or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › ABC, WSJ bloggers explain Apple's record iPhone launch numbers are bad news
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

ABC, WSJ bloggers explain Apple's record iPhone launch numbers are bad news - Page 3

post #81 of 146
Good article from asuncion on shipped vs sold here.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/05/28/shipped-and-sold-a-brief-introduction/

He seems to indicate that apple leaves a quarter with 5% inventory. So unless we are assuming massive inventory build up for the 5C - which would be diverting from actual sell through in online orders - then most of the 9 million sales were sell through.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #82 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post
Its all hype then. Well android sets are better looking strictly at specs. Hopefully Apple will deliver an amazing iPhone 6.

 

I wonder what good are those specs when the iphone 5s completly destroys all the other phones on Geekbench in singlecore, multicore and battery life. 

post #83 of 146
Who the f*ck is Sandy Cannold?
post #84 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

I said the analysts would work the China debut numbers into the equation. I didn't say good or bad; right or wrong. I just said they would harp on about it.

 

Some of our more astute members put all of their passion and angst into telling me that I wasn't using my brain.

 

You gotta love it.  

 

:lol: 

 

China estimates were already factored in to the estimates by the street.  What is interesting is that Apple revised its estimates upwards.  

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #85 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Who the f*ck is Sandy Cannold?

A fat fingered f*ck, weren't you paying attention? Btw his tweet was idiotic since the buttons on virtual keyboards are bigger than on a physical one.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #86 of 146
I agree with Dan, but I will point out that Munster is referring to 5C inventory which everyone agrees is widely available. The 5S is the one out of stock.

That being said, Apple has never reported sell-in numbers before. What would be the point anyway. If Apple tried to "trick" people with sell-in numbers they would have to pay the piper when they report their September quarter inventory in October. I don't think they would want to overheat enthusiasm only to have to deflate it a couple weeks later. Ultimately, I find Munster's logic flawed.

A point that is seemingly overlooked is that the iPhone 5 was supply constrained last year. The 5S was also supply constrained. The question is, were they equally supply constrained. Different answers to that question in particular can paint a very very rosy picture or a potentially more muted one. The problem is people are trying to extrapolate one weekend of sales into an entire quarter and even year of sales. There are just too many moving parts.
post #87 of 146

Research analysts are most definitely restricted from trading names they cover. In fact, they are restricted from trading names their colleagues cover as well. Let's not go overborad with conspiracy theories. 

post #88 of 146
We get that you like Blackberry, Mr. Cannold, but what's with the swipes at Apple? Under-the-table coin, jealousy?

The reason I buy Apple products and services at the premium it bears is because of the quality of the product along with the features for which make my life more convenient and from the positive experience and enjoyment it brings. I also like it because it is easy-to-use and possesses better security features (hardware and software) than other offerings that I've seen on the market.

No product or service is perfect, but Apple's provides the most of everything for my money. So if Blackberry or Android floats your boat, then great! More power to you! Just don't preach that your system is better when the experience differs from person-to-person.
post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Apple is damned if they do, damned if they don't. Apparently.

That's doomed if they do and doomed if they don't.
post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Who the f*ck is Sandy Cannold?

A little steroid ointment will clear it right up.
post #91 of 146

The analyst comments about China being included are asinine. China being included wasn't a surprise. The analysts based their original numbers of $4-6M on knowledge of China being included. Apple beat their estimates. Case closed.

post #92 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

The analyst comments about China being included are asinine. China being included wasn't a surprise. The analysts based their original numbers of $4-6M on knowledge of China being included. Apple beat their estimates. Case closed.

This is always my favorite part of their follow-up reports. They were wrong, way wrong and then try to claim it was because of some factor everyone knew about for months.
post #93 of 146
All of those sh¡tty news... I smell full of bullsh¡t. I bet they got that fake info from crappy Samesung or Samsjunk.

Please excuse my lame English grammar. American Sign Language is my first language and English's the second.
Tallest Skill, you can edit my English grammar for me. My English grammar sucks! lol

Reply

Please excuse my lame English grammar. American Sign Language is my first language and English's the second.
Tallest Skill, you can edit my English grammar for me. My English grammar sucks! lol

Reply
post #94 of 146

Apple simply needs to regain control of it public relations and spend more on advertising.  Right now Samsung dominates the advertising market on TV & internet so my bet is this is why so many people kowtow to everything Samsung. In addition, Samsung pays higher commissions to sales staff in brick &mortar stores.  These people end up pushing Samsung products as better than anything else..  Samsung buys loyalty from the media & sales people.  Perhaps Tim Cook should get off some of that money and do the same.

post #95 of 146

Wait Til Q Report

Apple would not have raised quarterly estimates if it had not sold the phones it reported to have sold.  All this noise about the validity of the 9M is meaningless and Gene Munster has lost all credibility.  We all knew that whatever numbers Apple reported, the biased media would have reported it negatively.  Ignore them and keep buying Apple stock if you believe in what they are doing. 

post #96 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybfmiami View Post
 

Apple simply needs to regain control of it public relations and spend more on advertising.  Right now Samsung dominates the advertising market on TV & internet so my bet is this is why so many people kowtow to everything Samsung. In addition, Samsung pays higher commissions to sales staff in brick &mortar stores.  These people end up pushing Samsung products as better than anything else..  Samsung buys loyalty from the media & sales people.  Perhaps Tim Cook should get off some of that money and do the same.

 

Yeah, because at least if they spent more money on advertising they'd have record sales, lines around the block and sell out all inventory. Oh, wait. Never mind.

post #97 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I wonder what good are those specs when the iphone 5s completly destroys all the other phones on Geekbench in singlecore, multicore and battery life. 

Apple needs to publish those figures.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #98 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post

Yeah, because at least if they spent more money on advertising they'd have record sales, lines around the block and sell out all inventory. Oh, wait. Never mind.

I hate this kind of comic book guy sneer masquerading as an argument.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #99 of 146

Let's say Apple goes on to "revolutionize" watches and televisions.

What will they owe analysts 4 years after that? 

post #100 of 146
I believe you will find that Apple only reports phones actually delivered to customers as sales. Inventory is never included.
post #101 of 146

CNBC Apple hater in chief, Melissa Less, is also a Blackberry user aka Blackberry loser.

post #102 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

This is from the guy's twitter feed a few days ago. No wonder that he has an anti-Apple bias. He just doesn't get it, neither does Blackberry, Blackberry is soon dead and "Blackberry enthusiasts" are soon to be extinct.

sandy cannold ‏@SandyCannold20 Sep

I will be so sad if blackberry doesn't survive.. I can't type on a device without a keyboard.. Fat fingers & digital keyboard don't mix..

How fat are this guy's fingers? Mine are pretty chubby, and I find fiddling about on a physical keyboard much harder than using a glass keyboard on either iOS or Android. To be fair, Blackberry's physical keyboards are better than most, but still...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post

If I was so spectacularly shit at what I did for a living, and so utterly bollock-less I couldn't even admit I was wrong, I'd kill myself.
Don't kill yourself: become a market analyst instead!

Seriously, it doesn't matter what any "analyst" says, there are no repercussions for their wrong statements, they can just keep on going. They're like psychics. If you're wrong, just keep going and eventually someone will think you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

Dicks.
Such a well thought out and eloquent response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flux8 View Post

Black is white, white is black. Up is down. Left is right.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

I've been trying to work out if the problem is that market analysts don't get technology, or that tech pundits don't get technology either. And neither of them really understands markets. All they ever do is spout their personal biases, and then, when proven wrong, explain how they weren't actually wrong, it's the facts that are wrong - the sales numbers aren't actually sales numbers, the phones aren't phones, the Apple Television Set will be out this quarter, definitely. Then, by the time the next cycle arrives, no-one will remember how much of a cock-up they made last time, and it starts all over again.
post #103 of 146
Originally Posted by ybfmiami View Post
Apple simply needs to regain control of it public relations and spend more on advertising.

 

Question (I forget who’s asking it): “What are we going to do about the press? The Wall Street Journal reporters get up, sell Apple short in the morning, and then go write stories about us. And it’s clear it’s a perception versus reality problem. They don’t know shit about operating systems, they don’t know any thing about tools or what’s going on in the future. They don’t know that we’re building icebergs and that we’re building them from the bottom up.”

 

Steve Jobs: “Sure. I’m sure that a lot of you have had this experience where you’re changing; you’re growing as a person. And people tend to treat you like you’re where you were 18 months ago. And it’s really frustrating sometimes when you’re growing up and you’re becoming more capable; you have some personality quirks you’ve gotten rid of. And people still treat you like you were a year to 18 months ago. It can be very frustrating. It’s the same with a company, it’s the same with the press. The press is going to have a lag time. The best thing we can do about the press is embrace them, do the best we can to educate them about the strategy, but to keep the eye on the prize. And that is turning out some great products, communicating with our customers the best we can, getting the community of people–like yourselves–in the loop so you know everything, and just marching forward one foot in front of the other. The press will take care of–it’s like the stock price–the press and the stock price will take care of themselves. By the end of the year, it’s going to look quite different. And I, you know, I’m like an old man in this industry now. I’ve seen the ups and downs, and when you see enough of them, you know that’s going to happen. So when you get up in the morning and you see the press sell Apple short, go out and buy some shares!

 

*later*

 

Question: “So Apple has turned it around. We have you, we have Gil, we have G3, we have Rhapsody, we have Newton… great. When are we gonna see some really kick-ass TV commercials to change the mindset?”

 

Steve Jobs: “Yeah… I feel very good about [Apple turning around]. Um… I’ll give you my own opinion on this. Marketing is a subjective thing. It’s not a science; there’s a lot of art to it. My personal belief is that the medium does communicate a lot about the message. In some cases, the medium overrides the message. And I personally believe that Apple should not be on TV at all this year. It’s the wrong place to be for Apple. What it means is that Apple is trying to spend a lot of money to convince you that everything’s okay. And what I think Apple ought to be doing is taking a fraction of that money and putting it in print. And I don’t mean eight page Wall Street Journal ads. Because an eight page Wall Street Journal ad is saying, “I’m going to spend my wad to show you that I’m back.” And what Apple needs right now is not to be telling everyone we’re back, it needs for the journalists to be saying that Apple is back on page one. Because if on page 7 to 14 Apple’s spending a million dollars to say we’re back but on page one a journalist writes an article saying they’re in the tank, who’re you gonna believe? As a matter of fact, that million bucks on page 7-14 are gonna reinforce the message! “They’ve gotta buy me.”… …”I think that more than anything right now, PR is influencing purchasing decisions in this category… …I believe strongly that Apple really needs to talk about its great products and its great customers and its great applications and the best way for it to do that is in print in a very straightforward way. And I also believe very strongly that the high order bid of any market campaign is profitability. We spend a boatload of money marketing ourselves in a quarter and we lose money in that quarter… any positive momentum in that quarter is completely erased. So profitability is the high order bid for Apple at this time.

 

– Steve Jobs, WWDC 1997.

 

I recommend watching the entirety of Steve’s WWDC ’97 keynote. It is, I think, one of his best. Knowing the future after that speech shows you that he already knew exactly what Apple was going to be.

 

A few things he says–“We’re too proprietary”, “tell the clone makers they can build their own hardware!”, and “milk the Mac for all it’s worth and move on to the next thing” are off. But that’s Steve, you know? He saw that he was wrong and didn’t go down those paths. But he knew where he was right–about everything else!

 

In addition, Samsung pays higher commissions to sales staff in brick &mortar stores. These people end up pushing Samsung products as better than anything else.

 

Who cares? Apple has STORES. Samsung has kiosks and, if this is what you’re saying, pays off other companies’ employees to steal sales from Apple.

 
Samsung buys loyalty from the media & sales people.  Perhaps Tim Cook should get off some of that money and do the same. 

 

NO. Do you get anything about Apple? Apple has soul. Apple puts its soul into its products, who in turn have soul. These products connect with users because of how they are made. Nothing else, from any other company, does that. And you want Apple to whore itself out to the media?!

 

When we hear that employees of the four telecoms are being paid to sell Android over Apple, I rejoice. Because THEY CAN’T WIN ANY OTHER WAY. They have to sell their souls to sell their products. And Apple products sell themselves.

 

That should never change.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 9/24/13 at 2:34pm

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #104 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creid1987 View Post

Research analysts are most definitely restricted from trading names they cover. In fact, they are restricted from trading names their colleagues cover as well. Let's not go overborad with conspiracy theories. 

Haha. Kudos to you if you wrote that with a straight face. WS never breaks the law and always follows the rules.
post #105 of 146

Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ as well as FoxLies etc.  Murdoch  hates the current administration.  Tim Cook, Apple & SJ's widow viewed as friendly with this administration.  Hence the hatred of Apple from Murdoch in particular and right wing media in general.

post #106 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybfmiami View Post

Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ as well as FoxLies etc.  Murdoch  hates the current administration.  Tim Cook, Apple & SJ's widow viewed as friendly with this administration.  Hence the hatred of Apple from Murdoch in particular and right wing media in general.

Explain ABC and CNBC.
post #107 of 146
Where will these assholes turn their attention to when AAPL goes private?
post #108 of 146
"If you're explaining, you're losing." - Ronald Reagan and others
post #109 of 146
Originally Posted by JackTheRat View Post
Where will these assholes turn their attention to when AAPL goes private?

 

Hopefully GOOG and AMAZ, whose stock prices need a nice little (read: huge) tumble.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #110 of 146

I was simply talking about changing the media bias against Apple.

post #111 of 146

CNBC is a FoxLies wanna be.  Can't explain ABC other than to say that person was just a blogger & this was a one off event.  CNBC & WSJ on the other hand are relentlessly anti-Apple.

post #112 of 146
I seem to remember Munster talking in the past that Apple doesn't report what they ship, only what they sell. And if there's a backlog of demand, does it matter? There's a picture of a man with egg on his face. It's long overdue for the SEC to investigate all the doom and gloom analysts to see which Hedge Fund is paying them to drive down the stock price of AAPL. Remember the spring earnings release when CNBC & Michelle Lee brought out the $425 guy and the price plummeted from $480 after the report to guess what - $425 - the next day?
And everyone knows Cramer is the biggest HF hack of all, with the blessings of CNBC, apparently. Could any other new cell phone release get coverage on CBS Evening News besides Apple and be such a loser company?
post #113 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnarpy View Post

I believe you will find that Apple only reports phones actually delivered to customers as sales. Inventory is never included.
No I'm pretty sure Apple's sales figures include what resellers purchased from them. But no way would Apple have filed an 8K with the SEC adjusting their guidance to the high end of the range if that 9M included millions of unsold phones sitting in a reseller stockroom somewhere. Also it's unlikely that resellers would over purchase as they can't return unsold product to Apple for a refund. They purchase it, they sell it or eat it.
post #114 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybfmiami View Post

Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ as well as FoxLies etc.  Murdoch  hates the current administration.  Tim Cook, Apple & SJ's widow viewed as friendly with this administration.  Hence the hatred of Apple from Murdoch in particular and right wing media in general.
CNBC, Bloomberg, Marketwatch, ABCNBCCBSCNNMSNBCBBC etc. are not right wing media. Also the only component of the WSJ that could be considered right wing is the editorial page.
post #115 of 146
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
"Sell in," shorthand for shipping products that haven't yet sold, is only important when supplies are exceeding demand. If you sell out of your available stock, there is no distinction between your "sell in" and "sell through."

 

Ask Microsoft about sell in and writedowns.

$1 billion writedown for Surface already.  

And they're coming back for more punishment with Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2.

 

Microsoft: "Hey teens!  Check out our new, hip, Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2!"

 

The public: "There was a 1 ?"

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #116 of 146

 I didn't read the author's name at first. After reading this line: "Blackberry delivered one industry changing new product since its founding in 1984," however, I immediately recognized it as a DED piece. 

For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
post #117 of 146

Any fool with a keyboard can write an investment analysis and they often do.

post #118 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post
 

I wish Apple would just cut off analysts like Gene Munster. I mean, cut him off the earnings calls and all interviews. It obviously can't happen, but if Apple is willing to give him their time during calls to answer his questions, then at the very least he should take Apple at it's word instead of trying to fit their statement as some poor excuse for his awful analysis of the sales numbers. You lost what integrity you had, instead of just saying 'I must have missed something, I'll update my analysis'.

 

I wonder if he put money where his mouth is and shorted Apple. Or if his clients are on his case for screwing up.

 

I really hope they embarrass him on the next call. Name him as an example of how wrong analysts can be.

post #119 of 146

Gotta love these idiotic Apple-hating fanboys (although I think idiotic Apple-loving fanboys are just as hilarious lol).

post #120 of 146

Anti-Apple writers just don't get it... And, those who mock success (Apple's or anybody's) are just sore losers...

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • ABC, WSJ bloggers explain Apple's record iPhone launch numbers are bad news
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › ABC, WSJ bloggers explain Apple's record iPhone launch numbers are bad news