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Obama, Sebelius compare Apple's iOS 7 launch to Healthcare.gov rollout issues - Page 2

post #41 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

 

I truly wish you'd stop with your right-wing/Tea-Party talking points crap on this forum.

 

Care to explain precisely what evidence you have for why Obamacare is a 'disaster'? Actual evidence, not stuff culled from maroons from the TP like Ted Cruz and Fox/Limbaugh...

 

I have yet to deal with the government that in the end I didn't walk away shaking my head 'no'!

 

How about YOU provide evidence of a government program that actually works, doesn't have glitches, doesn't require ton of paperwork or invasive bureaucratic QnA's, no fraud or abuse and that people are actually happy to be on such a program?

 

I'm TEA Party - you calling me a maroon?!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #42 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post
 

 

For starters, being FORCED to buy a product or service from the government! 

A private insurer will suffice, but yes if you don't get insurance, you will be fined--not so much at first, but a lot in a few years.

 

For middle-income and below, the insurance is not generally affordable, even after subsidies.

 

It doesn't help that the insurance companies vary across the 50 states, are allowed to be for-profit entities, and are allowed to increase premiums so much each year, but that's what you get when you have a President that never really thought about the issues until shortly before election.

post #43 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by muadibe View Post


Many people with your mindset opposed Medicare when it was first implemented, yet here it is today, still. The Affordable Healthcare Act will do the same. Ironically, at some point in the future, if not already, you or members of your family will receive the benefits of this law.

History will look back and include you with the group of people who decided people less fortunate should not have healthcare. What is different than in the case of Medicare, is that there is a history of all the negative comments people were making. You will never be able to say, oh, I was for that ,law.

Hope you sleep well at night knowing you have healthcare and others don't. Must make you feel very superior.

 

 You drank the kool aid.  EVERYONE has health care already.   ANYONE can walk in a hospital and get health care.     I am not superior, I just think for myself, work for myself, provide for myself and my family.   I don't rely and handouts.  I can read history, I can see what other countries do with their socialized medicine.   If you think socialism works, you are living in a hole head first. Socialism is only good for the power hungry in power.

 

You got your say, I got mine, lets agree to just disagree because I am not going to get in a political battle on this forum.

post #44 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

For starters, being FORCED to buy a product or service from the government!  Wait until they do get 'single payer'.  What if Obama's top supporter was Bill Gates and quid pro quo Obama issued an Executive Order that FORCED everyone to buy a Microsoft computer or tablet or smart phone.

And don't you mean 'trying to go into effect'...

Did you know that some states FORCE all drivers to carry auto insurance?!?

Totalitarian!
post #45 of 173

Smells like a right-wing nut over here.

post #46 of 173
He wasn't comparing government politics with technology, he was comparing technology with technology.

"The government has had 3 years to prepare for this. Apple redesigned iOS in about 7 months. No comparison. Besides minor software glitches are not the same thing as going to an exchange website and not being able to do squat because of server overload."

That is inaccurate in the sense that iOS7 builds upon Unix, which has been ion development for 30 years. Or more recently Mac OS X which has been around for 13 years, or more recently iOS 6,5,4,3.... which has been around since 2008.
Apple didn't build iOS 7 from the ground up in 7 months, and something tells me that the majority of the work on these new exchanges was probably started sometime after the supreme court decision.

All in all, your timeline is way off.
post #47 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post
 

 

How about YOU provide evidence of a government program that actually works, doesn't have glitches, doesn't require ton of paperwork or invasive bureaucratic QnA's, no fraud or abuse and that people are actually happy to be on such a program?

OK. I hate to tell you this, but here's an example -- what do you know! -- from health care: 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2012/Jul/Medicare-v-Employer-Insurance.aspx

 

Add: I did not call you a maroon because you belonged to the TP. I named a specific one. Please re-read. :-)

post #48 of 173
I'll tell you what I don't like

%u2022 a 75% subsidy for Congress
%u2022 the "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude
%u2022 the over 1,800 exemptions given to businesses, many to union members
%u2022 lies like Obamacare will "cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year"
%u2022 those who don't see the correlation between classifying 30 hours as full-time and employers cutting worker's hours below that number

It makes me sick to think that those of us who have made correct choices all our lives, done without when we couldn't afford and worked hard to get where we are, basically have to support the other half of the population.

It's not enough that we provide an ungodly amount of entitlements, the kicker is you're branded as uncaring if you dare question it, despite what you do in your personal lives through church or other means.

Where else in life do you get so much with no strings attached? I'm subject to drug testing, but if you ask someone on welfare to be drug tested, you're discriminating. Say that voters should have to have a photo ID and you're racist. Politicians must cater to the tens of millions of illegals if they want to have a chance at getting elected. Somehow it's unAmerican to actually follow the law and come to this country legally the way my wife and her family did. Asking people to work hard and better themselves is out-of-line.

I've said it once and I'll say it again - except for the very small percentage of people who are truly unable to work, all handouts need to come with stipulations. You can volunteer, clean up the community, go to a vocational school, but you have to do something. If you want to have kids, then you better be sure you can provide for them. The government is not your nanny. If you can't feed, clothe, provide shelter and be an involved parent, then you should not have kids. And there definitely should not be any incentives for you to do so.

But, even good people often suffer hardships. So let the programs help those TEMPORARILY when they are in need. And yes, everything has a price. I don't care how well-intentioned an entitlement is, it costs boatloads of money.

In case you haven't noticed, the United States is 17 Trillion in debt, a number most people can't even begin to grasp. We're currently borrowing 57 cents for every dollar spent. There's no way this can continue. There's no amount of taxes that can cover our asses. Someone has to make the unpopular choice and deal with it or we can just wait until everything collapses.

My distain is not limited to the Democrats. There are many Republicans who are equally guilty of putting their political careers ahead of the people they are supposed to serve. I pray that one day we will have Congressional term limits, put an end to the influence of lobbyists and somehow rebuild our country.

Rant done.
post #49 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by ned bulous View Post

Right wingers who hate the ACA don't even understand it. Remember, the GOP has been wrong about everything from the Iraq War to the Bush Tax Cuts to the Clinton era tax hikes to Medicare & social security. The ACA ("Obamacare") has already started to bend the cost curve, has allowed kids to stay on their parents insurance until age 26, doesn't allow insurance companies to discriminate against kids for pre-existing conditions, requires insurance to pay out 80% of what they take in as premiums for actual health care, provides free (no co-pay) preventative care, increases competition between insurance companies, etc, etc

It's irritating that the GOP, in the midst of death throes, seems intent on bringing the rest of America down with it.
 

 

Lets just state facts...


Obama care (AKA, the Unaffordable Care Act) has destroyed this economy and has raised healthcare costs across the board.  You must be one of MSNBC's 200 viewers.  Worker are being forced to part time, losing coverage, etc.    

I agree with the idea that you should not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions (if you had them when you had insurance).  If you switch plans, you should be eligible for coverage.

 

Sir, you need to put the Kool Aid down and pickup a history book.  The GOP predicted ALL of this before the Unaffordable care act passed and not a one voted for it because they KNEW this would happen.    

 

On a side note, why should a government require a company (any company) to spend what they take in?   Are you a flipping communist?

 

I say we require the government to only spend 100% of what they take in and not spend 300% like these Democrats have been doing for years.

post #50 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post

 You drank the kool aid.  EVERYONE has health care already.   ANYONE can walk in a hospital and get health care.     I am not superior, I just think for myself, work for myself, provide for myself and my family.   I don't rely and handouts.  I can read history, I can see what other countries do with their socialized medicine.   If you think socialism works, you are living in a hole head first. Socialism is only good for the power hungry in power.

You got your say, I got mine, lets agree to just disagree because I am not going to get in a political battle on this forum.

Really? I thought the ER only serviced emergencies. You mean they clean teeth and do preventative care too? :/

Did you know that folks without insurance are 70% more likely to due if they get cancer? Why do you suppose that is?
post #51 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post
 
but that's what you get when you have a President that never really thought about the issues until shortly before election.

The Democrats have been talking about universal healthcare since Clinton was in his first term. The Republicans have been arguing that it would never work since then as well. Now the Republicans are in crisis mode because if it does end up working it will prove they were wrong all along.

 

The loudest opponents of the health care act have no valid reason to be opposed to it, especially since they already have great health insurance. The only people who have a legitimate complaint would be young people who think they don't need health insurance since they are healthy, but they also tend to by reckless and could easily end up in the emergency room. In that case, without insurance, the tax payers would have to foot the bill for their recklessness. The other group who possibly have a legitimate complaint are corporations who currently do not provide health care. But the employer mandate only affects large corporations and most large corporations are already providing health care.

 

So really who is being harmed by the healthcare act? In the original negotiations the Dems already made concessions in taxes and Medicare, etc. in order to pass the original bill. I don't hear any Republicans saying they want to give back any of those concessions in their outrage and attempts in repealing the law.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #52 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Haha, please no!:lol:

 

Don't compare iOS7 to the disaster called Obamacare! Much more pain is to come in the future from Obamacare, and I think that that's awesome!

 

And just for the record, I'm happy that the govt shut down today. I hope that it's closed for a bit longer.:D

 

How dare Obama compare iOS 7 to Obamacare! Is he on crack?:wow:

 

The iOS 7 rollout was super smooth compared to the disastrous mess that is called Obamacare! That is truly a dumb comparison to make. 

 

Exactly.  Only if US gov't can be managed like Apple.  Then we'll talk about comparing iOS7 to Obamacare.

post #53 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We don't actively root for failure."

People do that all the time. When people don't get their own way and feel strongly about it, they will do everything to make the alternative fail with the intention of coming in afterwards to say 'told you it would fail'. It's just like with Adobe's Creative Cloud, the new Mac Pro, the lack of a 17" MBP, iOS 7, the lack of a large iPhone. Every single time people say that because something is not what they want, they want to see it fail (usually in adoption numbers) as it's really the only way that it will change to be their preferred option - why would you change something that's a success? People can choose to be passive and allow things to fail on their own or they can be part of the problem and actively encourage failure.

When it comes to competing solutions, this is much more widely accepted behaviour e.g wishing Samsung to fail and Apple to succeed. Some issues are not that important and don't affect too many people, others are important and decisions should be made responsibly regardless of the preferred outcome. Doing damage for the sake of it is irresponsible, like if a kid doesn't want to share and breaks the toys so nobody gets to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Apple, you know, has a few more resources than we have to roll out technology"

Tim Cook 2016. Maybe they should get a company like Apple to do it and offer incentives in return. That way it doesn't cost any money directly, it's money they aren't getting anyway. Of course they can't just pick one company but they stage a phoney outsourcing selection process to make it look fair and just pick Apple anyway.
post #54 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

OK. I hate to tell you this, but here's an example -- what do you know! -- from health care: 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2012/Jul/Medicare-v-Employer-Insurance.aspx

 

Add: I did not call you a maroon because you belonged to the TP. I named a specific one. Please re-read. :-)

 

LOL, now your reply is funny.   You are overlooking that the program they are receiving benefits from is going bankrupt.   BANKRUPT!   So, of course some may be happy, but it's a failing plan with the end in sight.

FYI... If the TP is to blame for not liking the Unaffordable Care Act, then get it line bro because 65-70% of America Hates it, so the Tea Party must be getting HUGE.

 

It pisses me off that the lemmings of the left are constantly demonizing the right or tea party for just wanting to have a RESPONSIBLE government that upholds laws and adheres to the constitution.   

post #55 of 173
Obama should go back to his CrackBerry and leave Apple out of it. This guy has no shame.
But what do you expect from someone who entertains JayZ the former crack dealer now rapper at the White House? 1oyvey.gif
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
post #56 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"That's not how we do things in America. We don't actively root for failure."

I guess the President doesn't have time to visit tech forums.

post #57 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

 

 

The loudest opponents of the health care act have no valid reason to be opposed to it, especially since they already have great health insurance. 

 

 

 

Turn the channel away from MSNBC and you might get the facts.   Ask a UPS Driver about his new insurance in 3 months.  As his/her spouse.   Ask the unbelievable amount of Americans who now are part time because their small business can NOT afford  the Unaffordable Care Act.

 

Seriously, it is destroying the economy and every premise it was sold on has already been PROVEN to be a flat out LIE.

post #58 of 173


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post #59 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by ned bulous View Post


Really? I thought the ER only serviced emergencies. You mean they clean teeth and do preventative care too? :/

Did you know that folks without insurance are 70% more likely to due if they get cancer? Why do you suppose that is?

 

Everyone can and should do preventive care.  Just make sure you eat healthy and exercise everyday.

People eating junk everyday and sitting around in front of computer or TV not exercising, of course, they'll get sick and having all sorts of health problems.  Even if they go to see a doctor and the doc tells him/her to have no more junk food and prescribing 30-min exercise daily, do you think they'll follow?

Instead of spending on health care, gov't should spend money on promoting eating healthy and exercise.  Go look up some health statistics, you'll find that US is one of the most unhealthy countries among the industrial countries.

post #60 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinScott View Post

I'll tell you what I don't like

%u2022 a 75% subsidy for Congress
%u2022 the "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude
%u2022 the over 1,800 exemptions given to businesses, many to union members
%u2022 lies like Obamacare will "cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year"
%u2022 those who don't see the correlation between classifying 30 hours as full-time and employers cutting worker's hours below that number

It makes me sick to think that those of us who have made correct choices all our lives, done without when we couldn't afford and worked hard to get where we are, basically have to support the other half of the population.

It's not enough that we provide an ungodly amount of entitlements, the kicker is you're branded as uncaring if you dare question it, despite what you do in your personal lives through church or other means.

Where else in life do you get so much with no strings attached? I'm subject to drug testing, but if you ask someone on welfare to be drug tested, you're discriminating. Say that voters should have to have a photo ID and you're racist. Politicians must cater to the tens of millions of illegals if they want to have a chance at getting elected. Somehow it's unAmerican to actually follow the law and come to this country legally the way my wife and her family did. Asking people to work hard and better themselves is out-of-line.

I've said it once and I'll say it again - except for the very small percentage of people who are truly unable to work, all handouts need to come with stipulations. You can volunteer, clean up the community, go to a vocational school, but you have to do something. If you want to have kids, then you better be sure you can provide for them. The government is not your nanny. If you can't feed, clothe, provide shelter and be an involved parent, then you should not have kids. And there definitely should not be any incentives for you to do so.

But, even good people often suffer hardships. So let the programs help those TEMPORARILY when they are in need. And yes, everything has a price. I don't care how well-intentioned an entitlement is, it costs boatloads of money.

In case you haven't noticed, the United States is 17 Trillion in debt, a number most people can't even begin to grasp. We're currently borrowing 57 cents for every dollar spent. There's no way this can continue. There's no amount of taxes that can cover our asses. Someone has to make the unpopular choice and deal with it or we can just wait until everything collapses.

My distain is not limited to the Democrats. There are many Republicans who are equally guilty of putting their political careers ahead of the people they are supposed to serve. I pray that one day we will have Congressional term limits, put an end to the influence of lobbyists and somehow rebuild our country.

Rant done.

 

That was really well said.   There are many who know nothing of these facts.

 

Everyone already can get through hardships.  Just walk into the hospital and get the emergency health care you need.   Everyone that works, gets social security benefits.

post #61 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post
 

LOL, now your reply is funny.   You are overlooking that the program they are receiving benefits from is going bankrupt.   BANKRUPT!   So, of course some may be happy, but it's a failing plan with the end in sight.

FYI... If the TP is to blame for not liking the Unaffordable Care Act, then get it line bro because 65-70% of America Hates it, so the Tea Party must be getting HUGE.

 

Also, the word is MORON, not maroon.   That might explain your train of thought and education level....

 

It pisses me off that the lemmings of the left are constantly demonizing the right or tea party for just wanting to have a RESPONSIBLE government that upholds laws and adheres to the constitution.   

Oh, chill. Medicare going bankrupt!? 

 

This is just arrant nonsense spouted by news sources you listen to/read and people like Paul Ryan. Not based on facts. Unless you have no idea what the word 'bankrupt' means. (Will Medicare have enough money, at current growth rates in health spending, to meet 100% of what beneficiaries get today if payroll tax rates remain the same? No. By 2033, it will be only able to afford 75% of today's care, and it will stay at that level until 2086. You're welcome to read the report on this put out by the Trustees of Medicare/Medicaid -- if you're interested in facts, that is.)

 

As to 'maroon'... I guess you're not up on your Americana.

 

For the record, I am quite pleased with my train of thought and education level.

post #62 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Haha, please no!:lol:

 

Don't compare iOS7 to the disaster called Obamacare! Much more pain is to come in the future from Obamacare, and I think that that's awesome!

 

And just for the record, I'm happy that the govt shut down today. I hope that it's closed for a bit longer.:D

 

How dare Obama compare iOS 7 to Obamacare! Is he on crack?:wow:

 

The iOS 7 rollout was super smooth compared to the disastrous mess that is called Obamacare! That is truly a dumb comparison to make. 

 

Excellent, could not agree more on all points!! 

post #63 of 173
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/286759/b8b0e96256/1466628465/7b8be8279d/


we'reopen


The United States Federal Government is shut down. Federal employees are furloughed. National Parks are closed. The National Zoo’s Panda Cam is offline.

And the Census Bureau website is down.

But there’s good news: PolicyMap is up, and it's now the place to go for Census data while the government is shut down.

PolicyMap has always been the simplest, most comprehensive source for geographic data. Now, we’re proud to provide a helping hand, offering the Census’s data while they can’t. And it’s not just the Census: Data sites are down at the CDC, USDA, BEA, National Center for Education Statistics, NOAA, and, yes, National Park Service. PolicyMap continues to provide data from all these sources (plus plenty more).

We may not be able to offer ranger hikes in Yosemite or run the Mars Curiosity Rover, but PolicyMap always has the data you need, all in one place, no matter what Congress does (or doesn’t do).
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #64 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by ned bulous View Post


Did you know that folks without insurance are 70% more likely to due if they get cancer? Why do you suppose that is?

 

 

Thats easy....    Because most (NOT ALL) of those are leeching off the government, do nothing to take care of themselves or their families.   The government has created this mindset in people, especially the food stamp president we have today.     Personal responsibility is lacking.  Why work if its handed to you.   If you are not proud enough to fend for yourself and provide for your family, then you probably are not going to be one that lives and healthy responsible life.

 

Please save the 1% Story of people who can't work....   It a tired story and doesn't change the other 99%

 

Sorry for being the Master of the Obvious here....

post #65 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/286759/b8b0e96256/1466628465/7b8be8279d/


we'reopen


The United States Federal Government is shut down. Federal employees are furloughed. National Parks are closed. The National Zoo’s Panda Cam is offline.

And the Census Bureau website is down.

But there’s good news: PolicyMap is up, and it's now the place to go for Census data while the government is shut down.

PolicyMap has always been the simplest, most comprehensive source for geographic data. Now, we’re proud to provide a helping hand, offering the Census’s data while they can’t. And it’s not just the Census: Data sites are down at the CDC, USDA, BEA, National Center for Education Statistics, NOAA, and, yes, National Park Service. PolicyMap continues to provide data from all these sources (plus plenty more).

We may not be able to offer ranger hikes in Yosemite or run the Mars Curiosity Rover, but PolicyMap always has the data you need, all in one place, no matter what Congress does (or doesn’t do).

 

Heard the president's Caddy was just re-classified as "ESSENTIAL"   As was the unaffordable care act navigators.    But the Center for Disease Control is shut down.   OMG, the mind of a community organizer :D

post #66 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinScott View Post

It makes me sick to think that those of us who have made correct choices all our lives, done without when we couldn't afford and worked hard to get where we are, basically have to support the other half of the population.

 

I don't see this as an issue of the responsible, hard-working people supporting the lazy half of the population. I work very hard, have no credit card debt, have never been unemployed. I've worked for large companies, founded and managed a small business and am currently self-employed. For the past few years I've been lucky to share a health care plan offered through my wife's employer, but when I had to buy my own insurance, the options were awful. I feel much better knowing that if my wife lost her job, the new health care exchanges would give us more options.

 

I would have preferred a single-payer option because, as a self-employed person, I don't understand why health insurance is linked to your employer to begin with. I don't get car or home insurance through an employer. Anyway, last year I found a doctor I really liked, but now I can't see him because my wife's employer decided to change to a different network. So the only thing that has ever come between me and my doctor wasn't the government but a private company making a financial decision.

post #67 of 173

What an insult. Tim Cook should demand an apology.

 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
post #68 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by arlomedia View Post
 
... as a self-employed person, I don't understand why health insurance is linked to your employer to begin with. 

This is the key point that most people don't get. And one of the biggest sources of frictions in the health care (and career) marketplace.

post #69 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post

 

Turn the channel away from MSNBC and you might get the facts.   Ask a UPS Driver about his new insurance in 3 months.  As his/her spouse.   Ask the unbelievable amount of Americans who now are part time because their small business can NOT afford  the Unaffordable Care Act.

 

Seriously, it is destroying the economy and every premise it was sold on has already been PROVEN to be a flat out LIE.

 

UPS was never under any obligation to pay for spouse health care and under the new health care act they still aren't required to. UPS is one of the few corporations that offers full health benefits to part time workers. They were never required to and under the new health care act they still are not required to. So how do you figure that the UPS changes to their offered coverage is somehow a result of the health care act?

 

Also small businesses that could not afford coverage for their employees are still not required to provide coverage.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #70 of 173

#fixhealthcare #hypocrites2014 

 

Three quick ways to vastly improve healthcare costs

 

  1. Open the market so you can purchase healthcare across State lines like you can car, house, boat, and life insurance. 
  2. Tort reform. Put a cap on what people can litigate for so liability insurance goes down, which is a huge cost to doctors and hospitals. 
  3. Health savings accounts that can be willed to family. Allow anyone to 'donate' to anyone else's savings account. You have a much better chance of people being charitable when they know exactly what the money is going towards. 

 

#1 is probably the biggest and easiest solved as Congress simply has to vote to open that up. Then you have healthcare coverage competing like car insurance. 

 

#3 can be mandated, but not government run as the government degreases value and increases cost in EVERYTHING! This will force the young to save for when they are old, which is the largest drain on healthcare. 

 

The best role for any government is to help open markets up to free enterprise which leads to competition, which always leads to better products/services and lower costs. 

 

So this is not a battle over whether everyone should have healthcare (as the poorest can always go to the emergency room), but WHO decides how healthcare is ran. Open market, or the government. That is the real debate. 

post #71 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



 

Scared to ask ... I assume these aren't a joke?

post #72 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post

Lets just state facts...


Obama care (AKA, the Unaffordable Care Act) has destroyed this economy and has raised healthcare costs across the board.  You must be one of MSNBC's 200 viewers.  Worker are being forced to part time, losing coverage, etc.    


I agree with the idea that you should not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions (if you had them when you had insurance).  If you switch plans, you should be eligible for coverage.

Sir, you need to put the Kool Aid down and pickup a history book.  The GOP predicted ALL of this before the Unaffordable care act passed and not a one voted for it because they KNEW this would happen.    

On a side note, why should a government require a company (any company) to spend what they take in?   Are you a flipping communist?

I say we require the government to only spend 100% of what they take in and not spend 300% like these Democrats have been doing for years.

LOL. Your posts are devoid of facts, which doesn't surprise me. According to the non partisan CBO, Obamacare REDUCES the deficit. Moreover, even critics of ACA have admitted that it has NOT harmed the economy. In contrast, Bush's tax cuts and wars DID ravage the economy- why do I think you probably supported those horrendous policies which led to the financial meltdown in 2008?

I'm tired of the right wing lecturing me with the "facts" they got from Limbaugh, Hannity and Faux News! These are the same folks who think climate change is a hoax, that Intelligent Design is a valid scientific theory, etc, etc.
post #73 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post

 

Turn the channel away from MSNBC and you might get the facts.   Ask a UPS Driver about his new insurance in 3 months.  As his/her spouse.   Ask the unbelievable amount of Americans who now are part time because their small business can NOT afford  the Unaffordable Care Act.

 

Seriously, it is destroying the economy and every premise it was sold on has already been PROVEN to be a flat out LIE.

 

UPS was never under any obligation to pay for spouse health care and under the new health care act they still aren't required to. UPS is one of the few corporations that offers full health benefits to part time workers. They were never required to and under the new health care act they still are not required to. So how do you figure that the UPS changes to their offered coverage is somehow a result of the health care act?

 

Actually, I had stated the facts on UPS in a post above, which Macboy Pro apparently failed to read, or simply ignored: their decision only affects working spouses whose employers offer their own health care. Non-working spouses, or spouses whose employers do not offer health care, are not affected.

post #74 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
 

 

Yeah...but my health insurance premiums didn't increase by 119% with the release of iOS7. That's what the ACA did to me this past Friday. I guess at this point I hate what I'm experiencing. #notgood #leavemyhealthcarealone

 

The point was never to lower your personal premium, but to provide affordable care for more, unfortunately not all, of our people and put a brake on the runaway cost increases of care. My premiums are going up too, not sure by how much yet since I haven't selected which plan for my family yet. I make too much to qualify for any subsidy - lucky me. My families benefits will increase, I'll pay my way and I suppose help fund the subsidies for others with lower incomes. I accept that as the price of living in a country that has both a healthier and more secure populace. Business used to take care of it but most job creators bailed on their workers ... All in all it will make us a stronger, more competitive country. 

post #75 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
 

 

Yeah...but my health insurance premiums didn't increase by 119% with the release of iOS7. That's what the ACA did to me this past Friday. I guess at this point I hate what I'm experiencing. #notgood #leavemyhealthcarealone

 

Because with the law not having actually been in place "it" upped your premiums which, of course, had NEVER been upped previously?

 

Yeah sure.

 

This "past Friday" the PPACA wasn't even running to any significant extent (no personal responsibility mandate, no exchanges) and it actually doesn't start going live for the exchanges people until January 1st. Whoever jacked your premium is playing you. In the PPACA they just found a new excuse for the same old BOHICA of healthcare payments.

post #76 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
So really who is being harmed by the healthcare act?

Arguably almost all of us are being hurt by the "affordable" [sic] healthcare act, due to our tainted government allowing premiums to rise too much too fast, whether it's because the for-profit insurers need to keep those profits coming, because there are no limits to coverage, because we have millions more that will receive insurance, or because of the added complexity.

post #77 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post
 

 

 

Thats easy....    Because most (NOT ALL) of those are leeching off the government, do nothing to take care of themselves or their families.   The government has created this mindset in people, especially the food stamp president we have today.     Personal responsibility is lacking.  Why work if its handed to you.   If you are not proud enough to fend for yourself and provide for your family, then you probably are not going to be one that lives and healthy responsible life.

 

Please save the 1% Story of people who can't work....   It a tired story and doesn't change the other 99%

 

Sorry for being the Master of the Obvious here....

 

So that's a big "yes" for the enactment of the personal mandate then?

 

Good for you.

post #78 of 173
It's funny how opposing theft, and opposing the destruction of a large swath of the US economy is spun as "rooting for failure".

The ACA violates people's rights, it criminalizes sales of private insurance, it forces people to buy plans that are a worse deal than they would be able to get in the private sector, and it is a naked attempt for the government to nationalize the healthcare industry.

If, as they claim, insurance companies were being too greedy, then the government could have created their own legitimate insurance system, that didn't take any profit, and just paid out claims from premiums, and offered it as a competitive choice for people.

That's what they would do if they actually wanted to help people.

But they just want power, so they criminalized the competition (eg: private insurance) because they knew they couldn't compete if people had freedom of choice, and eliminated the right for the young and healthy to have very light or no-insurance forcing people to buy their plan.

This violates rights all around... it's unconscionable. And it shows their intentions, unlike their rhetoric, are not noble in the least.
post #79 of 173
Classic defensive comments that make Sebelius and Obama look terrible...

The obvious difference: my iPhone actually worked when I upgraded it... As well as every other iPhone of every person I know who upgraded... Last time I checked, most people are simple not able to use the various exchange web sites... An epic fail...

"They (Apple) have more people than us." LOL! The Federal Defecit EVERY YEAR is greater than Apple's entire market cap, built up over 30 years.. For the Federal Government to complain about their lack of resources is beyond the pale.

I mean, they should get focus on getting this fixed, and less on defensive PR...
post #80 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post
People also hated the idea of Medicare when it was announced.

 

History has proven those people correct.

 

All of these government programs intervening in the market have the result of making people poorer...which the politicians turn around and use as an excuse to take more power and money from the economy.  It's a vicious cycle. 

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  • Obama, Sebelius compare Apple's iOS 7 launch to Healthcare.gov rollout issues
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