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Delta Airlines to distribute Surface 2 to pilots after iPad trial - Page 2

post #41 of 163
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Don't rule out Tesla. It was not Android in the end. Just Linux.

Correct. It's Mercedes you need to hate on. And Audi. And Hyundai. Well, and Tesla a little bit.
I think you need to pony up some facts. As far as I know there any no shipping ivi systems running Android. Try again? Plenty of aftermarket systems however, especially for the China market where it is the driving part that is the driver distraction and not the ivi system.
Edited by snova - 9/27/13 at 12:19pm
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post #42 of 163

For emergency landing instructions, just pull out the invisible to know where it is "charms menu"

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post #43 of 163

That's not the same Delta Airline of Flight 191 fame that crashed due to pilot error, is it?

post #44 of 163

That's what the MS iPad buy-back program was for. They lured the Delta Engineers into picking Surface Tablets by promising them a free iPad.

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post #45 of 163

I can only imagine what the pre-flight safety lecture will be like now ... all that dancing and keyboard clicking, ugh.

post #46 of 163

Microsoft:  For every 10 Windows license, you get a free Surface... and they run Windows (RT) apps***

IT Manager:  Sounds good to me.

post #47 of 163

I hope they turn these devices off during take-offs and landings  :)

post #48 of 163
This will give the blue screen of death a whole new level of impact.
post #49 of 163

It’s simple.

 

Delta has to pay to get iPads.

Delta was paid to get Surfaces.

 

Nothing but the basest corporate logic here.

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #50 of 163

I think this could work well in Apple's favor.

 

A little headline now for Microsoft... HUGE headline later should Delta ditch the Surface and switch to iPads.

post #51 of 163
Sounds like Bill & Company just cut someone a big check.

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post #52 of 163
Good one!1oyvey.gif
post #53 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

It’s simple.

 

Delta has to pay to get iPads.

Delta was paid to get Surfaces.

 

Nothing but the basest corporate logic here.

 

you forgot about Microsoft get free advertising.

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post #54 of 163
Seriously though, since the surface is running on Windows 8, I'd be worried that it would crash, and I am not joking. I work for a Cyber security company, and I see it as a fertile ground for malware that could potentially be harmful. Staying away from Delta as soon as they deploy the surface, don't want any part of it.
post #55 of 163
They tried iPads and are now standardizing on an unreleased Surface 2? That's either a massive condemnation of iPad, or a really obvious indicator of a Microsoft deal that sounds like their computer vendor deals of the 90s.
post #56 of 163
PS: these are manual carriers, not integrated systems. No matter what device they use, there's no crashing caused by them (unless they get into a serious issue requiring manuals to be relied upon in a critical moment).
post #57 of 163

Back to FUD. Both IBM and MS practiced that sales technique for years, quite successfully. I'd bet Delta's IT department had no say on going to the Surface. It was the CEO, and the kickbacks went into the CEO's pocket.

post #58 of 163

So they did a trial with iPads. Sounds reasonable. But then they adopt Surface with no trial period? Sounds fishy.

 

Where is the due diligence? Is the yet to be released Surface 2 even approved by the FAA?

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post #59 of 163

Love it. First United tosses guitars and a song goes viral. Now Delta pilots will be tossing Surface 2s to a new tune.

Can hardly wait. :D

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post #60 of 163
It will take two years to be fully operational. They will have plenty of time to get it right. Also theft will not be problem. However, by the end of this year Apple will have 64 bit processor, longer battery life, plus weight reduction on their new iPad.
post #61 of 163

How many copies of the paper manual did they have on board? 

 

40 pound manual vs about 1.5 pounds per tablet times (depending on the size of the plane and number of crew) 3 = 7.5 pounds for company issue devices - plus another 7.5 pounds if each bring their own = 15 pounds or 25 pounds saved. While I am sure that adds up if you KNOW that you will be carrying 25 pounds less on EVERY flight EVERY time - but it seems to me that even considering only a single example of a given aircraft on the same route on the same day each week the variation in weigh from flight to flight is likely greater than 25 pounds. 

 

To me I would think that a much better selling point is that the electronic version would be far easier to keep up to date and thus reduce the overall cost involved in the logistics of printing and distributing and updating and disposing of paper copies as well as possibly making them easier to use meaning potential savings in time and pilot distraction. 

post #62 of 163
This is a new tactic by corporate America popping up everywhere: you can have a company issued device, or BYOD.

What corporations discovered is that if "company issued device" is the least desired device of its kind everyone is going to BYOD.

My company does that with phones: you can get a low end Blackberry for the asking. Guess what: everyone just brings their iPhones and Androids. The company has saved millions of dollars on phone and data plans.

So the only question Delta had to answer was, "What tablet can we offer that is so undesirable that we won't be able to give them away for free."

There's really one company making a tablet that undesirable right now: Microsoft.

I'm not commenting on whether Surface is good or bad - it's probably an ok tablet in some respects. It's just that no one cares. Delta knows this and will save millions of dollars because of this tactic.

Microsoft loves it because even if Delta calls them says "not a single pilot actually wants a free Surface" they just landed a marketing coup.
post #63 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeSun View Post

....I will travel United anytime, I hope they deploy iPads.

 

They already have ... every pilot in the airline has been issued a company iPad (a year ago.)

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post #64 of 163

All joking aside,

 

This is really weird on many levels and I serious question the reporting by Paul Thurrott on this.

 

1) Tablets are still banned from use during take-off and landing, unless an airline has specifically gone through a very long and rigorous testing procedure with each model of aircraft it intends to use the tablet with.  iPads have spent many months doing this for various aircraft.

 

2) There's hardly any relevant software for pilots to use on the Surface 2.  iPads pretty much have it all.  It's not just a question of having a few apps versus bazillions, it's a question of not having any of the apps you need in a cockpit available for the platform.

 

3) They already have a BYOD program.  Who today goes from a BYOD program to a single-vendor program with not just an extremely low market share, but one with serious viability issues?

 

4) Why would they be committing to a device that hasn't even launched on the market yet?

 

5) $$$... Yes, sure Microsoft could be giving Delta all of the tablets, but that doesn't help Delta at all because pilots would still need to lug around all the weight and they'd need to pay for all the paper updates to things that there are no apps for on the Surface 2.  In other words, pilots would take the Surface 2 and stow it away (or not even bring it), and then still have the need for either paper or an iPad.  Free Surface tablets end up costing Delta money, it's not a real gift.  Microsoft would need to pay Delta additional money to continue to rely on paper.

post #65 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post
...and don't call me Shirley

GadgetCanadaV2, what can you make out of this?

post #66 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacopille View Post

This is a new tactic by corporate America popping up everywhere: you can have a company issued device, or BYOD.

What corporations discovered is that if "company issued device" is the least desired device of its kind everyone is going to BYOD.

My company does that with phones: you can get a low end Blackberry for the asking. Guess what: everyone just brings their iPhones and Androids. The company has saved millions of dollars on phone and data plans.

So the only question Delta had to answer was, "What tablet can we offer that is so undesirable that we won't be able to give them away for free."

There's really one company making a tablet that undesirable right now: Microsoft.

I'm not commenting on whether Surface is good or bad - it's probably an ok tablet in some respects. It's just that no one cares. Delta knows this and will save millions of dollars because of this tactic.

Microsoft loves it because even if Delta calls them says "not a single pilot actually wants a free Surface" they just landed a marketing coup.

 

MIght have to remove my tin foil hat for a moment, but yeah, I can see how that works, good ole reverse psychology - and even if they don't issue a single one - MS can still claim that they remain the Corporate Standard for Delta and no we cannot disclose the number in use without violating the privacy terms of our agreement. 

post #67 of 163
Originally Posted by snova View Post

you forgot about Microsoft get free advertising.

 

It’s not really free if they’re paying the company to take Surfaces off their hands, yeah?

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #68 of 163
All I have to say is my last experience with Windows was a 50% monthly catastrophic crash rate. I hope Delta's is better.
post #69 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

This is good news! I always did wonder how Pilots made it to their final destination without Microsoft Office¿

 

Why on earth would they choose Surface RT? Devices that haven't even been released yet? Just how stable are these tablets going to be?

 

I'm guessing Microsoft either gave them away or gave Delta a HUGE discount just for the sake of media exposure.

 

They had to do SOMETHING with that 900M in unsold product.

post #70 of 163

This will last only until the next contract negotiation between Delta and the pilot's union -- if the MS Surface remains in production that long.

Mac user since August 1983.
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post #71 of 163

DELTA = Don't Even Leave The Airport

 

:lol:

post #72 of 163
Let's wait and see if Surface is even around two years from now, by the the time it is fully deployed.
post #73 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

This is a two year project. Who knows what will happen in the end.

 

If it's Delta's inventory, it will be Surface2 for the entire duration, unless there is an 'incident' that the FAA/NTSB called out the tablet as a contributing factor.    SOPs require Standard Operating Parts.

post #74 of 163
Surface 2: now with two-position kickback.

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post #75 of 163

Maybe the pilots were having too much fun (distraction) with the iPads.  They need the pilots to concentrate on flying instead of playing on the iPads :-)

post #76 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post
 

How many copies of the paper manual did they have on board? 

 

40 pound manual vs about 1.5 pounds per tablet times (depending on the size of the plane and number of crew) 3 = 7.5 pounds for company issue devices - plus another 7.5 pounds if each bring their own = 15 pounds or 25 pounds saved. While I am sure that adds up if you KNOW that you will be carrying 25 pounds less on EVERY flight EVERY time - but it seems to me that even considering only a single example of a given aircraft on the same route on the same day each week the variation in weigh from flight to flight is likely greater than 25 pounds. 

 

To me I would think that a much better selling point is that the electronic version would be far easier to keep up to date and thus reduce the overall cost involved in the logistics of printing and distributing and updating and disposing of paper copies as well as possibly making them easier to use meaning potential savings in time and pilot distraction. 

 

figure 2 copies per plane.

 

you're correct… the trees airlines kill is rainforest shrinking.   

 

Airlines know that every pound is worth so many gallons per mile.  pound.   while I can't help when 340lb Uncle Louie flies to Amsterdam, I can control the number of pillows, blankets, types of pop, and yes, maps, nav charts, airport layouts, and weather updates.   50 lbs is a lot, and can be replaced with revenue generating cargo (mail, lobster, whatever… now that planes are flying full… 50lbs of mail can be bumped occasionally if the standard math [it's now down to gender and age, since the airlines collect that] says that the plane is below optimal flight weight).   

 

What if they don't have mail or whatever…  Then they may add extra fuel (if the location's spot price is lower than the next airport).   The most valuable cargo will be put on that plane.

post #77 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post
 

All joking aside,

 

This is really weird on many levels and I serious question the reporting by Paul Thurrott on this.

 

1) Tablets are still banned from use during take-off and landing, unless an airline has specifically gone through a very long and rigorous testing procedure with each model of aircraft it intends to use the tablet with.  iPads have spent many months doing this for various aircraft.

 

2) There's hardly any relevant software for pilots to use on the Surface 2.  iPads pretty much have it all.  It's not just a question of having a few apps versus bazillions, it's a question of not having any of the apps you need in a cockpit available for the platform.

 

3) They already have a BYOD program.  Who today goes from a BYOD program to a single-vendor program with not just an extremely low market share, but one with serious viability issues?

 

4) Why would they be committing to a device that hasn't even launched on the market yet?

 

5) $$$... Yes, sure Microsoft could be giving Delta all of the tablets, but that doesn't help Delta at all because pilots would still need to lug around all the weight and they'd need to pay for all the paper updates to things that there are no apps for on the Surface 2.  In other words, pilots would take the Surface 2 and stow it away (or not even bring it), and then still have the need for either paper or an iPad.  Free Surface tablets end up costing Delta money, it's not a real gift.  Microsoft would need to pay Delta additional money to continue to rely on paper.

 

1> ... MS based tablets have also been through that process.. not the Surface2, but there are several windows-based products that were never really available at the consumer level that were used in Airlines.

 

2> ... Related to #1... EVERY bit of software they need is ALREADY available for Windows OS.  They've been around for years.  That is a non-issue.

 

3> ... In the heavily regulated industries , like airlines, a single-vendor solution is actually much easier to manage than BYOD.

 

4> ... That's the big one in your list... and the one that makes me think MS is GIVING them the hardware.

 

5> ... see #2.

From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #78 of 163
What does BSOD mean?
post #79 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I think you need to pony up some facts. As far as I know there any no shipping ivi systems running Android. Try again? Plenty of aftermarket systems however, especially for the China market where it is the driving part that is the driver distraction and not the ivi system.
They're all integrating Google Maps and search services.
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post #80 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeSun View Post

....I will travel United anytime, I hope they deploy iPads.

 

They already have ... every pilot in the airline has been issued a company iPad (a year ago.)

 

unlike Delta who made pilots bring their own.   Par for the course with Delta.. cheapskates. 


Edited by snova - 9/27/13 at 2:13pm
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