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Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned - Page 3

post #81 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Average Sales Price is approaching iPads? Are there even android tablets that sell for $329 or more?

 

The Sony Xperia Z was European tablet of the year and I think lists for $499 to $599 depending upon the model.

post #82 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

First impressions are very important. Releasing something so half baked (my opinion) was a mistake. For example they did not release Mavericks just because the iMacs were refreshed. For some reason they are fixated on a new iPhone having a new OS. Personally I think iOS 7 design cues are ill conceived regardless of whether it was technically release ready or not.

Maybe your personal view is not in harmony with the majority of everyone else's. Everyone I know loves iOS7. There, I have anecdote evidence too.

In the same vein, I could speculate how many people Apple would lose because of the stale iOS 6 had they kept the look.

Also, if Apple had released a new phone without a new OS, they'd have been skewered.
post #83 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

First impressions are very important. Releasing something so half baked (my opinion) was a mistake. For example they did not release Mavericks just because the iMacs were refreshed. For some reason they are fixated on a new iPhone having a new OS. Personally I think iOS 7 design cues are ill conceived regardless of whether it was technically release ready or not.
Apple is waiting to release Mavericks with either new rMBP or Mac Pro. You might think iOS 7 is half baked. I don't. And I know a lot of people who upgraded and said to me it's like they have a new phone. I'm not suggesting iOS 7 is perfect and doesn't have any flaws But it doesn't bother me that Apple released something that wasn't perfect. Because I know it's the beginning and I know it can become something great. I also know people hate change. It's not like it hasn't happened before, like when Apple first released OS X. Honestly I don't think there is anything so awful in iOS 7 that it will make general non techie consumers bolt to Android or Windows Phone.
post #84 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

Perhaps. After all, a polished turd is really no better than a plain one.
Have you used it?
post #85 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

iOS 7 has been out only one week. There may be surveys but the long term adoption or lack there of will not be evident for a year or so as carrier contracts expire. Down grading to iOS 6 is not an option. If you don't like it you are stuck until you can get out of your contract.

And BYW there was a huge revolt concerning 10.0. It was terrible and nothing worked but fortunately they made classic available to help with the transition. Eventually it was improved and I hope the same can be said for iOS 7+

10.0 wasn't meant for general consumption. Jobs even said so. That said the color scheme of OS X didn't scare people away.

Oh and the vast majority of things work on iOS 7.

You don't think Apple will constantly improve iOS 7? There is no "hope" for that. It's damn guaranteed.
post #86 of 204

According to IHS estimates the 16 GB memory in iPhone 5S costs Apple $10.  The 32 GB costs $20.  64 GB $30.  But Apple adds $100 for a 32 GB iPhone 5S and $200 for 64 GB.  The profit margin for the memory is much higher than the iPhone as a whole.  I believe there is high desire for iPhone/iPad users to go for larger memory.  This desire is being suppressed by the unnecessary cost to upgrade.  I think Apple is losing good will to its users because of this price difference.  And this is costing Apple sales.  I think Apple should add $50 and $100 to the memory upgrades in the coming new iPads.  Apple will still get 80% profit margin for 32 GB and 64 GB.  This will immediately made the iPads very competitive wrt Android tablets without any significant new hardware. And the Android manufacturers will find very difficult to match Apple.  

post #87 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

Maybe your personal view is not in harmony with the majority of everyone else's. Everyone I know loves iOS7. There, I have anecdote evidence too.

In the same vein, I could speculate how many people Apple would lose because of the stale iOS 6 had they kept the look.

Also, if Apple had released a new phone without a new OS, they'd have been skewered.
Tim Cook took a risk. I applaud him for being bold and doing it. I have a feeling all the hysterics around iOS 7 will die down in a month or two. By then it will be old news and the media will have something else to write about.
post #88 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

According to IHS estimates the 16 GB memory in iPhone 5S costs Apple $10.  The 32 GB costs $20.  64 GB $30.  But Apple adds $100 for a 32 GB iPhone 5S and $200 for 64 GB.  The profit margin for the memory is much higher than the iPhone as a whole.  I believe there is high desire for iPhone/iPad users to go for larger memory.  This desire is being suppressed by the unnecessary cost to upgrade.  I think Apple is losing good will to its users because of this price difference.  And this is costing Apple sales.  I think Apple should add $50 and $100 to the memory upgrades in the coming new iPads.  Apple will still get 80% profit margin for 32 GB and 64 GB.  This will immediately made the iPads very competitive wrt Android tablets without any significant new hardware. And the Android manufacturers will find very difficult to match Apple.  

Apple sold 9 MM iPhones in a weekend. How is this costing them sales?

I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't need your advice. Android is already having difficulties matching Apple. Who else is making money in tablets?
post #89 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I call BS.

The cheapest Apple tablet is $329. There are millions of Android tablets selling for under $100 and few over $329, much less the $500 or more of most iPads. There's no way in the world that the average selling price for Android tablets is even close to the average for iPads.

But what do you expect from someone called the "Media Tablets, Ultrabooks and eReaders Research Service"?

 

I don't get that either.  

 

The Surface tablets are pricey, but I wouldn't have thought they made much of an impact with their volumes.

 

Perhaps a lot of folks are buying the Android units with 32GB of memory or even LTE support?  I know the Nexus 7 with 32GB seems to sell well.

post #90 of 204
An A7 based retina mini with touch ID will dominate holiday sales, and number two will be the full size iPad.
post #91 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Apple sold 9 MM iPhones in a weekend. How is this costing them sales?

I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't need your advice. Android is already having difficulties matching Apple. Who else is making money in tablets?

 

I was using iPhone 5S as example.  But my point is directed to iPad.  I believe more memory is more useful to iPad.  

post #92 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Really? My wife and I are way past that age range and love iOS 7. Maybe you need some of those special vitamin tablets. 1wink.gif

Well i have anecdotal evidence too. I upgraded my iPad 3 and the wife upgraded her iPhone 5 and neither of us like the new interface design.

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post #93 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

For a long time I hadn't seen too many. Now I
see almost as many Android Tabs as iPads.

i still have to see someone with another tablet other than a ipad.. maybe it all depends where you live?
post #94 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Well i have anecdotal evidence too. I upgraded my iPad 3 and the wife upgraded her iPhone 5 and neither of us like the new interface design.

Fact: people hate change but after a while many come to embrace it.
post #95 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm talking about the new Kindle tablets and the 2nd gen Nexus, not cheap POS devices for China.

So what percentage of the market do these devices have?

1%, 2%, 5%, more???
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post #96 of 204
Yeah, anecdotally most older people I know don't like iOS7. My parents and their mates.

People I know don't seem to mind the new look, but I am the resident iFan and I rave about it as I love it.

I think it will be like a Facebook layout/privacy change. It will be all everyone talks about for a while and then all of a sudden no one even notices it.
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post #97 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondm16 View Post

Train impressions. If its steam, don't forget the chuff chuff sound.

See patsu's reply if you still don't understand.
post #98 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How is it that Amazon and Asus don't seem to have a problem shipping tablets with retina like (or better than retina) displays? The 2nd gen Nexus is not a thick and heavy piece of garbage with terrible battery life. It's very similar in weight to iPad mini and according to AnandTech gets about 12 hours battery life. There's no excuse for the 2nd gen mini not to have retina. And if someone throws out the term "margins" then I ask the question, is Apple a product company or a profit margin company?

IMO no retina mini this year is basically Apple handing the tablet space to the competition on a silver platter. Sorry but paying a "premium" for the iOS ecosystem and Apple customer support won't be enough. The products need to be better. And with a retina mini Apple would basically own the tablet market again.

Have you tried using an iPad mini?

There is no difference and you can't see the pixel as Sammy claimed.

I gave it up and went back to the regular iPad because it rendered all web text in small fonts.

It is the sum and not parts which makes the iPad mini a great product but if you want specs buy an android.
post #99 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I call BS.

The cheapest Apple tablet is $329. There are millions of Android tablets selling for under $100 and few over $329, much less the $500 or more of most iPads. There's no way in the world that the average selling price for Android tablets is even close to the average for iPads.

But what do you expect from someone called the "Media Tablets, Ultrabooks and eReaders Research Service"?

 

Samsung Galaxy Tab 8 and 10 are not selling cheaper than iPad and iPad mini.  Samsung sells them very well through Costco.  

post #100 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

 

The common AppleInsider consensus is that Android devices don't actually exist or sell.  Samsung makes a bunch of them and ships them out to sea, and apparently sinks them in a secret location.  Apple builds the only electronics products that people actually buy.

The shipped vs sold arguments are usually followed up by questioning the validity of the source and concluding they are 'a bunch of idiots' followed by browsing usage and 'mindshare' arguments.  Just trying to condense every thread related to Android sales into one paragraph :p

 

Sure they're selling. They just aren't making money. When you scrape the bottom of the barrel, there are no profits.

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GOA

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post #101 of 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondm16 View Post
 

 

Want to elaborate?

He means that Android tablets are all about quantity, where as iPads are about quality. Sell a tablet worth $100, you will undoubtedly gain an amazing market. But what's missing from that market is an amazing product that acutally works - that is what iPad is.

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post #102 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio View Post

I don't think anyone is saying that Apple is doomed. But this follows the trend in smartphones, where Apple is losing their dominant marketshare. I think it is relevant not to the different Android manufacturers, but to the two platforms as a whole: which platform/ecosystem will be dominant, Apple's or Androids? I'd like to hear your opinion on what consequences are if Android is the dominant platform. Will the developers bring their A game to it? Will they develop for Android first and Apple second? (and Windows third?). 

Outside of maybe a qtr or two, Apple has rarely been dominant in smartphone market share. Most devs still develop for iPhone first even though Android is #1 in shipments. Devs also make more money on iOS.
post #103 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Well i have anecdotal evidence too. I upgraded my iPad 3 and the wife upgraded her iPhone 5 and neither of us like the new interface design.

Fact: people hate change but after a while many come to embrace it.

After much complaining she settled on: "No big deal, I just think it is frugly" (exact quote). Personally I find it much more objectionable than she does.


Edited by mstone - 9/28/13 at 10:06pm

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post #104 of 204
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike54 View Post

Maybe the main reason is that iOS is dependant on pixel size for the apps which requires developer work, whereas Android can auto-scale up to a higher res/bigger screen? 

Nope.
post #105 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I thought iOS 7 was resolution independent? Is that not the case?

Doesn't work like this. The grid (iOS) has always been 1024x768. Retina means 4 pixel in one pixel space, more quality. People only concern pixel clearly never done any development work. The myth about android auto scaling ... Find me one document actually talk about it. nope Android so-called auto scaling is just like you blow up a 10 pixel gif to fit a 1920x1080 screen - looks like crap.
post #106 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

Have you tried using an iPad mini?

There is no difference and you can't see the pixel as Sammy claimed.

I gave it up and went back to the regular iPad because it rendered all web text in small fonts.

It is the sum and not parts which makes the iPad mini a great product but if you want specs buy an android.
Yes I've used a mini and yes I think the display is inferior. So retina display is now considered a "spec"? I guess then if/when Apple announces a retina mini they won't mention the retina part because only Android buyers care about "specs". That's probably why Apple didn't mention iPhone 5S was 64-bit. Just more "specs" only Android users care about. 1wink.gif
post #107 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentinterest View Post

An A7 based retina mini with touch ID will dominate holiday sales, and number two will be the full size iPad.
Yes, yes yes. This would be a killer product. A non-retina mini with A6 chip would just be milking consumers for another year.
post #108 of 204
It's the cheap $100 Big Lots tabs that boost those Android sales. Awful, cheap tablets that are two to four OS versions back.
post #109 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

That is certainly a possibility, but I was thinking more along the lines of Android. I only upgraded one iPad to iOS 7 and I am very disappointed with the new interface. I am in a quandary what to do with my other iOS devices. Although I like most of the new features, I hate the interface theme.

 

Let go of your anger. Hate only leads to The Dark Side (Android).

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post #110 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Outside of maybe a qtr or two, Apple has rarely been dominant in smartphone market share. Most devs still develop for iPhone first even though Android is #1 in shipments. Devs also make more money on iOS.

 

Google generates more revenue from iOS than they do from Android.

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post #111 of 204
WRT the price of storage upgrades on the iPad and iPhone: If MS had the same price structure on the Surface—scratch that, they do—that would be gouging. Apple uses such a huge fraction of the world supply of flash memory that they have to discourage upgrades by rationing through price.

If they suddenly reduced the cost of each storage upgrade, or abruptly doubled capacity in their whole line, like everybody keeps urging them to, they would have to essentially corner the market. In addition to being investigated by various governments, and pilloried in the press, the marginal price would soar completely out of sight.

Believe me, they know what they're doing, but laying it out in so many words would be worse than simply being accused of price-gouging. Only when the supply expands to cover the resulting need could they increase the storage/price ratio in their units. Of course, this is a classic chicken-and-egg paradox, since Apple is the 800-pound gorilla in the flash market.

ETA: Plus, I think these estimates of $10 for 16 GB of storage are confusing the cheap crap flash memory that's used in those thumb drives you bought at Staples (and in those $49 Android tablets) with the high-quality (and ruinously expensive) flash memory that's used in iOS devices and computer SSDs.
Edited by Mac-sochist - 9/28/13 at 11:17pm
post #112 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is certainly a possibility, but I was thinking more along the lines of Android. I only upgraded one iPad to iOS 7 and I am very disappointed with the new interface. I am in a quandary what to do with my other iOS devices. Although I like most of the new features, I hate the interface theme.

They will always be people who love felt and suede and I don't see Apple changing direction for the design of their iOS 7.

As you said they are targeted at the young and for your information they are many young at heart too.
post #113 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I see your point but when you look at it from the other side, one could argue that Apple's profit from iPad sales exceeds all other tablet manufacturers combined.

It makes no sense to reverse the equation when there are no profits on the competitor's side.  

How do we sell below cost? We make it up in volume!

Volume doesn't work when a product is not selling.

Now you know why Amazon at time lose money and make very little profits.

Btw it is not because they are reinvesting their money. To let stocks sit in the warehouses cost money, a lot of it.
post #114 of 204

Oh, is this the same ABI Research that ran a headline back in January 2013 that read, "ABI Research Forecasts 45 Million Windows Phone and 20 Million BlackBerry 10 Smartphones in Active Use at Year-end"

 

Yeah, that one.

post #115 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Yes I've used a mini and yes I think the display is inferior. So retina display is now considered a "spec"? I guess then if/when Apple announces a retina mini they won't mention the retina part because only Android buyers care about "specs". That's probably why Apple didn't mention iPhone 5S was 64-bit. Just more "specs" only Android users care about. 1wink.gif
If you want to call it 'spec' by all means.
As I said if you want more specs go android as you said the nexus 7 has 12 hour of battery life.
post #116 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
 

Maybe the main reason is that iOS is dependant on pixel size for the apps which requires developer work, whereas Android can auto-scale up to a higher res/bigger screen? 

 

Please, don't talk about things you obviously don't know anything about. Scaling is not taken for granted, there are different screen ratios, that make deal especially with images and screen organization, image sizes are not easy to deal with and can be distorted in pixel-play stretching and this all coms with CPU/GPU Battery cost.

post #117 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I thought iOS 7 was resolution independent? Is that not the case?

 

Point me to the site where such nonsense in written, please :)

post #118 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrance View Post

I'm waiting for the retina mini myself. I wonder if Apple will ever add a USB port to their iPad line. It would sure open it up to be a lot more useful.

WiFi over USB. For those living in the past, like you, there is this:
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post #119 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

IMO Apple needs to bail on the hideous iOS color scheme, zooming motion and translucency or they are going to alienate their core target market. If they are looking to appeal to the pre-teen, tweerer, and teen market then the new interface makes complete sense. But to middle age adults who have been their main customer demographic since the introduction of the iPhone, there is not much appreciation for the latest interface design. I predict either a radical reversal of interface design or a radical abandonment of iOS devices by the 30-50 year-old adult market segment .

 

Your argument is that people aged 30 to 50 are going to switch mobile platforms...because of a color scheme?

post #120 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Well i have anecdotal evidence too. I upgraded my iPad 3 and the wife upgraded her iPhone 5 and neither of us like the new interface design.

 

Two people not liking a product advertised to hundreds of millions is "anecdotal evidence"....of what?

 

The Anthropic Principle: familiarize yourself with this concept.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

That is certainly a possibility, but I was thinking more along the lines of Android. I only upgraded one iPad to iOS 7 and I am very disappointed with the new interface. I am in a quandary what to do with my other iOS devices. Although I like most of the new features, I hate the interface theme.

 

A quandary...over a few native apps with new colors and translucence effects? Are you going to be okay?


Edited by Sol77 - 9/29/13 at 4:36am
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