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Apple alone now holds 10% of all US corporate cash

post #1 of 67
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Of the $1.48 trillion in cash held by U.S. non-financial companies as of June 30, Apple's $147 billion in reserves accounted for 10 percent of all companies, new data shows.

Apple


A new analysis by Moody's, summarized by The Wall Street Journal this week, reveals that Apple's share of U.S. corporate cash grew from 9.5 percent at the end of 2012 to 10 percent in mid-2013. Apple's cash hoard has been the subject of considerable debate, as some investors believe the company should be doing more with its money.

While Apple has the largest share by far, together Microsoft, Google, Cisco and Pfizer account for another 15 percent of all U.S. corporate reserves. According to Moody's, the top 50 companies account for 62 percent.

For years now, Apple has been flush with billions it can't spend fast enough. The company announced plans for a dividend program in March of 2012, along with a $10 billion share buyback program.

Those plans were expanded this year, when Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook announced expanded buyback and dividend plans that will distribute $100 billion from its cash pile through 2015.

But even with those aggressive plans, Apple's cash continues to grow faster than the company can spend it. Its domestic and overseas funds reached $146.6 billion by the end of this year's June quarter.

That's drawn the attention of billionaire investor Carl Icahn, who has begun pushing Apple to spend $150 billion and buy back even more of its own shares. Icahn pitched his plan to Cook and Apple Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer at dinner in Manhattan this week, in a conversation he admitted got "testy" at times.
post #2 of 67

"Apple to subsidize U.S. Government."

 

Oh, how I'd pay to see that headline...

post #3 of 67
Perhaps that's a good solution if the teepees in the senate continue to hold the government to ransom long enough for the government to default on some of it's loans - Borrow it from Apple at a decent rate until the the nut-jobs in senate get sectioned..
post #4 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

"Apple to subsidize U.S. Government."

Oh, how I'd pay to see that headline...

Or, in the words of Michael Dell: "I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders".
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post #5 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

"Apple to subsidize U.S. Government."

 

Oh, how I'd pay to see that headline...

 

With a current budget deficit and a debt of over $16 trillion, there is nothing Apple could do. Since last year, the government debt has raised by about $1.84 billion per day. The US government is too big for even Apple to help. Sorry to break your heart.

post #6 of 67

The key phrase is "non-financial". It's not the Apple's, MS, Cisco's of the world that is the problem -- they produce stuff. The financial institutions make nothing but money for themselves, and misery for everyone else. 

post #7 of 67
Lend money to the US Govt. is that safe?
post #8 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The key phrase is "non-financial". It's not the Apple's, MS, Cisco's of the world that is the problem -- they produce stuff. The financial institutions make nothing but money for themselves, and misery for everyone else. 

Financial companies are not sitting on anywhere near the same proportion of cash in their balance sheets. Moreover, whatever cash they do have could be a consciously designed asset allocation strategy on their part. Cash is their raw material, if you will. This is very different from non-financial corporations. Hence it makes sense to treat them separately for comparison purposes.
post #9 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Bailey View Post

Lend money to the US Govt. is that safe?

Ask China.
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post #10 of 67

And yet Icahn is telling Apple to get rid of all of its money.

 

Is there a way for a company to hold a vote of no confidence in its shareholders?

 

Originally Posted by willkill07 View Post

With a current budget deficit and a debt of over $16 trillion, there is nothing Apple could do. Since last year, the government debt has raised by about $1.84 billion per day. The US government is too big for even Apple to help. Sorry to break your heart.

 

Yeah, it’s called humor. You’ll find that a lot here.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #11 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Is there a way for a company to hold a vote of no confidence in its shareholders?

 

Ask Michael Dell :D

post #12 of 67

Didn't the feds have a surplus not that long ago? or was that just a make believe surplus within a budget year that ignores the mountain of debt accumulated in prior years that will take 28,000 years to pay off? Or maybe the actual surplus back in eighteen hundred whatever where the feds paid money back to all land owners (or something along those lines) instead of making strategic investments etc and now the country is in debt so deep that not even James Cameron could make it all the way down there. 

 

So yeah - Apple should do what the feds did - take a secure financial position and piss it away in order to make some folks temporarily happy that they got something for nothing - that'll work. 

post #13 of 67
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post
Didn't the feds have a surplus not that long ago?

 

No, that was a budget surplus, not a financial one. We haven’t been out of debt for decades.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #14 of 67
I keep wondering why Apple doesn't become a bank? Not a conventional one as such but a new kind of digital one (as only Apple can dream up). They are the most trusted /best know/ most admired / highest value brand / highest customer satisfaction … and so on … company on Earth (except for the iHaters), have more money than most countries and more credit card numbers than anyone else on the web. They have fingerprint verification and stores in the high street if needed.
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post #15 of 67
The bad thing is now Apple will be seen by many as a greedy evil corporation all because they're successful. Why is it people think that having a lot of money makes a person/company evil and greedy? Maybe those assholes would like Apple if they were in debt and struggling.
post #16 of 67
US corporate cash?

I thought much of that cash originally belonged to those stupid suckers in the UK.
Taxing thoughts.
post #17 of 67

i try to think of all the crazy things Apple should do with it, but they are so big now, nothing makes sense. I'd love it if they bought a wireless carrier or isp, but they are so regionalized it wouldn't be possible to reach the whole world.

 

i guess they could always buy Ford.

post #18 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro View Post

The bad thing is now Apple will be seen by many as a greedy evil corporation all because they're successful. Why is it people think that having a lot of money makes a person/company evil and greedy? Maybe those assholes would like Apple if they were in debt and struggling.

There is nothing you can do about iHaters, they have a mental affliction. You are projecting a societal mind set (envy of others doing better to put it simply) that doesn't fit in this case.

For the most part, average normal people that use Apple products come from all walks of life and represent all financial levels from the wealthy to the less well off. I don't believe amongst them you would find too many people feeling as you describe. I believe most people that love Apple products are happy to see Apple do well regardless of their personal financial levels.

As I say, those that cling to their PC built from parts at radio shack or their Android (because they were Microsoft lovers and Apple haters and MS don't have a mobile device they like) etc … the hate about Apple's success, be it iO7 adoption rates, money in the bank or Safari's total domination world wide … these things seem to make them crazy. I love it! 1smile.gif
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post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I keep wondering why Apple doesn't become a bank? Not a conventional one as such but a new kind of digital one (as only Apple can dream up). They are the most trusted /best know/ most admired / highest value brand / highest customer satisfaction … and so on … company on Earth (except for the iHaters), have more money than most countries and more credit card numbers than anyone else on the web. They have fingerprint verification and stores in the high street if needed.

Tim Cook has said repeatedly that Apple is a products company, plain and simple. If they became a financial institution all of a sudden that would be diametrically opposed to being a products company. Doesn't make any sense at all

Daniel Swanson

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post #20 of 67
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post
Tim Cook has said repeatedly that Apple is a products company, plain and simple.

 

Their product would be money. They print it, as is.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #21 of 67

That's some life-changing amount of money right there. I can't even imagine what they could do but fortunately there are some smart people in charge over there in Cupertino. This could transform the company. Buying a carrier is one idea that's been mentioned on AI that makes sense and is horrendous at the same time. Bring Elon Musk on board, heck, Dean Kamen as well, and fund some real "think different" ideas and do some real transformational stuff.

 

Edit: Ray Ozzie, too. I could go on and on. There are some visionaries and people with great track records. (Ozzie couldn't get traction at MS but I do not hold that against him. I always imagined him there like Don Quixote tilting after windmills and giants.)

post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Or, in the words of Michael Dell: "I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders".

Or in this case, "I’d shut it down and give the money back to the taxpayers".

Step one is complete, but that next step is tricky.
post #23 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

"Apple to subsidize U.S. Government."

 

Oh, how I'd pay to see that headline...

 

Subsidize the US Government?  No...that would be an exercise in futility.  How about Apple *running* the government as a business?  Within a decade China would be borrowing money from us, the State Of The Union would be replaced by a Keynote presentation by Tim, Craig, Phil, and maybe an accounting gnome, and we'd all get Thanksgiving week off...with pay.

post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

There is nothing you can do about iHaters, they have a mental affliction. You are projecting a societal mind set (envy of others doing better to put it simply) that doesn't fit in this case.

For the most part, average normal people that use Apple products come from all walks of life and represent all financial levels from the wealthy to the less well off. I don't believe amongst them you would find too many people feeling as you describe. I believe most people that love Apple products are happy to see Apple do well regardless of their personal financial levels.

As I say, those that cling to their PC built from parts at radio shack or their Android (because they were Microsoft lovers and Apple haters and MS don't have a mobile device they like) etc … the hate about Apple's success, be it iO7 adoption rates, money in the bank or Safari's total domination world wide … these things seem to make them crazy. I love it! 1smile.gif

The best revenge is indeed success. With Apple's success I can enjoy some revenge myself vicariously.

Daniel Swanson

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Daniel Swanson

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post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

Tim Cook has said repeatedly that Apple is a products company, plain and simple. If they became a financial institution all of a sudden that would be diametrically opposed to being a products company. Doesn't make any sense at all

Not necessarily. They could become like MC or Visa, which are competing services that work with an innumerable financial institutions, or Apple could be an intermediary between one or both of them as a way to build off their already prolific store of credit cards and mobile devices being used. This would strengthen their device sales, the way their current cloud services help to sell and link their device sales.
post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

Tim Cook has said repeatedly that Apple is a products company, plain and simple. If they became a financial institution all of a sudden that would be diametrically opposed to being a products company. Doesn't make any sense at all

My meaning was as in financing the sale of their own products. Not diametrically opposed to being a products company at all IMHO. I wasn't meaning a conventional bank. Also the VC option as mentioned above is another excellent roll they could perform.
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post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

The best revenge is indeed success. With Apple's success I can enjoy some revenge myself vicariously.

Me too 1smile.gif

Is anyone else getting a Safari crash when posting to this blog? I am using 10.8.5 and Safari 6.1.
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post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Bailey View Post

Lend money to the US Govt. is that safe?

If they have any T-bills, they've already done that.

Whether it's safe is anyone's guess, but I would venture that there still aren't too many safer investments.
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post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, that was a budget surplus, not a financial one. We haven’t been out of debt for decades.

Exactly, we just didn't need to borrow money for a brief period.
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post #30 of 67
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post
Is anyone else getting a Safari crash when posting to this blog? I am using 10.8.5 and Safari 6.1.

 

When posting or when editing posts? That used to happen on the latter for me (they seem to have fixed it now), but Mavericks and Safari 7.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I keep wondering why Apple doesn't become a bank? Not a conventional one as such but a new kind of digital one (as only Apple can dream up). They are the most trusted /best know/ most admired / highest value brand / highest customer satisfaction … and so on … company on Earth (except for the iHaters), have more money than most countries and more credit card numbers than anyone else on the web. They have fingerprint verification and stores in the high street if needed.

 

Brilliant! I wish they would, too! I detest the big banks, insurance companies, cellphone providers and cable companies. Apple is one of the few companies I trust along with Toyota and Honda.  For some reason, I can't think of any others! :)

post #32 of 67
Apple should buy Dell just to shut it down. How do you like them apples, Mike.
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post


Tim Cook has said repeatedly that Apple is a products company, plain and simple. If they became a financial institution all of a sudden that would be diametrically opposed to being a products company. Doesn't make any sense at all

 

I take your point but Ford, GM, Chrysler all had financing arms. I know a car purchase is way bigger than a computer but Apple could become an online bank very easily. They could call it Apple iBank. They could give a free toaster with a new account. Errr I mean, a free iPod Shuffle! A (product) RED Shuffle!   :)

post #34 of 67

Does that $147 billion include just the money Apple has in the U.S., or does it also include money held overseas in order to dodge paying its fair share of taxes?

post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I take your point but Ford, GM, Chrysler all had financing arms. I know a car purchase is way bigger than a computer but Apple could become an online bank very easily. They could call it Apple iBank. They could give a free toaster with a new account. Errr I mean, a free iPod Shuffle! A (product) RED Shuffle!   1smile.gif

There's already an Apple Bank so Apple iBank might be too similar.
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post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

Does that $147 billion include just the money Apple has in the U.S., or does it also include money held overseas in order to dodge paying its fair share of taxes?

It's all their money, all the other companies have money overseas as well.
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post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Their product would be money. They print it, as is.

 

You could be joking, in which case, ha ha.

 

But if you're not, money is NOT a product. It's nothing more than idea backed by confidence. That confidence used to be backed by precious metals, but thanks to the Federal Reserve, that confidence can be rather easily manipulated--unless you put your CONFIDENCE in a company like Apple--a PRODUCTS company--which makes PRODUCTS (Product=a finished, high quality service or article in the hands of the consumer as an exchange for a valuable) very well, which products we have used for decades to produce our own products which have established our own prosperity.

Daniel Swanson

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post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 

 

I take your point but Ford, GM, Chrysler all had financing arms. I know a car purchase is way bigger than a computer but Apple could become an online bank very easily. They could call it Apple iBank. They could give a free toaster with a new account. Errr I mean, a free iPod Shuffle! A (product) RED Shuffle!   :)

 

Bad idea. A major factor in Apple's power and success is its focus on its mission which does NOT include mucking around with money and finance. Leave that to the truly greedy money manipulators who produce NOTHING of substance.

Daniel Swanson

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post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post
 

Bring Elon Musk on board, heck, Dean Kamen as well, and fund some real "think different" ideas and do some real transformational stuff.

 

Edit: Ray Ozzie, too. I could go on and on. 

I agree with you that Apple's board is due for a serious overhaul. A bunch of has-beens, really.

 

Musk and Kamen -- maybe. Ray Ozzie, though? No.

 

I think they should add someone from outside the US to the board.

post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I keep wondering why Apple doesn't become a bank? Not a conventional one as such but a new kind of digital one (as only Apple can dream up). They are the most trusted /best know/ most admired / highest value brand / highest customer satisfaction … and so on … company on Earth (except for the iHaters), have more money than most countries and more credit card numbers than anyone else on the web. They have fingerprint verification and stores in the high street if needed.

 

Brilliant! I wish they would, too! I detest the big banks, insurance companies, cellphone providers and cable companies. Apple is one of the few companies I trust along with Toyota and Honda.  For some reason, I can't think of any others! :)

 

Do you have sense of all the hundreds of new regulations that would befall them overnight?

 

Apple shouldn't go anywhere near something like that. It would be strategic stupidity.

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