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Analysts react to Apple's iPhone 5s and 5c launch weekend sales - Page 3

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's more like we made 100 widgets but had 50 leftover before these new improved widgets came out so we're including them in the sales figures, but even with that I don't believe old inventory of iPhones accounted for more than a few hundred thousand.

Two issues:
1. As you said, the number of unsold iPhones is minimal. Both the 5S and 5C are backordered, so I doubt if there were many sitting on shelves today.

2. Cook said that they SOLD 9 M phones. It's not clear whether Apple's system would include a phone in inventory as a sale or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post

I rest my case:  They (the supposed analysts) are not "overtly manipulating any stock", they are merely expressing  "their professional opinions".  Nothing wrong with that - your are opinions are exactly worth as much as mine - it's the American way!

There is no "false information" to be spread when I am just offering an opinion - it's just an opinion.  Of course, if someone's stock crashes because of my comments - I'm soooo sorry - it was just an opinion - no-one should have listened to me.

Now that's good advice.

That's not what you said. If you had said that they weren't manipulating the stock, that might have been defensible. Instead, you said that they could say whatever they wanted because of Freedom of Speech. I was simply pointing out that your premise was wrong. They can NOT legally say whatever they want. There are a lot of things they could say that would be illegal.

The fact that they're getting away with it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.
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post #82 of 107
sandroidiego:

1) They actually sold two different phones this time. That means people who had put off an upgrade could get the new 5C for a lower price than if they had gotten the 5 (despite the 5 and 5C basically being the same phone). Without a breakdown of how the sales are for each model, the flagship (5S) might actually have sold worse than the 5. For instance, a 50/50 split would mean each unit sold 4.5 million a piece, which would actually mean that their profit margin dropped.

2) The iPhone was released in China for the first time this year, too. That's a HUGE market. For the iPhone release-weekend market to have possibly doubled (I don't have the actual stats on market sizes handy), and the combined 5S and 5C releases to have less than doubled would mean that sales are actually slower than they were for the 5, despite the raw numbers being better.

Basically, it seems to me that 5 million units of the 5 alone, without China, might actually be more impressive than 9 million units of the 5S and 5C with China.

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post #83 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Two issues:
1. As you said, the number of unsold iPhones is minimal. Both the 5S and 5C are backordered, so I doubt if there were many sitting on shelves today.

2. Cook said that they SOLD 9 M phones. It's not clear whether Apple's system would include a phone in inventory as a sale or not.

Obviously all stores still had a supply of iPhones 5, and 4/4S. I'm sure people grabbed some of those up as well but not 3-4 million of them. I've seen analysts say some off the wall things but Gene just took the cake.
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post #84 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocseg View Post

sandroidiego:

1) They actually sold two different phones this time. That means people who had put off an upgrade could get the new 5C for a lower price than if they had gotten the 5 (despite the 5 and 5C basically being the same phone). Without a breakdown of how the sales are for each model, the flagship (5S) might actually have sold worse than the 5. For instance, a 50/50 split would mean each unit sold 4.5 million a piece, which would actually mean that their profit margin dropped.

2) The iPhone was released in China for the first time this year, too. That's a HUGE market. For the iPhone release-weekend market to have possibly doubled (I don't have the actual stats on market sizes handy), and the combined 5S and 5C releases to have less than doubled would mean that sales are actually slower than they were for the 5, despite the raw numbers being better.

Basically, it seems to me that 5 million units of the 5 alone, without China, might actually be more impressive than 9 million units of the 5S and 5C with China.

 

I sincerely doubt they did a 50/50 split and if they even came close it would be because they were out of the 5S model.  That being said when you front load China, and they did over 2 million there in the first weekend last year, there is no way the 5S outsold the 5.  Of course the overall numbers will depend on just how many phones are on order so we wont know until they report in January just how much demand there was for the 5S early on.

 

Keep in mind they also aggressively gave credit for later model phones to make sure there was demand for these newer models and I dont recall them ever doing that before.

 

Hey, 9 million phones is a lot of phones, but it's the back order that will really tell the story.

post #85 of 107
let me put it to you guys and all the pundits another way:

what consumer product in this price range EVER sold more tha 9 million in its first thee day on the market???

answer: none.
post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydr View Post

Watch this and laugh:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000201502&play=1

Thanks for sharing! What absolute fk'n morons! How could these analysts be so stupid, and the one clown who sees the same thing happening to Apple that happened to Blackberry - ROFLMAOOL
post #87 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


and the author brings up some valid concerns for many stockholders.

What exactly is "some valid concerns" he brought?

post #88 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple did awesome. But I think the 5c sales show that the 5c might be overpriced. I think Apple could have made it about $50-$100 cheaper and it would have done a lot better. There is no reason for the 5c to ever be priced the same as the 5s (which happens at the $200 level).

Although that may be part of Apple's upsell strategy, and low 5s yields are the driver behind them marketing the 5c so heavily.

You're either writing this in a vacuum or you are dumb.
post #89 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


For starters the keyword is 'might', and the author brings up some valid concerns for many stockholders.

 

Nope. The author is clueless idiot, not even bored enough to look down the timeline in the past and check what has Apple reinvented and when, but rather touting loud now already the old mantra how Apple has lost it's mojo without SJ not wanting to reinvent the wheel every year...

 
I will ask just one question: why nothing meaningful is not reinvented by some other company than Apple, having much more engineers "working on projects" ?
post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post
 

What exactly is "some valid concerns" he brought?

 

Author is concerned not buying AAPL before announcement expecting lower sales. Now he/she is trying to fix this. 

post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydr View Post
 

Watch this and laugh:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000201502&play=1

 

All of this guys will never learn. They both were idiots - That is all I am going to say! For once, I was happy at the CNBC guy and how he told the guest on phone - Come on lets get serious - Apple proved us all wrong!

post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

Where is Al Franken when you need him? Congressional hearing please.

 

You must have missed it! He already raised his neck on the the finger print technology on iPhone 5s. He is afraid about privacy issues ! Check this out - 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/20/al-franken-iphone-fingerprint_n_3961852.html?utm_hp_ref=technology

 

 

 

post #93 of 107
QUOTE:
Ben A. Reitzes, Barclays
iOS 7 appears to be driving sales of new iPhones, while sales numbers are even more encouraging due to iPhone 5s supply constraints.

Target: $525.00
Rating: Overweight

"We find it interesting that Apple is also positively revising its guidance while the quarter is still about a week away from closing. We do not recall this type of pre-announcement ever happening and it seems that it implies a message from management that the company is back on track.


Someone please tell me where to find this F%u2026ing IDIOT so I can pound his skull with my iPhone. When has Apple EVER been off track?!?
post #94 of 107
Watch this and laugh:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000201502&play=1


These guys are all jokes. Just look at their record.
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobeornottobe View Post

Watch this and laugh:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000201502&play=1


These guys are all jokes. Just look at their record.

 

The interviewer was authentically shocked! He couldn'T believe if they are really such morons. What we have seen in this video is actually criminal act of intentionally misleading the audience. It seems that those guys can really get away with anything since they are serving the "greater purpose" of global capital. We have just seen the shameful example of pure intention to squeeze money out of small stockholders...

 
WS is Wall of Shame....
post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Welcome to CNBC after 10 AM. A wasteland.

It would be nice if there was a decent financial news channel but all three of them suck! When it comes to Apple Bloomberg is just as bad as CNBC!
post #97 of 107
i hope tim cook notices how poorly the 5C did, apple customers dont want cheap plastic, they want high end, android has the low end market locked down
post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

let me put it to you guys and all the pundits another way:

what consumer product in this price range EVER sold more tha 9 million in its first thee day on the market???

answer: none.

At an average price of $600, that means that Apple sold more than $5 B in phones in the first weekend. That's more than Blackberry sells in a quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkikrome View Post

QUOTE:
Ben A. Reitzes, Barclays
iOS 7 appears to be driving sales of new iPhones, while sales numbers are even more encouraging due to iPhone 5s supply constraints.

Target: $525.00
Rating: Overweight

"We find it interesting that Apple is also positively revising its guidance while the quarter is still about a week away from closing. We do not recall this type of pre-announcement ever happening and it seems that it implies a message from management that the company is back on track.


Someone please tell me where to find this F%u2026ing IDIOT so I can pound his skull with my iPhone. When has Apple EVER been off track?!?

On top of that, what's with the "iOS 7 appears to be driving sales of the new iPhones"? What in the world makes him think that people spent $5 B on new phones to get the new OS? Especially since they can simply download the OS for free for their existing phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

i hope tim cook notices how poorly the 5C did, apple customers dont want cheap plastic, they want high end, android has the low end market locked down

If the estimates are true, then they sold 2 M of the 5C in the first weekend. How many Android 'low end' phones sold that well?
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post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehawk View Post

I would like to know what proof has been supplied that the 5c is not selling well other than from media or analysts. They ask people in lines what they are there for and they all say the 5s. Well no kidding that is what they are in line for since there was no pre orders for them. People start sayin the 5c is not selling good and it gets repeated and soon enough people start to believe it. Show me proof.

 

I agree. I also think you have two very different consumer profiles for the 5s and the 5c as well as the lack of 5s pre-order you pointed out. The 5s tends to attract the 'power user' (i.e., high end) consumer that wants it now (or preferably 3 months ago) and is willing to jump thru flaming hoops or sleep on the sidewalk for a night or few. They will compromise on color but most want max memory and maybe multiple phones. I think once the first weekend dust settles the 5c will sell reasonably well -- especially for the holiday (when Apple makes it clear that they have plenty available).

 
IMHO the 5c price being $79 to $169 might have made them a little more attractive while still keeping a high profit margin. There is always room to play that card at holidays or beginning of year if a stimulus seems needed. I think it might have given that bit of differentiation  between the two lines. Apple has never shied away from lines overlapping (or dovetailing) on price (e.g., MBA, MB and MBP lines).
 
I think it makes a lot more sense to watch a bit longer and wait for at least another week -- but the analysts have to tell the gamblers, uh, investors something because they demand it; and of course the analysts with their flaky logic (if any) can always blame it on the fed or unemployment, etc...
post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGkDSzGtdew

5c failed the drop test. 5s survived.

 

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/09/22/iphone-5s-vs-iphone-5c-drop-test/

same result with cases on both phones.

 

Thanks PatPatPat - good info.

post #101 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_C View Post
 

 

Thanks PatPatPat - good info.

 

If these tests were not just "flukes" and the 5s is more resilient to drops than 5c, it makes the $100 price gap seem even less of a barrier. I'm pretty sure it costs well over $100 to replace/repair a IP5 screen outside of applecare and ~$50 with.

post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

i hope tim cook notices how poorly the 5C did, apple customers dont want cheap plastic, they want high end, android has the low end market locked down

First of all there are no facts to back up this "poor" showing. Secondly, it's been three days. Thirdly, even if reports are remotely true, how is it poor compared to non-iPhones on the initial weekend? Fourthly, it's not the flagship phone. So most of the public won't buy it in the first weekend. Fifthly, did I mention it was three days?
post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

even if reports are remotely true, how is it poor compared to non-iPhones on the initial weekend?
More Importantly how does it compare to the 4S during the 5 introduction?

Sorry, The more I think about it, and see Apple's ridiculous monotone color billboards around town, the more I think they missed the timing here. They should have introduced the plastic colored case when they introduced the iPhone 4, a natural evolution from the 3G/S. Now it just feels like a step backward, and people will react to that, especially when Apple is charging premium prices for it, and pushing the new "gold" standard. If vanity is now a marketing point for Apple's flagship technology, then doesn't candy-colored plastic lose to elegant gold every time?

I don't really see the 4S doing very well either, except for perhaps ATT who will continue to legally deceive people that their 4S is "4G", a claim Verizon and Sprint and the others cannot make. When given the choice of a 3G iPhone and a 4G LTE Android, for the same price, I don't really see people ruminating on the choice long.

So iPhone users are relegated to ultra-low end technology, but beautifully crafted steel and glass 4S, or ultra-high end to get the same build. The 5c is the only iPhone that competes with the Android offerings on price, but it's not likely to appeal to the same crowd at all. I doubt we'll see many in the boardroom.

It's almost like Apple had a focus group where a large group of image-conscious iPhone users complained that they were paying a premium for the latest phone and it didnt look any different than the last year's cheaper phone. Maybe they could have made plastic work, but deliberately not offering a more professional version in black does not seem like a smart move.

Time will tell of course, and Apple has so much money they can afford to make a big mistake. But As of July, the 5 was taking in just 52% of sales, the 4S 30%, and the 4 18%. I doubt the 5c and 4S will do as well. And maybe that's the point. Maybe it's not listening to a vain faction of its user base, but rather, despite Cook's denials that he fears product cannibalization; the 5 did not sell as well as the 4S did compared to the 4 & 3GS. So now he's forcing the customers hand with antiquated technology and candy-coatings.
post #104 of 107
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post
i hope tim cook notices how poorly the 5C did

 

I hope you notice how wrong you are.

post #105 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

More Importantly how does it compare to the 4S during the 5 introduction?

Sorry, The more I think about it, and see Apple's ridiculous monotone color billboards around town, the more I think they missed the timing here. They should have introduced the plastic colored case when they introduced the iPhone 4, a natural evolution from the 3G/S. Now it just feels like a step backward, and people will react to that, especially when Apple is charging premium prices for it, and pushing the new "gold" standard. If vanity is now a marketing point for Apple's flagship technology, then doesn't candy-colored plastic lose to elegant gold every time?

I don't really see the 4S doing very well either, except for perhaps ATT who will continue to legally deceive people that their 4S is "4G", a claim Verizon and Sprint and the others cannot make. When given the choice of a 3G iPhone and a 4G LTE Android, for the same price, I don't really see people ruminating on the choice long.

So iPhone users are relegated to ultra-low end technology, but beautifully crafted steel and glass 4S, or ultra-high end to get the same build. The 5c is the only iPhone that competes with the Android offerings on price, but it's not likely to appeal to the same crowd at all. I doubt we'll see many in the boardroom.

It's almost like Apple had a focus group where a large group of image-conscious iPhone users complained that they were paying a premium for the latest phone and it didnt look any different than the last year's cheaper phone. Maybe they could have made plastic work, but deliberately not offering a more professional version in black does not seem like a smart move.

Time will tell of course, and Apple has so much money they can afford to make a big mistake. But As of July, the 5 was taking in just 52% of sales, the 4S 30%, and the 4 18%. I doubt the 5c and 4S will do as well. And maybe that's the point. Maybe it's not listening to a vain faction of its user base, but rather, despite Cook's denials that he fears product cannibalization; the 5 did not sell as well as the 4S did compared to the 4 & 3GS. So now he's forcing the customers hand with antiquated technology and candy-coatings.

The 5C isn't for the techies, fanboys, the rich or the boardroom type. Fact is the % of those consumers is probably < 30%. Those folks will buy the 5S.

The 5C is for those willing to take a look at iOS. Those folks are feature phone buyers, teens, android/blackberry/WinMob refugees, those that don't need the latest and greatest tech. That is the majority of consumers.

As for the % portfolio of iPhone models, Apple wants the 5S to be top dog. You can't really compare % y to y as the total number of sales is ever increasing.
post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
 

Apple did awesome. But I think the 5c sales show that the 5c might be overpriced. I think Apple could have made it about $50-$100 cheaper and it would have done a lot better. There is no reason for the 5c to ever be priced the same as the 5s (which happens at the $200 level).

 

Although that may be part of Apple's upsell strategy, and low 5s yields are the driver behind them marketing the 5c so heavily.

 

I think the choices look a bit different if you compare them at their actual price:

- 4s, 8 GB    -> $450
- 5c, 16 GB  -> $549
- 5c, 32 GB  -> $649

- 5s, 16 GB  -> $649

- 5s, 32 GB  -> $749

- 5s, 64 GB  -> $849

 
Going from zero to $200 looks different than going from $450 to $650. 
post #107 of 107
Looks like China Mobile deal is just around the corner! Apple is no dummy, unlike what at the WS wizzels and ANALyst claims to think! Apple already know that they have this quarter in the bag. They will announce the deal on October 1st - Day after Tim's meet with Ichan and also start of the new quarter. Along with new product announcements in next quarter they are going to blow the quarter. I can just watch all those negative ANALyst jumping out of their windows for being so wrong and stupid about Apple.
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