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Los Angeles schools halt home use of district-issued iPads after students hack security restrictions - Page 2

post #41 of 110
If these students can't carry their iPads home, what's the point? And blocking YouTube is crazy. It's not all kitties in paper sacks. There are tons of great National Geographic and History Channel documentaries there.

--Michael W. Perry, My Nights with Leukemia: Caring for Children with Cancer
post #42 of 110
"Disaster!" "Bad idea!" "No place being issued to every kid%u2026!" "I told you so!"

Wow, the cynicism here, of all places, regarding the advancements of tech in schools is unbelievable!

How about, "New technology rolling out, excellent potential for students and educators alike, but NEW, so naturally a few wrinkles to work out%u2026"?

I applaud LAUSD for being forward thinking, for recognizing both the potential and opportunities represented by giving an iPad to every student.

They'll work out the wrinkles. I'm all for giving iOS a greater role in our education system. It really is a no-brainer. Just fix these relatively minor issues and move forward. It's 99% upside when you look at the bigger picture.
post #43 of 110
The only way to guarantee that there will be no infringements is to keep it open. Much cheaper, too. I just don't see the problem here.
post #44 of 110
Given the number of sale of iPads to the district it seems like Apple could provide someone to instruct them how to lock it down.
However, at the end of the day it is the district's responsibility.
post #45 of 110

This is certainly issue with LA School District IT. But of course, media will take it to the other extreme. I can just see - The Wall Street will read too much into this and make a big (and obviously uneducated) deal tomorrow.

post #46 of 110
Why are they blocking those apps, that is the mistake.
post #47 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

Why are they blocking those apps, that is the mistake.

The school district bought the iPads to replace books and provide additional methods of instruction. They aren't giving them toys to play with anyway they want to. People need to understand this and the ways the school district wants them used. This isn't a free for all. If the students don't feel like following instructions and acceptable use, they can buy their own devices and do whatever they want to with them. Otherwise follow the program.
post #48 of 110

I've never understood why we can't have a ".porn" URL address for everything that is not a "granite" breast sculpted in the 1st century and everything else be .com, org., etc.

 

With one simple setting all phones, tablets, PC's in all places of business, all libraries, schools and parents could stop their workers/patrons/students/children from viewing "bad" stuff.

 

YouTube/Google would have to comply. It would even help Android! :)

post #49 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo2222 View Post

Given the number of sale of iPads to the district it seems like Apple could provide someone to instruct them how to lock it down.
However, at the end of the day it is the district's responsibility.

 

Bingo! You said in two sentences what I tried to say in 27 sentences! Good show! :)

post #50 of 110

Perhaps an "under 18, Only" App store? Or an "Educational, Only" App Store? :)

post #51 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowney View Post

Most of these kids have six other ways to get to the same content. So how exactly are K-12 schools teaching students how to cope with the real world by pretending it doesn't exist? This is more about avoiding political embarrassment than preparing youth to cope with the digital world.

 

Given that there will be 650k iPads in the hands of kids and their parents I would say it's not political, but rather the district trying to not get sued for exposing kids to adult content.  With that many families involved you can be assured that there will be several who are looking for a lawsuit payout any way they can get one.  If there was no attempt to lock the iPads down there would have been a lawsuit from day one.

 

Unfortunately now that it has been shown the the district did an inadequate job of blocking access there will probably be a lawsuit anyway.

post #52 of 110
At least the school is trying. Where my relatives go to school they just give the iPads to the kids with no restrictions or supervision whatsoever. Talk about irresponsible. It creates tons of unnecessary headache for parents and teachers, not to mention lots of opportunity for immature students to get into trouble.
But I suppose with the spirit of acceptance that is so prevalent today, most parents think it is fine for their children to be involved in sexting apps such as Snapchat. And don't tell me it's not a sexting app, it was inspired by the Anthony Wiener scandal. Hmmm.
post #53 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by IThinkIjustSaid View Post

I predicted this would be a disaster before it started. The district is surprised. I'm not.
Gee, I guess you're just smarter than everyone else. Easy to criticize; harder to come up with solutions. Try that for a change.
post #54 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

Why are they blocking those apps, that is the mistake.

 

Kid takes school issued iPad home. Kid meets pedophile predator on Facebook or Google+ or some other social media site. Kid gets molested or goes missing. Parents sue school district. It's the American way.

post #55 of 110
If they are using a MDM suite of any value, then this is just a misconfiguration; easily remedied. I manage 2000 iPads with MobileIron and this type of bypass is not possible without triggering an alert, at which point they force the offending student to swap out the iPad for another one and apply appropriate disciplinary measures.
post #56 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

If this is a true "one laptop per student" type of program, there SHOULD be NO restrictions at all on the thing...I can understand having restrictions if this is a lab device, but from what it looks like, these were being distributed to many students who could not afford a home computer...and of course, they are going to want connectivity and social networking, etc...when they are at home. It just sounds ridiculous to try a take-home program like this and put restrictive access profiles and filters on the device.

Just my opinion. When I was that age I had a PowerMac and a PowerBook, and a fast cable modem to enjoy it all....in like 1997.
Except that if the kids do something inappropriate with them, the school gets blamed for not restricting them. Those are the conditions that schools have to work under.
post #57 of 110
Anyone know what device management solution was in place [or not?]
post #58 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by denobin View Post

Except that if the kids do something inappropriate with them, the school gets blamed for not restricting them. Those are the conditions that schools have to work under.
In this case the schools need to learn to manage their expectations. Supplying iPads but restricting their use is unreasonable for the simple reason that it is bound to fail.
post #59 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Best evidence yet that this technology has no place being issued to every student. Keep a lid on it in the school lab. Not so much because it doesn't have a legitimate use but because the little bastards can't be trusted. And their parents are probably no better. Old dad probably would be on xhamster.com with the kid's iPad.

At least that's a biology web site isn't it?
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #60 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

The blame is on the IT managers not the students. Proper configuration of an MDM system would have kept them out. The MDM has a separate admin password for all system changes. This is inexcusable. I'd bet the IT managers and techs (if they had any) never read the manuals.

What manual? I thought Apple devices were so simple that a 6 yr old could use them, so then a trained IT guy should've been a grand master at setting it correctly.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #61 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by denobin View Post

Gee, I guess you're just smarter than everyone else. Easy to criticize; harder to come up with solutions. Try that for a change.

This problem should've been thought of beforehand and a solution found. It's called scenario planning.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #62 of 110

Just wondering...

Even if the LAUSD implements smarter restrictions on the iPads, I don't think there's anything stopping any student from doing the following:

 

1. Take iPad home

2. Create backup of restricted iPad in iTunes

3. Install a fresh copy of iOS7 (with no restrictions).

 

When the time comes to return the device...

 

4. Restore iPad from backup. (With no evidence of hacking)

 

Does any type of security exist that could stop this from working? I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work.

post #63 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What responsibility is this of Apple’s?

None but if they want other school districts to purchase iPads it behooves them to help out.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #64 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

What manual? I thought Apple devices were so simple that a 6 yr old could use them, so then a trained IT guy should've been a grand master at setting it correctly.

Your sarcastic comments don't deserve a response but I'm going to educate you since you obviously missed several years of school. This project is huge. It's not a simple single user setup. Apple has manuals for educational and business installations because they are required for proper operation of large systems. They also have trained system engineers that service multiple sites (I know this because I know several of them). A project this size would have included configuration assistance so someone messed up. If you would spend some time on Apple's website you would have found the basic manuals.
post #65 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

Your sarcastic comments don't deserve a response but I'm going to educate you since you obviously missed several years of school. This project is huge. It's not a simple single user setup. Apple has manuals for educational and business installations because they are required for proper operation of large systems. They also have trained system engineers that service multiple sites (I know this because I know several of them). A project this size would have included configuration assistance so someone messed up. If you would spend some time on Apple's website you would have found the basic manuals.

Ok I deserved that, but thanks for the info. I did not know that but I did find it hard to believe that Apple didn't assist in some way setting up these iPads. Now the question remains is who messed up.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #66 of 110
Good on the students. Demonstrates ingenuity. Grade: A
post #67 of 110
Some of the restrictions are just silly. The district should have the ability to prevent district apps from being deleted, and to allow their apps to be updated. But, no Facebook -- silly. No Youtube? -- silly. Such restricts are censorship of the worst kind, especially for kids interested in getting information which would help their education.

There are math sites, science sites, videos by scientists explaining and demonstrating experiments that would never be done at their school. Certainly kids will abuse these resources (whatever "abuse" means), but the Districts idea of restricting these sites tell me the educators (at least the administrators), don't have the intellectual curiosity that would be the characteristic of an active learner.
post #68 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Best evidence yet that this technology has no place being issued to every student. Keep a lid on it in the school lab. Not so much because it doesn't have a legitimate use but because the little bastards can't be trusted. And their parents are probably no better. Old dad probably would be on xhamster.com with the kid's iPad.

Not at all.

What they need is a clear cut acceptable use policy such that the students catch doing this get in school suspension, revoking of privileges like being in sports teams and their right to home use revoked (if not access to an iPad all together at this point). And yes it should be all 3 if not more to show them the severity of the situation.

Let those that can behave continue behaving.

And then the IT folks need to do more research on how to secure these devices. Including blocking restores etc. And asking Apple to put a service restriction on all the serials so that kids can't go into an apple store and have them worked on. LAUSD is a big enough district they likely have an in house contract to so their own service and if they don't they should.
post #69 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Some of the restrictions are just silly. The district should have the ability to prevent district apps from being deleted, and to allow their apps to be updated. But, no Facebook -- silly. No Youtube? -- silly. Such restricts are censorship of the worst kind, especially for kids interested in getting information which would help their education.

There are math sites, science sites, videos by scientists explaining and demonstrating experiments that would never be done at their school. Certainly kids will abuse these resources (whatever "abuse" means), but the Districts idea of restricting these sites tell me the educators (at least the administrators), don't have the intellectual curiosity that would be the characteristic of an active learner.

I'd say Facebook is left out because that's where much of cyber bullying takes place and a school district wouldn't want to accused of facilitating it. A class specific app in which the students can chat with each other as well as the teacher/professor would be much more helpful than Facebook.

An educational video worth anything should be made into a podcast.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #70 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Severity? Really? Why should you be allowed to access anything but education material on an education device? 

Also, I think Apple should step in here. NOT because it is their responsibility, but because they want more education sales and therefore should help resolve these issues. Apple should easily be able to Kiosk the iPads for educational use. 

Apply created Configurator etc for these folks. That's really as far as they need to go. Because as you say, it's not their responsibility.
post #71 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

If this is a true "one laptop per student" type of program, there SHOULD be NO restrictions at all on the thing

These are district property same as the books they replaced. And purchased with bond money which requires restrictions to eliminate or at least restrict not school related activities.
post #72 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo2222 View Post

Given the number of sale of iPads to the district it seems like Apple could provide someone to instruct them how to lock it down.
.

There's all kinds of documentation on how to do this. And an app to help do it. Sort of Apple opening up a special store just to handle all this for the district there is not much else they can do
post #73 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosujin View Post

Just wondering...
Even if the LAUSD implements smarter restrictions on the iPads, I don't think there's anything stopping any student from doing the following:

1. Take iPad home
2. Create backup of restricted iPad in iTunes
3. Install a fresh copy of iOS7 (with no restrictions).

When the time comes to return the device...

4. Restore iPad from backup. (With no evidence of hacking)

Does any type of security exist that could stop this from working? I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work.

MDM programs can remove the resets from onboard and restrict syncing etc if done right.

Activation lock can also be a factor if these are on iOS 7 and the kiddies don't know the iCloud password.
post #74 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

If this is a true "one laptop per student" type of program, there SHOULD be NO restrictions at all on the thing...I can understand having restrictions if this is a lab device, but from what it looks like, these were being distributed to many students who could not afford a home computer...and of course, they are going to want connectivity and social networking, etc...when they are at home. It just sounds ridiculous to try a take-home program like this and put restrictive access profiles and filters on the device.

Just my opinion. When I was that age I had a PowerMac and a PowerBook, and a fast cable modem to enjoy it all....in like 1997.

Those laptops are given to the kids, these iPads are being lent out, big difference.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #75 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I'd say Facebook is left out because that's where much of cyber bullying takes place and a school district wouldn't want to accused of facilitating it. A class specific app in which the students can chat with each other as well as the teacher/professor would be much more helpful than Facebook.

An educational video worth anything should be made into a podcast.

 

Educational videos are available as they are. Educational videos worth anything should be podcast misses an important point -- educational videos worth anything are on Youtube, Vimeo, from university websites, from iTunes U, on Facebook -- that is, reality trumps your opinion. 

post #76 of 110

Is everyone here serious about "security" on an iPad? There is no such thing. It's not Apple's intent to "lock things down". The school district just didn't do their homework or planning. Or someone just did it to get it on their resume. I'm surprised it took a week..

 

iPad Security Thread

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3920965?start=0&tstart=0

post #77 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Educational videos are available as they are. Educational videos worth anything should be podcast misses an important point -- educational videos worth anything are on Youtube, Vimeo, from university websites, from iTunes U, on Facebook -- that is, reality trumps your opinion. 

But there are also twerking videos amongst other inappropriate material on YouTube and Vimeo. School districts want to protect themselves from any possible misuse of their property.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #78 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by brians View Post

If only they had used Chromebooks! It would have been cheaper per student, and they would have avoided this fiasco because none of the students would have ever used them.

 

Fixed that for you.

post #79 of 110

You cannot hide or prevent someone from deleting a third party MDM profile.  They use AirWatch and all someone has to do is hit delete and its gone...with it all the restrictions that prevent access to safari, YouTube, etc.  Once the profile has been killed and they are off of the district filtered internet access, they can surf and download whatever they want.  They can also sign in to any iTunes account they want and download what ever they want.  

post #80 of 110

hahaha, this is so very true.  Those things are garbage!

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