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Review roundup: iPhone 5s with iOS 7 best smartphone available, 5c offers well-built alternative - Page 3

post #81 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Leave to Businessweek to spoil the fun. 1rolleyes.gif

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-09-17/meet-the-new-iphones-same-as-the-old-iphones-rich-jaroslovsky

And looks like Forbes is joining the party too. 1rolleyes.gif Yeah I get not everyone will love everything in iOS 7 but on the day of release does Forbes really need to start out highlighting what they think are negatives? 1rolleyes.gif

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/forbes/SIG=128hobdpn/*http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/09/18/7-misses-in-ios-7/?partner=yahootix
post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninuola View Post

What smartphone do you think is better than the 5S in the market??
I don't. I was curious to see who wrote it as it surprised me. Not because I don't believe it to be true, but that a techie/journalists would actually admit it considering how many more page views they get when they go negative on Apple.
post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Gotta say, I'm pretty underwhelmed by this announcement. The leaks have gotten so bad that there's very little surprise left at Apple's unveils these days. I kept waiting for the "and just one more thing", but there was none.

The 5S is a much more impressive offering than the 4S. They could have called this one a 6. The 64-bit processor alone makes the phone a standout. The camera upgrades are to be expected, as well as speed bumps. The fingerprint technology is still a bit gimmicky, especially if it doesn't work flawlessly for the majority of customers, mainly because there are no proposed applications for it outside of securing the phone, in the way Passport was touted (perhaps they learned their lesson over that debacle).

That said, 4S customers must be squealing with delight. As a 5 customer, I'm not sure I would pay the early upgrade fee for it.

The 5c is really disappointing. Basically the 5 in a less attractive case for basically the same price as it would have been had Apple continued their previous depreciation model. The big selling point seems to be the colored shell, which most people are going to cover in a case anyway.

And that's it? The big innovation was an expected upgrade of features on their flagship iPhone, plus the addition of gold, and repackaging the 5 in cheaper candy colored housing, falling back on an over a decade old, played-out marketing strategy. And half the new features were already announced months ago with the preview of iOS 7.

Understandable the stock dropped.

And now its up about 2% so far today. If these phones don't wow you because you knew everything beforehand maybe you need to stay away from rumor sites. 1smile.gif
post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

I just thought of something interesting.

Remember when it was predicted the A7 would be 64bit and offer a 31% performance boost? Pretty much everyone (including me) was saying there's no way an A7 would only be 31% faster than the A6 given Apples track record.

Geekbench runs in 32 and 64 bit modes for testing. Looking over Anandtech's results they found that the benchmark was indeed faster in 64bit than in 32bit. How much faster overall?

31%

I doubt that's a coincidence and maybe what the person was referring to is how much performance increase was attributed to the processor being 64bit and not the overall performance increase (which is around double).

Most of the other benchmarks also show significant improvements (keep in mind that the clock speed and number of cores are unchanged). Clearly, 64 bit offers significant advantages - even though the RAM is well below the 4 GB limit. Anand's article provides a ton of benchmark data - and it's pretty clear that nothing else comes close (although Intel's new Atom is within shooting distance - if you could find a phone which used it).
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #85 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If these phones don't wow you because you knew everything beforehand maybe you need to stay away from rumor sites. 1smile.gif
Touché.

The silver lining in being somewhat underwhelmed is that they did not introduce an iWatch, which just sounds like a disaster coming if true. I truly hope it was a leaked rumor based on actual research Apple was conducting but abandoned, forcing Samsung to spend valuable resources in a vain attempt to beat Apple to the punch for once.

Honestly, I really would have liked to see a larger-screened iPhone, not because I want one, but because there are many customers out there who want them. And I wanted to see Apple offer one as an option and show Samsung how do it right.

I mean we've been waiting 11 months for something exciting and this is what Apple offers?
post #86 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I'm not due for a new iPhone but these reviews are making me super excited about the 5th gen iPad. Can't wait to get my hands on that sucker. My 3rd gen is starting to feel a bit sluggish.

 

If you know anything about the relationship between Apple and the media is that the media always bashes features until they actually use the devices... Then all of a sudden the light comes on.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
Reply
post #87 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


And looks like Forbes is joining the party too. 1rolleyes.gif Yeah I get not everyone will love everything in iOS 7 but on the day of release does Forbes really need to start out highlighting what they think are negatives? 1rolleyes.gif

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/forbes/SIG=128hobdpn/*http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/09/18/7-misses-in-ios-7/?partner=yahootix

 

Perhaps they could have written some positive stuff, too. But arguably, the negatives described therein are not off the mark. To wit, how Photostream works on iOS (and MacOS) is disappointing.

post #88 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

If you know anything about the relationship between Apple and the media is that the media always bashes features until they actually use the devices... Then all of a sudden the light comes on.

 

That's not true. But I understand that's how people here want to see things. There is no single media entity. There are pundits who will always look for negative stuff, and there are those who will always paint a rosy picture. Has Jim Dalrymple ever found a single thing wrong with iPhones? It all balances out.

post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

Pogue didn't write 'light on hardware advancements'. 

 

TRUE.

 

I'd say his review was far more enthusiastic than AI's summary suggests. He makes a lot of the same points about fickle analysts and the burden of innovation in a Post-Jobs world that Apple's biggest fans often make. And he has absolutely nothing negative to say about either phone...not even about the 5c's pricing.

 
On iPhone 5c:
 

Actually, “plastic” isn’t quite fair. The 5C’s case is polycarbonate, lacquered like a glossy piano. Better yet, its back edges are curved for the first time since the iPhones of 2008. You can tell by touch which way it’s facing in your pocket.

It’s a terrific phone. The price is right. It will sell like hot cakes; the new iPhones go on sale Friday. But just sheathing last year’s phone in shiny plastic isn’t a stunning advance.

 

No, it's not a stunning advance, which is fair to say. But that's still a pretty positive spin on a phone so many were itching to dismiss just  eight days ago.

 

On A7 and M7:
 

Apple says the 5S’s chip is twice as fast as before. Nobody was exactly complaining about the iPhone’s speed before, but, sure, it’s plenty quick. Since it’s a 64-bit chip, Apple says the graphics in 3-D video games look especially smooth and detailed.

There’s also a second chip devoted to tracking motion data from the phone’s compass, gyroscope and tilt sensor. Apple says this coprocessor should save battery life..

Those are both fairly invisible changes, though.

 

As though invisible were a bad thing. Funny. Here he seems to be attempting to downplay the significance of the most important hardware upgrade in recent mobile tech history. But although he's acting bored he is at least giving Apple the benefit of the doubt with regard to their speed and battery life claims.

 

On the Camera:
 Take photos side-by-side with the iPhone 5S’s predecessor, and the difference is immediately obvious; lowlight pictures are far better on the new phone. Clearer, brighter, better color.

 

He didn't even rise to the easy, "it's still only 8MP" argument bait. Nice.

 

Pogue goes on to praise the new dual-flash, iOS 7, the phone's sound quality ("excellent"), improved Siri, and clearly he loves the fingerprint reader technology - not just in theory but in execution:

 
On Touch ID:
 The best part is that it actually works — every single time, in my tests. It’s nothing like the balky, infuriating fingerprint-reader efforts of earlier cellphones. It’s genuinely awesome; the haters can go jump off a pier.

 

He sums it all up by saying the iPhone 5s isn't the only great phone out there, and he stops short of calling it the best. But he includes this little gem:

 

Quote:
 Apple still believes in superb design and tremendous polish.

 

I'd call that an extremely positive review, even if it is framed within an argument about the smartphone market as a whole and not fully devoted to simply reviewing the phone.

post #90 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

The left-most one is way too bright. Who wants to be out for a walk in the evening, decide they want to make a call, and have that bright white screen blasting into their eyes. Dreadful! Was anyone at Apple thinking or were they just being 'artistic.'
 

Ummm... I think that the one on the left is showing the fingerprint "set up" step, which you most likely do only once.  And that "once" is most likely to occur indoors in a well-lit room, not too long after you take the iPhone out of the box and activate it.

 

When you are out at night wanting to make a call, I think you have your "lock screen" picture up and something prompting you to touch your home button.

post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Most of the other benchmarks also show significant improvements (keep in mind that the clock speed and number of cores are unchanged). Clearly, 64 bit offers significant advantages - even though the RAM is well below the 4 GB limit. Anand's article provides a ton of benchmark data - and it's pretty clear that nothing else comes close (although Intel's new Atom is within shooting distance - if you could find a phone which used it).

 

Most of the architectural advances in ARMv8 are bundled with the new A64 instruction set, so a program must be recompiled for 64 bit to take advantage of them. To speak of 64-bit ARM is to speak of the other improvements as well; there's no separating the two. For example the new AES instructions (witness the 800% improvement in Anandtech's AES benchmark scores) are only available to A64 builds.

 
In the x86 world, advances in CPU technology seem to occur more independently of the register width. For instance, Intel's AES instructions are accessible to both 32 and 64 bit binaries (see http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/download-the-intel-aesni-sample-library). A 32 bit program running on a Core i7 will smoke a 64 bit program running on a Core 2. It is a mistake to extrapolate x86's development history to ARM's.

Edited by d4NjvRzf - 9/18/13 at 9:27am
post #92 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Touché.

The silver lining in being somewhat underwhelmed is that they did not introduce an iWatch, which just sounds like a disaster coming if true. I truly hope it was a leaked rumor based on actual research Apple was conducting but abandoned, forcing Samsung to spend valuable resources in a vain attempt to beat Apple to the punch for once.

Honestly, I really would have liked to see a larger-screened iPhone, not because I want one, but because there are many customers out there who want them. And I wanted to see Apple offer one as an option and show Samsung how do it right.

I mean we've been waiting 11 months for something exciting and this is what Apple offers?

Maybe there is no right way yet. Apple won't release hardware in beta.
post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

 

Most of the architectural advances in ARMv8 are bundled with the new A64 instruction set, so a program must be recompiled for 64 bit to take advantage of them. To speak of 64-bit ARM is to speak of the other improvements as well; there's no separating the two. For example the new AES instructions (witness the 800% improvement in Anandtech's AES benchmark scores) are only available to A64 builds.

 
In the x86 world, advances in CPU technology seem to occur more independently of the register width. For instance, Intel's AES instructions are accessible to both 32 and 64 bit binaries (see http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/download-the-intel-aesni-sample-library). A 32 bit program running on a Core i7 will smoke a 64 bit program running on a Core 2. It is a mistake to extrapolate x86's development history to ARM's.

 

All good points.

post #94 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerTenor View Post
 

 

TRUE.

 

I'd say his review was far more enthusiastic than AI's summary suggests. He makes a lot of the same points about fickle analysts and the burden of innovation in a Post-Jobs world that Apple's biggest fans often make. And he has absolutely nothing negative to say about either phone...not even about the 5c's pricing.

 

 

No, it's not a stunning advance, which is fair to say. But that's still a pretty positive spin on a phone so many were itching to dismiss just  eight days ago.

 

 

As though invisible were a bad thing. Funny. Here he seems to be attempting to downplay the significance of the most important hardware upgrade in recent mobile tech history. But although he's acting bored he is at least giving Apple the benefit of the doubt with regard to their speed and battery life claims.

 

 

He didn't even rise to the easy, "it's still only 8MP" argument bait. Nice.

 

Pogue goes on to praise the new dual-flash, iOS 7, the phone's sound quality ("excellent"), improved Siri, and clearly he loves the fingerprint reader technology - not just in theory but in execution:

 
 

 

He sums it all up by saying the iPhone 5s isn't the only great phone out there, and he stops short of calling it the best. But he includes this little gem:

 

 

I'd call that an extremely positive review, even if it is framed within an argument about the smartphone market as a whole and not fully devoted to simply reviewing the phone.

 

The only thing that irked me about Pogue's review was the repetition of "Apple says". It almost sounded like he was mocking them. But Pogue has been an enthusiastic near-fanboy in the past and likely hasn't deviated too far. Lest we forget, he makes a living writing guidebooks for Mac OS and iOS.

post #95 of 109
I'm very curious to know why the 5C display seems to be better than that on the 5S?
post #96 of 109
Anyone that automatically calls something made of plastic cheap is emotionally troubled in my mind. Sure cheap things can be made of plastic but there is a whole world of not so cheap items out there. All one has to do is go to a local hardware store and pick up a Milwaukee, Hitachi or whatever electric drill and realist that plastics have their place.

Saying you don't like the feel of plastic is another thing. Everyone has their preferences in this regard, but lets be honest there is more to feel than the material, people should try it first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerTenor View Post

I absolutely LOVE how everyone seems to be surprised by and praising - of all things - the 5c *build quality*.

Even though it's secretly a craptastic, cheap plastic, race-to-the-bottom, C-stands-for-Cheap, super high margin, C-stands-for-Con designed for Sheeple, racially-stereotyped/color-crazed Chinese hipsters and preteen girls who prefer shiny colors over quality. /s

Guess maybe assuming plastic means low quality was jumping the gun just a little...?

How about jumping the gun a lot? People seem to forget that the original iPhone had plastic backs. Further plastic has real advantages in that they can be RF transparent and far less likely to distort the RF signal.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

I'm very curious to know why the 5C display seems to be better than that on the 5S?

 

Luck of the draw. It's the same display, but Apple's sourcing it from 3 different companies or so. There will be small variations in display performance from an individual companies line too, as well as variation among the different companies. Apple likely has a set of performance criteria for accepting a display or failing it. Inevitably, someone will get one that passed, but it was on the ragged edge.

post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Most of the architectural advances in ARMv8 are bundled with the new A64 instruction set, so a program must be recompiled for 64 bit to take advantage of them. To speak of 64-bit ARM is to speak of the other improvements as well; there's no separating the two. For example the new AES instructions (witness the 800% improvement in Anandtech's AES benchmark scores) are only available to A64 builds.
 
Actually I don't think A32 has any instruction codes left over. Even if they do, the transition to 64 bit will be rather quick, as such dwelling on the past isn't recommended. Or to put it in other words, the 32 bit architecture is effectively dead for cell phones and tablets. It will take time to fad away but I doubt Apple will be selling any 32 bit tablets or cell phones in two years.
Quote:
In the x86 world, advances in CPU technology seem to occur more independently of the register width. For instance, Intel's AES instructions are accessible to both 32 and 64 bit binaries (see http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/download-the-intel-aesni-sample-library).
Intel uses a variable length instruction, given enough bits it can add any sort of functionality it wants to the 32 or 64 bit architectures.
Quote:
A 32 bit program running on a Core i7 will smoke a 64 bit program running on a Core 2. It is a mistake to extrapolate x86's development history to ARM's.
That is senseless because modern day ARM processors smoke the old ARM designs of five years ago. In the same way current i7 64 bit processors will smoke earlier intel chips running 64 bit programs.
post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Touché.

The silver lining in being somewhat underwhelmed is that they did not introduce an iWatch, which just sounds like a disaster coming if true. I truly hope it was a leaked rumor based on actual research Apple was conducting but abandoned, forcing Samsung to spend valuable resources in a vain attempt to beat Apple to the punch for once.

Honestly, I really would have liked to see a larger-screened iPhone, not because I want one, but because there are many customers out there who want them. And I wanted to see Apple offer one as an option and show Samsung how do it right.

I mean we've been waiting 11 months for something exciting and this is what Apple offers?

Seriously dude if you don't find iPhone 5S exciting and very interesting; you either have trouble grasping the technology in the device or are simply trolling. It may not be the phone for everybody but it is a major technology advancement.
post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Most of the other benchmarks also show significant improvements (keep in mind that the clock speed and number of cores are unchanged). Clearly, 64 bit offers significant advantages - even though the RAM is well below the 4 GB limit. Anand's article provides a ton of benchmark data - and it's pretty clear that nothing else comes close (although Intel's new Atom is within shooting distance - if you could find a phone which used it).

I'm really wondering how Intels new ATOM competes on a watt versus watt basis. Due to the increased battery life and the fact that the chip (A7) is in a cell phone not a tablet I'm not convinced that Intel even comes close. I'm thinking Apple is likely still at the two watt level or there about maxed out.
post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Gotta say, I'm pretty underwhelmed by this announcement. The leaks have gotten so bad that there's very little surprise left at Apple's unveils these days. I kept waiting for the "and just one more thing", but there was none.
Come on let's get real here, did you honestly already knew for certain that A7 was 64 bits and that the M7 was to be integrated into the phone? Not to mention the stiff GPU improvements.
Quote:
The 5S is a much more impressive offering than the 4S.
This is true, but why are you underwhelmed? You are posting thoughts that directly conflict with one and another
Quote:
They could have called this one a 6. The 64-bit processor alone makes the phone a standout.
So be honest you aren't underwhelmed are you?
Quote:
The camera upgrades are to be expected, as well as speed bumps. The fingerprint technology is still a bit gimmicky, especially if it doesn't work flawlessly for the majority of customers, mainly because there are no proposed applications for it outside of securing the phone,
You can't really say that until you use the machine. Besides one mans gimmick is another's must have feature.
Quote:
in the way Passport was touted (perhaps they learned their lesson over that debacle).
What debacle, Passport has been rather successful.
Quote:
That said, 4S customers must be squealing with delight. As a 5 customer, I'm not sure I would pay the early upgrade fee for it.
Of purse not, there is no rational reason to upgrade every year just because. You upgrade when your hardware gets slow or when new features you need arrive. I never understood the upgrade every year mentality.
Quote:
The 5c is really disappointing. Basically the 5 in a less attractive case for basically the same price as it would have been had Apple continued their previous depreciation model. The big selling point seems to be the colored shell, which most people are going to cover in a case anyway.
The big selling point is that it is last years technology at a lower price, the same way it has always been with Apple iPhones.
Quote:
And that's it? The big innovation was an expected upgrade of features on their flagship iPhone, plus the addition of gold, and repackaging the 5 in cheaper candy colored housing, falling back on an over a decade old, played-out marketing strategy. And half the new features were already announced months ago with the preview of iOS 7.
If you don't see innovation in the iPhone 5S you are blind. Seriously sit down a minute and look at the products and their releases as if you where someone that didn't live in the rumors forums. Without the priming of the leaks you would be amazed by the iPhone 5S.
Quote:
Understandable the stock dropped.

Yeah that will last until the end of next quarter when Apple turns in the best Shopping season results ever.
post #102 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

I'm very curious to know why the 5C display seems to be better than that on the 5S?

You should read the review from Anand:


I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #103 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


Who 's got the chip? 

 

Apple got the chip, the 64bit chip, ain't nobody can touch dat.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Apple got the chip, the 64bit chip, ain't nobody can touch dat.

 

all the droid fan people are saying, so what, no big deal, it's coming soon to android too, ain't that hard to do, no problem, etc. etc. ...

 

it will be very interesting to see what actually happens, and when.

 

same goes for the Touch ID fingerprint sensor. you KNOW that as of today every major OEM in the world is in a total panic to get one of their own ASAP - it's the 5s' "killer" feature. sales of high end Android phones are going to plummet until they catch up.

 

it will be very interesting to see if they actually work as well.

post #105 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post
 

 

all the droid fan people are saying, so what, no big deal, it's coming soon to android too, ain't that hard to do, no problem, etc. etc. ...

 

it will be very interesting to see what actually happens, and when.

 

same goes for the Touch ID fingerprint sensor. you KNOW that as of today every major OEM in the world is in a total panic to get one of their own ASAP - it's the 5s' "killer" feature. sales of high end Android phones are going to plummet until they catch up.

 

it will be very interesting to see if they actually work as well.

 

...and whether Samsung's attempts to mimic the round sensor will throw them back into infringing Apple's design patents territory.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #106 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

...and whether Samsung's attempts to mimic the round sensor will throw them back into infringing Apple's design patents territory.

C'mon, Apple now wants to patent circles? /s
post #107 of 109

Maybe someone has already made a comment on it, but it seems like there are usually more speculation reports on stock levels, on the 5c it now shows 3-5 day shipping versus delivery on 9/20. It also seemed to show that the unlocked versions sold out first ,or maybe they just had less inventory. It seems like that would raises apples stock price as well and curb fears that the 5C wasn't selling.

post #108 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

...and whether Samsung's attempts to mimic the round sensor will throw them back into infringing Apple's design patents territory.

 

of course SS will almost duplicate the Apple design verbatim ASAP. they figure any patent lawsuit will take years, and by then it won't matter anyway - they'll finally have their own design ready.

 

that's how they do business.

post #109 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

Strictly speaking, accountants do the write-downs :)

 

I know that, and you know that, but it didn't work with the joke so I modified it more than a Samsung Inventory Shipping Officer modifies his figures...

 

;)

Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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  • Review roundup: iPhone 5s with iOS 7 best smartphone available, 5c offers well-built alternative
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