or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Hands-on with the new 64-bit A7-powered iPhone 5s with new M7, camera features & Touch ID
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hands-on with the new 64-bit A7-powered iPhone 5s with new M7, camera features & Touch ID - Page 4

post #121 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Rocking? People still use that term?

Galaxy phones? People still use that term? lol.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #122 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutoneon View Post

"The days of "lol iPhone doesn't have X or Y feature" are over."

You're smoking crack if you don't think there's a huge unmet demand for larger screened iPhones.

They are losing their cachet big-time by having only one small form factor. Just because you and I don't need a bigger screen doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. I meet people all the time who want a bigger screen so that they can see easier. Women, especially. They carry purses and handbags, and have plenty of room for a bigger phone.

They've gotten way too conservative. They need to aggressively address their weak spots, not simply declare that they're actually strengths.

 

For those that want a bigger screen it is surely not for talking into so what Apple should do to address that perception of unmet market is simply highlight their LTE iPad mini. Especially since given that there is no expensive (and unused for big screen buyers) voice plan the overall costs of the thing will be substantially less than a phablet.

 

More agression in the marketing department would be welcome.

post #123 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post
 

 

"Not sure what the RAM is on it either but I doubt it is 4GB or more. More like 2GB! You need that for operating it in 64 bit mode;" NO YOU DON'T - READ THE ARTCLE.

 

You are right though. The S5 is missing lots of vital features. It has no tele-transporter, no patoto peeler, no Swiss Army Knife, no x-ray, nothing to inflate my tyres, no bottle opener, no water bottle, no shoe horn, no steam iron, not even a key to unlock my front door, or even a sponge to wipe your silly butt. ..... ZZZZZZZZ.

 

The tire inflator is a must-have for me.

post #124 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

 

For those that want a bigger screen it is surely not for talking into so what Apple should do to address that perception of unmet market is simply highlight their LTE iPad mini. Especially since given that there is no expensive (and unused for big screen buyers) voice plan the overall costs of the thing will be substantially less than a phablet.

 

More agression in the marketing department would be welcome.

 

A larger screen does not equal a large phone.

 

Apple could fit a 4.9 inch bezel free screen in 4.27in x 2.4in frame.

Current dimensions of 5s are 4.9 x 2.33

 

iPhone 3G/3GS were 2.4in wide.


Edited by patpatpat - 9/13/13 at 11:05am
post #125 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

A larger screen does not equal a large phone.

 

Apple could fit a 4.9 inch bezel free screen in 4.27in x 2.4in frame.

Current dimensions of 5s are 4.9 x 2.33

 

iPhone 3G/3GS were 2.4in wide.

 

But it does equal a large screen mobile computing device which is what I suggested people are desiring when they want a larger "phone" given the decline in actual voice messages. So the thiought being some one wants "big" why not go BIG? and, of course, cheaper.

post #126 of 158
Originally Posted by Adam Foosaner View Post
 

***Full disclosure*** - I used to own a Galaxy S4 and ended up not liking it. That is why I am switching to the iPhone 5s, since it is a product that works better for me. However, I can see why many other people enjoy the Galaxy series of phones so I do not hold hate for having diversity in the industry. 

 

Am I the only person who follows this site that believes that Apple Insider takes things too far sometimes with the bashing of other companies? Am I wrong to ask for a more professional style of writing?

 

Welcome to Apple Insider!  We all enjoyed your excellent "Voice of Reason" troll.  

 

You managed to avoid the usual cookie-cutter "concern troll" formula (e.g. "I love Apple but I fear that the iPhone 5C will spell doom for the company because...") and also the usual mindless Samsung copy-and-paste-talk-points ("1. Screen is too small, 2. 64-bits means nothing, 3. No Samsung toaster-fridge integration", etc.)  There have been quite a few trollish comments here on Apple Insider, some more obvious than others, of the above two types.

 

But there are relatively few "Voice of Reason" trolls.  Because most trolls attack Apple and its products, which of course makes it impossible for them to appear reasonable and "unbiased."  And also because "being reasonable" does little if anything to turn the tide.  And trolls (the paid trolls, that is) seek to disrupt a site's reader base and to subvert their opinions.  And yes, the entities who pay trolls just might expect to see their brand name and product name(s) in troll comments.  I noticed both "Samsung" and "Galaxy S4" in your comment.  Good job!

 

Blogs are about opinions.   This is a pro-Apple blog, not an "unbiased" font of journalistic truth (although much of what Apple Insider publishes does eventually turn out to be true.)  And if Apple Insider's opinions aren't watered down enough for you, then I'm sure there are thousands of other blogs that are.  It's a big wide world out there.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #127 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

The tire inflator is a must-have for me.

 

Don't worry. Build it and they will come.

 

In the meantime, this could help get you started. 

post #128 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by OakhamMD View Post
 

 

Don't worry. Build it and they will come.

 

In the meantime, this could help get you started. 

 

Hah! Thanks! My car is just old enough it doesn't have that built-in and I am a tad tire inflation obsessed.

post #129 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I think this need can be better served with an iPad Mini that can make and receive phone calls. MHO.

 

I wopnder what sort of extra effort that would take given it's already available with LTE?

 

By that size I've no interest in voice but, yeah, I expect some would. Then maybe wireless earpieces would finally take off....

post #130 of 158
The NSA's new favorite device, ever!
post #131 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

 

But it does equal a large screen mobile computing device which is what I suggested people are desiring when they want a larger "phone" given the decline in actual voice messages. So the thiought being some one wants "big" why not go BIG? and, of course, cheaper.

 

I think people want big but in a pocket sized package. I don't think an iPad-mini is practical to carry around without a bag.

post #132 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

DED -- Good article.

It was factual, concise, informative and gathered and fleshed-out information from several sources.

The short videos were good -- but the "hands on" title was a bit deceptive.

 

What did you find deceptive?

post #133 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

5S does not come with 128Gb storage option; nor does it come with WiFi standard 802.11ac. No IGZO screen either. Not sure what the RAM is on it either but I doubt it is 4GB or more. More like 2GB! You need that for operating it in 64 bit mode; but there are no 64 bit Apple iPhone apps either so that explains the lack of RAM %u2013 Checking on the price of RAM; going from 2 to 4GB cost around $30 -(retail)

 

All the apps on the iPhone 5s will be 64-bit. And it will not be difficult for third parties to enhance their apps. Even if a specific app has little to gain from moving to 64-bit, it will still work against Apple's 64-bit system libraries and benefit from more efficient compiling via Xcode's support for the modernized 64-bit ARMv8/AArch64 instruction set.

The move to 64-bit in desktop Intel/PPC systems was largely motivated by the 4GB barrier of addressable RAM. That's not the case in mobile devices. There is an entirely different motive for moving to 64-bit ARM. Stop repeating what you think you know and read about it.

post #134 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypercommunist View Post

In what way is this a "hands on" article? It just repeats info from the keynote, with some background information.

 

If you look at the pictures and videos you'll see the iPhone 5s on a hand. The ones without fingernails are DED, but most of the time the hands on the device were the presenter while we were filming. The quality of the videos is greatly diminished by YouTube processing.

post #135 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExceptionHandler View Post
 

Apple Insider isnt the main problem.  Most of the authors do not do what you described above.  They are usually tactful.  That said, I have largely started to avoid articles written by Daniel Eran Dilger for various reasons, including the reason you have stated.  I love apple products and reading about them; I am not fond of android products, but there are occasionally neat uses for it, however I would never own an android phone, tablet, or set top box. I do not think it's is necessary for constant bashing I see in his articles, regardless if I agree with the position or not (I do agree that samsung and google have largely and blatantly copied apple's designs in many areas).

 

I can usually spot the articles he has written just by the title, but once in a while I get click baited or I'll see one that may be interesting, but I go into the article expecting to filter out some drivel.

 

I'm so glad your signature advocates Creationism and Young Earth. Please feel free to insult us with all the arrogant huffing about our "drivel" that you can generate, but leave that signature in place. 

post #136 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Money View Post

Which version is for T-Mobile?

 

It's the same as the AT&T/Verizon model, A1533. 

 

T-mobile US uses LTE band 4, aka AWS

 

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

post #137 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by BearzJack View Post
 

having a 64 bit chip does absolutely nothing, even with 2x size of registeres, because 64bit instructions are 2x size instructions, so they will fill up registers twice as fast as well, you'll get most of the time get no performance increase in All 32bit application, most 64bit applications.  The ONLY time you'll possibly get any performance advantage is when its a 64bit application that uses a certain 64bit instructions (RARE) , and even that is a guess.

 

Additionally, you WILL run out of memory as with only 1gb of it, which is really the bottleneck of the system.  

 

overall, you'l likely feel a performance decrease with most applications.  32bit application run slower due to conversion, 64bit application run slower due to insufficient memory.

 

Read up about ARMv8 and how large its instructions are. Or just read the article. 

 

Do you really think that Apple would release a high end phone with an inappropriately-scaled chip architecture that delivered no benefit, just because Samsung did this summer? Come now, that's pretty preposterous.  

post #138 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydr View Post

DED, I got your fingerprint now. ;-)

 

But they don't know who the fingerprint belongs to since it was a demo iPhone.  The fingerprint is stored on the phone and not on servers.

 

Who cares if they have access to your fingerprints.  I have gone through security clearance where they took my photo and fingerprints, and?  No one has come after me.  Some people are just a LITTLE, or maybe a LOT paranoid.  If you do things that are illegal, then you have reason to be paranoid and think what you are thinking.  let me ask you a question.    Do you do things that are illegal?  If so, then maybe you should stop.  Then you won't be so paranoid.  Also, drugs and alcohol lead to paranoid thoughts and behavior, so think about what you consume.

post #139 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Also, drugs and alcohol lead to paranoid thoughts and behavior, so think about what you consume.

Huh, where did that come from? Is he an addict/user?
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
post #140 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Huh, where did that come from? Is he an addict/user?

 

Some people make comments that are from consuming drugs/alcohol as that creates paranoia which is what a lot of people have over fingerprint ID, and other security issues.

post #141 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

@ExceptionHandler And dishing out some well-deserved punches to Samsung are one of the reasons I enjoy DED's articles.

Maybe y'all missed the part of recent history where we see Samsung copying, denying copying, spreading lies about Apple products and their buyers, orchestrating evil anti-Apple PR campaigns, and contributing to the devaluation of Apple stock.

Most journalists have to ignore all this stuff out of their pretense of objectivity. Daniel is more in the tradition of the pugnacious muckrakers of the early 20th century. We need such people to correct injustice, which we are seeing plenty of these days coming from Samsung. It's a struggle for good to prevail in the world, and you guys, including Dick Applebaum, are getting all prissy about it.

@Flaneur I see your point, but I think the Macalope does an exceeding better job than DED when it comes to throwing punches. Just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I'm so glad your signature advocates Creationism and Young Earth. Please feel free to insult us with all the arrogant huffing about our "drivel" that you can generate, but leave that signature in place. 

First off, this does not address the issue we were talking about. Rather you set up a straw man attack to discredit my opinion about DED's writing style. Again, I don't disagree with with many of the stances he takes with apple, google, and samsung; just in the manner that he approaches it. This among other things (other stances with other things outside of the scope of tech that DED has commented on) is what deters me from his articles. I also was not necessarily targeting those who are commenting here as well. Comments, by their very nature are going to be polarized and biased, so I expect it there. The drivel I speak of is DEDs writing style and how he addresses the issues at hand. Again, in my opinion the macalope does much better in this area. This has nothing to do with me being a creationist.

I am glad that you at least took the time to read my signature. I am unashamedly a follower of Christ and a creationist. However I do not condem those who have other walks such as evolution, Buddhism, or something else. They are going to follow what they are going to follow. I can't change that and it's in no way my place to judge especially since I used to be an atheist. I am merely trying to spread the word about my experience and belief, I apologize if you felt threatened or attacked by my signature, but I will leave it as it stands because that is my viewpoint of which I am not willing to bend on.

If we could, let's try to keep the discussion focused on apple and related technology instead of arguing differences of belief, because I'm betting you are not willing to budge on you standpoint which is ok. I'm not here to convert others.

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

Reply

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

Reply
post #142 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExceptionHandler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

@ExceptionHandler And dishing out some well-deserved punches to Samsung are one of the reasons I enjoy DED's articles.

Maybe y'all missed the part of recent history where we see Samsung copying, denying copying, spreading lies about Apple products and their buyers, orchestrating evil anti-Apple PR campaigns, and contributing to the devaluation of Apple stock.

Most journalists have to ignore all this stuff out of their pretense of objectivity. Daniel is more in the tradition of the pugnacious muckrakers of the early 20th century. We need such people to correct injustice, which we are seeing plenty of these days coming from Samsung. It's a struggle for good to prevail in the world, and you guys, including Dick Applebaum, are getting all prissy about it.

@Flaneur I see your point, but I think the Macalope does an exceeding better job than DED when it comes to throwing punches. Just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I'm so glad your signature advocates Creationism and Young Earth. Please feel free to insult us with all the arrogant huffing about our "drivel" that you can generate, but leave that signature in place. 

First off, this does not address the issue we were talking about. Rather you set up a straw man attack to discredit my opinion about DED's writing style. Again, I don't disagree with with many of the stances he takes with apple, google, and samsung; just in the manner that he approaches it. This among other things (other stances with other things outside of the scope of tech that DED has commented on) is what deters me from his articles. I also was not necessarily targeting those who are commenting here as well. Comments, by their very nature are going to be polarized and biased, so I expect it there. The drivel I speak of is DEDs writing style and how he addresses the issues at hand. Again, in my opinion the macalope does much better in this area. This has nothing to do with me being a creationist.

I am glad that you at least took the time to read my signature. I am unashamedly a follower of Christ and a creationist. However I do not condem those who have other walks such as evolution, Buddhism, or something else. They are going to follow what they are going to follow. I can't change that and it's in no way my place to judge especially since I used to be an atheist. I am merely trying to spread the word about my experience and belief, I apologize if you felt threatened or attacked by my signature, but I will leave it as it stands because that is my viewpoint of which I am not willing to bend on.

If we could, let's try to keep the discussion focused on apple and related technology instead of arguing differences of belief, because I'm betting you are not willing to budge on you standpoint which is ok. I'm not here to convert others.

@ExceptionHandler... You are new to AI forums and may not know that the author of this article Daniel Eran Dilger AKA DED and @Corrections are the same person. DED also publishes articles on AI using the pseudonyms of Prince McLean and Mickey Campbell -- whom he often quotes to give the appearance that his biases and agenda have the consensus of "settled science".

I do not understand why AI allows DED to continue this farce.

I am especially offended when DED uses @Corrections to insult a poster with a differing opinion or lifestyle.

Each time, encountered, I report it to AI as offensive and @Corrections is on my block list.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #143 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

@ExceptionHandler... You are new to AI forums and may not know that the author of this article Daniel Eran Dilger AKA DED and @Corrections are the same person. DED also publishes articles on AI using the pseudonyms of Prince McLean and Mickey Campbell -- whom he often quotes to give the appearance that his biases and agenda have the consensus of "settled science".

I do not understand why AI allows DED to continue this farce.

I am especially offended when DED uses @Corrections to insult a poster with a differing opinion or lifestyle.

Each time, encountered, I report it to AI as offensive and @Corrections is on my block list.

I see. Makes a bit more sense now. Thank you for the clarification.

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

Reply

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

Reply
post #144 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by OakhamMD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by faZZter View Post

 
Bigger screen so that they can see easier? Exactly! It is also nice just to have a little more screen real estate to see things like spreadsheets or read web pages.  I already switched to a Lumia 920 last year and the size is not an issue. (I am not saying it is the perfect phone, but it does have some great features not found on Apples phones) Besides this most of the time I "talk" on the phone it is through bluetooth in the car, so the size doesn't matter at all.

In fact I use the phone as a portable computer much more than a phone. I hardly make any phone calls except when I really need to. Most messaging is texts for me.  However I still wish Apple would get it together and offer what a lot of people want.....a 4.8-5" iPhone. Not an iPhone 5c with a big screen, but the top tier iPhone with a larger screen.  They are making billions, why not make even more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutoneon View Post

 
Have you failed to notice how many people are rocking Galaxy phones these days?  They're everywhere.  If that's a niche market, I'll take it.

No they are not. And I get around North America and China. A lot. Quite a lot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by connector View Post

Then why not just get an iPad mini with your iPhone. As i type this with my thumb with one hand on my iPhone.

Agree. In fact, and unfortunately that's how my wife sees it.




So far, I have bought every iteration of the iPhone: upgrading and passing down to rest of the family. When I got the iPad mini for my wife, she handed back our dual owner iPad. When I am on my computer programming, I use the iPad/DisplayPad as a fourth screen particularly for making international calls via Skype.

Now, I would like to upgrade to the 5S, but the better half says she doesn't want or need my 5. We have a family plan and share data. Have yet to exceed the monthly allowance. So in effect, each of the older iPhones are 'free'. Can't argue with her (that would never be a winning strategy). She uses her iPhone seldomly. And her iPad all day and night. 

Her solution. Best you get another kid…along with your new wife.

LOL!  We have more iPhones and iPads than people in our home.   I will get the 5S for the camera, TouchID and 64-bit... but, being a widower, I no longer have the SWMBO issue. 1biggrin.gif
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #145 of 158

Great article with lots of interesting information that triggered a good discussion.

I am certainly in line to buy the new 5S

Refreshing to have a media outlet that goes deep and against the current. Instead of criticising colors or materials to say Apple innovation is stalled, here I find relevant and well researched information.

 

Thank you

post #146 of 158

Can whoever deleted my post in this thread without affording me the courtesy of a brief explanation why please explain which part of the post was deemed 'inappropriate language'?

 

I didn't use vulgar words or insult anybody's person; I merely commented that the article read like the expression of a personal vendetta. It doesn't say much for this site if you're going to post divisive articles and then delete dissenting responses. Is this forum a place for debate, or is it a place for a group of people with exactly the same outlook on the technology industry to agree with each other ad infinitum?

 

Moderators shouldn't delete posts because they disagree with the views expressed. It is a flagrant abuse of power. Either point out the rule I have broken or reinstate the post.

post #147 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Can whoever deleted my post in this thread without affording me the courtesy of a brief explanation why please explain which part of the post was deemed 'inappropriate language'?

I didn't use vulgar words or insult anybody's person; I merely commented that the article read like the expression of a personal vendetta. It doesn't say much for this site if you're going to post divisive articles and then delete dissenting responses. Is this forum a place for debate, or is it a place for a group of people with exactly the same outlook on the technology industry to agree with each other ad infinitum?

Moderators shouldn't delete posts because they disagree with the views expressed. It is a flagrant abuse of power. Either point out the rule I have broken or reinstate the post.

I must've missed it. But I think you'd get (better) results by sending this to a mod, as opposed to posting this stuff here. Reads a bit...inappropriate.
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
post #148 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But I think you'd get (better) results by sending this to a mod, as opposed to posting this stuff here. 

 

You're right, that would be more appropriate. However, I can't find information about who moderates this sub-forum. Also (unlike most other forums I've used), there is no indication of which moderator deleted the post.

 

All this makes the right of reply quite limited.

post #149 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Can whoever deleted my post in this thread without affording me the courtesy of a brief explanation why please explain which part of the post was deemed 'inappropriate language'?

I didn't use vulgar words or insult anybody's person; I merely commented that the article read like the expression of a personal vendetta. It doesn't say much for this site if you're going to post divisive articles and then delete dissenting responses. Is this forum a place for debate, or is it a place for a group of people with exactly the same outlook on the technology industry to agree with each other ad infinitum?

Moderators shouldn't delete posts because they disagree with the views expressed. It is a flagrant abuse of power. Either point out the rule I have broken or reinstate the post.

When you say that an article is 'red meat for the faithful', you are not only insulting the author of the article but the people who liked the articles. Whenever you imply religiosity or some kind of cultish hunger for what you suggest is uninformative then you are being disrespectful. If you don't like the article because it's uninformative and consider it an opinion piece then ignore it; if you think an article is flawed then point out flaws in it and back up your objection.

On the subject of article authors being forum members, this is entirely up to the authors if they want to do this, it happens on a number of blogs. They aren't secondary accounts. Mikey Cambell has posted on the forum here:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159395/silver-ring-around-iphone-5s-home-button-may-be-integral-to-fingerprint-reader-not-just-for-looks#post_2391415

If they use anonymous IDs or aliases like have been used in articles, again that's up to them and they have every right to defend themselves against attacks from other members. Anything that is said against an author is treated just as it would be said towards another member and they are allowed to respond in kind.
post #150 of 158

Thanks for responding, Marvin.

 

I wouldn't exactly call the article uninformative. DED knows his subject area pretty well, and I often learn things from his work.

 

My issue is more with his tone. Describing critics of Apple as 'parade rainmakers' offering 'shill contempt' simply isn't very professional, in my opinion. This sort of angry commentary certainly implies dogma, if not religiosity. It is itself disrespectful and insulting of those who hold differing opinions on Apple products.

 

My point is that if the site permits emotionally-invested articles which are laced with disdain and disrespect for critics, then there really can't be much complaint when such critics respond in similar fashion through the means open to them.

post #151 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

^ post

That actually makes sense. And seems fair; good points, thanks.
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
Reply
post #152 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

My issue is more with his tone. Describing critics of Apple as 'parade rainmakers' offering 'shill contempt' simply isn't very professional, in my opinion. This sort of angry commentary certainly implies dogma, if not religiosity. It is itself disrespectful and insulting of those who hold differing opinions on Apple products.

My point is that if the site permits emotionally-invested articles which are laced with disdain and disrespect for critics, then there really can't be much complaint when such critics respond in similar fashion through the means open to them.

If this was a neutral blog like Gizmodo or Engadget then I'd agree that articles would be better presented in a neutral way but this is a blog about Apple and weighted in favor of people who are Apple fans. If people read the language directed at Apple critics and don't like it, then it's usually (but not always) the case that they are Windows and/or Android users and are not really the target audience for the site because their interest in Apple is typically in seeing Apple fail. This site isn't here to invite critics of Apple nor is it intended to be a neutral site about Apple. Windows/Android users often come here thinking that they should be able to say whatever they like. There are degrees of freedom in any discussion and criticism isn't stifled here much but fans of any particular thing get tired of hearing the same kind of attacks over and over. In this example about 64-bit, we have the same issue that crops up every time where commenters elsewhere say things like "Apple didn't invent 64-bit" (someone actually wrote that) and people look for obscure examples of someone else getting to market first like:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with-the-worlds-fastest-smartphone-the-huawei-ascend-d-quad

Feb 26, 2012 - "Even more impressive is that the K3V2 is a 64-bit processor, rather than the standard 32-bit offered in other phones. Huawei said it developed the processor in-house with a partner company, but was coy about naming which company it was."

This was ARMv7 so not likely fully 64-bit and 32-bit software but they use the example all the same because it fits their conclusion that Apple doesn't invent anything or push the industry forward. It's the same tired old way of diminishing Apple's success. Apple is driving a large change of a flagship product to have 64-bit apps, OS and full 64-bit hardware and this hasn't been done in the market and Apple can do it in one update. When Apple critics publish articles or comments trying to play down the move to 64-bit then reporters here have every right to counter them. They can use a professional tone but that's usually boring and doesn't get people emotional about it. Should critics be emotional in response? They can be, but on blogs and forums intended for Apple critics. Same way that on Android forums that run "anything but Apple" competitions:

http://www.androidcentral.com/it-s-our-fifth-annual-anything-apple-giveaway

they aren't setting articles up as an invitation for criticism from fans of competing products. It's not that this kind of thing means the entire site is closed off from rational debate and in need of people to correct that, some people just like having places to share appreciation of a particular thing with like-minded people. I can see that some Apple fans will also have an issue with the tone of the article as it reflects on the community here to an extent but there needs to be forceful articles put out into the media to strongly counter the ones that attack Apple at every turn and I think Daniel's articles fit the bill.
post #153 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

My issue is more with his tone. Describing critics of Apple as 'parade rainmakers' offering 'shill contempt' simply isn't very professional, in my opinion. This sort of angry commentary certainly implies dogma, if not religiosity. It is itself disrespectful and insulting of those who hold differing opinions on Apple products.

My point is that if the site permits emotionally-invested articles which are laced with disdain and disrespect for critics, then there really can't be much complaint when such critics respond in similar fashion through the means open to them.

If this was a neutral blog like Gizmodo or Engadget then I'd agree that articles would be better presented in a neutral way but this is a blog about Apple and weighted in favor of people who are Apple fans. If people read the language directed at Apple critics and don't like it, then it's usually (but not always) the case that they are Windows and/or Android users and are not really the target audience for the site because their interest in Apple is typically in seeing Apple fail. This site isn't here to invite critics of Apple nor is it intended to be a neutral site about Apple. Windows/Android users often come here thinking that they should be able to say whatever they like. There are degrees of freedom in any discussion and criticism isn't stifled here much but fans of any particular thing get tired of hearing the same kind of attacks over and over. In this example about 64-bit, we have the same issue that crops up every time where commenters elsewhere say things like "Apple didn't invent 64-bit" (someone actually wrote that) and people look for obscure examples of someone else getting to market first like:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with-the-worlds-fastest-smartphone-the-huawei-ascend-d-quad

Feb 26, 2012 - "Even more impressive is that the K3V2 is a 64-bit processor, rather than the standard 32-bit offered in other phones. Huawei said it developed the processor in-house with a partner company, but was coy about naming which company it was."

This was ARMv7 so not likely fully 64-bit and 32-bit software but they use the example all the same because it fits their conclusion that Apple doesn't invent anything or push the industry forward. It's the same tired old way of diminishing Apple's success. Apple is driving a large change of a flagship product to have 64-bit apps, OS and full 64-bit hardware and this hasn't been done in the market and Apple can do it in one update. When Apple critics publish articles or comments trying to play down the move to 64-bit then reporters here have every right to counter them. They can use a professional tone but that's usually boring and doesn't get people emotional about it. Should critics be emotional in response? They can be, but on blogs and forums intended for Apple critics. Same way that on Android forums that run "anything but Apple" competitions:

http://www.androidcentral.com/it-s-our-fifth-annual-anything-apple-giveaway

they aren't setting articles up as an invitation for criticism from fans of competing products. It's not that this kind of thing means the entire site is closed off from rational debate and in need of people to correct that, some people just like having places to share appreciation of a particular thing with like-minded people. I can see that some Apple fans will also have an issue with the tone of the article as it reflects on the community here to an extent but there needs to be forceful articles put out into the media to strongly counter the ones that attack Apple at every turn and I think Daniel's articles fit the bill.

I agree that "there needs to be forceful articles put out into the media to strongly counter the ones that attack Apple at every turn" and that sometimes "Daniel's articles fit the bill".

I complimented DED on this article, though I think the "Hands On" designation is deceptive.

What I do not like are the DED articles that stretch or elide the truth, frequently quoting himself (or one of his alter egos) to give the perception of consensus or settled science.

After a while it becomes tedious or offensive. It took me several years to reach this conclusion -- by following DED, on his blog roughlydrafted.com, and here on AI (under his names Daniel Eran Dilger, Prince McLean, Mickey Campbell and Corrections). Now, I can often tell from the headline that the article is written by DED -- and after reading a paragraph, or so, decide whether the article is worth of reading and discussion... or if it is just another DED diatribe ProTrolling his own agenda and biases -- often playing fast and loose with the facts. Currently, about 50% of the time, I just move on -- who needs this crap?


As an example of what I am talking about:
Quote:
Sunday, July 14, 2013, 11:33 am PT (02:33 pm ET)

Editorial: Google's Android haunted by Steve Jobs' warnings on app signing security
By Daniel Eran Dilger

In May 2007, I interviewed Steve Jobs on the subject of native apps for the iPhone months before the new phone first went on sale. Six years later, his answers are now haunting Google's rival Android platform because the search giant has failed to heed the advice leaking from the top of Apple's ship.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/14/editorial-googles-android-haunted-by-steve-jobs-warnings-on-app-signing-security


I did read the article and posted asking for a citation.

Others posted that they were present at an Apple Shareholders meeting and, apparently, DED pushed others aside to grab the microphone and ask Steve a question,

That was hardly an interview -- so the entire premise of the article fails.

Why bother?
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #154 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If people read the language directed at Apple critics and don't like it, then it's usually (but not always) the case that they are Windows and/or Android users and are not really the target audience for the site because their interest in Apple is typically in seeing Apple fail.

 

I don't see why we have to categorise people in such a binary way. I use both OS X and Windows 7; I like both and can see that each has advantages and disadvantages. Equally, I use an iPhone, but I can see that Android does some things better (and other things worse).

 

The problem with dividing people into 'us and them' is that it becomes almost impossible to have an objective discussion about the industry, because you can't criticise Apple without people assuming that you want to see them fail. Why would an Android user typically want to see Apple fail? That doesn't make sense. Most people aren't nearly that emotionally invested. At the end of the day, we're talking about a phone. It's metal and glass and transistors and source code, not life or death. 

 

I also find it a bit dubious from a discussion perspective if DED has several different personas on the same site. It can easily give the impression that a point of view has more support than it actually does, which is why most forums discourage or prohibit it.


Edited by Euphonious - 9/15/13 at 3:55pm
post #155 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If people read the language directed at Apple critics and don't like it, then it's usually (but not always) the case that they are Windows and/or Android users and are not really the target audience for the site because their interest in Apple is typically in seeing Apple fail.

I don't see why we have to categorise people in such a binary way. I use both OS X and Windows 7; I like both and can see that each has advantages and disadvantages. Equally, I use an iPhone, but I can see that Android does some things better (and other things worse).

The problem with dividing people into 'us and them' is that it becomes almost impossible to have an objective discussion about the industry, because you can't criticise Apple without people assuming that you want to see them fail. Why would an Android user typically want to see Apple fail? That doesn't make sense. Most people aren't nearly that emotionally invested. At the end of the day, we're talking about a phone. It's metal and glass and transistors and source code, not life or death. 

I also find it a bit dubious from a discussion perspective if DED has several different personas on the same site. It can easily give the impression that a point of view has more support than it actually does, which is why most forums discourage or prohibit it.

I agree with this...

Though, periodically, this site is inundated with posters whose sole purpose appears to be to denigrate anything Apple and muddy the waters to prevent any kind of reasoned discussion. Often there will be several people doing this -- supporting each other in ping-pong or tag team fashion.

This happens often enough that the "regulars" are over-sensitive to a possible onslaught.

DED, sometimes, posts good articles -- and they are frequently linked by other sites.


Often, though, DED publishes articles that stretch the truth or ignore facts -- and, IMO, they do a disservice to Apple, Apple supporters, AI and those seeking facts reasoned discussion.


Even with all this dissonance, I have not found a better site than AI for discussion of "things Apple"... but I am actively looking!
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #156 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think the "Hands On" designation is deceptive.

You mean because he wasn't holding the phone? I think it still qualifies as a hands-on when it's someone else's hands. It usually just means an interactive demo of the product. Maybe "eyes on" would have been more appropriate but that typically just means photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euponious 
I don't see why we have to categorise people in such a binary way. I use both OS X and Windows 7; I like both and can see that each has advantages and disadvantages. Equally, I use an iPhone, but I can see that Android does some things better (and other things worse).

The problem with dividing people into 'us and them' is that it becomes almost impossible to have an objective discussion about the industry, because you can't criticise Apple without people assuming that you want to see them fail. Why would an Android user typically want to see Apple fail? That doesn't make sense. Most people aren't nearly that emotionally invested. At the end of the day, we're talking about a phone. It's metal and glass and transistors and source code, not life or death.

It's not binary characterisation, it's just plain old stereotyping - a significant number of members who prefer to criticize Apple also happen to be Windows and/or Android users. A lot of these people do prefer outcomes in which Apple fail e.g are happy when Apple's patents are invalidated, when they lose court cases, when they have products close to being banned from import, when they lose marketshare. It makes a lot of sense why that would be. If your preferred manufacturer succeeds then it's likely that you will have that choice of product for a long time and the eco-system you invest time and money in will survive and improve. If Apple's marketshare falls, Android users can bring out the criticisms of iOS software exclusives by saying they have 80% marketshare (even though they don't), same with hardware support.

I know there is such a thing as constructive criticism and this is fine, it just happens to be that the criticism from Windows/Android users is rarely constructive. When people suggest that the iPhone gets widgets, big screens, cheaper models* like Android does and Apple is falling behind, that's not entirely constructive when it comes from the same people who suggest iOS 7 is ripped off from Android's UI as is the notification panel and control center and who are eager to see Samsung become more profitable than Apple. The criticism there is designed to validate their claims that Apple had to catch up to Android if they implement those features. You may wonder why people would be that emotionally invested in it but that's how it is. I don't suppose it's much different from cheering your favorite sports team - that's just poor people watching millionaires knocking something around in a field and cheering that their preferred millionaires are better than someone else's; seems like nonsense when you think about it but it's quite popular.

It's important to distinguish between what is permitted on the forum and what is welcomed too. People are allowed to criticize Apple but unconstructive criticism and perpetual criticism is not welcome and it suggests the reason for being here is to be disruptive. What other reason would there be for someone to be a member of an Apple forum and constantly criticize Apple? There's a remote possibility that the most profitable company in the world has been going about their business entirely the wrong way and these perpetual critics are just trying to help them improve but I'd say it's unlikely.

* there are valid reasons for preferring these things, these are just examples
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euponious 
I also find it a bit dubious from a discussion perspective if DED has several different personas on the same site. It can easily give the impression that a point of view has more support than it actually does, which is why most forums discourage or prohibit it.

There aren't several personas. There was an author that went under the author name Prince McClean a long time ago and that name hasn't been used for a while. There is at most one forum account to an author and they probably have to make new accounts to post on the forum as these things tend to be separated on websites for security reasons. Treat them as you would other forum members. Would you say another member's post was 'drivel', if not then the same applies to the article author.
post #157 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

All the apps on the iPhone 5s will be 64-bit. And it will not be difficult for third parties to enhance their apps. Even if a specific app has little to gain from moving to 64-bit, it will still work against Apple's 64-bit system libraries and benefit from more efficient compiling via Xcode's support for the modernized 64-bit ARMv8/AArch64 instruction set.

The move to 64-bit in desktop Intel/PPC systems was largely motivated by the 4GB barrier of addressable RAM. That's not the case in mobile devices. There is an entirely different motive for moving to 64-bit ARM. Stop repeating what you think you know and read about it.

 

What is the "entirely different motive"? From this stackoverflow thread (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2378399/are-64-bit-programs-bigger-and-faster-than-32-bit-versions), it seems that any performance increase from 64 bits would mainly affect cpu-intensive programs such as matlab. On the desktop, the programs that see the most performance increases from 64 bits have probably been running in 64-bit Linux on high performance workstations well before the mainstream OS's switched to 64 bits. Thus Windows and OS X converted mainly because of the memory limitation, and they took their sweet time because it wasn't until the last few years that laptops and desktops started coming with more than 4gb of ram. Are many iOS programs cpu-bound? 


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 9/15/13 at 10:47pm
post #158 of 158

You ought to look up the definition of the word "perception".

 

As I said, it doesn't have to be true.  It simply has to exist.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Hands-on with the new 64-bit A7-powered iPhone 5s with new M7, camera features & Touch ID
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Hands-on with the new 64-bit A7-powered iPhone 5s with new M7, camera features & Touch ID