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UBS: Apple deserves benefit of doubt with iPhone 5c pricing - Page 2

post #41 of 92

I just dont get all the attention the 5c is getting.  Functionally it isnt much different than the 5 so pricing the 5c at the old phone's price makes sense as it will serve largely the same function from a price point standpoint.  I can only assume it is cheaper to make and Cook is trying to improve margins by filling a role by replacing the 5 with a phone with better margins.  That leads me to wonder if every prior model is going to be discontinued to be replaced by a "plastic" phone once the new premium phone comes out.  Or maybe I'm wrong and they just need the 5C to work in developing countries as a premium phone.  Either way expecting big sales seems like a stretch.

 

Considering later model phones make up half of Apple's smartphone sales if they can improve margins that could have a nice boost to EPS.

post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

I just dont get all the attention the 5c is getting.  Functionally it isnt much different than the 5 so pricing the 5c at the old phone's price makes sense as it will serve largely the same function from a price point standpoint.  I can only assume it is cheaper to make and Cook is trying to improve margins by filling a role by replacing the 5 with a phone with better margins. 

I doubt if that's the driving force. I think they've decided that they want to broaden the line to appeal to a different group of customers. The lower cost (which is probably not as big a difference as you think) is just a side benefit.
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post #43 of 92
I think they priced it at $550 because they can. Since none of us knows how much the damn thing costs to manufacture or license tech for, let's assume the margin is huge. Fine. They did it because they're Apple and they can get away with it, and that's business. If it fails then maybe they'll lower the price but I'd be surprised to see that happen.

The day someone else makes a smartphone I trust (security and stability), find to be attractive and durable (build quality), and actually look forward to using (OS/ecosystem) - AND they sell it for drastically less money, then myself and millions like me will defect to that mystical company with the low margins and more friendly prices. But since no such product or company exists, I will continue to pay the "Apple tax" for fantastically well-designed devices that work - and I'll feel secure in the knowledge that I need not worry about malware, illicit theft of personal information, or progressively declining performance due to cheap drivers, software, lack of engineering forethought etc.

You can't base your estimate of a products' sales potential solely on your own personal preference. Tim Cook clearly doesn't. I would imagine his next iPhone will be a 5s, not the 5c. Because he specifically would have reason to care about the added security measures and the speed. Others of us don't need a fingerprint reader or play graphics-intensive games and would prefer to spend that "negligible" $100 on groceries. TC sees that and is positioning Apple to provide a device that meets our needs.

The issue with all the detractors who begin their complaints with the question, "Who would pay $550 for THAT?!" is that they mistakenly consider the question rhetorical when it's not. There are many, many answers to that question. I happen to be one of them. I'm bored of the glass and aluminum design and can't wait for my baby blue iPhone 5c since the more-expensive 5s includes several differentiating features that mean nothing to me. A couple more potential buyers are mentioned in this thread. Assuming everyone should get the 5s simply because it's "better" is silly and makes me think of a Best Buy salesman trying to sell an Alienware machine to an elderly person who just wants access to email. I get that it's more advanced...but it's not for me.

The 5c is worth $550 to me and probably a lot of other people too. For me it's simply the upgrade from my iPhone 4 to a 4G/LTE 4" screen phone that is exciting. The 5s isn't worth $650 to me because quite frankly it's not worth $600 to me either. Because it's not the model I choose to fit my needs. Options are good, people.
post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So we're supposed to believe Apple priced the 5C at $550 because if they priced it any lower they wouldn't have been able to make them fast enough? I guess then I'd tell people who aren't desperate to wait a few months when it comes down in price.
Not a few months, but a little longer. In twelve months when the next product realignment takes place because of new model introductions, the 5c will take the place of the 4S as the new "free on contract" offering.

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post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

Will it sell in China? Yes. Will it sell well? Yes. Will it have a breakthrough? No. It will be a niche product.
You could be right, but this is the same thing that was said when the original iPhone was introduced - too expensive and niche product.

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post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I doubt if that's the driving force. I think they've decided that they want to broaden the line to appeal to a different group of customers. The lower cost (which is probably not as big a difference as you think) is just a side benefit.
Who are they appealing to at $550? I just saw on another site that French media is reporting low interest in 5C but 5S should do well. If Apple had priced th 5C at $50-$100 cheaper I think it would do better at broadening the customer base.
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_sanders_aia View Post
 

Apple, of course, could have priced the 5C as 'free' with contract, and/or, let's say, $399 off-contract, but there would be massive global buying, short supply...

 

And that's bad for Apple how? Apple has always fed off of buying frenzies and short supply of their products.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post


Not a few months, but a little longer. In twelve months when the next product realignment takes place because of new model introductions, the 5c will take the place of the 4S as the new "free on contract" offering.

 

As if Apple has the luxury of waiting a year to price the 5C where it should have been priced now.

 

In a year it will be old news and no one is going to care what price it is (much like how no one cares or notices the price of the 4S today). Also by then the innards of the phone will be 2 years old. I personally wouldn't want someone to buy an outdated plastic phone even if it were from Apple, and $450 would be far too much for such a device.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post


You could be right, but this is the same thing that was said when the original iPhone was introduced - too expensive and niche product.

 

And Apple promptly lowered the price by $300 weeks after launch....

post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Who are they appealing to at $550? I just saw on another site that French media is reporting low interest in 5C but 5S should do well. If Apple had priced th 5C at $50-$100 cheaper I think it would do better at broadening the customer base.

The same group that bought the 4S last year or the 4 two years ago for $550.

And how would the French media know anything?
post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Who are they appealing to at $550? I just saw on another site that French media is reporting low interest in 5C but 5S should do well. If Apple had priced th 5C at $50-$100 cheaper I think it would do better at broadening the customer base.

 

This is especially an issue overseas.

 
I think the $99 on contract price was the right decision but off contract it should have been $399.
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

Not a few months, but a little longer. In twelve months when the next product realignment takes place because of new model introductions, the 5c will take the place of the 4S as the new "free on contract" offering.
The problem is this US centric on contract mentality. The rest of the world is not as hooked on carrier subsidies. Also some carriers are reducing their subsidies. Bloomberg is reporting two Chinese carriers have done just that. And when that happens its the customer that pays more for the phone up front. Also the trend is starting to get away from carrier subsidies. A lot of people don't want to be locked into two year contacts any more. For them $550 for a plastic phone is expensive.
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

The same group that bought the 4S last year or the 4 two years ago for $550.

And how would the French media know anything?
Because they're hearing it from carriers who are reporting low demand. But maybe the French just aren't in to colored plastic.
post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

This is especially an issue overseas.
 
I think the $99 on contract price was the right decision but off contract it should have been $399.
Except the AT&T/Verizon subsidy is $450. So that basically puts a floor on the off contract price. But why couldn't Apple price the phone at $450 with a $350 carrier subsidy? Bottom line is $549 for a 16GB unlocked plastic phone is expensive. I don't care if its the best fucking plastic phone Jony Ive ever built.
post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerTenor View Post

I think they priced it at $550 because they can. Since none of us knows how much the damn thing costs to manufacture or license tech for, let's assume the margin is huge. Fine. They did it because they're Apple and they can get away with it, and that's business. If it fails then maybe they'll lower the price but I'd be surprised to see that happen.
It remains to be seen if Apple can get away with it. The question becomes, is Apple a product company or a profit margin company? Because the 5C pricing wreaks of some bean counter saying 'older models are selling well so we need an older model that is cheaper to make so margins are better'. Now don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that 5C is a great phone, a well built phone. Jony Ive & Co. don't build junk. But I think it's too expensive. Price it $50-$100 cheaper and it would be huge. As it is priced now I think it will be modestly successful.
post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Or...you can wait until Apple does announce numbers. You know: real data? Something investors in financial markets used to make buy/sell decisions on? Before hysteria and hearsay took over? Sheesh.

 

 

Wall Street doesn't have that luxury.  If every stock was priced on its current value and latest reported sales, there would be no stock markets and people wouldn't invest in companies.  People don't invest $5 to get $5 back, they invest on speculation that their $5 is going to be worth more in the future.  The whole trick to it is who can most accurately predict the future.  That is analysts' job and its not an easy one.

 

Wall Street looks at where there's more money to be made.  Hmmmm..... phone market stagnant in more advanced countries.  Growth market is in Asia, especially China.  If Apple makes a low cost cell phone that appeals to the Chinese, they'll make a lot more money (Wall Street doesn't give a rats ass about 'quality' or 'good'- they care about $).  Apple indicates they are making a lower cost phone....

Wall Street guesses they will be worth quite a bit more when that happens and starts buying and estimating a higher valuation.  Apple delivers.... not what Wall Street expected.  "Oh, Apple isn't going for that juicy Chinese market and is giving it up to Android and the Chinese manufacturers.  They still make nice phones, but they aren't going to make as much money as we had expected."  Stock drops.  Its really not an evil process and no one is getting 'punished'

 

What the jitteriness really shows is no one really knows what to make of the 5c.   Fasten your seat belt and hang on for the ride, this one could go either way.

post #55 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

AAPL doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt. If they were trying to match the bodily functions of death the company couldn't have picked 4 fuglier colors! Any magic this company had is gone and as a Apple early adopter and investor I couldn't be more disgusted with management. We have the worst of Jerry Yang and Steve Balmer in Tim Cook, a guy who couldn't get it right if his life depended on it. Based on its new products I can confidently say APPLE SUCKS!

 

The problem with the internet is anyone can post a totally ridiculous comment, and unfortunately they often do. The fact is that Apple is still firing on all cylinders beautifully. The fact that you don't like the colors is inconsequential to everything Apple is doing right. The colors will appeal to some, and to others not. However, as DED stated so eloquently this week right here on AI, Apple has done an incredible job of innovating in the last year. If you are unable to see that, then you are not a very smart investor.

post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

Apple indicates they are making a lower cost phone....
Wall Street guesses they will be worth quite a bit more when that happens and starts buying and estimating a higher valuation.  Apple delivers.... not what Wall Street expected.

When exactly did Apple officially indicate they were preparing a low-cost iPhone? What's amusing to me about this whole debacle is that they never said any such thing. People just made that up for page views. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I can tell the only thing APPLE ever officially indicated was that there was an event on September 10th. Everything else was made up for page views.
post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmamatic View Post

Right now China is the REAL target. Right now it's 1984 in China. Not in the Orwellian sense. China is obsessed with status, style, and impressions. The flashier and more costly something is the more desirable it is. America was this way in the 80s (and still is to a certain extent). The Chinese are obsessed with showing off what they got. Trust me. The colorful iPhones (in a palette, by the way, very appealing to the fashion conscious Chinese) with a still premium price will sell very well where it counts. Anyone discounting Apple for this strategy needs to open their eyes to the new world around them and realize that life isn't lived in one's own backyard.

Tim Cook is brilliant.
The new iPhones are spot on for what the market needs.
I think this will all work and work very well.

Well said!!!!! As an expat living in China you are spot on...

post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post
 

Right, China is the real target because the rest of the world is already fed up with AAPL! Asia is Apple's last gasp and only hope to not entirely go down the crapper. Samsung and Google have eaten AAPl's lunch -- past tense, game over! With Steve gone Apple has become a pathetic joke unable to protect its core IP and brand. 

 

AAPL > $447 and free falling............................

How wrong, and annoying, can you possibly be? Clueless is the perfect descriptor.

post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post
 

 

In order to break through in China Apple would have had to priced this mid tier. Remember that in China the product is going to cost more and that there is no option to put the cost of the device into the contract. They have to pay for it up front. And, people tend to have less money in China than the US.

 
Will it sell in China? Yes. Will it sell well? Yes. Will it have a breakthrough? No. It will be a niche product.

 

With all due respect, as to China, you have no clue what you are talking about. Consumers in China have one of the highest savings rates in the world, and will save for months to buy a luxury product, an iPhone included. It is now the second largest luxury goods market in the world, and is estimated to become the largest within just the next few years. As an expat living in China I know exactly what I am talking about. The number of Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches, etc. on the streets here is mind boggling! Even young working girls living at home will save for months to buy a real LV handbag. Further, the carriers are offering deals on the phones as well as payment plans so Apple will continue to do quite well here. And later this year, when the China Mobile deal finally launches, the market is going to explode. There are already 35 million iPhones on their network even thought they only work at 2G speeds as they are not compatible with their high speed network. With the new phones now able to work on their new LTE network sales are going to explode among their 700 MILLION customers.

post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Except the AT&T/Verizon subsidy is $450. So that basically puts a floor on the off contract price. But why couldn't Apple price the phone at $450 with a $350 carrier subsidy? Bottom line is $549 for a 16GB unlocked plastic phone is expensive. I don't care if its the best fucking plastic phone Jony Ive ever built.

I see you spiraling more and more out of control on this. You are not basing your opinion, ok judgment, about the price on the factors we plainly have to work with. I've mentioned them before, maybe to you, but I don't see any sign that you agree with the logic.

One more time. The 5 would normally be sold unchanged for the same price as the 5C this time around for the same as they've priced the 5C. But the 5C has some expensive changes that you are not taking into account: the radios, the front camera, an elaborate new manufacturing process for the case that has to be paid for, and twelve or eighteen new variations that have to be rationalized in supply, production and inventory, etc.

You want them to just give all this away and cut into their margins? You want to assume that you know their costs and pricing strategies better than they do? Please at least acknowledge these issues if you want to be taken seriously here.
post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

It remains to be seen if Apple can get away with it. The question becomes, is Apple a product company or a profit margin company? Because the 5C pricing wreaks of some bean counter saying 'older models are selling well so we need an older model that is cheaper to make so margins are better'. Now don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that 5C is a great phone, a well built phone. Jony Ive & Co. don't build junk. But I think it's too expensive. Price it $50-$100 cheaper and it would be huge. As it is priced now I think it will be modestly successful.

Same with this post, which reeks of Internet armchair bean counting. They are not increasing margins with the 5C, they are maintaining margins. They would be pilloried for exploiting the advantage that plastic supposedly gives them. In fact, the advantages of using plastic won't be felt for several months or a year, or more. (That's a reasoned conclusion. I can't cite any hard data yet.)
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

AAPL doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt. If they were trying to match the bodily functions of death the company couldn't have picked 4 fuglier colors! Any magic this company had is gone and as a Apple early adopter and investor I couldn't be more disgusted with management. We have the worst of Jerry Yang and Steve Balmer in Tim Cook, a guy who couldn't get it right if his life depended on it. Based on its new products I can confidently say APPLE SUCKS!
Do you realize Apple is with the iPhone 5S still leading the mobile industry tech ? They are bringing to the market what competitors couldn't dream about. Touch ID, 64 bit system for mobile and a motion sensor co processor. They bring in all that power still maintaining the 112g weight and 7.2mm thickness at a 4 inch screen. Now that's what the customers are buying into. You it seems have fallen for the rest of the competitor paid media, coz you lack common sense to see the truth with your own eyes. Apple is by far ahead of this mobile race by a long shot. The rest if the mobile industry is swimming over an uncertain Android while iOS 7 is pushing mobile software in whole new directions.
post #63 of 92

the amount of analyst/pundit stupidity about the 5c and 5s may be at an all time high this time. and that is saying something!

 

the 5c of course is just last year's iPhone 5 with a modest spec bump and new fun plastic colors. which means an even better iPhone than before for $100 less (or even less than that where discounted). and next year it will replace the 4s, still on sale now, at its $-0- plus contract price point - but the stupidheads just can't wait that long i guess.

 

with this three-model price tiering Apple of course is protecting is overall profit margins instead of joining the android race to the profits bottom. why the stupidheads think selling iPhones at low margins is smart i really can't guess. i suppose they claim it is needed for "market share," because ... well, just because, you know? bragging rights are all that matters!

 

what Apple really IS doing about market expansion this year is finally getting deals in place with the #1 telcos in both Japan and China, two huge markets. the DoCoMo deal is done and look at what is happening!

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/09/15/docomos-move-to-carry-iphone-triggers-price-war-in-japan/

 

the China Mobile deal may also be done, but can't start until CM's 4G network is ready - soon. and if the following report is true, there are already 10's of millions of unlocked/jailbroken iPhones running on its old 2G network now:

 

http://bgr.com/2013/09/16/china-mobile-iphone-42-million-users/

 

now today we are hearing the stupidheads whining about Apple's not releasing first weekend 5c pre-order totals, concluding therefore that must mean sales were poor. instead of the obvious necessity to simply wait a week until both the 5s and 5c are both available for sale/preorder next weekend to have a real idea about overall initial demand. but the stupidheads just can't wait that long either i guess.

 

finally we have stock market "investors" short-selling speculators being cited as a key indicator for both iPhones' prospects. the stupidheads haven't yet grasped that Apple stock is clearly being gamed by the professional traders, cynically using rumors as their market-moving tools. those speculators might even include a few of the stupidheads who are actually just pretending to be that stupid on purpose. very few of these web pundits ever disclose their investments, as real journalists are expected to do ...

post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... according to a new report out from UBS that says Cupertino may have earned the benefit of the doubt.
 

 

That is the understatement of the year.

post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Same with this post, which reeks of Internet armchair bean counting. They are not increasing margins with the 5C, they are maintaining margins. They would be pilloried for exploiting the advantage that plastic supposedly gives them. In fact, the advantages of using plastic won't be felt for several months or a year, or more. (That's a reasoned conclusion. I can't cite any hard data yet.)
How do we know margins aren't increasing? We don't know either way but one would assume Apple didn't move to plastic because its more expensive to manufacture.
post #66 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I see you spiraling more and more out of control on this. You are not basing your opinion, ok judgment, about the price on the factors we plainly have to work with. I've mentioned them before, maybe to you, but I don't see any sign that you agree with the logic.

One more time. The 5 would normally be sold unchanged for the same price as the 5C this time around for the same as they've priced the 5C. But the 5C has some expensive changes that you are not taking into account: the radios, the front camera, an elaborate new manufacturing process for the case that has to be paid for, and twelve or eighteen new variations that have to be rationalized in supply, production and inventory, etc.

You want them to just give all this away and cut into their margins? You want to assume that you know their costs and pricing strategies better than they do? Please at least acknowledge these issues if you want to be taken seriously here.
When did I ever say I wanted Apple to give all this away? The stock is down ~$55 since Apple announced these phones. I'm not the only one questioning the pricing strategy of the 5C. And I'm questioning it because I want more people to chose iPhone. I don't want them to chose a Moto X or Nokia Lumia. But more price sensitive people might go for one of those phones because they're "good enough" and cheaper. And people who aren't price sensitive will just spend $100 more and get the finely crafted (I think Ive used those words) aluminum and glass 5C with all the new features.
post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Right, China is the real target because the rest of the world is already fed up with AAPL! Asia is Apple's last gasp and only hope to not entirely go down the crapper. Samsung and Google have eaten AAPl's lunch -- past tense, game over! With Steve gone Apple has become a pathetic joke unable to protect its core IP and brand. 

AAPL > $447 and free falling............................

Your argument has no supporting statements (so to call it an argument is a misnomer). Back up your claims otherwise your "point" is moot.
post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How do we know margins aren't increasing? We don't know either way but one would assume Apple didn't move to plastic because its more expensive to manufacture.

Thanks for engaging this question. We don't know, as you suggest, but we can reason.

The highest margin would have resulted from just selling the unchanged 5 for another year as the mid-tier $100/$550 phone. But that does nothing for China Mobile, and nothing for the "newness" and young hipster factor, including for Asia, because the iPhone 5 is a work of art, not fun. And the 5 is not durable.

So they redid the phone with new radios, camera, and battery, and invested in new machines and production capability to make that plastic case, which everybody thought, me included, was going to be a simple injection-molded snap-in affair.

Looking at it this way, all the savings they gain from not doing an aluminum back with glass inserts is used up by the changes they had to invest to transform the 5 into a world fun/fashion phone, done well in the usual Ive manner. So until the new plastic production costs are paid down, they might even be taking a cut on their margins for this new phone.

I think many are assuming the plastic back is already cheap to make. It doesn't look like that to me at all.
post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

When did I ever say I wanted Apple to give all this away? The stock is down ~$55 since Apple announced these phones. I'm not the only one questioning the pricing strategy of the 5C. And I'm questioning it because I want more people to chose iPhone. I don't want them to chose a Moto X or Nokia Lumia. But more price sensitive people might go for one of those phones because they're "good enough" and cheaper. And people who aren't price sensitive will just spend $100 more and get the finely crafted (I think Ive used those words) aluminum and glass 5C with all the new features.

No you're not the only one, in fact you're probably with the majority. But you're appealing to the least knowledgeable "authority" possible, the Market.

As far as people choosing Moto or Lumia, they may have to do something like that because the 5C will probably be in short supply for awhile. If not, if they go to the Dark Side only to save a hundred dollars, well, they will get what they paid for.
post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How do we know margins aren't increasing? We don't know either way but one would assume Apple didn't move to plastic because its more expensive to manufacture.

If the 5 would be sold, it would be $100 less than the year before. I doubt going to plastic saved a $100 to add back to margins, all else being equal.
post #71 of 92
Originally Posted by WardC View Post
I had no doubt doubt that the pricing of iPhone 5C was a bad decision, why should Apple have any benefit from this?

 

  $0 $99 $199
2013 iPhone 4 iPhone 4S iPhone 5
2014 iPhone 4S iPhone 5C iPhone 5S

 

Now SHUT UP. All of that ilk. How is this pricing so difficult to comprehend?

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post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post
 

 

In order to break through in China Apple would have had to priced this mid tier. Remember that in China the product is going to cost more and that there is no option to put the cost of the device into the contract. They have to pay for it up front. And, people tend to have less money in China than the US.

 
Will it sell in China? Yes. Will it sell well? Yes. Will it have a breakthrough? No. It will be a niche product.

 

Corrections: there are contract subsidies in China as well. For example with China Unicom currently, if you buy an iPhone 5 with a 2 year contract (286 CNY monthly plan) you only pay 1099 CNY or $180 for the iPhone 5. If you upgrade to the 386 CNY monthly plan, than your iPhone 5 is free. China Telecom have similar contract subsidy programs for the iPhone currently as well, and when China Mobile start selling iPhones officially they'll have them too. I can't image why iPhone 5C and 5S will not have similar contract subsidy programs. iPhone 5C's off contract price is cheaper than current iPhone 5's off contract price in China, so my guess is with the 2 year contract at 286 CNY monthly plan iPhone 5C will around $100 China.

post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

  $0 $99 $199
2013 iPhone 4 iPhone 4S iPhone 5
2014 iPhone 4S iPhone 5C iPhone 5S

 

Now SHUT UP. All of that ilk. How is this pricing so difficult to comprehend?

 

So nothing should ever change at Apple?

 
You better phone Tim and let him know how pissed you are that he changed things up a bit this time around.
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post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

So nothing should ever change at Apple?
 
You better phone Tim and let him know how pissed you are that he changed things up a bit this time around.

There should be a reason for change. Change for the sake of change is pointless.
post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


There should be a reason for change. Change for the sake of change is pointless.

 

Your comment probably makes sense to you.

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post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

There should be a reason for change. Change for the sake of change is pointless.

Agreed! And change to simply satisfy idiot pundits and give them warm fuzzies would be even worse. Why do people keep trying to poke holes in the business model of the world's most profitable company?! It's almost as if the analysts think Apple is listening to them...
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerTenor View Post


Agreed! And change to simply satisfy idiot pundits and give them warm fuzzies would be even worse. Why do people keep trying to poke holes in the business model of the world's most profitable company?! It's almost as if the analysts think Apple is listening to them...

 

Hmmm... Apple just made a change to its business model. Go figure.

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post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hmmm... Apple just made a change to its business model. Go figure.

They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.

If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.
post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerTenor View Post


They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.

If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.

 

You don't know the reason why Apple changed from the 5 to the 5C. I never heard Tim Cook or any other Apple executive tell us the exact reason.

 
Pricing structure alone is not the business model but making a different "new" phone to replace the 5 is absolutely a change to that business model. Apple had a given structure to the way they did business. They have gone to a new model of phone which makes it an unknown in the business model. Apple cannot look at past years and say, "if this then that". Even Apple doesn't know what will happen with the 5C. Apple's business model was based upon last year's phone in the mid-tier area and that changed.

 

[here's an example of how the business model changed:  Some people were depending on the 5 going to the mid-tier level and were going to purchase it. Apple deletes the 5 and introduces the 5C. Now some of the people who were going to buy the 5 are in a quandary because they don't like the 5C. Some of those people buy the 5S instead. Now Apple has people who normally would have bought the 5 buying the 5S. Apple's 5S projections are thrown out the window. / and, yes, you could change that around all you want but the underlying theme is that the business model changed and any projections from previous years get thrown out the window.]


Edited by island hermit - 9/17/13 at 12:17pm
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post #80 of 92
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

So nothing should ever change at Apple?

 

You could not possibly have come to that conclusion from what I posted.

 
You better phone Tim and let him know how pissed you are that he changed things up a bit this time around. 

 

I explicitly stated he didn’t change anything.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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