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Apple CEO Tim Cook on cheap smartphones: 'We're not in the junk business' - Page 4

post #121 of 208

I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

 

If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

post #122 of 208
Ha ha! Good on Tim! What a clear, simple statement. How great is that?
post #123 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post
 

I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

 

If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

 

is this a joke post?

 

Nokia sold 30,000,000 phones and LOST money.  That's the strategy Apple should follow?

 

Also Nokia pays zero for R&D, retail stores, customer service, OS development, and OS updates.

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post #124 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

Worse resolution and this " the only delays we did experience were when opening the camera or third-party apps" from pcadvisor.com.

Oh and how much $$$ is Nokia making on it.
post #125 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
 

Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

 

Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

 

Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

 

There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.

 

Now there is this huge misconception amongst Apple critics. Apple is not Samsung, it doesn't need to sell the most products, at the lowest price. They make the best hardware, the best software,  and people who buy them do so for the quality. Are you honestly suggesting no one will buy Samsung phones once Apple introduces a larger screen? Until they've perfected that experience, I don't think they'll release it. 

Samsung isn't even close to Apple in terms of ecosystem, integration and quality. If the 100-200 price difference matters that much, those customers aren't worth it to begin with. Apple needs customers who actually buys apps, who actually uses the device. I've seen people buy S4s only to use them on a data free pre-paid plan. Tim Cook's right, Apple doesn't need the 50% of junk customers who'll use their phones no different from feature phones. For those people, there's Samsung.

 

And to add on, the criticisms seem, to me, like they're coming from people who aspire to own Apple branded products, but are too price conscious to buy one. Since they're low value customers to begin with, why bother? Apple can easily dump 3gs models on the whole African subcontinent, but where's the value in that? #Flawgic

post #126 of 208
Why would Apple cheapen their image? That's like asking BMW to make a Civic-like car with a BMW logo.
post #127 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

is this a joke post?

 

Nokia sold 30,000,000 phones and LOST money.  That's the strategy Apple should follow?

 

Also Nokia pays zero for R&D, retail stores, customer service, OS development, and OS updates.

 

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

 

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

post #128 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What I'm trying to say is that iOS and Apples stewardship of the platform is certainly worth a little extra Apple "tax". So better margins than the industry standard is good. However so good that you start to look greedy isn't so good.

 

I completely disagree that there is an "Apple Tax".  A tax is a fee that adds no value.  My iPhone 5 and 2011 MacBook Air  were worth every penny I paid for them. In the case of the MBA, I think it was actually worth more than I paid for it. The value isn't just in the hardware, it is also in the software, which is often upgraded for free or at a very marginal cost.   

Want some proof?  I open and close my laptop at least 5 times per day.  If I save 30 seconds because of better software, that's 2.5 minutes/day or 15 hours per year. I bill $300/hr, which means I've already saved $9,000 of time.
 
What we really ought to be discussing is the "Microsoft Tax".  Microsoft's shitty software has caused me so much grief, stress, and lost time I will avoid using a Microsoft PC as long as I live.  The aversion is deeply encoded in my neural circuitry from past experience.  It's like when you vomit a certain food and don't like eating it anymore. 
post #129 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



Greedy is a perspective one holds on somebody else's behavior. You can't call another wrong because his opinion differs with yours.

Seriously? Your point is correct if the argument is academic but in the real world with in publications, tech blogs even here with Apple users the word "Greedy" is an accepted verb for Apple and has been for YEAR'S.

 

Quote:
Baloney. The competition got wiped out by iPhone, until iPhone many of these companies where very profitable. As it is Samsung is the only company effectively competing (stealing from) with Apple and they have good margins. The likes of Nokia, RIM and Motorola did not race to the bottom at all, rather they had the rug pulled out from beneath them and landed flat on their faces.

You are arguing pre iPhone and post iPhone together. 

 

Prior to iPhone I believe there was collusion with in the cell phone industry (just my opinion) so profits stood strong. However after the launch of iPhone the industry was no longer clamshells, candy bar and "Black Berry" type phones they were forced to offer truly smart phones with touchscreen. Up to that point there were just a few that had tried to offer this but failed to gain traction (Palm and Windows CS to name a couple). So your right they were not pre paired, but to gain traction on Apples market share (A market they did not create but rather redefined) they absolutely raced to the bottom to get a piece of the low end of the market and still failed. 

 

Nobody is asking Apple to make junk, I'm not sure where this idea comes from. The point here is that Apple doesn't benefit t in the long term from excessively high margins.

The industry is absolutely asking for Apple to make junk, in fact that demand it and predict Apple will lose their market share and go bankrupt (I know that was a little dramatic).

 

And since when is it so bad for a company to make high profit margins? I have never understood why that is so bad. You make a product that is far superior to the rest of the industry with fit, polish and quality (I disagree with you and for their time the org iPhone, 3G and 3Gs were amazing, thats why everybody wanted one). You decide what you think your time and you product is worth send it to market. It DOSE NOT MATTER what you spend to produce it, if consumers feel that their investment is worth the value they will purchase your product. If they disagree with your MSRP your product will not sell plain and simple.

 

As far as long term viability, hmmmmm when was the first iPhone released? Who is the most successful and profitable tech company on the planet to date largely from their media players and phones?

 

I tend to think Apple probably got this figured out and I will trust their road map a little better than a poster that thinks he smarter than them.

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post #130 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post
 

 

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

 

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

 

*sigh*

 
Selling lots of product != making profits.
 
Apple COULD make a "cheap" phone.  This would go against their entire philosophy as a corporation, though.  It would also seriously harm their stock price.  And it would, finally, tarnish their brand.
 
It's like saying, MG Collection can sell purses for <$20, why can't Coach?  Croft and Barrow can sell shoes for <$40, why can't Louboutin or Manolo Blahnik?
 
Believe me: If Coach wanted to sell something for $15, they could.  They just never WOULD.
 
Same with Apple.
post #131 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post
 

 

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

 

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

 

Nokia is on the BRINK of BANKRUPTCY. 

They sell 20,000,000 phones but still can't make profits.

They were willing to be bought out by Microsoft so they survive.

 

And you want Apple to copy their STRATEGY!!!

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post #132 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by muadibe View Post

"High margins should be reserved for flagship models. "

The problem with that is the flagship model will contain higher cost components, thus offer lower margins if they want to stick with their current price points.

Only initially, then the prices start to drop and margins rise.
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post #133 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post
 

 

I completely disagree that there is an "Apple Tax".  A tax is a fee that adds no value.  My iPhone 5 and 2011 MacBook Air  were worth every penny I paid for them. In the case of the MBA, I think it was actually worth more than I paid for it. The value isn't just in the hardware, it is also in the software, which is often upgraded for free or at a very marginal cost.   

Want some proof?  I open and close my laptop at least 5 times per day.  If I save 30 seconds because of better software, that's 2.5 minutes/day or 15 hours per year. I bill $300/hr, which means I've already saved $9,000 of time.
 
What we really ought to be discussing is the "Microsoft Tax".  Microsoft's shitty software has caused me so much grief, stress, and lost time I will avoid using a Microsoft PC as long as I live.  The aversion is deeply encoded in my neural circuitry from past experience.  It's like when you vomit a certain food and don't like eating it anymore. 

 

wow.  Post of the day.

 

Time is money.  And for many Apple consumers our time is VERY VALUABLE.

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post #134 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post
 

 

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

 

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

 

I think what you are saying is Apple could make a cheap iPhone that isn't junk and still make a profit.  Tim's statement assumes that making a cheap phone requires making junk.  You seem to be questioning that.  Tough call.  You may be right.  

The culture at Apple is to just attack the high end of the market.  If Apple tried to make a cheap iPhone, they might be able to do it.  Apple said they couldn't make a netbook that wasn't junk, but then they came out with the iPad and killed the netbook market.  

As an Apple shareholder, I hope Tim Cook is trying find a way to address the lower market segment.  There may come a day when that is the vast majority of the market.  

I think there is still time before the high end market peaks or craters.  Selling a $550 phone in 2014 probably makes the most sense (to test the waters).  


Edited by ash471 - 9/19/13 at 11:23am
post #135 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post
 

 

I think what you are saying is Apple could make a cheap iPhone that isn't junk and still make a profit.  Tim's statement assumes that making a cheap phone requires making junk.  You seem to be questioning that.  Tough call.  You may be right.  

The culture at Apple is to just attack the high end of the market.  If Apple tried to make a cheap iPhone, they might be able to do it.  Apple said they couldn't make a netbook that wasn't junk, but then they came out with the iPad and killed the netbook market.  

As an Apple shareholder, I hope Tim Cook is trying find a way to address the lower market segment.  There may come a day when that is the vast majority of the market.  

I think there is still time before the high end market peaks or craters.  Selling a $550 phone in 2014 probably makes the most sense (to test the waters).  

 

No.  The high end is growing.  Look at China.  It is estimated that by 2020 over 500,000,000 Chinese will be in the upper-middle class with $30k-$40k incomes that can afford iPhones. 

 

Thats 5x the size of American's middle class.  The growth in the upper-middle class in China massive.

 

 

 

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post #136 of 208

Just for the record, with all this talk of "Apple Tax" and the cost of phones, etc. ...

 

I am selling my iPhone5 to Gazelle for a price of $330.  It's 32GB.  So, I'm actually getting MORE from Gazelle than I originally paid for it.  Between getting the $330 from Gazelle, and the $36 "fine" I need to pay ATT to upgrade, I can get a 64GB iPhone5S for $105.

 

People can talk about "Apple Tax" all they want.  But the resale value is amazing.  I got something like $550 for my mid-2009 iMac when I upgraded last winter, and that machine was 4 years old!

 

As long as I keep getting amazing resale values, I will take their "Apple Tax" any day of the week.

post #137 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Had Apple charged $50 less their margins would likely have been the same as the iPhone 5.

I'm not suggesting that Apple should hit junk pile pricing but increasing already incredibly high margins makes sense in the short term only.

Actually high margins will make it possible to do incredible advertising to build and maintain brand identity. That's smart in the long term.

Low price will create a short term market, but not build a day's worth of customer loyalty. The best example would be the PC market. Nearly all brands are treated like commodity brands, the companies' margins are razor thin and their customers will jump to the next brand for a dime less price. In that cat fight for sales Apple is doing very well with their MBA running under Windows. Why should that be, when other brands cost less? Top customer service due to Apple having the margins to take care of the customers and the guts to not get into the price war.
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post #138 of 208

Yeah Wall Street!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

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post #139 of 208

I'm a Ford stockholder too, and I don't consider the Fiesta "junk."  And by the way, my Ford is up more than my Apple stock.

 

You will not find the Ford CEO calling a competitor's product junk.

post #140 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

Nokia just got bought.

Take out the camera? Are you serious? So basically you want to bastardize the iPhone just for market share.
post #141 of 208
Apples right about producing 'quality'
post #142 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicAustin View Post
 

I'm a Ford stockholder too, and I don't consider the Fiesta "junk."  And by the way, my Ford is up more than my Apple stock.

 

You will not find the Ford CEO calling a competitor's product junk.

 

There's a difference between automobiles and computers, however.  As I said earlier, Apple shouldn't become a seller of commodity products.

post #143 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

I've spent time with the Gaxlaxy S4 and Note2 and both feel so cheap in my hands.  They feel like $200 phones.  IMO the $200 Nokia has better build quality then both of those Samsung flagships.

 

That's your opinion and, of course, you are welcome to it.

 
That doesn't make it the truth, though.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #144 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

Think for a moment, THINK. Apple is selling every single iPhone the factory can make... in fact even selling more iPhones than the factory can make, and doing it at a good margin. And you want them to take part of that profitable manufacturing capacity and debase the Apple brand making a defeatured lower profit phone to address a budget market where the buyer traditionally has no sense of quality or product loyalty??? Why in God's name should Apple do that??

If you haven't heard yet, Nokia may have been afloat but Microsoft threw them a lifeline. They were selling off assets to stay afloat this long. Essentially Nokia's smartphone business was terrible as they were known for making defeatured phones and other low-end phones. There was no high-end brand identity, they had little profits to advertise and market their products, Microsoft had been funding the Nokia smartphone business and still wasn't getting any traction.


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post #145 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicAustin View Post
 

I'm a Ford stockholder too, and I don't consider the Fiesta "junk."  And by the way, my Ford is up more than my Apple stock.

 

You will not find the Ford CEO calling a competitor's product junk.

 

Not sure where you're going with this...  Surely you're not suggesting Ford is the Apple of the auto industry.

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post #146 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

If people are rich enough to buy a second phone (for what purpose exactly?) why make it cheap?
Quote:
If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

Then you'll never will understand Apple.
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post #147 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

There's a difference between automobiles and computers, however.  As I said earlier, Apple shouldn't become a seller of commodity products.

 

Huh? We're talking about a company's image. Ford was selling junk in the 70s and 80s. Ford's image got tarnished. The build quality has improved vastly over the last 20 years. The image has greatly improved. Ford still builds affordable vehicles and not so affordable vehicles (so does Mercedes). I believe Apple could do the same thing... and I'm not talking $99 off contract. Hell, $350-$400 is a very reasonable expectation and still get a quality phone with decent margins.

 

Depending on how the fiscal 1st and 2nd quarters add up, Apple may or may not change its strategy.

Hmmmmmm...
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post #148 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Huh? We're talking about a company's image. Ford was selling junk in the 70s and 80s. Ford's image got tarnished. The build quality has improved vastly over the last 20 years. The image has greatly improved. Ford still builds affordable vehicles and not so affordable vehicles (so does Mercedes). I believe Apple could do the same thing... and I'm not talking $99 off contract. Hell, $350-$400 is a very reasonable expectation and still get a quality phone with decent margins.

 

Depending on how the fiscal 1st and 2nd quarters add up, Apple may or may not change its strategy.

 

Ford is Ford.  Believe me, I live in (near) Detroit.  I'm about as familiar with Ford as anyone.

 
Let me ask you this: Do you think Apple will have a problem selling the iPhone5C?  Because if not, then why in the world would they sell something cheaper?
 
When Apple made a partnership with a fashion house, they did so with Burberry.  That should give you some idea where their thinking is.  They didn't partner with GAP or Target (not that there's anything wrong with either -- heck, major designers design clothes for both).  But Burberry is upper-tier.  I mean, the next time you want a calfskin trench coat for your wife/girlfriend, you can get a Burberry one for $13,000.  Or a python-skin skirt for $6000.
 
There's a REASON Apple sidled up with Burberry: Image.  And of course, the same goes for Burberry.  It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. Burberry represents a classic, upper-class British style that will always remain in style.  Apple represents the top of the food chain when it comes not only to electronics, but to an image in the technology world.  That glowing Apple symbol on the back of a MacBook Pro MEANS something -- at least to people who understand the fashion of it all.
 
Apple racing toward the bottom, even in the modest terms you propose, makes no sense.  And, as I said, they will sell the 5C as quickly as they can make them.  Why make something cheaper?
post #149 of 208
I like how he described it as "Junk business." Lol, perfect line.
post #150 of 208
Tim, there sure is room for a sub 500$ 3,5" iPhone mini?

Here's what I think Apple should do to cater 95% of the people:

1. iPhone, 4" screen
2. iPhone mini, 3,5" screen

3. iPod = iPod touch, 4" screen
4. iPod mini, 3,5" screen

5. iPod nano = iWatch
6. iPod shuffle

7. iPad, 9,7" screen
8. iPad mini, 7,9" screen
post #151 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

Ford is Ford.  Believe me, I live in (near) Detroit.  I'm about as familiar with Ford as anyone.

 
Let me ask you this: Do you think Apple will have a problem selling the iPhone5C?  Because if not, then why in the world would they sell something cheaper?
 
When Apple made a partnership with a fashion house, they did so with Burberry.  That should give you some idea where their thinking is.  They didn't partner with GAP or Target (not that there's anything wrong with either -- heck, major designers design clothes for both).  But Burberry is upper-tier.  I mean, the next time you want a calfskin trench coat for your wife/girlfriend, you can get a Burberry one for $13,000.  Or a python-skin skirt for $6000.
 
There's a REASON Apple sidled up with Burberry: Image.  And of course, the same goes for Burberry.  It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. Burberry represents a classic, upper-class British style that will always remain in style.  Apple represents the top of the food chain when it comes not only to electronics, but to an image in the technology world.  That glowing Apple symbol on the back of a MacBook Pro MEANS something -- at least to people who understand the fashion of it all.
 
Apple racing toward the bottom, even in the modest terms you propose, makes no sense.  And, as I said, they will sell the 5C as quickly as they can make them.  Why make something cheaper?

 

You must have read some other post because you sure as hell didn't read mine.

Hmmmmmm...
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post #152 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Tim, there sure is room for a sub 500$ 3,5" iPhone mini?

Here's what I think Apple should do to cater 95% of the people:

1. iPhone, 4" screen
2. iPhone mini, 3,5" screen

3. iPod = iPod touch, 4" screen
4. iPod mini, 3,5" screen

5. iPod nano = iWatch
6. iPod shuffle

7. iPad, 9,7" screen
8. iPad mini, 7,9" screen

 

No.

 
Damage the stock, damage the brand.  What does Apple gain from this?
post #153 of 208

Perhaps some readers have missed my subtlety.  Apple is pursuing the correct strategy.  But a flippant "we don't make junk" in a broad sweep reference to everyone else who isn't us or doesn't talk like us and look like us, is just flat wrong for the CEO of the company right up near the largest market cap on the planet.

 

And here's one tiny part of why it particularly irks me.  I was COO of a third of a billion trust company, and I ran that financial institution on all Macs, except for one PC to run a bank-provided secure online connection for funds transfer.  This included all databases, all transactions, all content creation (which was largely print in those days), all tax form generation, all online customer support.  All.  Macs.  Conventional wisdom at the time was that it could never be done.  I believe at that time Apple was using Windows in its own accounting department.

 

Area Apple reps could not be bothered to stop by and see what we were doing.  I'm convinced it's because we were commercial and not graphics arts or advertising or any other "soft" business.  I say soft because these other businesses can be off a penny or so and it doesn't matter.  Apple developed and to this day holds an "attitude" about business use.  The parties of the original big brother theme ad have pretty much flipped 180 degrees in the Apple sub-culture.  Try saying something on one of these boards contrary to the Party Line and see what happens.

 

In recent releases, Apple has stopped bothering to keep Open Directory working as a viable alternative to Active Directory in OS  X Server.  This without any regard to the courageous IT pros who might have risked career and money to advance Apple into the depths of the corporation, and undercut Microsoft where it gets a large revenue at $200 per seat just for single sign on.  No warning, no acknowledgement, no regrets, no "we're working on it" because they're not.

 

I call it flippant arrogance.  Trash talking it can afford because Microsoft is still there to keep its suppliers working.  Adolescent.  Not the Tim Cook I respect and admire.  More like the Android fans commenting on this site than a CEO of a half trillion dollar company.

 

That's my point.  Show some class.

post #154 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

You must have read some other post because you sure as hell didn't read mine.

 

"

Hell, $350-$400 is a very reasonable expectation and still get a quality phone with decent margins.

"

 
Explain to me what benefit this would be to Apple, please.
post #155 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

"

Hell, $350-$400 is a very reasonable expectation and still get a quality phone with decent margins.

"

 
Explain to me what benefit this would be to Apple, please.

 

Well, that comment on its own...: it would mean that Apple has the ability to build a lower cost phone with high quality that would gain even more customers without a massive hit to its margins.

 
... but that comment coupled with the qualifying comment in the last paragraph:
 
"Depending on how the fiscal 1st and 2nd quarters add up, Apple may or may not change its strategy."

 

... would mean that if Apple's current strategy (inserting the 5C into the mid tier) doesn't pan out then there is still an opportunity to build a lower priced model without "racing to the bottom", as you put it.

 

You seem to have missed the majority of what I said in my post.  (ie. I didn't just include Ford as an example)

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post #156 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicAustin View Post
 

Perhaps some readers have missed my subtlety.  Apple is pursuing the correct strategy.  But a flippant "we don't make junk" in a broad sweep reference to everyone else who isn't us or doesn't talk like us and look like us, is just flat wrong for the CEO of the company right up near the largest market cap on the planet.

 

What?!  Where did you come up with all of that?  He simply said they don't make junk.  And he's right!

"History will reduce the Apple Watch—if it ever reaches the shop floor—
to a footnote in the annals of technology."

-Benjamin Frost

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"History will reduce the Apple Watch—if it ever reaches the shop floor—
to a footnote in the annals of technology."

-Benjamin Frost

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post #157 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Huh? We're talking about a company's image. Ford was selling junk in the 70s and 80s. Ford's image got tarnished. The build quality has improved vastly over the last 20 years. The image has greatly improved. Ford still builds affordable vehicles and not so affordable vehicles (so does Mercedes). I believe Apple could do the same thing... and I'm not talking $99 off contract. Hell, $350-$400 is a very reasonable expectation and still get a quality phone with decent margins.

Depending on how the fiscal 1st and 2nd quarters add up, Apple may or may not change its strategy.

How would they do that? Use crappy components? Not only will that not work but it will eat away at the flagship model faster and faster and thus lowering the avg margins and thus lowering profits.
post #158 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


How would they do that? Use crappy components? Not only will that not work but it will eat away at the flagship model faster and faster and thus lowering the avg margins and thus lowering profits.

 

At $350 to $400 per phone... and Apple couldn't do it at those prices when others are selling phones for $99.

 

Get off it man. You're not making sense.

 

What you are saying is that the 5C will eat away at the flagship 5S. LOL!

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post #159 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post
 

 

What?!  Where did you come up with all of that?  He simply said they don't make junk.  And he's right!

 

Actually, Tim said:

 
“There’s always a large junk part of the market,” he says. “We’re not in the junk business.”
 
Just to clear that up.
 
Wasn't it Ive that said Apple doesn't make junk... following on Steve's lead.
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post #160 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.
I was wondering when someone would try to compare this to the Apple Computer of the 90's. With how many models of desktop computers they sold, to how many segments with how much fragmentation, and how confusing was it to the die hard fans, let alone the general public? At that time they sold their product at what was considered a completely unreasonable price without enough differentiation to justify the costs. How is this the same now? Any product similar to theirs sells at a very similar price point and for the most part really cannot fully compete at the software level, let alone hardware build quality. A very poor comparison at best.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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