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After its disastrous Exynos 5 Octa, Samsung may have lost Apple's A7 contract to TSMC - Page 6

post #201 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker View Post
 

 

Where did you get that information from?

I really think you're way off here.

 

Google is testing Linux Kernel 3.7+ since january and already published release candidates with armv8 support:

https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/experimental/android-3.10-rc5/arch/arm64/

 

If you wanted to release a 64bit android device, all you need is 64bit drivers for those components and you're good to go (which means compile android with armv8 as target architecture + make sure that you have libs for jni to ensure native code can be run in a 32bit compatibility environment).

 

shipping 64-bit device > hypothetical 64-bit device

 

Google appreciates your apologetics anyway and you will be rewarded for your fealty. ;)

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post #202 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


Yes.
Sim free iPhone 5s in UK Apple Store £549.00
Sim free Samsung Galaxy S4 in Argos £599.95 although it does have £50 off at the moment making it only 95 pence more expensive than the 5s.

 

Pretty sure that's not what he means since the Galaxy S4 doesn't sell "in tiny volumes", it sells in very large volumes, analagous to the iPhone.

 

So what are these smartphones (lots of them, apparently) that sell at a higher price than the iPhone (in small quantities)?

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post #203 of 366
"A high end Mac Pro will probably make delicate creatures faint."

I love it! Nice read.
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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci

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post #204 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


And re-write all their own apps and the SDK for their devs.

 

Nope, android apps are distributed as bytecode, so there's no need to rewrite anything.

As for native code - they could distribute the arm64 gcc toolchain as an additional build target.

That would allow developers to optimize existing native libraries by compiling them specifially with arm64.

This is probably the same google will do when they release an official 64bit port.

post #205 of 366
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
Androidify yourself by customizing the little green Android as yourself.

 

 

 

Can you give it high heels, fishnets, and a disgustingly short skirt? You know, turn it into the whore it really is.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #206 of 366

Stay classy TS.

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post #207 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post
 

Also, the M7 chip, this occurred to me while using my iPod, it tracks my movement all the time regardless of what app, if you're using Safari laying down and shift position, Safari flips, its bloody annoying but the sensors are definitely working all the time and not just for sports apps or whatever.

That's what the "Lock Orientation" option is for. Double-click home button and slide to left.

post #208 of 366
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Stay classy TS.

 

If you've reason to believe the means by which Android gets onto hardware is not relatable to whoring, I'm all ears.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #209 of 366

Whores earn money by advertising now?  News to me.

 

In any case, that wasn't what my comment was referring to.  These forums are filled with enough bile without bringing misogyny into it.  Women can wear whatever they want.  Now pack it in.

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post #210 of 366
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Whores earn money by advertising now?  News to me.

 

In any case, that wasn't what my comment was referring to.  These forums are filled with enough bile without bringing misogyny into it.  Women can wear whatever they want.  Now pack it in.

 

Oh, that's hilarious. :lol:

 

Keep this nonsense in PO.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #211 of 366
Better yet, keep this nonsense off the forum. No need for it.

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post #212 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

And re-write all their own apps and the SDK for their devs.

Nope, android apps are distributed as bytecode, so there's no need to rewrite anything.
As for native code - they could distribute the arm64 gcc toolchain as an additional build target.
That would allow developers to optimize existing native libraries by compiling them specifially with arm64.
This is probably the same google will do when they release an official 64bit port.

As I understand it, in order to exploit a 64-bit SOC -- Google's use of Java will need to be updated from the current 32-bit to 64-bit... same with Davlik. This could involve difficult and expensive negotiations with Oracle/Larry Ellison:
Quote:
August 13, 2013

"We don't compete with Google. We don't do anything Google does. We just think they took our stuff and that was wrong. That's a completely separate issue ... I think what they did was -- was-- absolutely evil," Ellison told Rose.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57598257/oracle-ceo-larry-ellison-google-ceo-did-evil-things-apple-is-going-down/
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post #213 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post

"Given that Apple's iPhone product lineup has now subtly shifted from selling "the last three generations" of iPhones to a new two-tier model featuring an upscale iPhone 5s and mainstream iPhone 5c (flanked by a low end iPhone 4S, and in some countries an even cheaper iPhone 4)"

How is it a two-tier model if they're still selling at least three models, like you described in the same sentence?

 

Two tiers of new models, rather than just one new one.

post #214 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

 

Pretty sure that's not what he means since the Galaxy S4 doesn't sell "in tiny volumes", it sells in very large volumes, analagous to the iPhone.

 

So what are these smartphones (lots of them, apparently) that sell at a higher price than the iPhone (in small quantities)?

 

Perhaps when your Internet access is restored you can Google it.

post #215 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by reydn View Post

This guy knows Apple SoC's - these we're posted pre-DED editorial:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1634100

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1630400

 

Note that prior to the announcement, even he stated, "however, I believe it to be highly unlikely that Apple's A7 will be 64 bit."

 

The second one was linked to in the article and he was cited by name. 

post #216 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


As I understand it, in order to exploit a 64-bit SOC -- Google's use of Java will need to be updated from the current 32-bit to 64-bit... same with Davlik. This could involve difficult and expensive negotiations with Oracle/Larry Ellison:

 

Dalvik bytecode already has all 64bit data types available in the Java language:

http://www.netmite.com/android/mydroid/dalvik/docs/dalvik-bytecode.html

 

  • Registers are 32 bits wide. Adjacent register pairs are used for 64-bit values.

(So in my understanding, you can easily stream 2 VM registers to a single 64bit register on armv8 machines)

 

But you're right, to "utilize" 64bit just compiling dalvikvm with an arm64 toolchain won't suffice.

Instead they would have to optimize dalvik and the jit compiler to make use of the new armv8 instructions.

 

About the Oracle vs. Google thing, you might be mixing up the Java standard library API and dalvikvm (the former was targeted in court by Oracle).

The java libary is already aware of 64bit operations / data types.

Right now dalvik simply "splits" 64bit operations to run on 32bit wide registers (or if they're smart, they could offload some to the 128bit NEON registers, Idk).

post #217 of 366
Hi everyone,

This will be my second post. I don't know if any non-iphone users are welcomed here, I hope a person who criticizes won't be accused being a troll or something.

I think iPhone is a decent phone, simple, practical and with good build quality, now that they have A7 processors, the competition will fire up. I am surprised that a little larger screen with Full HD resolution was difficult to achieve for Apple. I think they were so busy with the new A7 processors, the finger print (which are all impressive). I hope to see a larger Full HD screen, more RAM and a different iOS that won't persuade some of its users turn to the dark side by jailbreaking it. Some of these innovations will be made with the iphone 6 but until then, who knows, Full HD resolutions, more RAMS and other innovations from other brands will be on their way. Apple still needs another perspective for its innovations.

I would not be too relieved with the brand new A7 or the finger print sensor, there are yet many things to be done. But still, good move not to let Samsung manufacture their processors anymore. Late, but good decision. Now they should make sure that Taiwanese won't tell the secrets.

I know this site is visited mostly by apple fans and admirers but still I should say: Even if exynos 5 octa is not 64 bit and below the new A7 , it still is a very good processor unlike many exaggerated offense to it, here in this article. I accept the fact that exynos octa has cons but it still is very good. Come on, it is not "disastrous". There are many good points with resources in this article but let's be honest, it is written with a little hate.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a troll, I have an iPod touch which I like very much. I never call it "disastrous" even if Safari refreshes the minimized windows everytime which makes reading offline impossible. Some apps crash, but it is not the fault of iPod, if I maintain and know how to use it, those will be seen less.

Talking about iPhone just needs other changes not only in processors but radical innovations in general, in order to persuade users like me to buy it. I hope the 6th or the 7th gen will be the one to buy.

Thanks for the article anyway, have a good day.
post #218 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

You're reading the automated forum posting, not the article as it appears on the site. So what you're complaining about is a Forum presentation error, not a proofreading flaw. 

 

If you find actual typos in the article, please report them and they'll be fixed.

Ok good to know. I was not aware that all the double sentences were an automation error. I refuse to read the main website because of all the animated crap and unfriendly navigation all over the place. I wrote a script that by passes that altogether so I only read the forum version. I suppose it is not too much to ask for the forum readers, who are mostly consuming your content for free, to put up with a few presentation bugs along with all the question marks for apostrophes, etc. as long as it is easier for you guys to 'automatically' post to the forum. Understandable since forum readers aren't really ad clickers, so they don't matter so much to the bottom line.

 

Carry on.

 

M

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post #219 of 366
Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.
post #220 of 366
One word..."wow!" VERY good job writing this article.
post #221 of 366
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post
Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. 

 

Source? I find zero information stating that.

 
…so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

 

Proof? Given Samsung’s past devices, I would be surprised if they had longer than a six week turnaround in designing a new one.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #222 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03N13 View Post

Hi everyone,

This will be my second post. I don't know if any non-iphone users are welcomed here, I hope a person who criticizes won't be accused being a troll or something.

I think iPhone is a decent phone, simple, practical and with good build quality, now that they have A7 processors, the competition will fire up. I am surprised that a little larger screen with Full HD resolution was difficult to achieve for Apple. I think they were so busy with the new A7 processors, the finger print (which are all impressive). I hope to see a larger Full HD screen, more RAM and a different iOS that won't persuade some of its users turn to the dark side by jailbreaking it. Some of these innovations will be made with the iphone 6 but until then, who knows, Full HD resolutions, more RAMS and other innovations from other brands will be on their way. Apple still needs another perspective for its innovations.

I would not be too relieved with the brand new A7 or the finger print sensor, there are yet many things to be done. But still, good move not to let Samsung manufacture their processors anymore. Late, but good decision. Now they should make sure that Taiwanese won't tell the secrets.

I know this site is visited mostly by apple fans and admirers but still I should say: Even if exynos 5 octa is not 64 bit and below the new A7 , it still is a very good processor unlike many exaggerated offense to it, here in this article. I accept the fact that exynos octa has cons but it still is very good. Come on, it is not "disastrous". There are many good points with resources in this article but let's be honest, it is written with a little hate.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a troll, I have an iPod touch which I like very much. I never call it "disastrous" even if Safari refreshes the minimized windows everytime which makes reading offline impossible. Some apps crash, but it is not the fault of iPod, if I maintain and know how to use it, those will be seen less.

Talking about iPhone just needs other changes not only in processors but radical innovations in general, in order to persuade users like me to buy it. I hope the 6th or the 7th gen will be the one to buy.

Thanks for the article anyway, have a good day.

 

I don't detect any hate.

I also don't think Exynos 5 Octa is a disaster. Rather, it's not the future for smartphones. Remember Itanium? It's something like that. At one point in the past, Intel had planned to sell Itanium (aka "IA-64") as their 64-bit chip for servers, and keep desktops on the 32-bit x86  (aka "IA-32"). AMD, who was then a strong competitor, had a better idea: create a 64-bit version of their well-regarded x86-compatible Athlon chip, called the Athlon 64. And Microsoft took notice, creating a version of Windows XP that supported the Athlon 64 instruction set (now called generically, "x86-64"). Intel eventually had to support it too (or risk totally looking stupid), creating 64-bit versions of their x86 chips, and completely scaling back their plans for Itanium, which was a disaster, because as x86-64 started to appear in servers (as the AMD Opteron 64 and Intel Xeon), and it was cheaper and backwards compatible with x86 operating systems, decimating any hope of Itanium ever becoming mainstream. Intel spent several years after AMD released the Athlon 64 ceding the performance and technology crown to AMD. The "NetBurst" architecture just wasn't that good compared to AMD's architecture, and it wasn't until the succeeding "Core" architecture did Intel get back in the saddle.

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post #223 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

 

Rewriting history has already begun, I see.

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post #224 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. 

Source? I find zero information stating that.
Quote:
…so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

Proof? Given Samsung’s past devices, I would be surprised if they had longer than a six week turnaround in designing a new one.

I agree with TS on this...

Conversion to 64-bit hardware, OS, major apps is not trivial. I suspect Apple has been working on this for more than a year -- and they have provided the means to preserve the users' and developers' investment in existing apps.

It would surprise me to see a viable 64-bit device/os deliverable for Android in 2014 -- at least not one that will have any major effect on sales.

And, as many have said, the 64-bit potential lies more in tablets and the AppleTV (and derivatives) -- I believe we will see 64-bit iPads and AppleTV in the last 3 months of 2013.

As to the immediate potential of the 5S (other than the camera and TouchID) it will be interesting to see how much RAM is on the A7 when the tear downs occur. I suspect it will be 2GB RAM -- but 4GB is a whole 'nother story.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/15/13 at 5:07pm
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post #225 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03N13 View Post

Hi everyone,

This will be my second post. I don't know if any non-iphone users are welcomed here, I hope a person who criticizes won't be accused being a troll or something.

I think iPhone is a decent phone, simple, practical and with good build quality, now that they have A7 processors, the competition will fire up. I am surprised that a little larger screen with Full HD resolution was difficult to achieve for Apple. I think they were so busy with the new A7 processors, the finger print (which are all impressive). I hope to see a larger Full HD screen, more RAM and a different iOS that won't persuade some of its users turn to the dark side by jailbreaking it. Some of these innovations will be made with the iphone 6 but until then, who knows, Full HD resolutions, more RAMS and other innovations from other brands will be on their way. Apple still needs another perspective for its innovations.

I don't think it's difficult for Apple to make it "full HD" but that's not high on its list for improvements. Again, Apple doesn't do feature check lists and call it a day. Everything Apple adds has to fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

I can't tell if you're being paid by Google, Sammy, or both.
post #226 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03N13 View Post

Hi everyone,

This will be my second post. I don't know if any non-iphone users are welcomed here, I hope a person who criticizes won't be accused being a troll or something.

To most here, reasoned opinions and discussions are welcome.

Quote:

I think iPhone is a decent phone, simple, practical and with good build quality, now that they have A7 processors, the competition will fire up. I am surprised that a little larger screen with Full HD resolution was difficult to achieve for Apple. I think they were so busy with the new A7 processors, the finger print (which are all impressive). I hope to see a larger Full HD screen, more RAM and a different iOS that won't persuade some of its users turn to the dark side by jailbreaking it. Some of these innovations will be made with the iphone 6 but until then, who knows, Full HD resolutions, more RAMS and other innovations from other brands will be on their way. Apple still needs another perspective for its innovations.

I disagree with the need for "Full HD Resolution" (whatever that is) on a phone -- reasonably-priced tablets are a much better vehicle to deliver HD.

Also, I think that iOS7 (which I have been using since July) is the best mobile (and dedicated device) OS out there. I think that users that root or jailbreak their devices are an infinitesimally small minority -- and tend to buy on the cheap. Sure, they are the "hobbyists" of today, and they help advance technology -- but they aren't worth targeting by Apple or any other OEM.

Quote:

I would not be too relieved with the brand new A7 or the finger print sensor, there are yet many things to be done. But still, good move not to let Samsung manufacture their processors anymore. Late, but good decision. Now they should make sure that Taiwanese won't tell the secrets.

Hopefully... Once burned, twice shy!

Quote:

I know this site is visited mostly by apple fans and admirers but still I should say: Even if exynos 5 octa is not 64 bit and below the new A7 , it still is a very good processor unlike many exaggerated offense to it, here in this article. I accept the fact that exynos octa has cons but it still is very good. Come on, it is not "disastrous". There are many good points with resources in this article but let's be honest, it is written with a little hate.

DED, the author of the article, has an agenda and biases -- sometimes they just simmer in the background... Other times they overwhelm the message and defeat the purpose of the article...

This one, I agree, some "hate" shows through -- but not so much to totally defeat the message of the article.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I am not a troll, I have an iPod touch which I like very much. I never call it "disastrous" even if Safari refreshes the minimized windows everytime which makes reading offline impossible. Some apps crash, but it is not the fault of iPod, if I maintain and know how to use it, those will be seen less.

Talking about iPhone just needs other changes not only in processors but radical innovations in general, in order to persuade users like me to buy it. I hope the 6th or the 7th gen will be the one to buy.

Thanks for the article anyway, have a good day

You don't come across as a troll!

I think most of the things you are looking for will happen in iOS7, the iPhone, and iPads in 2014 -- at the same time the competition is trying to match where Apple is today.
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post #227 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

Rewriting history has already begun, I see.

It seems to me things really are different this time. For every other major announcement from Apple, the Fandroids and Samsung shills have their talking points ready made and just trot them out. There's so much floundering and desperate spluttering this time around that I have to believe they actually were caught with their pants down for real. Samsung's "Us too, us too!" announcement was just the icing on the cake.
post #228 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

 

I try to keep up on Android news as much as I can and I've never heard any mention that Android 4.4 (KitKat) will be a 64-bit OS.

post #229 of 366

I saw OpenGL 3.0ES mentioned in the article (and that iOS 7 supports it on the iPhone 5s) but I didn't see anywhere that the Galaxy GS4 only supports OpenGL 3.0 if it's the Snapdragon version. The Exynos Octa does not support OpenGL 3.0 since the hardware (GPU specifically) doesn't.

 

More fail from Samsung - GS4's made with the Octa (which is the faster SoC according to benchmarks) lack support for the latest version of OpenGL.

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post #230 of 366
While I was watching the liveblog, the biggest question that occured to me was this: Why the hell is Apple trupeting tech specs at an iPhone rollout? This is massively out of character for them. Apple is all about "user experience", not specs. Not feature checklists.

Yet here is their marketing guy talking about word length, general-purpose and floating-point registers, die size, etc.

WTF!!!

What percentage of "normal" iPhone customers would even have a clue what the hell Phil was talking about?

I guessed that this is a shot across the bow of Samsung and, perhaps, Intel. Samsung because (perhaps) Apple saw an opportunity to embarass them in the feature checklist race. And Intel because this means more bad news for what's left of the Wintel duopoly.

I couldn't believe that none of the usual A-list bloggers took up the challenge and tried to inform me. But this article does. That's why its so important. I think this helps inform what Apple might mean by that "most forward" remark. Sure, the 5s is the new cell phone, but that's just the start. They might mean that this is just the first of a new line of more capable mobile devices.

That's why it might be a warning shot over Intel's head. Perhaps it is the start of the Second Act of the ARM revolution -- where ARM processors become powerful enough to do more jobs.

[BTW, "ARM" stands for "Acorn RISC Machine". The huge majority of Apple's profits are comfortably riding on the backs of RISC processors! When was the last time that occurred in the computer industry?]

The PC market is saturated and the explosive growth in computing is in mobile. And Intel's scrambling to get into mobile with their fabulous lineup of CISC processors. That's why.

It's ironic to say this about one of DED's articles, but this is just the start of the story. Last week Apple announced that they've reach a new plateau in ARM processors. Next, they will tell us the new jobs that they have hired the this generation of processors to do.
post #231 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damfino View Post

While I was watching the liveblog, the biggest question that occured to me was this: Why the hell is Apple trupeting tech specs at an iPhone rollout? This is massively out of character for them. Apple is all about "user experience", not specs. Not feature checklists.

Yet here is their marketing guy talking about word length, general-purpose and floating-point registers, die size, etc.

WTF!!!

What percentage of "normal" iPhone customers would even have a clue what the hell Phil was talking about?
 ...

They do trump tech specs from time to time, the user experience part was done earlier this year at WWDC when iOS7 was announced. Look back at previous events, I don't recall a hardware event where they didn't talk about hardware improvements, because that is a selling point. Who do you think Apple invites to these events? They are the exact people who will explain everything again (and again) to their own readers.

post #232 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Folks, obviously 64 bit has been in the works, already, in Android. Kit Kat was named and soon will be announced, so development is pretty deep into it, already. Kit Kat will be having 64 bit support from Google. Also, the Galaxy S5 is due in Feb/March timeline and Samsung said their next phone would be 64 bit, so development is well underway before the iPhone 5S announcement.

OK, just show us a link to a reputable source which says that Kit Kat will be 64 bit.
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post #233 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damfino View Post

I guessed that this is a shot across the bow of Samsung and, perhaps, Intel. Samsung because (perhaps) Apple saw an opportunity to embarass them in the feature checklist race. And Intel because this means more bad news for what's left of the Wintel duopoly.

This triggered a thought about the Tizen OS. Intel and Samsung have teamed up to design, develop and sell this mobile OS to compete with iOS.

It would be interesting to see Apple add the A7 chip to a desktop/notebook Mac that competes with Intel's processors.

The Mac Mini would be a great test bed for the A7 processor!
post #234 of 366
ARM chips like the A7 (now that it's 64-bit) might be interesting if anybody decides to try massive parellelism like on the Connection Machine again—what with their low-power design and the 1 or 2 GB of RAM on (well, on a different layer of) the same chip.
post #235 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Pretty sure that's not what he means since the Galaxy S4 doesn't sell "in tiny volumes", it sells in very large volumes, analagous to the iPhone.

Not even close.
post #236 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


They've also been on the Blu-ray board since its creation.

No, they joined on March 10th, 2005. If you are referring to the Blu-ray Disc association as the "board" then that was inaugurated on October 4, 2004.
post #237 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damfino View Post

While I was watching the liveblog, the biggest question that occured to me was this: Why the hell is Apple trupeting tech specs at an iPhone rollout? This is massively out of character for them. Apple is all about "user experience", not specs. Not feature checklists.

Yet here is their marketing guy talking about word length, general-purpose and floating-point registers, die size, etc.

WTF!!!

What percentage of "normal" iPhone customers would even have a clue what the hell Phil was talking about?

I guessed that this is a shot across the bow of Samsung and, perhaps, Intel. Samsung because (perhaps) Apple saw an opportunity to embarass them in the feature checklist race. And Intel because this means more bad news for what's left of the Wintel duopoly.

I couldn't believe that none of the usual A-list bloggers took up the challenge and tried to inform me. But this article does. That's why its so important. I think this helps inform what Apple might mean by that "most forward" remark. Sure, the 5s is the new cell phone, but that's just the start. They might mean that this is just the first of a new line of more capable mobile devices.

That's why it might be a warning shot over Intel's head. Perhaps it is the start of the Second Act of the ARM revolution -- where ARM processors become powerful enough to do more jobs.

[BTW, "ARM" stands for "Acorn RISC Machine". The huge majority of Apple's profits are comfortably riding on the backs of RISC processors! When was the last time that occurred in the computer industry?]

The PC market is saturated and the explosive growth in computing is in mobile. And Intel's scrambling to get into mobile with their fabulous lineup of CISC processors. That's why.

It's ironic to say this about one of DED's articles, but this is just the start of the story. Last week Apple announced that they've reach a new plateau in ARM processors. Next, they will tell us the new jobs that they have hired the this generation of processors to do.

Check your "facts", ARM is advanced RISC machines

1990

Advanced RISC Machines (ARM) spins out of Acorn and Apple Computer's collaboration efforts with a charter to create a new microprocessor standard. VLSI Technology becomes an investor and the first licensee
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #238 of 366
New A6s and the A7 (28nm) are both dual-sourced from Samsung and TSMC. A8 (20nm) will likely also be dual sourced (Apple's CEO is a supply-chain expert).
Samsung was not blindsided by A7. ARMv8 is still new and even ARM itself continues to find aspects of AArch64 (ARMv8) that need to be specified with greater precision or clarity and significant bugs in their own 64-bit core designs. Also there hasn't been much urgency among the Android and Chrome communities for 64-bit software and cores. (Phones really don't need 64-bit. There is however a significant ARMv8 Linux effort). So if there is surprise at the 64-bitness of Apple's A7 it may simply be that Samsung was surprised that Apple would risk publicizing that their premier product was ARMv8 when the architecture itself, let alone the open-source compiler and low-level libraries, are still technically immature. Hence Samsung's "ARMv8 in the fullness of time" attitude. I don't have knowledge of Apple's internal ARM software ecosystem, but it seems by this 64-bit A7 announcement that Apple is either trying to use 64-bitness as a diversion, and/or more likely, to demonstrate that their proprietary ARMv8 software environment is mature enough to workaround the bugs and ready to take on iOS, OS-X and desktop/laptop class productivity apps like Numbers, Keynote, etc. That it is a very short step from here to A7-based OS-X low-tier high-volume MacBooks is clearly not lost on Intel. At a minimum, Apple's MacBook processor pricing from Intel will now be more as if they were dual-sourced. As one of the possible second sources (among other reasons), Samsung stands to benefit from Apple's announcement and Samsung knows it.
The surprise here, although it shouldn't be in Apple's case (especially to AI readers), isn't the first mass production ARMv8 cores, as difficult as that was, it is the ARMv8 software and everything that goes into it. Hats off to Apple for being first to both and hats off to Apple's leaders for using that technical achievement to increase their leverage over processor pricing from both Samsung and Intel at the same time.
post #239 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartoni View Post

New A6s and the A7 (28nm) are both dual-sourced from Samsung and TSMC. A8 (20nm) will likely also be dual sourced (Apple's CEO is a supply-chain expert).
Samsung was not blindsided by A7. ARMv8 is still new and even ARM itself continues to find aspects of AArch64 (ARMv8) that need to be specified with greater precision or clarity and significant bugs in their own 64-bit core designs. Also there hasn't been much urgency among the Android and Chrome communities for 64-bit software and cores. (Phones really don't need 64-bit. There is however a significant ARMv8 Linux effort). So if there is surprise at the 64-bitness of Apple's A7 it may simply be that Samsung was surprised that Apple would risk publicizing that their premier product was ARMv8 when the architecture itself, let alone the open-source compiler and low-level libraries, are still technically immature. Hence Samsung's "ARMv8 in the fullness of time" attitude.

 

Oh lordy. Samsung wasn't blindsided, but they were rushed into a press release saying "Us too!!!!" and hence Osborning their recent releases. Samsung with go 64-bit "in the fullness of time", nice spin job. Apple innovates, and sends others scrambling, but no, they're just being cautious because the technology is immature. Something, mind you, that is Apple's modus operandi if anything.

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post #240 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartoni View Post

New A6s and the A7 (28nm) are both dual-sourced from Samsung and TSMC. A8 (20nm) will likely also be dual sourced (Apple's CEO is a supply-chain expert).
Samsung was not blindsided by A7. ARMv8 is still new and even ARM itself continues to find aspects of AArch64 (ARMv8) that need to be specified with greater precision or clarity and significant bugs in their own 64-bit core designs. Also there hasn't been much urgency among the Android and Chrome communities for 64-bit software and cores. (Phones really don't need 64-bit. There is however a significant ARMv8 Linux effort). So if there is surprise at the 64-bitness of Apple's A7 it may simply be that Samsung was surprised that Apple would risk publicizing that their premier product was ARMv8 when the architecture itself, let alone the open-source compiler and low-level libraries, are still technically immature. Hence Samsung's "ARMv8 in the fullness of time" attitude. I don't have knowledge of Apple's internal ARM software ecosystem, but it seems by this 64-bit A7 announcement that Apple is either trying to use 64-bitness as a diversion, and/or more likely, to demonstrate that their proprietary ARMv8 software environment is mature enough to workaround the bugs and ready to take on iOS, OS-X and desktop/laptop class productivity apps like Numbers, Keynote, etc. That it is a very short step from here to A7-based OS-X low-tier high-volume MacBooks is clearly not lost on Intel. At a minimum, Apple's MacBook processor pricing from Intel will now be more as if they were dual-sourced. As one of the possible second sources (among other reasons), Samsung stands to benefit from Apple's announcement and Samsung knows it.
The surprise here, although it shouldn't be in Apple's case (especially to AI readers), isn't the first mass production ARMv8 cores, as difficult as that was, it is the ARMv8 software and everything that goes into it. Hats off to Apple for being first to both and hats off to Apple's leaders for using that technical achievement to increase their leverage over processor pricing from both Samsung and Intel at the same time.

 

Your first post.  You claim to know a lot but didn't provide any links to backup up anything.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete...

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete...

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  • After its disastrous Exynos 5 Octa, Samsung may have lost Apple's A7 contract to TSMC
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