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Samsung confirmed to be manufacturer of Apple's new A7 chip in iPhone 5s - Page 2

post #41 of 113
Didn't AI recently write up a whole article speculating that Samsung probably didn't manufacture the chip?
post #42 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

Samsung doesn't design processors. They directly license the Cortex IP design from ARM itself and fab them. (

http://www.arm.com/products/processors/licensees.php)

All this processor copy fodder of Apple, who doesn't license from ARM and self designs, is good forum fun but largely a circle****. Samsung signed on to the 64bit A57 design in October of last year(http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/arm-goes-64-bit-with-new-cortex-a53-and-cortex-a57-designs/), they've yet to use it though instead going the A53 route idiotically. Considering their processors don't even support LTE (ha!) and they use Qualcomm chips in most of their devices in most markets to support that does it even matter?

 

Uh, So much half truths here.  Samsung has (till now) designed SoCs, and as far as I know hasn't created their own CPU cores (although it's possible that they've modified reference ARM designs).  

 

As far as the Qualcomm chips go, you make it seem like apple's A7 chip supports LTE.  This is clearly not true.  From the ifixit tear down of the 5S:

 

Turning our attention to the backside of the logic board:

 
  •  

    Apple A7 APL0698 SoC (based on thisMacRumors post, the markings F8164A1PD indicate the RAM is likely 1GB)

     
  •  

    Qualcomm MDM9615M LTE Modem

     
  •  

    Qualcomm WTR1605LLTE/HSPA+/CDMA2K/TDSCDMA/EDGE/GPS transceiver.

Apple does not have a team of engineers that design LTE/radio chipsets.  As the technology needs to be implemented by both carriers and phone manufacturers, it makes little sense for apple to design these in house.  Most other manufacturers have followed the same route.

 

phil

post #43 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple will source more than one foundry as supplies ramp up. Each one will have its own stamp on it.

yeah, I'm sure apple's RTL and layout engineers have made multiple separate versions of their A7 to support multiple foundrys.  I mean, having multiple sources is worth paying tens of millions in engineering efforts not to mention the countless millions on creating new masks (likely multiple), mastering a new process technology etc....  It's possible Apple would do this to help the transition to TSMC in the future, but I doubt they'd add this much overhead with no end game in sight.  Apple cares way too much about their profit margins to take such an action out of "spite" toward a competitor. 

 

Phil

post #44 of 113

Boy, talking about Apple never learns. Or it has to do this under a contract?

post #45 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by philgar View Post
 

yeah, I'm sure apple's RTL and layout engineers have made multiple separate versions of their A7 to support multiple foundrys.  I mean, having multiple sources is worth paying tens of millions in engineering efforts not to mention the countless millions on creating new masks (likely multiple), mastering a new process technology etc....  It's possible Apple would do this to help the transition to TSMC in the future, but I doubt they'd add this much overhead with no end game in sight.  Apple cares way too much about their profit margins to take such an action out of "spite" toward a competitor. 

 

Phil

 

For Apple iPhone volumes, a ~$15M investment in redundant physical design efforts, mask sets, and SoC production testing and qualification is money well spent to obtain pricing leverage and supply flexibility. I repeat, both A7 and the A6 in the new 5c are dual source. Companies like Chipworks and TechInsights will eventually prove this: 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159530/after-its-disastrous-exynos-5-octa-samsung-may-have-lost-apples-a7-contract-to-tsmc/200#post_2397808

post #46 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post
...
Samsung realized it cannot copy the A7 since Android is still stuck in 32-bit and will not convert to 64-bit for 1-2 years - if ever. Thus Samsung is stuck with its slower 4-core 32-bit CPUs.
...

 

32-bit is not slower.  It's just not able to address as much memory space as 64-bit.  Yes, A7 is faster then A6.  But it's not from being 64-bit.  It's mostly from an improved chip architecture design.

post #47 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

That is horrible news... I dont trust that lowlife company!

If Apple signed a deal with TSMC to mfg chips, do you know that it takes a couple of years from the date they sign the deal until the fab is setup and rattling chips off an assembly line.  Especially if they are going a new die size and a foundry that is built specifically for the particular line.  

 

Switches in mfg of a custom component does NOT happen over night. And it might be possible that TSMC is making some of the chips, just not all of them, so they have at least two suppliers to use.  Apple likes to have several suppliers of as many components as they can to ensure quality, consistency and be able to meet shipping schedules.  Nothing worse than only having one supplier that can prevent products being shipped.

post #48 of 113

So what now Apple? You want to sit there and use Samsung for your processors, then want to go and bash them every chance you get? APPLE IS OWNED once again. So even when they make a new 64-bit Galaxy S4 in 2014, Samsung didn't copy Apple! Because it was Samsung who actually made the first 64-bit chip in mobile!

post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Samsung must be so embarrassed and ashamed that they have to make Apple's 64-bit A7 CPU.

Samsung realized it cannot copy the A7 since Android is still stuck in 32-bit and will not convert to 64-bit for 1-2 years - if ever. Thus Samsung is stuck with its slower 4-core 32-bit CPUs.

This is why they have to try to make fun of Apple as a way of coping with the bad news.

 

This makes no sense. If anything Apple was Samsung's guinea pig in producing a 64-bit solution in their fabs. The 64 bit design can be licensed from ARM there's no need to copy.  

The A7 as far as anyone can tell at this point is a apple designed armV8 implementation coupled with licensed PowerVR graphics core.

post #50 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post

So what now Apple? You want to sit there and use Samsung for your processors, then want to go and bash them every chance you get? APPLE IS OWNED once again. So even when they make a new 64-bit Galaxy S4 in 2014, Samsung didn't copy Apple! Because it was Samsung who actually made the first 64-bit chip in mobile!

When has Apple bashed Sammy? Calling Sammy extreme copiers is telling the truth.

Btw, have you seen Sammy's commercials?
post #51 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If Apple signed a deal with TSMC to mfg chips, do you know that it takes a couple of years from the date they sign the deal until the fab is setup and rattling chips off an assembly line.  Especially if they are going a new die size and a foundry that is built specifically for the particular line.  

Switches in mfg of a custom component does NOT happen over night. And it might be possible that TSMC is making some of the chips, just not all of them, so they have at least two suppliers to use.  Apple likes to have several suppliers of as many components as they can to ensure quality, consistency and be able to meet shipping schedules.  Nothing worse than only having one supplier that can prevent products being shipped.

Taiwan Semiconductor isn't listed as a 2013 supplier to Apple. I doubt they're shipping anything for a current Apple product.

Edit: Here's the current supplier list
http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_Supplier_List_2013.pdf

Edit2: I thought someone had mentioned it here before but perhaps not. Apple tried to throw a $Billion+ at TSMC about a year ago to get exclusive chip builds, in hindsight likely 64-bit. So did Qualcomm. TSMC turned them both down.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-29/apple-qualcomm-spurned-in-bids-for-exclusive-tsmc-chip-supply.html
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/20/13 at 2:53pm
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #52 of 113
Maybe this is one thing that Samsung is very good at.
They should be given credit for it.
Maybe Cook has changed his mind about dumping Samsung.
Tim Cook seems like a much cooler mind than S. J. who was a little bit of a hot head.
post #53 of 113
Sounds almost like apple needs them more than Samsung needs Apple.
post #54 of 113
Originally Posted by ipen View Post
Boy, talking about Apple never learns.

 

Boy, talk about knowing zilch about what’s actually going on.

 

Originally Posted by K2kW View Post
Sounds almost like apple needs them more than Samsung needs Apple.

 

Who made the first real smartphone? Aaaaand who lost a 1.5 billion dollar lawsuit for stealing the design of the first real smartphone?

 

Thought so.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #55 of 113
Oops...It looks like Samsung once again will answer the "Premium" and expensive iPhone with the launch of the S5 possibly with 64 bit processors with more RAM (3 gigs). And next year iPhone 6 will have even more innovations and after that we'll see maybe more innovations from S6...it will never end. I think instead of taking part in this silly war, choosing a BB Z,HTC One or Nokia Lumia will feel like the real meaning of "premium" and "exclusive" while Apple and Samsung keep eating each other.
post #56 of 113
Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

That is horrible news... I dont trust that lowlife company!

Well, it looks like Apple trusts that "lowlife" company which is able to manufacture the "state-of-art" processors as defined by Apple.
post #57 of 113

Samsung does a great job of manufacturing!  They're a great company!  Apple needs them right now.

 

Samsung's problem is that they can manufacture beyond Android's abilities.  And Google can't simply increase Android's sophistication, due to extreme market fragmentation.  Android has to work on legacy phones, and any new version of Android won't be upgraded by a majority of Android users worldwide.

 

This is a problem for Samsung.  Their solution is going to be making their own cutting edge OS copying iOS7.  Samsung will come out with their own version of iOS7, innovating no doubt in many ways.

 

Google will come out with its own OS as well.  Chrome will run on tablets, phones, watches, googles, etc.

 

And Amazon will continue to refine its forked Android until it comes Android's own proprietary system.

 

We're not going to repeat Windows 98 here.  Every company wants badly to be Apple.  Why?  Easy!  Apple is making all the money in the sector lol!

post #58 of 113

Silicon manufactured by Samsung has resulted in some great Apple products.  it's good for all parties, including the consumer.

post #59 of 113

The amount of misinformation and plain willful ignorance floating around in this thread is absolutely amazing to me.

 

http://liliputing.com/2013/09/android-ready-64-bit-processing.html

 

As stated in the article about Intel's Silvermont (or Bay-Trail) platform, Android is already capable of expanding to 64-bit because it is just another branch of the Linux operating system family.   ArsTechnica recently pointed out that Google and Samsung have become the biggest code contributors to the Linux platform over the last few years.  The two companies combined contributed over 4,300 line of code to the Linux kernel recently (for example ARM only contributed a bit over 600).  The only thing holding Android back from 64 bit apps is 64 bit hardware to run it on.  Intel brings this to the table right away and it was announced BEFORE the A7 chip at Apple's big event.  ARM isn't the only architecture that Android is capable of running on and running pretty well... Android already runs on previously existing Intel and AMD x64 capable chipsets and platforms that currently run 64-bit Windows and Mac OS.  The notion that Android will have to play catch-up in some way to be 64-bit capable is just silly.

 

Apple has put a 64-bit ARM chip in this generation of iPhone.  The A7 is a faster chip than what ran the previous generation.  It is also still shackled to the same 1GB of RAM that last year's iPhone 5 had. That is reality. Unfortunately, this generation of the iPhone will never see the full fruits of the benefits that 64-bit architecture brings to the table...


Edited by earthzero - 9/20/13 at 4:35pm
post #60 of 113

I'm waiting for the day when "Corrections" will correct his outlandish articles, especially when made to look as foolish as he is by this news.

post #61 of 113
Originally Posted by earthzero View Post

Android is already capable of expanding to 64-bit because it is just another branch of the Linux operating system family.

 

Explains why they didn’t even say anything about starting to do that until Apple had already done so.

 

ARM isn't the only architecture that Android is capable of running on and running pretty well...

 

“Pretty well” is relative for Android.

 
The notion that Android will have to play catch-up in some way to be 64-bit capable is just silly.

 

Number of 64-bit devices running Android? Number of devices with 64-bit Android software?

 
Apple has put a 64-bit ARM chip in this generation of iPhone.  The A7 is a faster chip than what ran the previous generation.  It is also still shackled to the same 1GB of RAM that last years iPhone 5 had. Unfortunately, this generation of the iPhone will never see the full fruits of the benefits that 64-bit architecture brings to the table...
 

 

Thanks for stating you know nothing about 64-bit.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #62 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Explains why they didn’t even say anything about starting to do that until Apple had already done so.

 

 

Why do they have to announce it for you?  The transition has been a long time coming and every company has been planning for it.  Google, Intel, Samsung, Nvidia, and the rest didn't see the iPhone 5S keynote and think, "Boy, I guess we better start working on 64-bit now."  Apple is first to market with 64-bit.  The rest are coming.

post #63 of 113
"Oops." -- DED

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #64 of 113
Since the Apple SOC is custom, aside from the licensed parts, samsung better be careful on what they copy. Proving samsung's potential SOC theft might be easier to prove then what Apple has had to deal with in the past.
post #65 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthzero View Post

The amount of misinformation and plain willful ignorance floating around in this thread is absolutely amazing to me.

http://liliputing.com/2013/09/android-ready-64-bit-processing.html

As stated in the article about Intel's Silvermont (or Bay-Trail) platform, Android is already capable of expanding to 64-bit because it is just another branch of the Linux operating system family.   ArsTechnica recently pointed out that Google and Samsung have become the biggest code contributors to the Linux platform over the last few years.  The two companies combined contributed over 4,300 line of code to the Linux kernel recently (for example ARM only contributed a bit over 600).  The only thing holding Android back from 64 bit apps is 64 bit hardware to run it on.  Intel brings this to the table right away and it was announced BEFORE the A7 chip at Apple's big event.  ARM isn't the only architecture that Android is capable of running on and running pretty well... Android already runs on previously existing Intel and AMD x64 capable chipsets and platforms that currently run 64-bit Windows and Mac OS.  The notion that Android will have to play catch-up in some way to be 64-bit capable is just silly.

Apple has put a 64-bit ARM chip in this generation of iPhone.  The A7 is a faster chip than what ran the previous generation.  It is also still shackled to the same 1GB of RAM that last year's iPhone 5 had. That is reality. Unfortunately, this generation of the iPhone will never see the full fruits of the benefits that 64-bit architecture brings to the table...

And all generations of Android will never use 64 bit. I think it's funny that other vendors have been allegedly working on better tech prior to Apple but Apple releases it first.
post #66 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthzero View Post
 

Apple has put a 64-bit ARM chip in this generation of iPhone.  The A7 is a faster chip than what ran the previous generation.  It is also still shackled to the same 1GB of RAM that last year's iPhone 5 had. That is reality. Unfortunately, this generation of the iPhone will never see the full fruits of the benefits that 64-bit architecture brings to the table...

I think shackled is the wrong term to use in this situation. It is more like...because iOS is so efficient, Apple only needs to support 1 GB of RAM thus maintaining the best in class mobile device battery life. The concept is that the more RAM the device needs to power up the more battery is consumed even when idle. If you put 4 GB of RAM in the device, you need to increase the size of the battery proportionally.  

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post #67 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Good to see Apple can look past "sentiment" to deliver an outstanding product.

 

Apple has been cutting back on display, memory orders from Samsung.  It's just that Apple doesn't have much of a choice when it comes to choosing a fab supplier.  So much for looking past the sentiment.. 

post #68 of 113
Originally Posted by lawofficer View Post
Do your research before you imply that others are ignorant.

 

So you stand behind the implication that 64-bit is useless without 4+ gigabytes of RAM?

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #69 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Apple has been cutting back on display, memory orders from Samsung.  It's just that Apple doesn't have much of a choice when it comes to choosing a fab supplier.  So much for looking past the sentiment.. 

Really, you are an expert on apples supply chain, just like ded was?
Bottom line is that Apple does what is best for their margin, if you think any different then you should apply for cookes job.

Sheesh.....
post #70 of 113
Originally Posted by Ralph Malph
So Apple now is coming out with specs just so they can claim to be first for the sake of being first. 

 

Nope. Try again.

 
No use for a 64 bit OS at the moment.

 

Nope. Try again.

 
Minuscule RAM with minuscule number of apps (if any at the moment) to support 64 bit. 

 

Completely wrong and 2 man hours of work, respectively. Try again.

 
 Samsung bringing 64 bit CPUs makes a lot more sense as their new Tizen OS is 64 Bit compliant straight away. We're talking about an OS more open, more powerful, and more flexible than Android. All the while being more fluid and stable.  Yeah, be prepared for total domination of the market. 

 

Shut up and go away, you worthless ingrates. Where do you idiots get off even coming to this website?

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #71 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope. Try again.

Nope. Try again.

Completely wrong and 2 man hours of work, respectively. Try again.

Shut up and go away, you worthless ingrates. Where do you idiots get off even coming to this website?

There were 64 bit phones last year bud!

http://m.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/huawei-ascend-d-quad-is-as-powerful-as-a-64-bit-pc-1066474

And it ran a custom Linux android kernel
post #72 of 113

 

Runs “at 64-bit”, huh?

Originally posted by Relic

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post #73 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope. Try again.

Nope. Try again.

Completely wrong and 2 man hours of work, respectively. Try again.

Shut up and go away, you worthless ingrates. Where do you idiots get off even coming to this website?

There were 64 bit phones last year bud!

http://m.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/huawei-ascend-d-quad-is-as-powerful-as-a-64-bit-pc-1066474

And it ran a custom Linux android kernel

I read that it runs stock Android 4

http://pr.huawei.com/en/news/hw-124124-mwcworldsfastestquad-coresmartphonehuaweiascenddqu.htm#.Uj1B7-caySM

Where did you get the custom 64-bit OS piece?
post #74 of 113

http://www.slashgear.com/android-64-bit-support-already-baked-in-just-add-hardware-17298038/

 

“[While Apple touted 64-bit support in the new iPhone,] that’s done in Linux, has been done for a long time. The Android ecosystem just picks that up by default, they don’t have to go through any special development process to do that.” – Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin

post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


And all generations of Android will never use 64 bit. I think it's funny that other vendors have been allegedly working on better tech prior to Apple but Apple releases it first.

 

One more time...

 

“[While Apple touted 64-bit support in the new iPhone,] that’s done in Linux, has been done for a long time. The Android ecosystem just picks that up by default, they don’t have to go through any special development process to do that.” – Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin

 

ANDROID IS PART OF THE LINUX FAMILY and it uses the same basic kernel that pics up code as it evolves and can be/is used by all variants.  It supports both 32-bit and 64-bit instructions and has been 64-bit capable for years.  Stop the madness, please...

 

As I said in my first post, sure Apple has a chip capable of running 64-bit.  I still feel that this particular phone, the 5s, will be left behind when they come out with actual software and applications that can fully make use of the capabilities of a 64-bit OS.  Let's let time be the judge of whether I'm right or wrong.


Edited by earthzero - 9/21/13 at 12:37am
post #76 of 113
Most of you here talk about making an advance micro processor is like frying chips (ever been to England, call chips here too) if it was that easy, where is all the other processors makers now?

Having a blue print and foundry is one thing. Able to make it happens - with the vision, deep pocket and guts to do so is another. It's not like push a button, put potato in, and chips will come out from the other end.

I am sure Android will move to 64 bit eventually. But what I want to emphasis here is this - all this Apple haters say Apple don't innovate any more. Seriously? Making screen bigger is call innovation? Where design (and works!) using low memory foot print (those keep saying throw more ram in there, why? Seriously?) using you know who said at WWDC this year "don't innovate anymore my ass"

And Tim is an ultra cool awesome businessman. Who ever delivery at the time / cost / + a million things get the contract.

Do you know how many of your possession are made? Burberry made in Shenzhen. Gucci made in Yangzhou. Nike made everywhere but US of A. So take it as it is.

Welcome to the real business world.
post #77 of 113
I use both an iphone5 and an HTC One, so I don't see myself as a fanboy of neither iOS nor Android.

Having said that... Ralph Malph and Earthzero:

Your ignorance about Linux and 64 bits computing (or more specifically memory handling, kernels and apps "written for 64 bits) is embarrassing to say the least.

Please go read up on the subject, before you embarrass yourself and other Android owners again.

Yes, the iPhone is the first 64 bits smartphone. And it can take advantage of that in ways that an Android phone can't, thanks to fragmentation.

And no, Android isn't "Linux" anymore than BB10 is QNX.
post #78 of 113

64 bit will only take advantage of its processing power when there is more than 4GB of RAM. 

 

Most phones now only have 1 - 2GB of RAM. 


Samsung's Galaxy Note 3 now has 3GB of Ram. 

 

Again, Apple is Samsung's bitch. 

 

Samsung wins either way. 

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #79 of 113
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post
64 bit will only take advantage of its processing power when there is more than 4GB of RAM. 

 

Again, that’s wrong.

 
Again, Apple is Samsung's bitch. 

 

Again, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Par for your course.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #80 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think shackled is the wrong term to use in this situation. It is more like...because iOS is so efficient, Apple only needs to support 1 GB of RAM thus maintaining the best in class mobile device battery life. The concept is that the more RAM the device needs to power up the more battery is consumed even when idle. If you put 4 GB of RAM in the device, you need to increase the size of the battery proportionally.  
This is complete rubbish. The power draw of 2 or 4GB of dram is negligible. In fact with more dram the system and applications become much more efficient, which if anything, helps battery life.
The use of 1GB is purely a cost/margin choice.
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