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Apple Online Store goes down ahead of iPhone 5c preorders (update: orders now live) - Page 2

post #41 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

With the introduction of the 5S, the 5 would've been priced at $550 regardless. 

Who says? Just because they've done that in the past? The BOM for the 5 may have cost too much to do that.

Nevertheless, the price did drop $100 for a phone that's still high-end and was selling very well.

What you're saying is that by going to plastic Apple should somehow be able to drop it $200 while not destroying margins. Right.
post #42 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post
 

That works for the US but despite your belief the US is not the center of the world. Apple needs to get more competitive in markets like Europe, India and China where a big majority of people buy their phones off-contract for the full price.

 

Apple is clearly signaling that they don't give a crap about the low end smartphone market or low end customers. That low end market is already filled to the brim with countless companies, releasing one crappy phone after another, undercutting each other on price, with many of those companies struggling and Apple certainly doesn't need to wallow around in the mud with those other companies.

 

Apple is going to be selling tens of millions of phones at their current prices. The people buying these phones obviously don't have any problems with the price. 

 

People buy iPhones because they like the phone and all that comes with it (the Apple ecosystem, superior support etc.). That's quite different than many other customers who choose their non Apple phones primarily because they were cheaply priced. Those people who want an iPhone badly enough will get one. Those who can't afford one will just have to choose something else or get a better job or something. That's life. As the Rolling Stones once sang "You can't always get what you want".  

post #43 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


Who says? Just because they've done that in the past? The BOM for the 5 may have cost too much to do that.

Nevertheless, the price did drop $100 for a phone that's still high-end and was selling very well.

What you're saying is that by going to plastic Apple should somehow be able to drop it $200 while not destroying margins. Right.

 

Surely Apple would've sold the 5 and 5s for the same price. /s

They do need to differentiate their products, you know. 

 

Just compare the 5c and 5s. Do you think all the upgrades in the 5s (new 64-bit processor, M7 coprocessor, better GPU, fingerprint reader, better camera, amongst others AND a higher-quality housing) are worth just $100 more? Hell, the 32GB 5c and the 16GB 5s are selling for the *same* price. That does not make sense. At all.

post #44 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

With the introduction of the 5S, the 5 would've been priced at $550 regardless. 


Who says? Just because they've done that in the past? The BOM for the 5 may have cost too much to do that.

Nevertheless, the price did drop $100 for a phone that's still high-end and was selling very well.

What you're saying is that by going to plastic Apple should somehow be able to drop it $200 while not destroying margins. Right.

$200 for a few oz of aluminum enclosure. Cool. Look are price of ipod touch. Switch to plastic enclosure and save $200 too! Do you believe it?

The whole plastic enclosure thing is a win win for Apple from a marketing point of view first and foremost and saves a few bucks on the bom. I'm thinking $10-20 max. They are selling a new product line now instead of old model from the same line. This puts distance between new "fun" model and the more serious new premium model. Like MacBook Air vs MacBook Pro. The question is no longer is the 5c good enough the question is the 5s worth $100 more for what you want in a phone. If we still has 5 vs 5s we would not have this same level of separation. I am sure the "c" line will start to go in a different direction and offer things the "s" line does not more than color soon.
Edited by snova - 9/13/13 at 1:51am
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post #45 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


I meant that it is a good thing we cannot pre-order the 5s as I'm sure Apple made enough to sell at retail or through websites, including their own. They don't need a pre-order system to see how many people want it, is all.
No one said the site went down. The Store went down to update it with the 5c.

 

1.  You can pre-order the 5s from Walmart and others at a discount. 

2.  Security conscious agencies and governments probably have huge orders on the 5s.  Apple does not spend $ 356 Million on a security company unless a lot of people are asking for them.

3.  It's also better for Apple to ship in bulk to partners than to individuals.

4.  I think the list pricing is designed to discourage scalping and favor partners and carriers that are paying subsidies to Apple.

 

Some customers did not get the memo and thought they could pre-order the 5s overnight.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/09/12/iphone-5s-pre-orders-keep-consumers-awake-cranky/


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/13/13 at 1:51am
post #46 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

Apple is clearly signaling that they don't give a crap about the low end smartphone market or low end customers. That low end market is already filled to the brim with countless companies, releasing one crappy phone after another, undercutting each other on price, with many of those companies struggling and Apple certainly doesn't need to wallow around in the mud with those other companies. 

 

Again, no one is expecting Apple to make smartphones for the low-end market. The pricing on the 5c is just off. There'd be enough room in the higher mid-end market for Apple to make an impact against the similarly priced "high-end" Android phones.

 

I know most people in the US buy their phones on contract with family plans and whatnot but consumers in Europe, India or China are more price-sensitive. Just compare the ones here in Germany:

 

8 GB 4S: 399€

16 GB 5c: 599€

16 GB 5s: 699€

16 GB Galaxy S3: 289€

16 GB Galaxy S4: 489€

8 GB Galaxy S4 mini: 299€

32 GB HTC One: 504,90€

16 GB HTC one mini: 395€

 

There's just a huge discrepancy between Apple and Android phones. I'm happy to pay the premium for an Apple smartphone but I can't recommend any one of them to people who are not heavy smartphone users like I am. Yes, the 4S is still around for 400€ but it's two years old now, sports a 3.5inch display and the old dock connector. It's just not competitive on price, especially for people who haven't yet experienced an iOS smartphone and don't know why an iPhone is/might be worth the premium for them.

post #47 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

What Apple needs to do is maximize profits and sell every unit they can make as fast as they can make them. Right?

There will always be cheaper phones. So what?

You can't ignore market share and be afraid of cannibalisation forever. Even Windows Phone catches up with iOS in countries like Germany, or it already has surpassed it in Italy or Greece. 

Nobody expects them to sell an iPhone for $50 off-contract but like I said, if you put the iP5 internals into a "cheaper" plastic housing then lower the damn price by at least $100. At this price it's not competitive in Europe, let alone in India or China.


How about this:
Quote:
The real news here is that T-Mobile’s new Uncarrier plans mean that the iPhone 5c will sell for $0 down with the $528 price tag paid through 24 monthly installments of $22.

http://************/2013/09/12/t-mobile-offering-0-down-on-iphone-5c-99-down-on-iphone-5s-with-monthly-installment-plan/
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post #48 of 175

 

That's nice and all. In Germany, the reality is a little different on T-Mobile (biggest carrier here).

1€ upfront, 70€ per month for 24 months.

For a similiar monthly fee of $22, T-Mobile asks for a down payment of 479€. And that'll only give you 50 minutes for calls, 50 SMSs and 100MB for data.

 

I don't know how the situation is in other European countries (or India and China for that matter) but the high percentage of people buying their phones off-contract in those regions suggests similarly expensive and ridiculous contracts there.

post #49 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/159513/apple-online-store-goes-down-ahead-of-iphone-5c-preorders/40#post_2396343"]
 

Apple is clearly signaling that they don't give a crap about the low end smartphone market or low end customers. That low end market is already filled to the brim with countless companies, releasing one crappy phone after another, undercutting each other on price, with many of those companies struggling and Apple certainly doesn't need to wallow around in the mud with those other companies. 


Again, no one is expecting Apple to make smartphones for the low-end market. The pricing on the 5c is just off. There'd be enough room in the higher mid-end market for Apple to make an impact against the similarly priced "high-end" Android phones.

I know most people in the US buy their phones on contract with family plans and whatnot but consumers in Europe, India or China are more price-sensitive. Just compare the ones here in Germany:

8 GB 4S: 399€
16 GB 5c: 599€
16 GB 5s: 699€
16 GB Galaxy S3: 289€
16 GB Galaxy S4: 489€
8 GB Galaxy S4 mini: 299€
32 GB HTC One: 504,90€
16 GB HTC one mini: 395€

There's just a huge discrepancy between Apple and Android phones. I'm happy to pay the premium for an Apple smartphone but I can't recommend any one of them to people who are not heavy smartphone users like I am. Yes, the 4S is still around for 400€ but it's two years old now, sports a 3.5inch display and the old dock connector. It's just not competitive on price, especially for people who haven't yet experienced an iOS smartphone and don't know why an iPhone is/might be worth the premium for them.
You forgot to mention that Nexus 4 is 350 euros.

Something is very strange in Germany specifically compared to other counties in the EU from Apple vs Andriod market share point if view. I am sure there is a special story there beyond just price. I notice Samsung like to do big press events there. Something related to the iPhone and iPad ban in Germany from a few years ago? And now iCloud.

Politics or corruption perhaps?
Edited by snova - 9/13/13 at 2:38am
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post #50 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How about this:
[URL=http:/2013/09/12/t-mobile-offering-0-down-on-iphone-5c-99-down-on-iphone-5s-with-monthly-installment-plan/]http://************/2013/09/12/t-mobile-offering-0-down-on-iphone-5c-99-down-on-iphone-5s-with-monthly-installment-plan/[/URL]

That's nice and all. In Germany, the reality is a little different on T-Mobile (biggest carrier here).
1€ upfront, 70€ per month for 24 months.
For a similiar monthly fee of $22, T-Mobile asks for a down payment of 479€. And that'll only give you 50 minutes for calls, 50 SMSs and 100MB for data.

I don't know how the situation is in other European countries (or India and China for that matter) but the high percentage of people buying their phones off-contract in those regions suggests similarly expensive and ridiculous contracts there.

I have no experience with the smart phone marketplace on Germany.

I'd ask:
  1. Is Apple attaining their longer-term (say, annual) iPhone sales objectives?
  2. If not, is price the reason?
  3. If so, do you think that Apple is too inflexible or out-of-touch to adjust to market conditions?
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post #51 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

15 minutes in, you can still preorder the 5C with an est. delivery of 9/20. Doesn't seem to sell well.

during iPhone 5's time, it was Apple controlling the supply to have the impression the phone is selling out fast... now on 5c, because it is still available after 15mins, it will not sell well???
post #52 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How about this:
[URL=http:/2013/09/12/t-mobile-offering-0-down-on-iphone-5c-99-down-on-iphone-5s-with-monthly-installment-plan/]http://************/2013/09/12/t-mobile-offering-0-down-on-iphone-5c-99-down-on-iphone-5s-with-monthly-installment-plan/[/URL]

That's nice and all. In Germany, the reality is a little different on T-Mobile (biggest carrier here).
1€ upfront, 70€ per month for 24 months.
For a similiar monthly fee of $22, T-Mobile asks for a down payment of 479€. And that'll only give you 50 minutes for calls, 50 SMSs and 100MB for data.

I don't know how the situation is in other European countries (or India and China for that matter) but the high percentage of people buying their phones off-contract in those regions suggests similarly expensive and ridiculous contracts there.

Apples and oranges... The info I posted was for buying the iPhone 5C financed over time -- phone service is priced separately.
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post #53 of 175
Sales are probably slow. There's no delay in shipping dates after 4+ hours. 5S would have sold out by now
post #54 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I have no experience with the smart phone marketplace on Germany.

I'd ask:
  1. Is Apple attaining their longer-term (say, annual) iPhone sales objectives?
  2. If not, is price the reason?
  3. If so, do you think that Apple is too inflexible or out-of-touch to adjust to market conditions?

 

I reckon it's a very region-specific topic but I would be surprised if the situation is much different in other European countries.

 

As for your questions:

  1. I don't know what their sales objectives are here but they've lost 2.1 percent market share between July 2012 and 2013 while Windows Phone and Android added 2.6 and 3.4 percent respectively. To be fair, iOS did really well in other European countries (according to Katar World Panel). That's mainly due to the demise of BlackBerry and partly Symbian though, they are not stealing market share from Android or Windows Phone.
  2. I'd say so. 
  3. Yes, the prices are out of touch. They worked two, three years ago when the competition was struggling to copy the iPhone but they've gotten stronger, both in terms of quality and price. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post


You forgot to mention that Nexus 4 is 350 euros.

Something is very strange in Germany specifically compared to other counties in the EU from Apple vs Andriod market share point if view. I am sure there is a special story there beyond just price. I notice Samsung like to do big press events there. Something related to the iPhone and iPad ban in Germany from a few years ago? And now iCloud.

Politics or corruption perhaps?

 

Yeah, the Nexus 4 was actually on sale a few weeks ago for 299€.

 

There's nothing suspicious going on as far as I can tell. Samsung is historically a well-respected brand here and ultimately, they win on value. People go to the store, see an iPhone and a Galaxy side-by-side and pick the one with the bigger screen and the quad core processor for a significantly lower price.

 

If you don't know why the iPhone is more expensive, you can be easily fooled by the - on paper - better specs of an Android device. Even then it begs the question if an iPhone really is worth the premium. I could buy the 16 GB S4, add a 32 GB microSD for my music and end up slightly above the 500€ mark while Apple wants 800€ for the 32 GB iPhone 5s (5c: 700€). It's hard to justify that difference, honestly. 


Edited by alex101 - 9/13/13 at 3:43am
post #55 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

If you don't know why the iPhone is more expensive, you can be easily fooled by the - on paper - better specs of an Android device. Even then it begs the question if an iPhone really is worth the premium. I could buy the 16 GB S4, add a 32 GB microSD for my music and end up slightly above the 500€ mark while Apple wants 800€ for the 32 GB iPhone 5s (5c: 700€). It's hard to justify that difference, honestly.

Of course you'd be stuck with Android, and that cannot be something you were wishing for.

The iPhone itself became only cheaper: the kept (more or less) the same price globally, but added so many HW components and software innovations I don't know where to start explaining it all. Fortunately, I don't have to. Check ww.Apple.com and read it all for yourself.
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post #56 of 175
I just went on Apple's site and can order any model with a 9/20 ship date. Not sure if that means anything. My guess is the people this is geared to don't feel the need to get up at midnight to order it. Initially I was thinking we'd know on Monday how this presale went, but the more I think about it the more I think Apple will never reveal the sales split between 5S and 5C. We'll get combined figures the Monday after the 20th.

One thing I do wonder from a branding position, if people are constantly given the impression by the media that this is "just a year old phone dressed up in a cheap plastic case and marketd as something new" they might think twice about it. Never mind that it's a really good phone and appears to be very well built. The media isn't treating it as a "new phone" but "last years model in a plastic case". Of course it's way to early to tell but if Apple had replaced the 4S with this phone (in terms of slot, not necessarily specs) and still sold iPhone 5 (replacing slate with gray) for slightly cheaper it might have been better from a positioning standpoint.
post #57 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

That's nice and all. In Germany, the reality is a little different on T-Mobile (biggest carrier here).
1€ upfront, 70€ per month for 24 months.
For a similiar monthly fee of $22, T-Mobile asks for a down payment of 479€. And that'll only give you 50 minutes for calls, 50 SMSs and 100MB for data.

I don't know how the situation is in other European countries (or India and China for that matter) but the high percentage of people buying their phones off-contract in those regions suggests similarly expensive and ridiculous contracts there.
I guess the difference is these companies make a less quality product that they can sell cheaper there and then sacrifice profit for market share, look how that worked out for Nokia. These same companies sell their phones here for more than the iPhone off contract so they are trying to make up the difference here.
post #58 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

People are already buying the 5. The 5c is the new 5 with style. Of course they will continue to buy it.

It will be the biggest launch ever for Apple.

 

This is kind of self evident. But for all those WSJ nose pickers it will take 6 more months to realize. Oh well.... :rolleyes:

post #59 of 175
I'd love to know who was responsible for the branding/positioning of this phone? Schiller? Cook? As I said on a MR thread, Apple should have shaken things up this year. They should have gone with two models: iPhone and iPhone color. iPhone would be the premium device with premium specs, features and design. iPhone color would be the colorful cheaper sibling. The 4/4S would cease to exist and the would be no mention of iPhone 5 anywhere. This would do several things: one, It would get rid of the numbers in the naming conventions (like the iPad has done); two, keep the colored phone from being branded by the media as last years phone in a plastic case and three, not have people thinking the $100 cheaper iPhone 5 is being replaced with colored plastic.

The idea of the 5C is great. The 5C is a great phone. It's just from a branding/positioning standpoint it's not really working, especially with Apple keeping the 4S around and when announcing the 5C constantly referring to how it's just like the 5 (except it doesn't have the 5's premium design). By positioning the 5C in what would have been the 5's slot you've got some people thinking 'I could have gotten a 5, with its premium design for $100 cheaper, instead Apple is throwing colored plastic at me'. It very well may be the 5 is still very expensive to manufacture and reducing it $100 was out of the question. Going iPhone and iPhone color would have alleviated that problem.
post #60 of 175
A bit strange -- or perhaps not -- that there aren't dozens of frustrated, hands-up-in-the-air "OMG, tried to order at 3AM, but couldn't" posts that have typically followed every iPhone intro since the 3G.
post #61 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

A bit strange -- or perhaps not -- that there aren't dozens of frustrated, hands-up-in-the-air "OMG, tried to order at 3AM, but couldn't" posts that have typically followed every iPhone intro since the 3G.
Why? It's not the new phone. Did we see those kinds of posts last year for the 4S? No.
post #62 of 175

People who preorder on the Internet are informed people, they know very well this is last year phone in a plastic case. Apple might have more success in stores when uninformed people will be told by the salesman that this is "the new iPhone" although it is not! Probably some uninformed people will give up a perfectly good iPhone 5 for the "new" iPhone 5c :D I think, in the end this is what Apple counts for with this iPhone 5c. Sell to people last year phone but tell them it's the "new iPhone"! Good strategy! Let's see how many will fall for this.

post #63 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by VL-Tone View Post
 

 

People want the new iPhone. They don't care what's inside. 

Yeah, dumb people, obviously!

post #64 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Why? It's not the new phone.

Enlighten us all: why isn't this phone new? Looks new to me:

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post #65 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Enlighten us all: why isn't this phone new? Looks new to me:

Did somebody photoshop that? Why do the 5C and 5S look bigger than the 5?
post #66 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
 

 

No.  You're dead wrong.  I agree with your assessment of the device but you are forgetting that people are generally idiots.  

 

You are assuming that because logically the iPhone 5c is a sort of a con, that people will "think" about it and "decide" not to buy it.  

This "thinking" and "deciding" really has very little to do with retail sales however.   Ask anyone in the business.  

 

Even if sales are low, all they have to do is put them at eye level in the front of the store or wherever a group of people are standing and they will sell anyway.  This is almost the entire basis of chewing gum and mint sales for instance.  

You are right, but you see, "idiots" can see "plastic"! They might say, "Great, look, the new iPhone, let's get one to show to my neighbor that now I have an iPhone just like him!" But after he touch it he might say: "Wait a minute, this does not look like my neighbor phone! This is plastic! My neighbor has a metallic phone! This must be some Chinese clone! I'm not buying!"

post #67 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Of course it's way to early to tell but if Apple had replaced the 4S with this phone (in terms of slot, not necessarily specs) and still sold iPhone 5 (replacing slate with gray) for slightly cheaper it might have been better from a positioning standpoint.

 

I think that would have alleviated some of the angst against the 5C. If it were $200 less than the 5S it would have made more sense for some people, even here on AI. With the minimal price difference it's a hard sell. It's sad that the 5C apparently cost more than even the S4 in Europe according to alex101.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'd love to know who was responsible for the branding/positioning of this phone? Schiller? Cook? As I said on a MR thread, Apple should have shaken things up this year. They should have gone with two models: iPhone and iPhone color. iPhone would be the premium device with premium specs, features and design. iPhone color would be the colorful cheaper sibling. The 4/4S would cease to exist and the would be no mention of iPhone 5 anywhere. This would do several things: one, It would get rid of the numbers in the naming conventions (like the iPad has done); two, keep the colored phone from being branded by the media as last years phone in a plastic case and three, not have people thinking the $100 cheaper iPhone 5 is being replaced with colored plastic.

The idea of the 5C is great. The 5C is a great phone. It's just from a branding/positioning standpoint it's not really working, especially with Apple keeping the 4S around and when announcing the 5C constantly referring to how it's just like the 5 (except it doesn't have the 5's premium design). By positioning the 5C in what would have been the 5's slot you've got some people thinking 'I could have gotten a 5, with its premium design for $100 cheaper, instead Apple is throwing colored plastic at me'. It very well may be the 5 is still very expensive to manufacture and reducing it $100 was out of the question. Going iPhone and iPhone color would have alleviated that problem.

 

I agree with this post.

 

The name 5C doesn't help Apple's cause. This would have been a good time to drop naming conventions, and just bring out 2 new phones with no prior baggage. By connecting the 5C to the 5 at the keynote, most of us are thinking "I would have rather had the 5 at the same price." It makes Apple look like a penny pinching marketing company and not an engineering tech company.

 

Either way $550 is too much unlocked for the 5C. Even if Apple decided to stick with $550 in the US, they should have been more aggressive on the price in Europe, where more people would probably buy an iPhone for the 1st time.

 

No matter what happens with the 5C, I think I'm always going to see the missed opportunities. Also waiting until next year to lower the price will be too little too late.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Why? It's not the new phone. Did we see those kinds of posts last year for the 4S? No.

 

It's being marketed as a new phone...

post #68 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

People who preorder on the Internet are informed people, they know very well this is last year phone in a plastic case. Apple might have more success in stores when uninformed people will be told by the salesman that this is "the new iPhone" although it is not! Probably some uninformed people will give up a perfectly good iPhone 5 for the "new" iPhone 5c 1biggrin.gif I think, in the end this is what Apple counts for with this iPhone 5c. Sell to people last year phone but tell them it's the "new iPhone"! Good strategy! Let's see how many will fall for this.

Does the Moto X or cheaper Lumia models have the latest and greatest specs?
post #69 of 175
FWIW the 5C is probably the phone my wife is getting once everything dies down. She's finally leaning towards ditching her 4 year old feature phone and for a somewhat silly reason since she's generally been happy with it and the dang thing runs for a week before it needs charging:
She has to use another old company smartphone when running credit cards on Square.

The only other thing she'll probably use it for is quick recipe searches, but whatever. She never asks for much so fine with me. She has smaller hands and doesn't like larger phones, she likes the 5C green and her best friend is always telling her she needs to get an iPhone "'cause of all the stuff it does"1smile.gif
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/13/13 at 6:15am
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post #70 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post
 

 Sell to people last year phone but tell them it's the "new iPhone"! Good strategy! Let's see how many will fall for this.

 

This whole 5C fiasco makes Apple look bad.

 

Question to everyone:

 

Would Steve have done something like this?

 

Yes that's a troll-ish question, but I'm serious. I feel if Steve were to make a "5C" he would start from the ground up to develop the best mid-tier phone he could. He would probably reimagine the whole product and not just throw last years phone in a plastic case and sell it for the same price it would normally be sold for.

 

The Mac Mini was completely different from the PowerMac, the iPod Mini/Nano were completely different from the iPod. Steve didn't just slap those respective products in cheaper enclosures and hoped to increase margins convincing people they were "new" products.

 

Ugh. I don't dislike the 5C. It looks great, but I'm not sure if the philosophy that brought us the 5C is the type that has driven Apple forward the past 2 decades.

 

/rant

post #71 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Does the Moto X or cheaper Lumia models have the latest and greatest specs?

 

And when was Apple Motorola or Nokia...

post #72 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I agree with this post.

The name 5C doesn't help Apple's cause. This would have been a good time to drop naming conventions, and just bring out 2 new phones with no prior baggage. By connecting the 5C to the 5 at the keynote, most of us are thinking "I would have rather had the 5 at the same price." It makes Apple look like a penny pinching marketing company and not an engineering tech company.

Either way $550 is too much unlocked for the 5C. Even if Apple decided to stick with $550 in the US, they should have been more aggressive on the price in Europe, where more people would probably buy an iPhone for the 1st time.

No matter what happens with the 5C, I think I'm always going to see the missed opportunities. Also waiting until next year to lower the price will be too little too late.

Yes that's where they failed. From a cost perspective they may not have been able to drop the 5 $100. So with the colored plastic phone don't reference the 5 at all and make it more affordable in certain markets. It's a good phone badly marketed and priced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

It's being marketed as a new phone...
True. But I think the people that get up at midnight to order a new phone are die hards/techies who are more likely to go for the 5S. Perhaps they're doing preorders with the 5C to gauge what colors are popular so they know how best to stock retail.
post #73 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Why? It's not the new phone. Did we see those kinds of posts last year for the 4S? No.

Uh!? 'Unapologetically plastic' is not new for the iPhone? 'Brilliant color' is not new? Cases with holes in it with 'colors in MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES' is not new? If none of these mattered, what was the point of the 5C!?

Moreover, if it's as you say, they should perhaps have waited until Sept 20 to intro the 5S first, and then put out the C. As of now, it just feeds the unfortunately trite meme (unwittingly, on your part too) of "meh, no innovation."
post #74 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

And when was Apple Motorola or Nokia...
That's not my point. My point is Moto X isn't getting dinged for being a new phone without top of the line specs. I don't think the colored iPhone (that's what I'm calling it from now on) should get dinged for it either.
post #75 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post
 

If you don't know why the iPhone is more expensive, you can be easily fooled by the - on paper - better specs of an Android device. Even then it begs the question if an iPhone really is worth the premium. I could buy the 16 GB S4, add a 32 GB microSD for my music and end up slightly above the 500€ mark while Apple wants 800€ for the 32 GB iPhone 5s (5c: 700€). It's hard to justify that difference, honestly. 

there is no question all the iPhones are priced purely based on what Apple thinks people are willing to pay rather than a fair margin on top of the cost to manufacture. The problem with that approach is that people are wising up, there are alternatives out there now which are just as good and no body likes to be ripped off.

 

There is no possible way an 32GB iPhone 5c should cost $350 more than a 32GB iPod touch - radios, antennas and a proximity sensor don't cost that much. Really the 5c should cost the same, or less, than an iPad mini with cellular, but no Apple wants an additional $90.

 

If the base cost insult isn't enough, Apple still wants to charge the same amount for a small storage upgrade that they have done for many years now. They showed a nice graph in the presentation comparing processor performance over the years, no surprise they didn't put up one showing how much flash capacity/price has increased over the same time period :(

post #76 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Uh!? 'Unapologetically plastic' is not new for the iPhone? 'Brilliant color' is not new? Cases with holes in it with 'colors in MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES' is not new? If none of these mattered, what was the point of the 5C!?

Moreover, if it's as you say, they should perhaps have waited until Sept 20 to intro the 5S first, and then put out the C. As of now, it just feeds the unfortunately trite meme (unwittingly, on your part too) of "meh, no innovation."
Have you not read any of my other posts in this thread? I think Apple botched this in many ways. Calling it the 5C instead of something simple like iPhone color. Constant references to the 5. Keeping the 4S around rather than making the iPhone color the lower price option. As I said before I don't think the phone is the problem. I think it's a great phone. The marketing, positioning and pricing is the problem. Get rid of the 4S and make iPhone color cheaper off contract.
post #77 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Perhaps they're doing preorders with the 5C to gauge what colors are popular so they know how best to stock retail.

 

That would make sense.

 

I think Apple and carriers are banking on the blue model being popular. That's the one I see on all the carrier banners on their sites. Looks VERY nice too.

post #78 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post
 

there is no question all the iPhones are priced purely based on what Apple thinks people are willing to pay rather than a fair margin on top of the cost to manufacture. The problem with that approach is that people are wising up, there are alternatives out there now which are just as good and no body likes to be ripped off.

 

There is no possible way an 32GB iPhone 5c should cost $350 more than a 32GB iPod touch - radios, antennas and a proximity sensor don't cost that much. Really the 5c should cost the same, or less, than an iPad mini with cellular, but no Apple wants an additional $90.

 

If the base cost insult isn't enough, Apple still wants to charge the same amount for a small storage upgrade that they have done for many years now. They showed a nice graph in the presentation comparing processor performance over the years, no surprise they didn't put up one showing how much flash capacity/price has increased over the same time period :(

 

 

Please explain a "fair margin".

post #79 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Did somebody photoshop that? Why do the 5C and 5S look bigger than the 5?

No idea; straight from Wikipedia and yes, looks silly.
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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post #80 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101 View Post

Again, no one is expecting Apple to make smartphones for the low-end market. The pricing on the 5c is just off.

Then don't buy one. End of story.

I suspect that Apple knows just a little bit more about their costs and markets than you do. Your choice is simple - if something looks like a good deal to you, you buy it. If it doesn't look like a good deal, don't. Other than that, you don't have enough information to know what Apple should do.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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