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Asus, HTC, LG and other Android licensees join Samsung in faking test results - Page 2

post #41 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Ooh can anyone say ""Class Action Suit? Or does their "sales" not add up to enough real people to form a "class"?

 

Fandroids have no class to start with.

post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Whatever.
How many people actually BUY a phone based on benchmarks?
One or three?

 

Fandroids routinely trot around benchmark numbers to pump up their self esteem against the "sheeple" that buy iPhones.  Any time some new generic Android phone #32343 is released they are all furiously hitting F5 on their favorite websites to see the benchmark numbers that they can use to crow about.  Now that it's shown that most of the companies are cheating at these benchmarks we are hearing all these excuses about "everyone does it!!" and "no one buys on benchmarks!!", etc etc.

post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

Notice the similarity? American companies such as Apple and Google have a higher ethical standard and Asian companies lie and cheat regularly. Different cultures.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight... just like American energy companies, or American "agricultural" biotecnological companies, or American pharmaceutical companies. Paramount examples of ethical standards in the country and around the world...

post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post

Is this an Apple blog? Lol. No problem you convinced me with your bias reports only iPhone is the best phone ever! Is it true that the new iPhone has a fake 64bit CPU manufactured by Samsung ? If Samsung is faking benchmarks so does it mean all the benchmarks for the iPhone 5S are fake too?

 

Butthurt Fandroid is butthurt. Gonna have to find something else to wank to then your phony benchmark numbers?

post #45 of 130
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post
Is this an Apple blog? Lol. No problem you convinced me with your bias reports only iPhone is the best phone ever! Is it true that the new iPhone has a fake 64bit CPU manufactured by Samsung ? If Samsung is faking benchmarks so does it mean all the benchmarks for the iPhone 5S are fake too?

 

Go to MacRumors.

 

I like that; it rolls off the keyboard better than the place with fire and brimstone.

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post #46 of 130
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

These tests are stupid.  The Galaxy S4 suppose to be blazing fast.  But in the real world it lags big time.

From early reports it looks like even the Note3 lags! lol. losers
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2453680&page=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2438208

I don't care how fast your cpu is, if your software sucks you suck.

Micro-stutter: when the UI momentarily and abruptly stops during a scrolling operation (even if it's only for a couple of milliseconds). Micro-stutter interrupts what would otherwise be a smooth and fluid scrolling experience.


What causes micro-stutters? The simple answer is "jank": Problematic blocking of a software application's user interface due to slow operations. In order to maintain smoothness and fluidity in a UI, it is now generally acknowledge that a consistent 60 frames per second is needed. What this means is you have to complete all computations for everything that needs to be rendered in a single frame within 16.6 milliseconds. Failure to do so will result in "jank" (also referred to as "micro-stutter", or "frame-skip").



Firstly, I suspect (again, I'm not an Android expert) that since Android is a virtualized environment (that uses the DVM, or Dalvik Virtual Machine), it struggles to perform computations fast enough in order to complete computations within the required 16.6 milliseconds. This is why smoothness on Android devices is always second rate compared to platforms that run code natively. No matter what arguments are put forward, "native" always performs better that "virtualized".


Secondly, it looks like there's something fundamentally wrong with Android's architecture when it comes to the touch paradigm (which is now standard on just about every smartphone platform). The UI should be running in it's own non-blocking thread. No network or disk/storage operations should interfere with whatever the UI is doing (including UI inputs etc). This is not the case on Android - you can see the UI stutter wherever "lazy loading" is implemented (one example: the Play Store - stutter occurs when network operation is executed).


Thirdly, Android doesn't appear to use the GPU for screen rendering throughout the platform. From what I can remember, developers can set this within an applications manifest.xml file. I have no idea why any architect would choose to use the CPU rather than the GPU for rendering operations. In any event, you can see the difference in some applications by going into the Developer Options and turning on "Force GPU rendering". and then repeating the steps for testing the Engadget app mentioned in one of my previous posts in this thread. Scrolling is much, much smoother, but janking (micro-stutters) still occur.
I been actively investigate this (I build apps) the problem is several fold, from what I found so far. VM is one bottleneck, all this people rave about java - they fail to mention, nobody in the right mind to use java for front end. It's all in the backend. Twitter recently move from Ruby on Rail to Java , but they didn't code in Java! They code in Scala and the majority of the gain come from Scala can run concurrent task, parallel computation. So I doubt java is really doing major revamp.

Now CPU / GPU. It's true you can set in config file - but this just plain stupid! iOS is managing all this thing on the system level. We don't need to care about it. And it's a well known fact Android (until 4.1 I believe) couldn't handle multi-core CPU correctly. It simple doesnt know what to do.

That's what I find so far.
post #47 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Double post yet only submitted once. Sorry.

Addendum.

But since I yam here already: kudos to Google (spit) for at least trying to set some standards for its fellow gangsters. Samsung no learny, no copy. 1biggrin.gif

 

I would just say Google was not smart enough to cheat, or I give them credit that the just following apples lead which it is no longer about bits and byte and MHz and GHz. it about the overall experience and most people could care less about the benchmark test. I think the benchmark companies are more upset than anyone else since the sanctity of what they do has some how been soiled.

 

But really, it is no different than teaching to the test you have to pass. We have an entire generation of kids coming out of schools today who have been taught it is okay to learn only what you will be tested on.

post #48 of 130

I'm probably missing something here, but if the chip will run fast, regardless of a use case or not, the test represents a raw test of processing power. How is that cheating? Someone could write an app that would run just as fast as the test runs. 

 

Sure, the test is not a real use case, but if it runs that fast, then it's why should it be dumbed or slowed down?

post #49 of 130
@Jack Baker: seems like you subscribe to the 'clash of civilizations' theory. Being from the East, I feel sorry for your worldview.

BTW, it's not Google but Motorola (and it has made just one Android product after Google acquisition) that has been lauded.

Google not only copied the iOS, changing their 'Blackberry-copy' handset to an 'iPhone-copy' one as soon as the iPhone was introduced. Mr. Schmidt, an American, who sat on Apple's Board before being kicked out, fed the progress of development of the iPhone to Google. In addition, Google has been proven guilty of tapping Wi-Fi during their street view mapping, and recently of hacking Gmail accounts?

If you want me to go further: Are you aware that numerous treaties that US made with the native Indians were reneged? The 'Trail of Tears'? The treatment of blacks before 1960s? I could go on an on. Does this make Americans treacherous, untrustworthy, and opportunistic?

Moral:
1. Cheaters can be found anywhere.
2. Ethical people/organizations can be found anywhere.
3. Americans are usually loud, assertive, boisterous, and misguided.
post #50 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst View Post

I'm probably missing something here, but if the chip will run fast, regardless of a use case or not, the test represents a raw test of processing power. How is that cheating? Someone could write an app that would run just as fast as the test runs. 

Sure, the test is not a real use case, but if it runs that fast, then it's why should it be dumbed or slowed down?

I thought the article was clear, but apparently not. It's not that the chips aren't capable of being faster it's that the benchmarks are used to compare results are dynamically adjusting the clock rate which means increasing the power threshold to maximize performance when certain tests are detected. This is artificial because the system does not run like this outside of those tests. Why not? Because it's a huge drain on the battery (and a slight chance of degrading the internal components and/or causing them to shutdown due to excess heat).
post #51 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Fandroids routinely trot around benchmark numbers to pump up their self esteem against the "sheeple" that buy iPhones.  Any time some new generic Android phone #32343 is released they are all furiously hitting F5 on their favorite websites to see the benchmark numbers that they can use to crow about.  Now that it's shown that most of the companies are cheating at these benchmarks we are hearing all these excuses about "everyone does it!!" and "no one buys on benchmarks!!", etc etc.

You forgot - they also use special versions of Android that eliminate all background tasks and limit functionality to gain a few more percent on the score.
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post #52 of 130
Originally Posted by stylorouge
Lol iPhone is ancient compared to android phones. Samsung has already in the market 8 core CPU iPhone dual core still. There's no competition sorry.

 

Go attend your phone orgies and just shut up already.

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post #53 of 130
The honest find a way to be faster through innovation. The dishonest find a way to cheat and manipulate the system. Anyone that has used a Samsung device and an Apple device instantly notices the screen lag. My experience is an S2. The first and last time I touched a Samdung device.
post #54 of 130
Oh Maaaa lordy lordy I cannot believe that some people actually cheat at cards, my my, my grand daddy will be turning in his grave bless my soul !

I feel all a quiver, I need a bumper helping of Sea Slug washed down with copious glasses of VSOP
post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Best line of the whole article.

Best line on this website, ever.
post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You forgot - they also use special versions of Android that eliminate all background tasks and limit functionality to gain a few more percent on the score.
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post #57 of 130

Who cares. No seriously, who outside the tech industry is going to care? Unfortunately, no one, and that is why the lie will work. No one at the carriers are going to say, 'yeah, but Samsung cheats on their scores, buy Apple'. 

 

I bet no class action suit for false advertisement will be brought either. 

post #58 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

1bugeye.gif

Of course you'd deny it.

http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/11/24/list-of-android-benchmarks-and-software-optimizations-results-analysis/
Quote:
You may have seen the demo that shows Linaro Android is 100% faster than Stock Android on TI Pandaboard. Finally, the massive performance improvement was due to another benchmark software (oxBench) that use vsync to render images, where a small increase in actual performance may lead to a doubling of the fps. Still the optimization work at Linaro does pay off, and they provided some other results with AOSP + Linaro Patches build on Panda 4460 measured
with 3.2 TILT stable kernel vs AOSP build with 3.2 kernel:
Antutu RAM 21 %
CaffeineMark String 24 %
Quadrant Mem 81 %
Antutu Float 10 %
0xBench Sunspider 10 %
0xBench DrawArc,DrawCircle,DrawRect >40 %
0xBench Garbage Collection 11 %
Vellamo Sunspider 14 %
Vellamo V8 Benchmark 8 %
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post #59 of 130
Denying it?? I was trying to figure out what the heck you were talking about. So you were bringing up forked OS's and custom Linux builds using Android code as the basis then. 1hmm.gif
You made it sound as tho you were claiming Google Android versions were gaming the tests. Gotcha tho I've no idea how that's pertinent to the discussion.
Edited by Gatorguy - 10/2/13 at 4:13pm
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post #60 of 130

The only "they" that should be used are those listed by AnandTech as doping their results. I haven't read anything about these companies killing or even staling other Android services in order to run these benchmarks. Since Android is open (small laugh) one can do whatever they want to optimize it which likely has implementations that are very specific like the Samsung Galaxy Gear watch (bigger laugh) which doesn't need most default Android services as part of the OS.
post #61 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSomDude View Post
 

 

Also do you guys really think buying a certain phone makes you better than other people?

 

Nope, that's left to the Fandroids.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post


Lol iPhone is ancient compared to android phones. Samsung has already in the market 8 core CPU iPhone dual core still. There's no competition sorry.

 

Since when is the ARMv8 CPU and Power Series 6 6430 GPU "ancient"? Funny that an "ancient" iPhone can match or beat the Note 3 which has twice the cores, with cores whose clock rate during normal operation is 40% higher, and has more than twice the memory,


Edited by MikeJones - 10/2/13 at 4:39pm
post #62 of 130
Does anyone using a tablet or smart phone care about benchmarks? That's a PC way of thinking what a customer wants. I remember the old Norton benchmarks... that's back when chip speeds actually made noticeable jumps. Now, the latest iMac has a 3.5Ghz processor (and I am stuck at 3.4Ghz). Oh boy.

I never pays to chase after the spec-hounds... they'll buy your gadget, then never pay another penny for software... they'll just hack away...
post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondYourFrontDoor View Post

Does anyone using a tablet or smart phone care about benchmarks?

Yep, benchmarks are typical wank material for Fandroids.

post #64 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post


Lol iPhone is ancient compared to android phones. Samsung has already in the market 8 core CPU iPhone dual core still. There's no competition sorry.

 

Samsung doesn't even have 64bit, and won't for a long time.

 

They still use a yellow daisy as an icon representing a group of photos, still stuck in Apple's yesterday since they copied that on the Galaxy S.

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post #65 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post


Lol iPhone is ancient compared to android phones. Samsung has already in the market 8 core CPU iPhone dual core still. There's no competition sorry.

 

So I guess you haven't seen (you'll like this) Anand's benchmarks of the poor little 5s dual-core chip blowing away a lot of testosterone-laden quad-cores, huh?

post #66 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post


Lol iPhone is ancient compared to android phones. Samsung has already in the market 8 core CPU iPhone dual core still. There's no competition sorry.

 

Sad thing about that is the iPhone 5s kicks that 8 core samsung phones ass in benchmarks.  And the 5s does it without doping the processor with os tweeks like GS4.

 

And by the way the exynos 8 core only uses 4 cores at a time stock.  It either uses the 4 stock a15 arm cores high power mode or the 4 stock a7 arm cores low power mode.  Samsung is using ARM's Big Little architecture to put 8 cores together.

You really need to research more before you post.


Edited by Mechanic - 10/2/13 at 5:07pm
post #67 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Yep, benchmarks are typical wank material for Fandroids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

So I guess you haven't seen (you'll like this) Anand's benchmarks of the poor little 5s dual-core chip blowing away a lot of testosterone-laden quad-cores, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

Sad thing about that is the iPhone 5s kicks that 8 core samsung phones ass inbenchmarks.  And the 5s does it without doping the processor with os tweeks like GS4.
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post #68 of 130
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post




1hmm.gif

 

:D

post #69 of 130

I love this site and I'm addicted.  It's like the Daily Mail of tech sites with its rampant frothing of the mouth at everything against Apple. 

 

Seriously though?  Why so much hate?  The iPhone is the best smartphone in the world and the iPad is the best tablet.  Are our lives so devoid of happiness we have to foam at the mouth at Android or Blackberry or Windows Phone?  At the end of the day what anyone says on here doesn't matter one iota really.  99.99% of people in the world aren't "fandroids" or "isheep" as they buy their phones or tablets on personal choice.  Saying people who buy Android phones are cheap is a sweeping statement which is entirely baseless.  Like people who buy iPhones are hipsters.  At the end of the day what we post on here is utterly meaningless as the majority of the population does what it wants.  So why so much hate?

post #70 of 130
Apple is doomed!
post #71 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

The only "they" that should be used are those listed by AnandTech as doping their results. I haven't read anything about these companies killing or even staling other Android services in order to run these benchmarks. Since Android is open (small laugh) one can do whatever they want to optimize it which likely has implementations that are very specific like the Samsung Galaxy Gear watch (bigger laugh) which doesn't need most default Android services as part of the OS.

Published Geekbench results are regularly done on hacked Android versions that have been modified specifically to run benchmarks - at the expense of actually doing anything useful.

Just another example of why Android benchmarks shouldn't be trusted.
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post #72 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by party pants View Post
 

I love this site and I'm addicted.  It's like the Daily Mail of tech sites with its rampant frothing of the mouth at everything against Apple. 

 

Seriously though?  Why so much hate?  The iPhone is the best smartphone in the world and the iPad is the best tablet.  Are our lives so devoid of happiness we have to foam at the mouth at Android or Blackberry or Windows Phone?  At the end of the day what anyone says on here doesn't matter one iota really.  99.99% of people in the world aren't "fandroids" or "isheep" as they buy their phones or tablets on personal choice.  Saying people who buy Android phones are cheap is a sweeping statement which is entirely baseless.  Like people who buy iPhones are hipsters.  At the end of the day what we post on here is utterly meaningless as the majority of the population does what it wants.  So why so much hate?

 

Maybe people don't like cheats.

 

You play the game you play fair, based on merit and some scumbag comes along and throws a spanner in the works by cheating.

 

Cheats, in any field are deserving of scorn and hate.

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post #73 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylorouge View Post

Is this an Apple blog? Lol. No problem you convinced me with your bias reports only iPhone is the best phone ever! Is it true that the new iPhone has a fake 64bit CPU manufactured by Samsung ? If Samsung is faking benchmarks so does it mean all the benchmarks for the iPhone 5S are fake too?

Try again
post #74 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Published Geekbench results are regularly done on hacked Android versions that have been modified specifically to run benchmarks - at the expense of actually doing anything useful.

Just another example of why Android benchmarks shouldn't be trusted.

Again, you're apparently referring to OS'es other than Google Android. AFAIK there's not any truncated versions of it modified to beat benchmarks. If you have an example of a specially-crafted Google Android version being used by any member of the OHA to fool benchmark tests I'd be first to admit you're right.
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post #75 of 130
Originally Posted by party pants View Post

Are our lives so devoid of happiness we have to foam at the mouth at Android or Blackberry or Windows Phone?

 

Yeah, humans tend not to be okay when lies are perpetrated unpunished.

 
At the end of the day what anyone says on here doesn't matter one iota really.

 

And that’s wrong.

 
99.99% of people in the world aren't "fandroids" or "isheep" as they buy their phones or tablets on personal choice.

 

So you’re fine with ~50% of that choice being built on a foundation of lies?

 
Saying people who buy Android phones are cheap is a sweeping statement which is entirely baseless.  Like people who buy iPhones are hipsters.

 

Well, at least that’s true.

 
At the end of the day what we post on here is utterly meaningless

 

Once again, incorrect.

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post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yeah, humans tend not to be okay when lies are perpetrated unpunished.

Huh? Did you mean perpetually?
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post #77 of 130
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Huh? Did you mean perpetually?


Nope.

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post #78 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Nope.

So again I ask, huh?
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post #79 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Published Geekbench results are regularly done on hacked Android versions that have been modified specifically to run benchmarks - at the expense of actually doing anything useful.

Just another example of why Android benchmarks shouldn't be trusted.

Those are not stock devices as sold by OEMs and tested by reputable sites like AnandTech. if you really want to disparage the performance benchmarks of an OS simply because it's posted on Geekbench then you need to discount OS X as it's commonly measured by the Hackintosh community to see how well they perform on DiY HW under ideal conditions.
post #80 of 130
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So again I ask, huh?

 

I don’t understand. They’re allowed to lie in advertising–in TESTING, even–and they aren’t punished for it.

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