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Lack of iPhone 5c presale announcement causes worry among Apple investors - Page 3

post #81 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

We're talking specifically pre-order announcements here. Apple have done it every year for the 4, 4S and 5. This year they didn't which is reason enough for investors to get concerned.
I


There is no preorder for 5s, so there would be no "yearly pre-order" press announcement that included the 5s. Only the 5C is available pre-order and Apple already have those numbers. 

Is the 5C a new phone? A lot of posters here say no, it is an old phone with a new case and therefore apple won't release numbers for an old phone. That excuse doesn't fly in my book.
I fully disagree.. The 5c is a new phone... It may share specs with the 5. But from apples point of view ., and form factor , style and material it is a new phone.
Yes i stand corrected on presale numbers.. But in those years there was only one new phone announced.

This year is different due to two new phones announced. .. Apple will not confuse everyone by putting out mismatched info.. Prelaunch numbers for 5c... No such number for 5s and then two separate post launch numbers for 5s and 5c.
They will put out one clean number for new iphone sales after the weekend of 20th.
In the same tradition of the quarterly reports!
post #82 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Read my response to that post.. A couple posts above !

 

Believe me if Apple had something to shout about they would have already done it. Possibly when 5C and 5s sales are combined some record will be broken and an announcement will be made but the reason for no announcement on the 5C is obvious.

post #83 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That might be true - if they were making money on the iTunes sales. At one time, they indicated that iTunes was essentially break-even. I suspect that they're making money now due to the greater volume, but it's nowhere near as profitable as the hardware sales.

Apple started breaking out it's iTunes, Software and Services revenue back in January this year. It's not a tiny number either, beating out the income from iPod sales.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/01/28/apple-now-collecting-twice-as-much-from-itunes-software-services-as-from-ipod-sales
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post #84 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

We're talking specifically pre-order announcements here. Apple have done it every year for the 4, 4S and 5. This year they didn't which is reason enough for investors to get concerned.

There is no preorder for 5s, so there would be no "yearly pre-order" press announcement that included the 5s. Only the 5C is available pre-order and Apple already have those numbers. 

Is the 5C a new phone? A lot of posters here say no, it is an old phone with a new case and therefore apple won't release numbers for an old phone. That excuse doesn't fly in my book.

Again Apple has two new phones. Announcing numbers for just one phone model will give info to its competitors. Apple will announce the first weekend numbers for the combined 5C/S.
post #85 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You seem to have changed your tune.
Tune is the same.. But i do stand corrected on pre sale announcements when there was just a single new phone..
There are two new phones this year..
Read post above and u will catch my tune!
post #86 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


I fully disagree.. The 5c is a new phone... It may share specs with the 5. But from apples point of view ., and form factor , style and material it is a new phone.
Yes i stand corrected on presale numbers.. But in those years there was only one new phone announced.

This year is different due to two new phones announced. .. Apple will not confuse everyone by putting out mismatched info.. Prelaunch numbers for 5c... No such number for 5s and then two separate post launch numbers for 5s and 5c.
They will put out one clean number for new iphone sales after the weekend of 20th.
In the same tradition of the quarterly reports!

 

Confuse who? Everyone I know is acutely aware of the differences between 5C and 5s. That reasoning just doesn't fly.

post #87 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Believe me if Apple had something to shout about they would have already done it. Possibly when 5C and 5s sales are combined some record will be broken and an announcement will be made but the reason for no announcement on the 5C is obvious.
It is obvious to u.. Not me.
I think it would have been a mistake to announce individual model numbers... There is a reason why their quarterly reports are not model specific!
post #88 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


Granted you can make good margins on a cheaper product. However if you make 50% margins on a phone costing £100 to make you have made £50 profit. If you make 50% margins on a phone that cost £300 to make you have made £150 profit. Therefore you would have to sell 3 times the number of the cheaper phone to make the same profit.

 

That is like saying Apple should only sell one notebook, the top end BTO rMBP as that provides the most revenue.

 

Whilst you would have to sell 3 times the number in your example you also have to consider that the person who was willing to spend £100 on a phone probably isn't willing to spend £300, so you are increasing your revenues by attracting new customers which were priced out of the iPhone. The trick is to provide enough differentiation between the models so the people who were willing to spend £300 still do and don't drop down to the lower model.

post #89 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


It is obvious to u.. Not me.
I think it would have been a mistake to announce individual model numbers... There is a reason why their quarterly reports are not model specific!

 

Again, we're discussing "pre-order" reports here. Nothing whatsoever to do with quarterly reports, you seem to be "confused" by the topic of discussion. If Apple had 5Million 5C pre-orders, you don't think they'd be shouting it from the tree-tops?

post #90 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Confuse who? Everyone I know is acutely aware of the differences between 5C and 5s. That reasoning just doesn't fly.
Confuse the market in a sense of putting out numbers that are not consistent..
Read my post again.
post #91 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Apple started breaking out it's iTunes, Software and Services revenue back in January this year. It's not a tiny number either, beating out the income from iPod sales.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/01/28/apple-now-collecting-twice-as-much-from-itunes-software-services-as-from-ipod-sales

 

That's an interesting read. Thanks!

post #92 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Confuse the market in a sense of putting out numbers that are not consistent..
Read my post again.

 

From what I gather from everyone on here, the market is already confused when it comes to Apple value. In any case they already confused the market by bucking the trend and not releasing "pre-order" numbers.

post #93 of 222

Are there really Apple investors who are worried?   Or is it really speculators, analysts and the press who are just foaming at the mouth?

 

AppleInsider has gotten so full of  this crap I almost don't visit here anymore.   This used to be a decent website.  

post #94 of 222

I believe the is no announcement since there was no pent up demand compared to the past. These are phones which as people come out of contract will buy.  The think the pre-order this time was more to allow them to judge the production capacity they will have to handle. It has been said a number of time, the smart phone market is near saturation and especially for apple they taken all the high end business and the middle tier customers will not run out and replace their phone until their contract if up and they can get the phone cheap.

 

We are playing in a different market than we were in the past 5 yrs.

post #95 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Well when most investors listen to these clueless, manipulative analysts... Why people would trust strangers with their financial futures is beyond me.

 

You mean the analysts who have all the inside information?  The analysts whose job security depends on being more right than wrong in their expectations in spite of having no control over the price of stocks?  They're definitely just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

post #96 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Again, we're discussing "pre-order" reports here. Nothing whatsoever to do with quarterly reports, you seem to be "confused" by the topic of discussion. If Apple had 5Million 5C pre-orders, you don't think they'd be shouting it from the tree-tops?
The reason is apple does not like to give too much detail in their phone sales breakdown. As it is evident in their quarterly reports...
This year id unprecedented because there are two new phones!
Spple is not going to reveal their hand to the market and rivals .. By breaking down model specific numbers.
They will release one combined iPhone sales number after the launch weekend.
They wont report this inconsistent mess of numbers:
5c pre launch, . 5s. Of sorry we don't have such numbers., 5c post launch.. ( oh but sorry there was pre launch numbers that effect this numbers) and 5s post launch.( but don't compare to 5c please.. Because 5s did not have pre launch)..
They will keep it simple and announce one number after the launch weekend !
post #97 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

It appears to me that Wall Street suffers from cognitive dissonance when it comes to Apple. They wanted a cheap iPhone, but if they actually got a cheap iPhone they would instantly switch gears to fears about declining margins. You can't have cheap AND margins at the same time but Wall Street thinks Apple should. Market share is the be-all end-all requirement but when profit falls alarm bells go off. Apple makes the majority of the profit in mobile market but that doesn't count apparently. This two-faced approach by Wall Street almost guarantees AAPL will suffer no matter what Apple does, sells, or profits.

And as Apple fans why do we care about the stock price or market share anyway? I'll tell you why. Because the iHaters use these metrics to "prove" Apple is doomed and we react to that nonsense. We have so much emotional investment in Apple that we can't stand to hear the naysayers taunting us.

That needs to change.

Agreed. The naysayers will never understand Apple's modus operandi. It's always been about the great products not the statistics.
 
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post #98 of 222
Just call the 5c a "hobby" and get on with it!
 
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post #99 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

From what I gather from everyone on here, the market is already confused when it comes to Apple value. In any case they already confused the market by bucking the trend and not releasing "pre-order" numbers.
Market has confused it self through typical impatience.
They will announce number after launch weekend !
post #100 of 222

We'll see.

 

But at £465.  It's nearly £500 for last year's phone in plastic.  Audacious.  Hubris.  Greedy.  

 

Short sighted.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #101 of 222

As for the share price.  *shrugs.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #102 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

I want to see the phones in person before I purchase them. 

That's very un-Apple-like. lol.gif
 
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post #103 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

Nothing to worry about. They now have two lines of iPhones and they want to announce it together. If they announced how popular or unpopular the 5c is, the 5s launch could be altered so they are hanging in there until the dust settles.

 

Agreed.  That number, next Monday would most likely be a SURPRISE.... :)

post #104 of 222
A classic investors trick, cause suspicion to lower stock price, buy buy buy.
Then sell sell sell on stock up ramp.
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post #105 of 222
I wish Tallest were around. He would clarify all this mumbo jumbo. 1bugeye.gif
 
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post #106 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

It appears to me that Wall Street suffers from cognitive dissonance when it comes to Apple. They wanted a cheap iPhone, but if they actually got a cheap iPhone they would instantly switch gears to fears about declining margins.

How do you know? Did Apple ever released a cheap iPhone and the markets plummeted? No? Then how do you know how the markets would have reacted to a cheap iPhone? You are just speculating without any base.

post #107 of 222
everyone, focus on the larger issue, China. The sales will be through the roof in China, we are a tiny market compared to China. China Mobile ALONE has over 700m subscribers, 2x the US population! Even if they sell a paltry % of that say 5% thats over 30m phones.
post #108 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


They will release one combined iPhone sales number after the launch weekend.
 

 

Again you are wrong. Apple announce the new flagship specific model sales a week after sales begin. 

 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/24iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-Top-Five-Million.html

 

This number does not include "all" models, in the example above 4S and 4 are NOT included.

post #109 of 222

Time to go private

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post #110 of 222
with regard to the 5c: yesterday unlocked models were 'delivers 09/20'; today they are 'available to ship by 09/25'. carrier-specific phones are still delivering on 09/20. whatever that means 1smile.gif
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post #111 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

I wish Tallest were around. He would clarify all this mumbo jumbo. 1bugeye.gif

 

Please don't glorify him 

post #112 of 222

My only rationalisation of the 5c price is that when Apple intro's the 5+ or '6' with a 4.8-ish screen, the 5c will be 'old' enough in spec similar to the 4s idea in the current £350 bracket.

 

The 5S may go middle ground £450.

 

...and the + model at £540.

 

Something like that.  

 

You'd have a phone and a price for most people that way.

 

2014.  Will be more interesting for me, I think...re: iPhone.  I'd like a slightly bigger and wider screen rather than get eye strain on the 4 inch and narrow screen.  *said as a '5' owner.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #113 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
 

If Apple is going to be profitable, wouldn't you want to buy, not sell??

 

The stock is trading pretty low at $454...how low do you think it's going to go?

There is not a single person in the world who knows that. Why do you think anyone here knows the answer?

post #114 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Again you are wrong. Apple announce the new flagship specific model sales a week after sales begin. 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/24iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-Top-Five-Million.html

This number does not include "all" models, in the example above 4S and 4 are NOT included.
Whatever floats your boat friend.
Just remember that this year is the only year so far with two new models .
Read my post a bit more carefully and u will get my point!
post #115 of 222

There is some merit to YoJimbo's argument.

 

5C sales will both both incremental and canabalistic. If Apple launched the 5S into a vaccuum it will sell more than with the 5C present. Total unit sales will be a more meaningful statistic, especially given the fairly similar price points. 

 

I do agree that the lack of announcement likely indicates figures below the launch figures of the 5 the year prior, but again, the flagship phone will significantly outsell the 5C. Apple likely believes such an announcement would be viewed negatively by the market and instead chose to wait until the 5S opening weekend to report any kind of sales figures. (note: interpreted negatively by the market doesn't mean correctly per the reasons above).

 

It would be pretty amazing if their alternative model sold in numbers greater than the 5 a year ago. In such an event, Apple's stock should skyrocket

 

The problem is people are not sure how they should interpret the 5C yet. Its not going to be the volume driver people anticipated when they thought Apple was releasing a low cost device. Will it be 30% of units shipped? 50%? 10%? 

 

Sentiment is negative so people will assume the worst i.e. >50% until proven otherwise. 

post #116 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post


Whatever floats your boat friend.
Just remember that this year is the only year so far with two new models .
Read my post a bit more carefully and u will get my point!

 

The only "point" I can get from any of your posts is that Apple never release model specific sales or pre-order numbers, which is undeniably incorrect.

And that in a couple of weeks Apple will announce X Million IPhones sold in first week (which includes 5s, 5C and 4S) again which I seriously doubt.

post #117 of 222

What do the whiny babies of the stock market want, for BOTH the 5c AND the 5s to shatter all previous iPhone sales records in the first 24 hours?

 

What?  They expect iPhone sales magically to DOUBLE, just because Apple stuck a pretty plastic back on the old iPhone 5?

 

I'm sure Apple will sell plenty of phones.  Plenty.  Record numbers of TOTAL iPhone sales.

 

Will that make any difference for the stock price?  Probably not.

post #118 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Again you are wrong. Apple announce the new flagship specific model sales a week after sales begin. 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/24iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-Top-Five-Million.html

This number does not include "all" models, in the example above 4S and 4 are NOT included.
But the 4 and 4S are not new phones. On quarterly conference calls Apple did not break out sales of 5 vs. 4S vs. 4. What's unique this year is Apple released two new phones but only had a presale for one of them. None of us know for certain why only the 5C was presale but its not a surprise to me that Apple would choose to give one one sales number next Monday.
post #119 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Again Apple has two new phones. Announcing numbers for just one phone model will give info to its competitors. Apple will announce the first weekend numbers for the combined 5C/S.

 

That's aligned with their quarterly report practises.

post #120 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

You mean the analysts who have all the inside information?  The analysts whose job security depends on being more right than wrong in their expectations in spite of having no control over the price of stocks?  They're definitely just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

That's why I'm wearing my iwatch, watching my Apple TV set, while playing with my NFC enabled iPhone and Apple netbook right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Again you are wrong. Apple announce the new flagship specific model sales a week after sales begin. 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/24iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-Top-Five-Million.html

This number does not include "all" models, in the example above 4S and 4 are NOT included.

There are two new models now. Why give the competitors the product split between the C and S?
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