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Apple Online Store goes down ahead of iPhone 5c preorders (update: orders now live) - Page 5

post #161 of 175

Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.

 

Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.

post #162 of 175
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Originally Posted by snova View Post

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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

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Originally Posted by snova View Post

What are you saying? When has last years cheaper model ever sold out in 8 min? Too funny. This is proof you place higher sales expectations on 5c then you would on the 5 for the same price. This says a lot.

He's probably talking about this old story:
http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-4s-pre-order-stock-sold-out-in-10-minutes-in-hong-kong-07193673/

Look at the date of the article. 4s was the year old model in nov 2011? You sure about that?
The mention of iPhone 5 in the article was around the naming fiasco in which the next phone after the 4 was called the 4s instead of the 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post

Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.

Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.
You are right and this happens every year
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #163 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post
Personally I think the 5c pricing is a mistake. They could have used it to enter the mid tier smartphone market whilst keeping margins high. Instead it is priced as a high end phone - £479 for the 16GB model here in the UK. Clearly the US market is very different but in the UK there are more and more people that are not willing to pay that kind of money for a phone anymore - the market is rapidly becoming commoditised with cheaper alternatives available that are 'good enough'.

 

This assumes that because they didn't price it that way *now* that they are giving up the mid tier market altogether.  Or that if they don't jump on that market *now* they forfeit any chance at it later.  But do you really think pricing it as it is now for say 8 months and getting higher margins, the releasing a larger screen iPhone in May/June 2014, which pushes the 5S to midtier and the 5C to the low tier is too little too late?  They can't possibly sop up a bunch of the mid to lower tier then?

post #164 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post
 

Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.

 

Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.

 

Exactly the "whole different crowd". People complain the 5c doesn't look like the 5 or 4/4s or the 5s when that's the whole point!

post #165 of 175
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Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post
 

 

This assumes that because they didn't price it that way *now* that they are giving up the mid tier market altogether.  Or that if they don't jump on that market *now* they forfeit any chance at it later.  But do you really think pricing it as it is now for say 8 months and getting higher margins, the releasing a larger screen iPhone in May/June 2014, which pushes the 5S to midtier and the 5C to the low tier is too little too late?  They can't possibly sop up a bunch of the mid to lower tier then?

 

Quoting oneself is a tad narcissistic, but I wanted to also point out that there's no reason Apple couldn't make it a 4-tier deal either.  Say they release a 5" screen iPhone 6 in June 2014 starting at $199-229 on contract.  Then they drop the 5S, not to $99 on contract, but to say $129-149.  They drop the 5C to $49-59 and keep the 4S for free.  All this comes with subsequent drops in the off contract price too, taking the 5C firmly into that midtier.  You're telling me those 8 months at the current price forever wrecked Apple's shot at that segment?

post #166 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post
 

 

This assumes that because they didn't price it that way *now* that they are giving up the mid tier market altogether.  Or that if they don't jump on that market *now* they forfeit any chance at it later.  But do you really think pricing it as it is now for say 8 months and getting higher margins, the releasing a larger screen iPhone in May/June 2014, which pushes the 5S to midtier and the 5C to the low tier is too little too late?  They can't possibly sop up a bunch of the mid to lower tier then?

 

They certainly could do that, and maybe with the rumours of 5s shortages they deliberately priced the 5c high short term in case people gave up waiting for the 5s and jumped to the 5c.

 

However lowering the price of a product never sits well with your existing customers who purchased at the higher price. If possible it would be better to change the pricing structure with a new model.

 

 

I think the market expected Apple to try for the mid tier now, rather than in the future. Sales growth of the high end tier is certainly slowing, that along with more competition makes it difficult for Apple to grow sales. Entering the mid tier in the US, Europe and with a product more price suited to China would have provided growth.

 

What we currently have is choice at the high end from Apple, but that choice isn't based on screen size as some would like, but merely based on the external look and feel.

post #167 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post

Quoting oneself is a tad narcissistic, but I wanted to also point out that there's no reason Apple couldn't make it a 4-tier deal either.  Say they release a 5" screen iPhone 6 in June 2014 starting at $199-229 on contract.  Then they drop the 5S, not to $99 on contract, but to say $129-149.  They drop the 5C to $49-59 and keep the 4S for free.  All this comes with subsequent drops in the off contract price too, taking the 5C firmly into that midtier.  You're telling me those 8 months at the current price forever wrecked Apple's shot at that segment?

They won't drop the 5S price within 8 months. I think if they do release a 4.5/5" phone, it'll be priced at 250/300 on contract (all else the same).
post #168 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post
 

Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.

 

Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.

 

There is no doubt some people will get the 5c instead of a 5s, be that because of the price different or personal preference. But what was your girlfriend using before, or what would she have purchased if the 5c didn't exist?

 

If it's the case that she would have purchased the 5s if the 5c didn't exist then Apple hasn't gained anything. The question is will the 5c attract new customers to Apple, and in what volume?

 

There was a news article the other day in the UK about the 5c which showed it along side the current competition. A friend of mine showed it to his two teenage children along with their friends so see which one they would choose. A couple of the girls wanted the S4, one vote for a Lumia, and the two boys went for the HTC One. None were existing Apple users, mainly Blackberry, but none of them showed any interest in the 5c.

post #169 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


They won't drop the 5S price within 8 months. I think if they do release a 4.5/5" phone, it'll be priced at 250/300 on contract (all else the same).

 

It's not like it's never happened before.  Well, they didn't really drop the price on an existing one, but they revved up the specs within a few months.  Remember the iPad 3 being replaced by the iPad 4?  The 3rd gen came out March 2012.  The 4th gen with the upgraded processor, Lightning connector, and other upgrades was announced in October 2012 and shipped Nov 2, 2012.  Same price as the 3rd gen had been.

 

I could see a price drop of $50 or so within 8-9 months if they introduced a larger model.

post #170 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post

It's not like it's never happened before.  Well, they didn't really drop the price on an existing one, but they revved up the specs within a few months.  Remember the iPad 3 being replaced by the iPad 4?  The 3rd gen came out March 2012.  The 4th gen with the upgraded processor, Lightning connector, and other upgrades was announced in October 2012 and shipped Nov 2, 2012.  Same price as the 3rd gen had been.

I could see a price drop of $50 or so within 8-9 months if they introduced a larger model.

Here's the thing with the iPad, they added a new connector and consolidated the release dates of all its products. The 5S already has the connector and it started the Apple release season.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't buy it.
post #171 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post
 

There was a news article the other day in the UK about the 5c which showed it along side the current competition. A friend of mine showed it to his two teenage children along with their friends so see which one they would choose. A couple of the girls wanted the S4, one vote for a Lumia, and the two boys went for the HTC One. None were existing Apple users, mainly Blackberry, but none of them showed any interest in the 5c.

 

They need to SEE and USE the phone in person.  Pictures don't do the phone justice.  And why didn't you show them the 5S also?

post #172 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post
 

 

There is no doubt some people will get the 5c instead of a 5s, be that because of the price different or personal preference. But what was your girlfriend using before, or what would she have purchased if the 5c didn't exist?

 

If it's the case that she would have purchased the 5s if the 5c didn't exist then Apple hasn't gained anything. The question is will the 5c attract new customers to Apple, and in what volume?

 

There was a news article the other day in the UK about the 5c which showed it along side the current competition. A friend of mine showed it to his two teenage children along with their friends so see which one they would choose. A couple of the girls wanted the S4, one vote for a Lumia, and the two boys went for the HTC One. None were existing Apple users, mainly Blackberry, but none of them showed any interest in the 5c.

 

She has the 4s now. I honestly dont know what she would have purchased, but the money is still staying with apple. Maybe apple lost $100 on this cause she went with the 5c instead of the 5s, but losing $100 to yourself if better than losing it to the competition. It wasnt about the specific case, im sure a lot of people will still get the 5s, and maybe not every girl or kid will like the 5c, but some will and it opens up a whole other customer base.

 

No one phone is going to get 100% market share. And Androids marketshare is huge, and I think thats ok. I work at the bank (chase) and a ton of my customers come in all the time asking me how to deposit checks with their phone. 99% of those customers are android users who dont know how to download apps so they need my help understanding their phone. They got a smartphone because it was cheap and it was touchscreen. Marketshare isnt everything. These phones will sell millions. People are talking about innovation but they just like to throw the word around. What has apple innovated? The iphone wasnt the first phone, the ipad wasnt the first table, the macinstosh wasnt the first computer, Touch ID isnt the first fingerprint sensor, and the 5c isnt the first plastic phone. They dont make new products, they make better products. When analysts understand that, they will stop bashing.

post #173 of 175
Seems like the common black faceplate was a mistake.

If they're going to do colors, might as well make it a solid color block. A least offer the choice of a white faceplate. At least that way you could put a colored screen protector over it and effectively change it. Because once you put a case on these things the color is pointless. Does Apple think no one will buy a case? And their own design seems to imply a cheese-grater effect allows customers to enjoy the beauty of the color they chose while protecting the phone.

I don't know, after seeing the Nokia Lumina which I previously not paid attention to until Microsoft started attacking Apple, just makes Apple seem like the copycat here.

I'm just dissapointed in this thing. It just doesn't seem to do enough of anything Apple intended it to do.
post #174 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Seems like the common black faceplate was a mistake.

If they're going to do colors, might as well make it a solid color block. A least offer the choice of a white faceplate. At least that way you could put a colored screen protector over it and effectively change it. Because once you put a case on these things the color is pointless. Does Apple think no one will buy a case? And their own design seems to imply a cheese-grater effect allows customers to enjoy the beauty of the color they chose while protecting the phone.

I don't know, after seeing the Nokia Lumina which I previously not paid attention to until Microsoft started attacking Apple, just makes Apple seem like the copycat here.

I'm just dissapointed in this thing. It just doesn't seem to do enough of anything Apple intended it to do.
So Apple copies Nokia because the front of the phone is black? Even though Apple has done colored plastic in the past and have done colored iPods since forever? Nokia didn't invent using color on electronics.

I get wanting differentiation and creating a product portfolio. And I don't even mind using colored plastic as every indication is these are solid, well built phones that will probably stand up to wear and tear better. The problem I have with the 5C is Apple calling it that and tying it too much to the iPhone 5. Makes people think they just took iPhone 5 and dumped it in a plastic case. They should have made no reference to the 5 and should have priced it cheaper than they would have marking down the 5 since they switche to plastic. It's a really great phone and I'd love to see it in the hands of as many people as possible. Doesn't mean Apple should get into a race to the bottom but there is a middle that I think they could be very successful in. Tim needs to be bold and not worry so much about margins. No matter what he does he's not going to please Wall Street.
post #175 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


So Apple copies Nokia because the front of the phone is black? 

Nope. But it looks that way to those unfamiliar with Apple's past. The iPhone's been around since '07, yet despite colored iPods, they didn't do a phone, even when they did the 3G/S in plastic. 

 

Nokia differentiated their phone from all the others by adding color. Copied from Apple's other product lines? Possibly. But nevertheless it made them distinct in the marketplace.

 

Apple really underwhelmed here. Under the hood the 5c is engineered way beyond the competition. But on the surface, it's not up to the same design aesthetic that I'm used to from Apple, IMO. It doesn't really stand out form the other offerings on the market. And you bring up very good points about the 5 slapped into a plastic case. The Touch is less expensive and yet it's in a metal case. Apple made a huge deal over the years about metal and glass and their position on the environment, and what do they do? They take a product that sells to 100s of millions of units during its intended short two-year lifetime, and put it in the most environmentally unfriendly package they can.

 

So what happens next year? Plastic 5c drops down to the free phone? The 5s slides into the 5c case as a $100 offering? Then what happens, they 5c remains the 5c? Or they introduce a 6c that includes the 6 guts repackaged in the same plastic case. Or do they redesign the plastic iPhone every two years? In which case, isn't it cheaper just to offer last years design? Either way, it doesn't seem to be an affordable option to the 5s, nor is it a unique design statement. 

 

This is why people say Apple isn't innovating anymore. They've gone back to the same iMac well the Steve Jobs INNOVATED. Colored iPods weren't unique and neither is this, at least the way they've implemented it. It's just an iPhone 5 in a colored plastic case, priced not much less, and the 4S is still around with a 30-pin doc connector. What's next, colored iPads? Plastic iPad minis? In fact, because they've gone back to plastic to differentiate the 5 from the 5s, suggests to me there won't be many changes to the 5s case design going forward in the 6/S series, so the only way to notably distinguish one from the other for at least the next 3 years is through materials, and ... colors.

 

I do wonder if they will introduce the iPhone 6 earlier next year, maybe April? If so, that allows them to drop the 5c to the lowest price point faster, and introduce the 5CS at the $100 price point. That might make a little more sense with respect to what they just announced.

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