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post #121 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

Believe me if Apple had something to shout about they would have already done it. Possibly when 5C and 5s sales are combined some record will be broken and an announcement will be made but the reason for no announcement on the 5C is obvious.

 

My guess is they are not disclosing the number because the number would be meaningless.

 

Let's take the scenario: Apple has not sold vast numbers of 5c. I doubt this is the case, but for the moment just let's assume it is. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It may actually be a good thing (!) if the primary reason is that people are thinking - the 5S is a lot better for not much more cash (this would be my view). In which case, demand for the flagship 5S would be significantly higher, and probably  a good thing for Apple.

 

Then again, that's assuming that Apple makes more money on a 5s. I suspect so, but it may not be by very much. Given a 32Gb 5C is only 100$ short of a 16Gb 5S, and out of that 100$ Apple have increased costs of: a fingerprint sensor; higher quality camera/flash; A7 and M7 processors, and far more expensive case (materials and manufacturing process). OK they save a few $ on storage memory. Still the difference may not be that great.

 

Only when we get combined 5C/5S numbers and the usual cost of manufacturing estimates, will we see how successful the launches have been.

post #122 of 222

Speaking of announcements Apple is rumored (BGR) to have scheduled it's iPad event for October 15th.

 

http://www.macg.co/news/voir/261224/des-stocks-d-imac-au-plus-bas-et-un-special-event-le-15-octobre

post #123 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

The only "point" I can get from any of your posts is that Apple never release model specific sales or pre-order numbers, which is undeniably incorrect.
And that in a couple of weeks Apple will announce X Million IPhones sold in first week (which includes 5s, 5C and 4S) again which I seriously doubt.
Then friend ... I suggest that u have not read all my recents posts here.. Or simply u do not comprehend !
post #124 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


But the 4 and 4S are not new phones. On quarterly conference calls Apple did not break out sales of 5 vs. 4S vs. 4. What's unique this year is Apple released two new phones but only had a presale for one of them. None of us know for certain why only the 5C was presale but its not a surprise to me that Apple would choose to give one one sales number next Monday.

 

I was responding specifically to the poster who said that apple _never_ give model specific sales numbers. They  "always" announce pre-orders and first week sales of new flagship models, when there is something to announce.

 

The same poster seems to think that first week sales will be "quarterly report" style, which would mean they would include 4S sales as well.

 

I

post #125 of 222
So sick of fickle investors. These poor saps have no idea how to estimate anything of value, just in it for the pyramid scheme of it. Buy low sell high. I hope the stock tanks and Apple buys it all up so they can stop having to pander to these bozos. My apologies to the reasonable investors. But I would certainly want out of this ridiculous game if I were you.
post #126 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If they're willing to take this kind of speculative hit by not announcing numbers, it would seem as though the truth would earn an even deeper hit. Sad.

 

Except that they really don't CARE if AAPL drops for a few days and then jumps back.  It's irrelevant to Apple as a business.

post #127 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Then friend ... I suggest that u have not read all my recents posts here.. Or simply u do not comprehend !

 

The sum of your "recent posts" on this thread have been misinformation, followed by a hasty change of argument, followed by a ridiculous repetition  of "you'll get my point"

 

I think I comprehend just fine.

post #128 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I know how much everyone loves polls. 1cool.gif

I've seen a few reader polls on various tech sites and the 5S seems to be an overwhelming favorite (highest 5 to 1- lowest 2 to 1) over the 5C.
I doubt we will ever see this breakdown

I know Apple doesn't break its sales down usually but it would be interesting to see the sales breakdown of the 5S and 5C to see how it compares to the polls.
post #129 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

Am I losing my mind?  The 5c is basically 5 with different "clothes."  Why in the world would they sell like a new model?  To me that is a non-story as the issue is the 5S.

Frankly I have my doubts about the 5S, but that should be the focus, not how a 1 year old phone being re-released in different colors sells.  As for the 5S, it will simply be impossible to match last years sales of the 5 if they arent taking orders online.   I thought $450-460 would be the short term bottom, but looking more like $400 is going to be here by this time next week when they announce sales of the 5S.

Get ready for some more pain in the stock price, going to get ugly.

What they announce will be the total number of iPhones sold over the weekend, no breakdown so no ugliness except whatever ugliness the ignorants want to moot.
post #130 of 222

No numbers will make the analysts happy. Either it won't be enough and Apple won't be meeting their expected targets or they'll sell too many and Apple will be saturating the market which will affect profits in the future.

 

A wise man says nothing, Apple should never have started telling these people any info.

post #131 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I was responding specifically to the poster who said that apple _never_ give model specific sales numbers. They  "always" announce pre-orders and first week sales of new flagship models, when there is something to announce.

The same poster seems to think that first week sales will be "quarterly report" style, which would mean they would include 4S sales as well.

I
This that poster ...
The poster says apple does not like to breakdown sales by models.
The poster says this is an unprecedented year with two new models.
The poster says.. One model has pre launch pre orders.. One does not.
The poster says... If apple chose to put out numbers for both models they would be confusing and inconsistant with one another.
The poster says apple will not show their to hand to rivals by breaking down model sale numbers as it is evident in their quarterly reports.
The poster says .. Apple will put out one number for total new iphone sales after the launch weekend.
I hope this clarifies what the poster said !
post #132 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Nope they have not!
If u disagree.. Please state when and what models and specifics!

 

 

 

Heh. Thanks - patpatpat on your back. Care to apologize Yoji? Heh ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
 

You seem to have changed your tune.

He sure has. ;)

post #133 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

I was responding specifically to the poster who said that apple _never_ give model specific sales numbers. They  "always" announce pre-orders and first week sales of new flagship models, when there is something to announce.

 

The same poster seems to think that first week sales will be "quarterly report" style, which would mean they would include 4S sales as well.

 

I

 

Obviously you don't want to understand what everyone is saying, but let me give it another try.

 

Apple has never rolled out 2 new phones at the same time.  When they roll out a new phone, they announce how many they sold in the first week.  But the other shoe hasn't dropped yet.  No one has been able to buy a 5s, so therefore they can't announce anything about that.

 

My expectation is (along with lots of other people on this thread) is that shortly after the 5s goes on sale, Apple will announce that "the new phones are selling very well, with over _____ million being sold" without specifying the mix of 5c and 5s sales (except perhaps in very broad terms).

 

I would be willing to bet real money that Apple has already taking in 5 million pre-orders for the 5c.  But announcing that figure is only half the story, so Apple will wait a week or two and give a more complete picture.  In the meantime my AAPL stock is down.  Oh well, I wasn't planning to sell this week anyway.

post #134 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


That's why I'm wearing my iwatch, watching my Apple TV set, while playing with my NFC enabled iPhone and Apple netbook right now.
 

 

You'll have all of those things in the next few years, except the netbook.  That one is already here as the iPad.

post #135 of 222
I just think this is bad management by Cook. Again. He seems to lack the ability to put fires under people's asses. If the 5C isn't selling the 5S may not sell. My feeling is people who can afford a 5C can afford a 5S. So they wait.

They wait.
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post #136 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post



Heh. Thanks - patpatpat on your back. Care to apologize Yoji? Heh 1wink.gif
Read all my post 1wink.gif
He sure has. 1wink.gif
post #137 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post



Heh. Thanks - patpatpat on your back. Care to apologize Yoji? Heh 1wink.gif

He sure has. 1wink.gif
Read all my posts..1wink.gif
post #138 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


This that poster ...
The poster says apple does not like to breakdown sales by models.
The poster says this is an unprecedented year with two new models.
The poster says.. One model has pre launch pre orders.. One does not.
The poster says... If apple chose to put out numbers for both models they would be confusing and inconsistant with one another.
The poster says apple will not show their to hand to rivals by breaking down model sale numbers as it is evident in their quarterly reports.
The poster says .. Apple will put out one number for total new iphone sales after the launch weekend.
I hope this clarifies what the poster said !

 

Perhaps you need to clarify what you have said, because you change your position from post to post. Perhaps you should rename yourself Dodjimbo ;)

post #139 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Obviously you don't want to understand what everyone is saying, but let me give it another try.

Apple has never rolled out 2 new phones at the same time.  When they roll out a new phone, they announce how many they sold in the first week.  But the other shoe hasn't dropped yet.  No one has been able to buy a 5s, so therefore they can't announce anything about that.

My expectation is (along with lots of other people on this thread) is that shortly after the 5s goes on sale, Apple will announce that "the new phones are selling very well, with over _____ million being sold" without specifying the mix of 5c and 5s sales (except perhaps in very broad terms).

I would be willing to bet real money that Apple has already taking in 5 million pre-orders for the 5c.  But announcing that figure is only half the story, so Apple will wait a week or two and give a more complete picture.  In the meantime my AAPL stock is down.  Oh well, I wasn't planning to sell this week anyway.

Tell me again why people who can afford a 5C wouldn't wait for a 5S? Only in America as far as I know are preorders subsidised by carriers. The pent up demand - from 4S users - is for a new phone. The 5C would have sold lots at $200 cheaper. At $100 cheaper it's worth waiting for the 5S.
Edited by asdasd - 9/16/13 at 11:53am
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post #140 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Read all my posts..1wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

Apple has never announced model specific numbers.. Prelaunch or post lunch or quarterly!

Following the same tradition.. Apple will announce first weekend sales numbers of all the phones combined after the weekend of 20th!
 
How much clearer can you get than "Apple has never ...."?
 
Do you have it in you to say, "Oops, my bad"? This is your one chance to make yourself credible. If you continue to be *Dodji", no one here will care what you write anymore. :)
post #141 of 222
This is not a good situation for Apple which ever way you look at it. There's a problem with the 5C, its a great phone but with the much more sophisticated 5S going for only a 100 bucks more, people who are in the market for an iPhone upgrade see the relatively small price difference, and are holding out for it instead, and I'm one of those people.

Before the official announcements I was looking to go for the 5C off-contract for the $400-450 price tag I was expecting, then it came out at $550 and I decided to go with the more upmarket 5S with a contract instead. I'm sorry but the 5C is priced too high.
Edited by 1983 - 9/16/13 at 12:02pm
post #142 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I was responding specifically to the poster who said that apple _never_ give model specific sales numbers. They  "always" announce pre-orders and first week sales of new flagship models, when there is something to announce.F

The same poster seems to think that first week sales will be "quarterly report" style, which would mean they would include 4S sales as well.

I
But the difference this time is there are two new phones and only one was available for presale. If both phones had been available for presale Apple would not have broken out sales between the two. I have no idea why Apple chose to do a presale for the 5C and not the 5S. And where is it written that Apple can only announce sales figures after a prelaunch? Just because they've done something in the past doesn't mean they have to keep doing it in the future.
post #143 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

No numbers will make the analysts happy. Either it won't be enough and Apple won't be meeting their expected targets or they'll sell too many and Apple will be saturating the market which will affect profits in the future.

A wise man says nothing, Apple should never have started telling these people any info.

This. I sense a change in Apple's comms; a reversion may be more accurate. From the 64-bit master stroke to the lack of preorder, Apple are getting their ****-you back.

Apple can, should and is operating its business exactly and entirely the way it sees fit, it's shithead analysts that are causing the stock to fall, analysts and "experts" who couldn't run a bath never mind the world's most successful company.

Means bugger all to me. Long on Apple.

Mind not for rent, to any god or government.

Reply

Mind not for rent, to any god or government.

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post #144 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

This is not a good situation for Apple which ever way you look at it. There's a problem with the 5C, its a great phone but with the much more sophisticated 5S going for only a 100 bucks more, people who are in the market for an iPhone upgrade see the relatively small price difference, and are holding out for it instead, and I'm one of those people.

Before the official announcements it was looking like I was going to go for the 5C, to purchase off-contract for the $400-450 price tag I was expecting, then it came out at $550 and I decided to go for the more upmarket 5S with a contract instead. I'm sorry but the 5C is priced too high.

 

Not a good situation for Apple? They got your money didn't they? Whether it is a 5C or a 5S, they got your money so they are probably just fine with how it's turning out.

 

Almost all of Apple's products you can get a better version if you spend a little bit more money. For someone people, saving the money and getting the entry level is enough.

post #145 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I just think this is bad management by Cook. Again. He seems to lack the ability to put fires under people's asses. If the 5C isn't selling the 5S may not sell. My feeling is people who can afford a 5C can afford a 5S. So they wait.

They wait.
Put fires under whose asses? The biggest problem with the 5C is many people think its too expensive. Pricing sits squarely in Cook's lap.
post #146 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


This that poster ...
The poster says apple does not like to breakdown sales by models.
>> You actually said Apple does not release pre-sales numbers, ever. And I showed you very specific examples where Apple has done exactly that, at which you changed to "in quaterly reports blah blah"

The poster says this is an unprecedented year with two new models.
>> In an attempt to make yourself sound credible again. They are 2 very distinct models, no-one is going to be confused if apple publishes results for both. You use this argument to skirt around the possibility that the reason no 5C pre-sale numbers were releases is because they may not be good at all.

The poster says.. One model has pre launch pre orders.. One does not.
>> Exactly my point, what is yours. This thread is specifically about pre-orders.

The poster says... If apple chose to put out numbers for both models they would be confusing and inconsistant with one another.
>> 2M 5C sold 5M 5s sold, what's confusing about that. Beats me.

The poster says apple will not show their to hand to rivals by breaking down model sale numbers as it is evident in their quarterly reports.
>> There are 3rd party bodies that break down iPhone sales nicely without Apples help. Historically they announce NMillion model specific sales in first week, is this information not equally as interesting to rivals?

The poster says .. Apple will put out one number for total new iphone sales after the launch weekend.
>>> Which you seem to indicate will include 4S. I say no. If there is a unified number it will be 5C and 5s
 

I hope this clarifies what the poster said !
>> Clear as mud!
post #147 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post

This. I sense a change in Apple's comms; a reversion may be more accurate. From the 64-bit master stroke to the lack of preorder, Apple are getting their ****-you back.

Apple can, should and is operating its business exactly and entirely the way it sees fit, it's shithead analysts that are causing the stock to fall, analysts and "experts" who couldn't run a bath never mind the world's most successful company.

Means bugger all to me. Long on Apple.
Stock is down over $55 since last Tuesday. There is no good way to spin that. And honestly I will not be surprised to see a price drop on the 5C yet this year. $550 off contract is too expensive for a lot of people this phone might otherwise attract.
post #148 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Perhaps you need to clarify what you have said, because you change your position from post to post. Perhaps you should rename yourself Dodjimbo 1wink.gif
Cute!
But my position has been just one...
Apple will announce one number for all new iphone sales after launch weekend.
( i already stood corrected on the pre launch in the past.. And explained why this year is different due to two new phones . One with presales one without)
I have a feeling u guys dont read carefully.., and just like to rant when challanged!
post #149 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I just think this is bad management by Cook. Again. He seems to lack the ability to put fires under people's asses. If the 5C isn't selling the 5S may not sell. My feeling is people who can afford a 5C can afford a 5S. So they wait.

They wait.

Not this again. You could say the same thing the previous years. Those who could afford the 4S could get the 5, those who could afford the 4 could get the 4S. And yet each time the flagship breaks records and the combined product line sells tens of millions.
post #150 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

Speaking of announcements Apple is rumored (BGR) to have scheduled it's iPad event for October 15th.

 

http://www.macg.co/news/voir/261224/des-stocks-d-imac-au-plus-bas-et-un-special-event-le-15-octobre

 

 

Nice, I need both ipads and an imac.  The nexus 5 should launch around that date too, so new phone too.

post #151 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

This is not a good situation for Apple which ever way you look at it. There's a problem with the 5C, its a great phone but with the much more sophisticated 5S going for only a 100 bucks more, people who are in the market for an iPhone upgrade see the relatively small price difference, and are holding out for it instead, and I'm one of those people.

Before the official announcements I was looking to go for the 5C off-contract for the $400-450 price tag I was expecting, then it came out at $550 and I decided to go with the more upmarket 5S with a contract instead. I'm sorry but the 5C is priced too high.

 

$100 is $100 (i.e., not nothing).  Consider someone (like my wife) who has a iPhone 4 and is ready to upgrade.  She can spend $100 and get a cool new 5c.  Or she can pay twice as much to either double the storage or double the speed and get a fingerprint thing.  For her, the answer was easy.  $299 for a 32GB 5s is lot of money for a phone.  And she likes blue.

 

On the other hand I can "justify" getting the 5s because I develop apps and need to make sure they work on both models ;-)

 

Apple is going to sell plenty of all the new models.  I just hope supply isn't too constrained for the 5c.

post #152 of 222
Apple is a company which keeps the investors completely in the dark. For the way Apple runs its business, it should not be public at all. And given all this, it is not that there is a lot of secrecy when it comes to their product launches.. There are tons of leaks..
When was the last time Apple really surprised you with a secret product? Not in the last 4 to 5 years atleast..
post #153 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


 Why give the competitors the product split between the C and S?

 

Announcing 5C preorders and combined 5C + 5s first week sales doesn't necessarily indicate actual product split at end of first week. In any case the number after the first week has always been announced. It has little bearing on the quarterly combined iPhone sales number and is more an indication of pent up demand.

For example, last year 2M Ip5 sold in first week does not tell you anything about how many sold over the following quarter. 

 

Believe me if Apple had of had 5M 5C pre-orders we would know about it.

post #154 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View PostWhat do the whiny babies of the stock market want, for BOTH the 5c AND the 5s to shatter all previous iPhone sales records in the first 24 hours?

 

They want EPS growth, and they do not have faith it will happen so the stock is going down. That being said that doesn mean Apple wont have EPS growth, its just that right now with what we know it doesnt look good. Maybe the sales will be better than expected or maybe Apple still has more products to launch to address the issue.

post #155 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I just think this is bad management by Cook. Again. He seems to lack the ability to put fires under people's asses. If the 5C isn't selling the 5S may not sell. My feeling is people who can afford a 5C can afford a 5S. So they wait.

They wait.

 

What is exactly "bad management by Cook", and whose trousers does he have to set fire to???

post #156 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Not this again. You could say the same thing the previous years. Those who could afford the 4S could get the 5, those who could afford the 4 could get the 4S. And yet each time the flagship breaks records and the combined product line sells tens of millions.
Difference is the 4 and 4S weren't being advertised as new phones. If Apple had priced the 5C at $400 or even $450 off contract they could probably still make a decent margin and expand to a wider audience. The high end of the market probably isn't interested in a colored plastic phone anyway, Even John Gruber, who wasn't expecting a cheap phone, didnt expect Apple to price it at $550. It pisses me off because I don't want to see people buy a Moto X or Lumia whatever. I want to see them buy an iPhone. Apple could have offered the 5C at a cheaper price without getting into a race to the bottom.
post #157 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Announcing 5C preorders and combined 5C + 5s first week sales doesn't necessarily indicate actual product split at end of first week. In any case the number after the first week has always been announced. It has little bearing on the quarterly combined iPhone sales number and is more an indication of pent up demand.
For example, last year 2M Ip5 sold in first week does not tell you anything about how many sold over the following quarter. 

Believe me if Apple had of had 5M 5C pre-orders we would know about it.
But why would anyone, including Apple be expecting 5M preorders of the 5C? It's not the kind of phone that people would rush to buy like the flagship model with new features. I could see parents buying it for their kids for Christmas. That's not something they would need to do now.
post #158 of 222

One of the Chinese carriers announced pre-orders of over 100K phones.  That seems pretty bad considering the 5 sold 2 million phones in the first three days it was available in China.  So double 100K because there are two carriers and lets say preorders are at 200K that means between now and next Monday they need to sell 1.8 million phones just to equal the iPhone5.

 

I have no doubt through aggressive repurchase plans Apple has manufactured a market for the 5S, the problem is that isnt fooling anyone when it comes to EPS and revenue growth.

 

The phones are great, no doubt about it, but there is a difference between the phone being great and the stock being worth buying.   So we have a situation where Apple needs to sell increasing more ridiculous numbers of phones just to move the EPS up 5 or 10% (by my math almost 27 million extra phones yearly would move EPS 10%).  Apple's growth via smartphones is over and only people with their head in the sand dont see it.  Sure they need to maintain sales to pay dividends, buyback shares, and overpay Cook, but they need another product line or something to move the needle on EPS and that doesnt appear to be happening.

 

So enjoy the great products, but the stock is going nowhere.

post #159 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Stock is down over $55 since last Tuesday. There is no good way to spin that. And honestly I will not be surprised to see a price drop on the 5C yet this year. $550 off contract is too expensive for a lot of people this phone might otherwise attract.

 

Thing is, stock price has nothing to do with the health of the business. Over time, it should reflect the health of the business, but as they say... the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

post #160 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

One of the Chinese carriers announced pre-orders of over 100K phones.  That seems pretty bad considering the 5 sold 2 million phones in the first three days it was available in China.  So double 100K because there are two carriers and lets say preorders are at 200K that means between now and next Monday they need to sell 1.8 million phones just to equal the iPhone5.

I have no doubt through aggressive repurchase plans Apple has manufactured a market for the 5S, the problem is that isnt fooling anyone when it comes to EPS and revenue growth.

The phones are great, no doubt about it, but there is a difference between the phone being great and the stock being worth buying.   So we have a situation where Apple needs to sell increasing more ridiculous numbers of phones just to move the EPS up 5 or 10% (by my math almost 27 million extra phones yearly would move EPS 10%).  Apple's growth via smartphones is over and only people with their head in the sand dont see it.  Sure they need to maintain sales to pay dividends, buyback shares, and overpay Cook, but they need another product line or something to move the needle on EPS and that doesnt appear to be happening.

So enjoy the great products, but the stock is going nowhere.
Well they couldn't have announced pre orders of the 5S because there are no preorders in China yet. I think it was a mistake for Apple to announce preorders for one phone but not the other. Either do them both or do neither.
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