that would be pushing 0's.  I'm pretty sure even desktop CPUs /only/ have a 38-bit or so memory address (it's possible this has increased a little bit, but it's definitely far from 64-bits).  This would limit the cpu's address space to 256GB, which is a fair tradeoff, as no single-chip systems will be able to support that much ram in the near future (and by the time they do they'll require new motherboards that won't support the old processors).  By the same logic, old 32-bit CPUs often had a memory address bus that was greater than 32-bits allowing the cpu to address more memory.

 

Phil

post #186 of 230
They are BAD, copy sickness syndrome to the core!
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post #187 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

First, Samsung is one of the mfg Apple uses for producing their proprietary ARM custom chip, beside Apple bought few years ago the R&D teams reponsible for Samsung ARM development, ever since Samsung are using generic and wildly available ARM + GPU design.

Second,  there is a lot more to go with 64bit computing than merely addressing over 4GB of RAM, the terms itself meaning the length of the registers.  Having registers twice as big and twice the numbers as the previous generation, the A7 is a desktop class beast for it's 1 watt power envelope.  Going 64 bits was the best way to push further the ARM platform and eventually every device will be 64 bit.  Apple does it right to be an early adopter.

Third, too bad Android only wins synthetic benchmark, this picture doesn't translate in real life application like browsing and games. This is were you realize that apps won't necessary benefit from adding more core to a CPU

Don't buy the hype.

Stretching architecture from 32 to 64 does not boos performance by default. Some tasks are positioned to take advantage of 64-bit registers - encryption comes to mind - but many are not.

In addition, there is additional complexity of emulation layer required to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit OS. This might introduce a small performance hit (compared to same software running on same hardware with 32-bit OS installed) as well as some compatibility issues.

This new Apple SoC is advertised to be up to 2x faster in CPU and GPU compared to iPhone 5 SoC. I'd be surprised to see it flat-rate 2x faster in everything... but even then, it is still far cry from modern desktop performance. Regardless of "desktop performance" marketing talk.

At this stage, 64-bit architecture is foundation for the future, but with not much short term advantage for iPhone 5s owners - if any. Pretty much every article I came across seems to agree with this.
post #188 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Don't buy the hype.

Stretching architecture from 32 to 64 does not boos performance by default. Some tasks are positioned to take advantage of 64-bit registers - encryption comes to mind - but many are not.

In addition, there is additional complexity of emulation layer required to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit OS. This might introduce a small performance hit (compared to same software running on same hardware with 32-bit OS installed) as well as some compatibility issues.

This new Apple SoC is advertised to be up to 2x faster in CPU and GPU compared to iPhone 5 SoC. I'd be surprised to see it flat-rate 2x faster in everything... but even then, it is still far cry from modern desktop performance. Regardless of "desktop performance" marketing talk.

At this stage, 64-bit architecture is foundation for the future, but with not much short term advantage for iPhone 5s owners - if any. Pretty much every article I came across seems to agree with this.

 

Tell that to Seymour Cray,  I agree going to 64 bit will no automatically double the performance of every task but many task can get benefit from it and since iOS got the richest sets of multimedia and signal processing oriented APIs, current apps will gain some benefit from the 64bit iOS 7 thru API call.  Those are things Apple has done many times in his history; adding functionality and optimization thru API upgrades.  Like the cut and paste feature in example,  once they added functionality, it was available even in older apps pre-dating the features without any intervention of the apps developer. The CPU usage of iOS apps that use standard UI are mostly made of API calls, with Xcode you can actually create a full browser apps without a single line of code, only by linking UI elements directly to API call in the Interface Builder. 

 

In addition, you are wrong.  the ARM 64bit instructions set is an extension of the current 32 bit instructions, just like on x86 processors, your 64bit PC doesn't have to emulate 32 instructions for running 32 bit programs, it run it directly and use only 32 bits of the 64bit available register. But 64bit versions of Windoze does have to run his shit in a VM (SysWoW64), which isn't the case for OSX and iOS.

 

Regarding the performance boost, Apple is very secretive and gives very little technical detail but we know they double the number of register and double their size.  I'm pretty sure other things like the RAM channels and I/O have been upgraded too. Its pretty conceivable to double the overall performance solely by doubling RAM channels and I/O bandwidth alone.

 

Apple has done bigger architecture switch in the past, if we took the PowerMac G5 for example, at time of launch every reviews praise how fast everything was on that new computer even if no apps was updated yet for the G5. Of course things could be different for the iPhone, but one thing for sure, 64bit is there to stay. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/12/13 at 6:10pm
post #189 of 230

I'm kind of surprised by the number of people who are right next to a big reason for switching to 64-bit CPUs but haven't quite nailed it yet:

 

Encryption, as in AES and RSA. My bet is that this is going to be very important very soon as many websites and VPN providers significantly up their encryption levels in order to "NSA-proof" their services. 4096-bit RSA keys, anyone?

 

A 64-bit CPU (especially one with built-in AES encrypt/decrypt) will be able to handle these higher encryption levels all day long without breaking a sweat or killing its battery. You want to web surf nothing but heavily encrypted sites? No problem!

 

Apple could have very well decided to switch to ARMv8 due to their unpleasant behind-the-scenes experiences with the NSA over the last several years, and their desire to provide their customers (and themselves) with an "NSA-proof-ready" iPhone (and iPad, right?). It's not exactly something that Apple could easily market, but it might well be a feature that some of Apple's larger customers are already screaming for right now.

 

 

Also, 64-bit is pretty nice for speech recognition and synthesis. If Apple decides (or has already decided) to move some or all of Siri's processing from their servers to the mobile device, there you go.

 

 

And it lets the CPU speak straight 64-bit with the FPU and GPU. Save a few clock cycles right there.

post #190 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Tell that to Seymour Cray,  I agree going to 64 bit will no automatically double the performance of every task but many task can get benefit from it and since iOS got the richest sets of multimedia oriented APIs, current apps will gain some benefit from the 64bit iOS 7 thru API call.  Those are things Apple has done many times in his history; adding functionality and optimization thru API upgrades.  Like the cut and paste feature in example,  once they added functionality, it was available even in older apps pre-dating the features without any intervention of the apps developer. The CPU usage of iOS apps that use standard UI are mostly made of API calls, with Xcode you can actually create a full browser apps without a single line of code, only by linking UI elements directly to API call in the Interface Builder. 

 

In addition, you are wrong.  the ARM 64bit instructions set is an extension of the current 32 bit instructions, just like on x86 processors, your 64bit PC doesn't have to emulate 32 instructions for running 32 bit programs, it run it directly and use only 32 bits of the 64bit available register. But 64bit versions of Windoze does have to run his shit in a VM (SysWoW64), which isn't the case for OSX and iOS.

 

Regarding the performance boost, Apple is very secretive and gives very little technical detail.  But I'm pretty sure other things like the RAM channels and I/O have been upgraded too. Its pretty conceivable to double the overall performance solely by doubling RAM channels and I/O bandwidth alone. 

 

Apple has done bigger architecture switch in the past, if we took the PowerMac G5 for example, at time of launch every reviews praise how fast everything was on that new computer even if no apps was updated yet for the G5. Of course things could be different for the iPhone, but one thing for sure, 64bit is there to stay. 

 

What did the guys that wrote Infinity Blade say?  They took a real power hungry app and converted it. Wouldn't other games and other apps see similar improvements?

 

The bottom line is they have to do the conversion and the sooner they do this, the sooner EVERYONE will have 64 bit apps.  I think the hardware conversion will take 3 years and then another 2 years to get 90+% of the install base of iOS devices converted.  It WILL take longer to get the Android crowd at the same level of conversion, especially with their piss poor execution of updating OSs on existing hardware.

post #191 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaker's Ugly Brother View Post
 

I'm kind of surprised by the number of people who are right next to a big reason for switching to 64-bit CPUs but haven't quite nailed it yet:

 

Encryption, as in AES and RSA. My bet is that this is going to be very important very soon as many websites and VPN providers significantly up their encryption levels in order to "NSA-proof" their services. 4096-bit RSA keys, anyone?

 

A 64-bit CPU (especially one with built-in AES encrypt/decrypt) will be able to handle these higher encryption levels all day long without breaking a sweat or killing its battery. You want to web surf nothing but heavily encrypted sites? No problem!

 

Apple could have very well decided to switch to ARMv8 due to their unpleasant behind-the-scenes experiences with the NSA over the last several years, and their desire to provide their customers (and themselves) with an "NSA-proof-ready" iPhone (and iPad, right?). It's not exactly something that Apple could easily market, but it might well be a feature that some of Apple's larger customers are already screaming for right now.

 

 

Also, 64-bit is pretty nice for speech recognition and synthesis. If Apple decides (or has already decided) to move some or all of Siri's processing from their servers to the mobile device, there you go.

 

 

And it lets the CPU speak straight 64-bit with the FPU and GPU. Save a few clock cycles right there.

 

Thats a nice thought, while I agree encryption is an important aspect for high-end processing, I am not sure Apple's thinking behind rushing 64bit mobiles to market as being affected by this since nearly all mobile SoC got 128bit SIMDs more fits for encrypting-decrypting data streams than using the CPU ALU. 

 

Just like the Athlon64, G5 or Core2Duo, even with unoptimized softwares for 64 bit platform, upgrading to 64bit hardware gives an overall oomph and somewhat a maturity over previous generations.

 

There is not a lots of way for boosting CPU performance, I counts 3: raise frequency, adding core, adding logics.  We all know raising frequency got its limits, I thinks Apple chooses the sane way by going 64 bit before multiplicating cores too much. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 9/12/13 at 7:03pm
post #192 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaker's Ugly Brother View Post

Encryption, as in AES and RSA. My bet is that this is going to be very important very soon as many websites and VPN providers significantly up their encryption levels in order to "NSA-proof" their services. 4096-bit RSA keys, anyone?

A 64-bit CPU (especially one with built-in AES encrypt/decrypt) will be able to handle these higher encryption levels all day long without breaking a sweat or killing its battery. You want to web surf nothing but heavily encrypted sites? No problem!

Apple could have very well decided to switch to ARMv8 due to their unpleasant behind-the-scenes experiences with the NSA over the last several years, and their desire to provide their customers (and themselves) with an "NSA-proof-ready" iPhone (and iPad, right?). It's not exactly something that Apple could easily market, but it might well be a feature that some of Apple's larger customers are already screaming for right now.


Also, 64-bit is pretty nice for speech recognition and synthesis. If Apple decides (or has already decided) to move some or all of Siri's processing from their servers to the mobile device, there you go.


And it lets the CPU speak straight 64-bit with the FPU and GPU. Save a few clock cycles right there.

First, when it comes to encryption, the boost from 64bit is somewhat significant, but if you want to accelerate aes you add new instructions (like intel has with their cpus), or add a coprocessor onto the SoC. the performance will blow away what the CPU can do, and more importantly, it will burn far less power.

As for the NSA, apple is in bed with them already, and that isnt likely to change. Honestly, i think apple would be more likely to add backdoors in ios than the odds of the same happening to android. The advantage of open source is that the tinfoil hat people can, and will check out the code.

Phil
post #193 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

But 64bit versions of Windoze does have to run his shit in a VM (SysWoW64), which isn't the case for OSX and iOS.

From what I understand (well, after reading Wikipedia), SysWoW64 is not a VM. It's a set of compatibility libraries etc that makes running 32bit apps on 64bit os possible.

As you said, OS X and iOS do this by packing libraries for different archs into fat binaries. Windows (and Linux, and possibly Android as well) take different approach by providing them in separate files. Same idea, different approach.
post #194 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but our own NSA far outstrips China and Russia in terms of hacking, spying and built-in backdoor access.

I doubt they'd empty your bank account though.
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post #195 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Don't buy the hype.

Stretching architecture from 32 to 64 does not boos performance by default. Some tasks are positioned to take advantage of 64-bit registers - encryption comes to mind - but many are not.

In addition, there is additional complexity of emulation layer required to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit OS. This might introduce a small performance hit (compared to same software running on same hardware with 32-bit OS installed) as well as some compatibility issues.

This new Apple SoC is advertised to be up to 2x faster in CPU and GPU compared to iPhone 5 SoC. I'd be surprised to see it flat-rate 2x faster in everything... but even then, it is still far cry from modern desktop performance. Regardless of "desktop performance" marketing talk.

At this stage, 64-bit architecture is foundation for the future, but with not much short term advantage for iPhone 5s owners - if any. Pretty much every article I came across seems to agree with this.

I have to chuckle. I read the exact same thing said when 16 bit desktop OSs came out.
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post #196 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
 

A couple of things... 

 

First, don't bash Samsung for making junk. Why? The A7 is made by Samung, at least in part if not entirely: http://************/2013/07/31/apples-upcoming-a7-iphone-chip-will-have-samsung-components-code-inside-ios-7-reveals/

 

Second, 64 bit is part of a roadmap for the future, with almost no benefit today. This is true for both Samsung and Apple, but Samsung has reached the critical limit before Apple. That's because their current phones ship with 3GB RAM, almost the 4GB limit. iPhone 5s ships with only 2GB RAM (iPhone 5 has 1GB). Read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57602372-94/the-real-reasons-apples-64-bit-a7-chip-makes-sense/

 

Third, benchmarks show that A7 is twice as fast as A6, which puts it around the same performance as today's Galaxy S4: http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2013/03/samsung-galaxy-s-4-benchmarks/

 

Classic troll activity - Samsung makes the A7 but it is designed by Apple.

 

The chip IS significant - especially looking at the fingerprint reader and the new phone capabilities - 64 bit makes these excellent upgrades possible. Further, we need to wait and see what else is going to be available that will capitalize on all the functionality and benefits of it.

 

Hello, Samsung cheated with the S4 on its benchmark tests! Try to keep up, or quit doing the evil work of a troll!

post #197 of 230
I just can't wait to see what kind of crappy 64bit offering Samsbung comes out with.
post #198 of 230
Is it possible that, while manufacturing and testing the A7, Sammy didn't know it was 64-bit?
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post #199 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Is it possible that, while manufacturing and testing the A7, Sammy didn't know it was 64-bit?

Without having any knowledge on this subject, the manufacturing process and all unknowns to me, this seems unlikely. Even though it also does 32 bit as well, there's no way to test a chip without testing all its capabilities, I'd say. But could be wrong.

What I want to know is why that stupid journalist from that Korean newspaper didn't ask them when they decided on making a 64 bit smartphone.
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post #200 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Is it possible that, while manufacturing and testing the A7, Sammy didn't know it was 64-bit?

I highly doubt it. A 32 bit processor has 8 lines of connections on each side and since a processor is square that makes it 8x4=32 whereas a 64 bit processor has 16 lines on each side, 16x4=64. Obviously there's more to than just that but Samsung absolutely knew what they were manufacturing for Apple.
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  • Not to be outdone by Apple's iPhone 5s, Samsung pledges 64-bit chips in next Galaxy phones
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