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post #201 of 208

Someone asked who make a $400-500 phone that is equal to the iPhone 5c?

 

My honest answer is no one that I know of this second but the Nokia 925 is about 95% as good and for a LOT of people, it is really better.   IMHO it has a superior OS in terms of navigation at least, superior display, and superior camera then even the 5s.   Apple still deserves an edge if price is a non issue since the iPhone has the better ecosystem even though Windows 8 mobile is really catching up quickly for the apps that most people use.   And the Galaxy S3 deserves consideration as well.  (It has a somewhat different set of advantages/disadvantages)

 

But if you simply asked that same question in 2-3 weeks, the clear answer will be Google/LG with the Nexus 5.  I own Apple and Microsoft stock so I am biased towards both companies but even I have to admit the next Nexus will be a game changer.    The Nexus 5 will probably be priced at $300-$350 and have a super fast quad core processor that compares to iPhone 5s, big battery, 16GB or 32 GB if you spend a bit more, 2GB or 3GB of internal RAM, a great camera with image stabilization that may be better then even the 5s and stock Android 4.4.   And a great 5" display with very thin bezel.  Google will probably have very small margins on this phone and that is why you can get so much for paying so relatively little.

 

I've owned Android phones, iPhones and Windows phones and am taking a mobile graduate school class on developing on all 3 platforms so I know about each of them fairly well.

 

My honest assessment Android manufactures other then Google with their Nexus line suck at supporting their OS in terms of upgrades so if your the type that wants to keep their phone a long time and upgrade the OS 2 or 3 times, avoid all Android manufacturers besides google.  Quite honestly most high end Android phones have OS that most users will like but its still at least a minor black mark that its hard to upgrade unless you are a techie.   

 

Besides my Android phone, I currently own a Nokia 521 which is an amazing value and shows the Windows Mobile 8 OS is absolutely great.   From a purely OS perspective, it really has leap frogged both Android and IOS.    If price is not a consideration, Windows 8 on the desktop is not as good as OS X right now -- I am typing this on a Macbook air but own an HP All in One with Windows 8 -- since it really needs the 8.1 update to fix a few things.    That being said, live tiles work absolutely great on a cell phone.   And unlike cheap Android phones, with Windows Mobile the OS runs smooth as butter on low end hardware like the Nokia 521.

 

The reason no $400-500 phone right now is clearly better then the iPhone 5c is other then Nokia, no manufacturer is really taking that market seriously.   Phones in that price range are usually sold to somewhat gullible people on contract and increase the margins of the telecom companies such as Verizon, At&T etc.

 

Besides Google/Nexus, Nokia/Microsoft is the hope of the industry of bringing the margins on high end phones such as the Samsung S4 and iPhone 5c/5s to more reasonable levels.

 

Google/Nexus really do no advertising so there sales will always be somewhat limited.   And quite frankly not that many people realize how good Windows Mobile actually is so the Nokia midrange phones probably don't sell as well as they should even though sales are increasing through word of mouth.   

 

I've owned an iPhone as well and still have an iPod touch.   If the 5c was priced at $450, I would have bought one but now I'm either going to get a Nokia 925 used, perhaps used iPhone 5 or Nexus 5 when it comes out.    

 

(Not all of the Nokia phones are executed as well as they should but I've owned the 521 and its ridiculously impressive for the price and looked at the 925 enough to know that is very well executed as well).

post #202 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcinvest View Post
 

Someone asked who make a $400-500 phone that is equal to the iPhone 5c?

 

My honest answer is no one that I know of this second but the Nokia 925 is about 95% as good and for a LOT of people, it is really better.   IMHO it has a superior OS in terms of navigation at least, superior display, and superior camera then even the 5s.   Apple still deserves an edge if price is a non issue since the iPhone has the better ecosystem even though Windows 8 mobile is really catching up quickly for the apps that most people use.   And the Galaxy S3 deserves consideration as well.  (It has a somewhat different set of advantages/disadvantages)

 

But if you simply asked that same question in 2-3 weeks, the clear answer will be Google/LG with the Nexus 5.  I own Apple and Microsoft stock so I am biased towards both companies but even I have to admit the next Nexus will be a game changer.    The Nexus 5 will probably be priced at $300-$350 and have a super fast quad core processor that compares to iPhone 5s, big battery, 16GB or 32 GB if you spend a bit more, 2GB or 3GB of internal RAM, a great camera with image stabilization that may be better then even the 5s and stock Android 4.4.   And a great 5" display with very thin bezel.  Google will probably have very small margins on this phone and that is why you can get so much for paying so relatively little.

 

I've owned Android phones, iPhones and Windows phones and am taking a mobile graduate school class on developing on all 3 platforms so I know about each of them fairly well.

 

My honest assessment Android manufactures other then Google with their Nexus line suck at supporting their OS in terms of upgrades so if your the type that wants to keep their phone a long time and upgrade the OS 2 or 3 times, avoid all Android manufacturers besides google.  Quite honestly most high end Android phones have OS that most users will like but its still at least a minor black mark that its hard to upgrade unless you are a techie.   

 

Besides my Android phone, I currently own a Nokia 521 which is an amazing value and shows the Windows Mobile 8 OS is absolutely great.   From a purely OS perspective, it really has leap frogged both Android and IOS.    If price is not a consideration, Windows 8 on the desktop is not as good as OS X right now -- I am typing this on a Macbook air but own an HP All in One with Windows 8 -- since it really needs the 8.1 update to fix a few things.    That being said, live tiles work absolutely great on a cell phone.   And unlike cheap Android phones, with Windows Mobile the OS runs smooth as butter on low end hardware like the Nokia 521.

 

The reason no $400-500 phone right now is clearly better then the iPhone 5c is other then Nokia, no manufacturer is really taking that market seriously.   Phones in that price range are usually sold to somewhat gullible people on contract and increase the margins of the telecom companies such as Verizon, At&T etc.

 

Besides Google/Nexus, Nokia/Microsoft is the hope of the industry of bringing the margins on high end phones such as the Samsung S4 and iPhone 5c/5s to more reasonable levels.

 

Google/Nexus really do no advertising so there sales will always be somewhat limited.   And quite frankly not that many people realize how good Windows Mobile actually is so the Nokia midrange phones probably don't sell as well as they should even though sales are increasing through word of mouth.   

 

I've owned an iPhone as well and still have an iPod touch.   If the 5c was priced at $450, I would have bought one but now I'm either going to get a Nokia 925 used, perhaps used iPhone 5 or Nexus 5 when it comes out.    

 

(Not all of the Nokia phones are executed as well as they should but I've owned the 521 and its ridiculously impressive for the price and looked at the 925 enough to know that is very well executed as well).

 

The 925 does look really nice.  But I see it selling for about $500.  You can get the 5C right now for $530 at Walmart.  I don't count the Nexus line because Google is selling at cost and no one can expect Apple to sell at cost.

 

In the $500-$550 range the iPhone 5C is the boss.

If it was priced at $400 it would be the deal of the century.

Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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post #203 of 208

"... And so for companies that want to chase that, that’s fine. I’m not criticizing it, actually. I call it junk. I don’t do that in a mean way. It’s just my label for it, right? But it’s just not who we are. I refuse to be driven by a blind ambition of unit share."

Tim Cook, full interview here:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-20/apple-ceo-tim-cooks-complete-interview-with-bloomberg-businessweek#p7

post #204 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

The 925 does look really nice.  But I see it selling for about $500.  You can get the 5C right now for $530 at Walmart.  I don't count the Nexus line because Google is selling at cost and no one can expect Apple to sell at cost.

 

In the $500-$550 range the iPhone 5C is the boss.

If it was priced at $400 it would be the deal of the century.

The 925 does sell for about $500.   It can be had for about $470 via Amazon resellers shipped including with Amazon fulfillment and prime shipping in some cases but I don't know of any actual big named stores that sell it that cheaply.   

 

Given the market dynamics right now in the cell phone industry, excluding the Nexus line, you are absolutely right the iPhone 5c at $400 would be the deal of the century.

 

My argument is the market for mid range to high end sell phones in the US at least is broken since right now there are really only 2 very strong players, Apple and Samsung, selling smart phones.    There may be many players selling Android phones but not enough strong players outside of Samsung and the whole contract model of selling destroys price transparency.   Google is a very strong player but they don't want to upset their partners too much by for example raising the price of the Nexus by lets say $25 and advertising it on TV.... 

 

If HTC/LG/Sony etc. were stronger players in cell phones with better market share, the HTC One and Galaxy 4 would both probably be selling for around $450.   Those models selling for $450 would force even Apple to sell the 5c for $450 and probably lower the price of the 5s to at most $550.

 

It would be interesting to know whether Google is really selling the Nexus 4 at cost.   I've have read on the internet where people speculate this to be the case but I think they are simply selling it at traditionally margins on electronics which are normally small.

 

For example, I suspect due to components and manufacturing that isn't as nice -- no LTE for example --, that the Nexus 4 costs less then the iPHone 5 to manufacturer despite the Nexus have stronger components in some areas.

 

There is no doubt that Google is subsiding Android development and just hoping to make it back on advertising.   I do think if you take the general Android development costs and only allocate a small percentage of those costs to the Nexus line that reflects the Nexus market share of all Android devices, the Nexus 4 phones especially the 16 gb model were profitable.    

post #205 of 208
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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post #206 of 208
Tim and his team are idiots.

First, switching gears from being the smart phone that "everyone" in the world uses to the luxury "phone" that only the rich and old use, is like Honda trying to become Ferrari--why bother? Honda made $3.7 billion dollars last year while Ferrari only made a fraction of that ($714 Million).

Second, your product isn't luxury if that isn't real solid gold or platinum you are holding in your hand--and if you glue a brightly colored plastic case onto the guts of the old iPhone, but ignore advances in technology like increasing the size of windshield so it stretches to the full field of vision the the Honda now offers, then you ain't shipping Ferraris.

Time to sell that Apple stock...I guess the only smart leaders left in Silicon Valley are over at Google.
post #207 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattetown View Post

Tim and his team are idiots.

First, switching gears from being the smart phone that "everyone" in the world uses to the luxury "phone" that only the rich and old use, is like Honda trying to become Ferrari--why bother? Honda made $3.7 billion dollars last year while Ferrari only made a fraction of that ($714 Million).

Second, your product isn't luxury if that isn't real solid gold or platinum you are holding in your hand--and if you glue a brightly colored plastic case onto the guts of the old iPhone, but ignore advances in technology like increasing the size of windshield so it stretches to the full field of vision the the Honda now offers, then you ain't shipping Ferraris.

Time to sell that Apple stock...I guess the only smart leaders left in Silicon Valley are over at Google.

Each flagship iphone costs the same as it has since the first one. An your analogy fails too.
post #208 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattetown View Post

Tim and his team are idiots.

First, switching gears from being the smart phone that "everyone" in the world uses to the luxury "phone" that only the rich and old use, is like Honda trying to become Ferrari--why bother? Honda made $3.7 billion dollars last year while Ferrari only made a fraction of that ($714 Million).

Second, your product isn't luxury if that isn't real solid gold or platinum you are holding in your hand--and if you glue a brightly colored plastic case onto the guts of the old iPhone, but ignore advances in technology like increasing the size of windshield so it stretches to the full field of vision the the Honda now offers, then you ain't shipping Ferraris.

Time to sell that Apple stock...I guess the only smart leaders left in Silicon Valley are over at Google.

 

:lol:  Excellent parody.  It was a parody, right?

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